OceanGate safety concerns raised years before Titanic sub incident
As early as 2018, experts commented on safety issues related to the Titan submersible. Naturally, in the aftermath of the submersible going down, those who raised concern about safety and other risks, related to the submersible, came forward. For example, the host for “Expedition Unknown,” Josh Gates, had concerns about the sub’s performance during the test dive, and decided not to go down to the Titanic itself.
From the Marine Technology Society:
This letter is sent on behalf of our industry members who have collectively expressed unanimous concern regarding the development of ‘TITAN’ and the planned Titanic Expedition. Our apprehension is that the current ‘experimental’ approach adopted by Oceangate could result in negative outcomes (from minor to catastrophic) that would have serious consequences for everyone in the industry.
The MUV industry has earned itself an enviable safety track record over the past 40 years. This is partly due to the diligent engineering discipline and professional approach exercised by members of the industry, but also due to the collective observation of (and adherence to) a variety of safety standards. This reputation is solid because it was hard won over many years of diligence application and has resulted in a safe and successful record of operation. Our members are all aware of how important and precious this standing is and deeply concerned that a single negative event could undo this.
Your marketing materials advertises that the TITAN design will meet or exceed the DNV-GL safety standards, yet it does not appear that Oceangate has the intention of following DNV-GL class rules. Your representation is, at minimum, misleading to the public and breaches an industry-wide professional code of conduct we all endeavor to uphold.
We do all agree that a performance-based testing program for design verification is recognized and valid approach to new technologies. However, we recommend that at a minimum you institute a prototype testing program that is reviewed and witnessed by DNV-GL (or ABS). While this may demand additional time and expense, it is our unanimous view that this validation process by a third-party is a critical component in the safeguards that protect all submersible occupants.
The New York Times posted the above letter. Additionally, NPR, CBS News, France 24, Forbs, The Hill, and others covers cover prior OceanGate red flags.
Category: "Teh Stoopid", Society
As of Thursday morning, nada. One has to suspect the worst.
Probably in a thousand pieces right now
Now they’re saying SOSUS network picked up the sub imploding on the way down Sunday. The @SubBrief guy has some good stuff on the construction, and possible problems from a bubblehead’s perspective. No way in hell you’d get me in a virtually untested “experimental” design to go 2 miles down.
Fair Winds and Follows Seas for the crew & passengers on Titan.
Mythbusters did a show on implosion:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mythbusters-video-shows-deep-sea-224356331.html
On the home page a few minutes ago, I was reading about tales from a few customers who went down on the titan submersable about losing power, communications and another which I can’t remember. One person declined while the recovery operation is going on respecting the families of those onboard.
The published O2 reserve has expired- this is now a very expensive recovery effort.
Fair winds and following seas.
Josh Gate followed his gut feelings.
TV Host Explains Why He Scrapped Plans to Take OceanGate Sub to Titanic (today.com)
We need a bubblehead’s opinion. This was a tragedy waiting to happen, right?
At least they had diverse hiring practices that excluded 50 year-old former CO’s and COB’s from the company.
I’m not dog piling on the corpses, but it was avoidable.
Spot on, HT3. Ya nailed it. Imma wid you, all the way. Sympathies to the families of the ones that are probably lost. The dood that thought this was a good plan…not so much.
When you value diversity over knowledge and experience, you get catastrophic results. See also “The Biden Administration”.
The scary thing is he’s probably going to win a second term thanks to trump
HT3, see the youtube video I just posted done by a former submariner.
There are two things to consider;
The Submarine
How well was it tested; did they do any other testing to the pressure hull to determine if it would handle the depth it was supposed to reach.
Could they have lowered the sub with chains to depth with sensors installed or is there a pressure chamber big enough that could simulate the depth.
The problems systems that Gates complained about, were they fix and were there any backup system installed.
A big worry for me would be a Main Electrical Bus failure. Was there a backup to release the balast in case of the loss of all electrical.
The Crew
Did they have at least two onboard that knew how to operate and stir the craft and trained to handle any emergency such as a fire or electrical failure.
There are no short cuts when it comes to training. I had my board and there were no lookups. I then wore my Dolphins proudly and I now have a license plate to show them off.
With all the testing and training there could have been an event that caused an issue or a complete failure on the sub.
As I write this they have found a debris field.
If this is true I offer my condolences to the families of those who were lost.
The sub had only been tested to 4200 feet. The Titanic is at 12,500 feet.
