Potential changes to Arlington National Cemetery burial eligibility could disqualify most
The Army has recommended changes to the burial eligibility for Arlington National Cemetery. According to Mark Belinsky, the proposed changes would remove eligibility for the majority of those who are currently eligible. However, this would involve inground burial. The space at Arlington National Cemetery is limited, so the Army is looking for ways to extend Arlington’s ability to provide inground burials.
From NBC 4 Washington:
“The majority of those who are currently eligible would no longer be eligible,” said retired Lt. Col. Mark Belinsky with the Military Officers Association of America.
Belinsky told the I-Team he continues to hear from worried veterans wondering if they need to make other plans.
“So, the potential changes really would reduce in-ground burial to a threshold of all the way down to Silver Star and above and Purple Heart,” he said. “So, a very small population compared to what is eligible today.”
A spokesperson for the Army told the I-Team there was no expected timeline of when new eligibility would be announced. An Arlington spokesperson said the proposed changes are still currently undergoing the “federal rulemaking process.”
However, there is movement on another front.
“We always knew that there was a finite amount of space here at Arlington Cemetery,” said Col. Thomas Austin, the director of engineering at Arlington National Cemetery.
He’s overseeing the Southern Expansion project underway right now which will extend the life of the cemetery.
“We’re adding a total of 50 acres to the cemetery, which will yield about 80,000 new burial opportunities,” he explained.
With current burial standards that would keep this cemetery, which means so much to veterans, open for burials until the early 2060s.
“Well, there is only one Arlington National Cemetery. It is a shrine. It’s an icon for the nation. It’s some of the most sacred ground we have in United States,” Austin said.
The expansion project is expected to be completed by the end of 2027.
Belinsky said changing who’s allowed to be buried there could impact the military at a time when there’s already a recruitment challenge.
“Inevitably will have to move to a new location, and our proposal is to rather than reduce the benefit, but let’s slowly transition to the next location without reducing the benefit,” he said.
That’s why he supports another solution: identifying the next Arlington National Cemetery.
“What’s encouraging is senior leaders are looking at other options to include transforming an existing VA run national cemetery into the next location that will afford full military honors,” Belinsky said.
NBC 4 Washington has the story here.
Category: Arlington National Cemetary
Will Ensign Hunter Biden, US Naval Reserve still qualify? He would like a plot on a hill overlooking the Gentleman’s Clubs in Georgetown.
I don’t believe that one drill-weekend qualifies a person to be a veteran. Doubtful that the big guy will be around to get him the waivers needed this time.
Miracles are possible with waivers, as he’s already shown.
They will allow cremation and stuff Hunter’s ashes in a nice crack pipe made of crystal for the mantle or a wall hanging.
I’m in favor, but only if immediate and pre-mortem.
Hunter will be cremated and flushed down the ladies room toilet at The Gold Club.
Is there a way to have your ashes mixed with cocaine and made into a stripper pole?
Anything is possible if you have enough J.B. Weld. 😆
How about you incentivize families to use state Veteran Cemeteries? If free is free is free, pony up cash to ‘keep it local’?
When I slip the binds of this life, I sure as f k don’t want my kin going anydamnwhere near that festering wound known as the District of Criminals to visit my bones, regardless of how reverent I am to the friends and loved ones tombed thereabouts.
Already happening, my Infuntree Brother. The Confederate Monument, and the soldiers around it, are on the Re-naming Committee’s List of All Things Confederate Must Go. A linky to a ewetube vid is below.
Here’s a coupla novel ideas. Remove all of the Kongress Klown Kritters that never served and other grubermint ne’er do wells. Knock down some of the Belt Way Bandits Office Complexes and open up some more space. People forget, the only reason that Mary Custis Lee’s Home became a Cemetery in the FIRST (ht2 Tox) Place was so she would never want to live there again.
Oh, I noes. The one that hurt me deep just recent is A.P. Hill. Much service to the country before the War of Northern Aggression, personally detested the institution of slavery, sickly stayed engaged on the field for he did love his brothers so.
Is it me or does COL-in-name-only Seidule look like he’s got a closet full of neoprene dog masks?
“A country irreverent of its past has a ruddy future, where it must once again learn the lessons of greater men” –Some guy on the internet
KoB:
Yep…
Yep…
Yep….
abn/hbtd/rtr
Well my parents were carpetbaggers and are buried in a National cemetery located between two Marine Corps instalatin in the secesh capitol of South Carolina. They are buried side by side as my mother earned her veteran status in the Navy during the forgotten war in Korea. Her older sister is buried at the Quantico National Cemetery based on her service as an Army nurse at a MASH unit in Korea.
My father was actually born at Walter Reed Army Hospital in DC and had no desire to be buried in Arlington.