The entire sub community/body said the TITAN was a Harbor Freight POS. They had been saying this since 2019 apparently.
It was controlled by a “video game” controller. Had no GPS. Comms were via text message.
The hull was 5″ carbon fiber. Ignoring more than a century of diving technology.
The good news is that Josh Gates said, nope. I like the guy and enjoy Expedition Unknown. He’s the everyman of archeology and we get to live vicariously thru him.
Just sayin’:
Bottom line, this is why the Navy has had a SUBSAFE program for 60 years.
From what I’ve seen, you’d never get me anywhere near that POS.
I might have to jump in at some point when I have more time, but yeah. And the people who raised concerns were getting fired over it.
Pride goeth before the fall and all that.
“D’oh!” –Homer Simpson
And we can close the book on it.
https://www.news10.com/news/national/rescuers-make-last-desperate-push-as-final-hours-of-oxygen-on-missing-titanic-submersible-tick-down/
The U.S. Coast Guard says debris field has been found near the Titanic during search for submersible
A debris field found near a debris field. Good luck sorting that out.
This thing was destined to kill someone, eventually.
Almost as good as hearing undersea sounds. Happened every time one of my sonobuoys hit the water.
My inner systems test engineer is horrified at this, thing.
When you weren’t keeping the front-seaters well provisioned?
Heh. Actually the division of labor was the Ordie and Flight Tech cooked and served, and we tactical types cleaned the galley on the return leg.
The Glamour of Naval Aviation.
I worked with a guy that was an NFO with VP-62 out Jax for 20 something years after AD with a squadron in Maine. He said it felt like they dropped a million sonobuoys over the years.
There’s an area near the Straights of Gibraltar we called Magnavox Mountain.
Ha!
Hey, you’ll take what we give you and LIKE IT!
…
My water pressure calculator says that the water pressure at 10K under is 630,650lbs/ sqft, about where it went missing. Figure 31.5 tons on your chest instantly. Flatten the lungs out like a pancake. Brutal but quick.
Is this where the sub lost communication or at the bottom beside the Titanic (12,500 ft)? They said that the Titan sub lost comms during decent but was only a partial way into the full decent. Forgot the number, but I think it was at the 2,000 ft threshold, less than 2 hours into the descent. i.e. they were still in the “twilight” zone of decent.
I don’t believe the submersible had any means of contact once they submerged. Water is very unforgiving to radio waves, even with ELF.
I read they used text messaging. I don’t know how that works underwater.
Seems ludicrous.
Very Harbor Freightish.
Even a text message needs some kind of transmission medium, be it radio, wire, or fiber optics. A cell phone is really just a full-duplex walkie-talkie.
Submarines use ELF, extremely low frequency radio to communicate while submerged. Apparently, that was used via text messages to communicate with the launch vessel.
Yes, indeed:
Hell, 1 ticket please.
No uppsy doodle due to poor taste, But truth nonetheless.
Ironic, isn’t it? A group of wealthy people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to take a submersible down to visit the grave of hundreds of wealthy people (as well as hundreds more middle and stowage class) and join those victims in the mass graveyard that is the Atlantic Ocean.
The Titanic was “unsinkable” and on its maiden voyage, being one of the largest passenger ships of its era and part of a large fleet owned by “old white men”. The Oceangate was “inspirational”, being a one-off and unproven vessel owned by white men in their 50s and 60s who wanted to avoid hiring “50-year-old white men” in favor of younger and far less experienced employees.
I hope that they died instantly and painlessly, but otherwise it was a fool’s errand for a foolish concept. I’ll stick to the surface and watch footage of the wreckage…or watch the film and Kate Winslet’s portrait scene a few more times.
Ahhh, the film –
Cause of Death; Misadventure.
Woke engineering at its best
Good recap by a bubblehead.
BBC is say the debris is of Titan
If this is true, looks like it imploded. There is no good way to go, but this is the “best”. They wouldn’t have even known it happened.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12223805/Debris-field-discovered-search-area-near-Titanic.html
Once I realized I was in “Elysium”, I would have been plenty pissed at this Rush guy.
RIP.
Sad.
“Titanic sub missing – LIVE: Expert claims debris found is ‘landing frame and rear cover of submersible’”
Nose cone was found. Pressure hull found.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/titanic-sub-missing-live-latest-updates-debris-field-expert-landing-frame-rear-cover-171806194.html
Have Coast Guard 3PM press conference on NewsMax now
We are also watching, Jeff. Thank You!
Titan was found 1600 feet from the Titanic.
As others stated, implosion.
So Sad.
Prayers for the families.
Both ends of the chamber. Admiral is indicating that due to the conditions of the debris field and what that indicates, with the ‘inhospitable nature of the environment’, recovery is not likely…
I just hope it was unexpected and rapid.
Prayers for the friends and families of these poor souls.
Thank You, Roh-Dog.
Yes, implosion so different from explosion.
We agree with you. We hope it was unexpected and rapid.
Some sources state it occurred 1 hour and 45 minutes after the Titan was submerged, this explaining the loss of communication during the same time frame.
Prayers for the families and friends.
So Sad.
“What is a catastrophic implosion? How did this happen to the Titan? What’s the difference with an explosion?”
https://en.as.com/latest_news/what-is-an-implosion-why-does-it-happen-whats-the-difference-with-an-explosion-n/
Sounds as if the seafloor will be the final resting place of the 5 individuals.
Rest In Peace.
I can’t recall any previous instances where 3 billionaires were killed at once. Not even during 9/11.
Will this be an addition to the existing Titanic conspiracy theory, or should we start a new one?
Should you require expert consultation… 😉
I have you on speed dial, Poe.
*grin*
I wonder they loaded the Epstein files on board for ballast before setting sail? That at would at least help it make sense.
Stowed right next to Hillary’s email servers.
This is what happens you subcontract to All Point Logistics. The memories will last a lifetime.
Did they ever update the Bernath safety manual on how to calculate fuel reserves? That might have been a thing.
Via Wiki:
So the pressure cylinder was carbon fiber?
A material that eventually delaminates over time and with repeated stress, that cannot be tested by nondestructive means?
Brilliant.
Also the bell ends caps where held on by bolting into the main body, one being the hatch that is torqued to some sort of spec…
How the fuck did they know if the stud was causing fractures in the cylinder material or not?
Not a big fan of victim blaming… but holy shit!
So they climbed inside of a small can lying on its side. No seats. They climbed inside through the only opening😑. That opening was closed by bolting on the forward hatch/viewport with 17 large bolts. There was no way to get out unless they were able to be brought above the surface (not floating on the surface), and someone with a large wrench was able to unscrew those 17 bolts. What a recipe for disaster.
The front hatch/viewport was acrylic, clear plastic. The dome on the front was titanium. The main cylinder was carbon fiber 5 inches thick.
My guess: The titanium and the carbon fiber compressed at different rates, leading to a rupture at the seam.
Composite submersibles: Under pressure in deep, deep waters | CompositesWorld
Yep, see above: cyclic fatigue. Carbon fiber is unforgiving when used in critical components. Looking at you, Airbus!
Ol’ Poe’s thinkin’ that some old fifties white guy with a few decades of experience just might have pointed out the likelihood of that happening to management… 🙄
The titanium stuff came through okay, but not the composite sh*t…
“Looking at you, Airbus!” Also the carbon fiber Boeing 787.
Just read on reddit that Insider reported that submersible owner boasted he got a good deal on carbon fiber from Boeing because it was past it’s useful (aviation) life.
From the article Charles linked:
Bold added for emphasis and to highlight the stupidity of this craft.
Even if you could shape a vessel that large, with 99.9% homogeneity and integrity in construction, nothing short of luck would insure its viability even on use number 1!
From what I have heard in the past that when Submarines suffer an implosian, the water pressure comes in so fast that the heat kills before the water touches you. Almost like Adibiatic commpression when those old pinto cars were rear ended and the force created a high amount of heat that ignited the gasoline. I used to bring that up when as a Volly Firefighter company training officer.
1.5 hours in to a 7 hour journey, 12,000 feet from surface to target, lets presume they were just half way down…
Even at 800 feet with larger volume compartments, the pressure wave is faster than a nervous system can register, and yeah, the air burns.
Everyone is instant spaghetti sauce.
We don’t know where they were when it happened. Only when they lost coms.
The debris field is only 1600 feet from the bow and not scattered across a large area, according to the reports I heard.
No time to even feel a pinch of pain, just turned into crab food.
Angle hair?
The implosion was likely very close to their targeted arrival spot near the bow of Titanic. So, the implosion would have killed them before their brains could register they were dead.
If it were a 600,000+ pounds per square foot it really isn’t going to matter. My calculator says that is roughly equal to 2.872816e+7N/m2 Newtons. It would be like sitting under the space shuttle as it launched.
BTW, they haven’t even found the hull yet. Just the end caps.
It’s essentially the same as the combustion chamber in a diesel engine.
According to a former employee, the hull failure warning system would only alert the pilot of imminent hull failure a few seconds before failure and implosion at the depth of the Titanic.
Nailed it… James Cameron said same:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/06/23/submersible-design-flaw-james-cameron-sot-ac360-hnk-vpx.cnn
So the CEO didn’t want to depend on 50 year old white guys and thought safety was overrated. Oh fuckin well.
Ya get what ya pay for.
He figured that out — right before getting crushed to the size of a sewing thimble.
From Mt. Everest and the other tall peaks,
to flying in balloons and light aircraft
around the Earth and over the Pacific,
and now scouring the deep depths of the oceans…
I wonder…
When gazillionaires spend big to chase their highs and lows,
all for the excitement, the adventure, the rush, the danger,
and then end up as damsels in distress…..
How much are the rest of us really obligated,
to spend millions (more),
largely from US and international tax dollars,
to rescue the danger seeking damsels??
Can OceanGate be billed?
So, the Paki billionaire paid Ocean Gate $500K to die near Titanic. Now that is what I call a dedicated fan on that unsinkable ship.
I’m seeing a lot of comments (other places) from the “tolerant side” saying that they deserved to die for spending so much money on that ride when there are poor and hungry people that could have used the money wasted. Makes me wonder, how many of these rich people were philanthropists and now poor people are actually missing out.
My thing is, it was their money. Trickle down means the money didn’t stop in one place. Things and services had to be purchased to keep the company going. I doubt any of them wanted to die and I especially doubt that father would have purposely caused his sons death.
The loss of death is sad. Rich or not. Bad decisions or not. I’ve been lucky so far- all my choices haven’t always been the best.
Knowing what I do about that thing, how it was designed and built, I wouldn’t have gotten on that to take a trip to the bottom of a kiddie pool.
As a team building exercise, the Vice President of the proud but humble woman owned business that sells software to the federal government formerly located on Wilson Lane in Bethesda Maryland has chartered a submersible for all employees to visit the wreckage of The Titanic. Don’t worry, we are using a reputable company. The Stunning Agency has equipped each of their vehicles with extra baking soda and vinegar, and has a Flaming Squirrel ready to be launched to notify the Coast Guard the moment trouble is detected.
Word on the street is that Oceangate is changing its focus on high-dollar adventures and abandoning future deep-sea trips and shifting to offering trips to the International Space Station.
The recent college graduate engineers are now experimenting with lashing lawn chairs together and will use Mylar filled balloons to provide lift. Hand-held fans will be used for propulsion, and each seat will have its own seatbelt.
Breathable air will be provided by giving each passenger their very own portable oxygen concentrator.
How many Safety Briefs did 1st Sergeants give this past Friday advising troops not to partake in expeditions to the Titanic wreckage?
Mom contradicts Aunt.
[The mother of the 19-year-old who died on the imploded Titanic submersible says she was supposed to go on the dive,
but gave her son her spot because he ‘really wanted to go’]
https://www.insider.com/titanic-submersible-shazahda-dawood-suleman-christine-stepped-back-rubiks-cube-2023-6
If I were a billionaire and so inclined I would pay James Cameron to send ROV’s down to film in VR. Then have a VR pool room built in my mansion.
My mansion that sits in my own country where I spend all of my time not caring about other people’s BS.
I bet Cameron would probably do the filming for less than $250k.
It would be an excuse to buy the new Apple AR Glasses that just dropped for $3600 each.
Read this earlier: Submersible Expert Told OceanGate CEO Hull Defect Would Only Get Worse (insider.com)
I like the play on words that proved sadly prophetic: “succumbing to pressures of your own creation”.
The more info that comes out, the more we realize how egotistical and narcissistic Stockton Rush was.
Rush didn’t want his company represented by “50-year-old white guys” despite being a 61-year-old white guy himself. He’s now older than any of us posting here… To quote Catch-22, “Well, he died. You don’t get any older than that.”
The ex-Motor Sergeant in me wonders just how often did they do ANY KIND of inspections on hull integrity for that thing? Engineers will tell you that material such as what that hull was made of will weaken over time when subjected to stresses like what it was put through repeatedly.