I just got off the phone with my older sister, she had spent five hours today placing wreaths at our hometown National cemetery. Wreaths Across America placed about 26,000 wreaths there today. She managed to place the ones on my parents graves.
My wife and I did the same with the local WAA event. We placed 4 wreaths, 3 Soldiers and 1 Sailor.
“Army To Start Rotating Arlington Horses To Bigger Pasture Following Deaths”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/12/15/army-start-rotating-arlington-horses-bigger-pasture-following-deaths.html
“The Army will start rotating about a dozen horses to a larger plot of land following four deaths in nine months for the military working animals that carry fallen service members at Arlington National Cemetery.”
“The move — a partnership with the Bureau of Land Management that will allow the Army to rotate one-fifth of the nearly 60-horse herd to a 14-acre BLM-managed facility in Virginia over the next five years — comes on the heels of the deaths and subsequent criticism over how the unit treats the animals.”
“Part of that criticism has centered around how much space the unit has allotted to the herd at Forts Myer and Belvoir, facilities that currently offer less than 20% of the area that equine experts recommend.”
*Continue*
*Continue*
“That criticism has found a voice in Congress as provisions to improve the horses’ conditions were included in the National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA.”
“The partnership is temporary as the unit works to find more permanent solutions to the horses’ conditions, according to the press release.”
“We appreciate the willingness of the Bureau of Land Management to assist in the provision of rotational rest pasturing for our equine teammates as we work toward a long-term solution that allows more appropriate recuperation facilities when our horses are not on duty,” Egon F. Hawrylak, deputy commander of the Joint Task Force-National Capital Region/U.S. Army Military District of Washington said.”
“The request for the additional room was last updated in August, after two horses in the unit had perished but before two more died in late fall. The press release said that the unit “is preparing the site for the arrival of its horses early next year.”
*Continue*
*Continue*
“The partnership entails rotating a dozen horses to the Meadowood Special Recreation Management Area in Lorton,
Virginia — a public land pasture and stable facility nestled at the head of a stubby peninsula on the Potomac River about 30 minutes from Fort Myer, where the Caisson Platoon is headquartered.”
“A project description listed on the BLM’s website says that the unit proposed to “temporarily house 8 to 12 Caisson Platoon horses weekly for 3 to 5 years,” at the facility.”
“The description says that the plan is intended to “allow the Caisson Platoon horses to get some rest before going back on funeral duty at Arlington National Cemetery.”
Army veterinarians identified in February that — between Forts Myer and Belvoir — the horses were living in 18.8% of the space that the American Association of Equine Practitioners recommends.”
*Continue*
*Continue*
“Even with the added 14 acres, the herd is still short of the “generally required” 1-2 acres per horse the association says a group that size would need.”
“Military.com sent the Military District of Washington follow-up questions Thursday afternoon asking whether Caisson soldiers will still care for the horses when they are on the BLM-managed land and if the space is adequate for the herd size as they take their rest at the facility.”
“The unit was unable to answer those specific questions by deadline, but did respond to questions about the intended duration of the rotation plan.”
*Continue*
*Continue*
“The BLM and Army are continuing to work together and exploring all options for a longer-term arrangement to house and pasture the Caisson horses at Meadowood beyond the right-of-way’s timeframe but not in perpetuity,” a spokesperson for the Military District of Washington told Military.com, referring to a BLM program that allows outside entities to use its public land.”
“This partnership fulfills the U.S. Army’s need to provide short-term care for the Caisson horses while ensuring Meadowood’s natural resources, cultural resources and existing public access to recreation remains intact,” the spokesperson said, adding that the “safety and well-being of the Caisson horses are our top priorities.”
“Provisions to further improve the conditions of the herd have been included in the defense policy bill that is expected to be passed by the Senate.”
*Continue*
*Continue*
“Part of the NDAA provisions include expanding the space the horses had to live in and “immediate remedies for the unsanitary and unsafe conditions” at the facilities. The bill also specifies that the Army needs to find “adequate space at Fort Myer, Virginia, to properly care for the horses,” and prioritize space at the base not otherwise used.”
“The Army’s deadline to submit the improvement plan to Congress would be March 1, 2023.”
“BLM Eastern States State Director Mitchell Leverette said in the press release that the organization is “happy to help the Army provide high-quality pasture for the Caisson horses to rest and recover while not on duty at Arlington National Cemetery.”
Well, there is something I hadn’t noticed in that photo. The NCOIC’s horse is wearing a fly mask. I have to wonder why, since the team horses aren’t wearing them.
I had training to be a wheel horse driver for our Civil War Union horse artillery company. There is quite a bit more to it than merely riding a horse. In addition to your horse, you have the reins of a riderless horse to control the horse to your right.
rgr769:
Thank You for sharing this with us…!
👍👍👍
In my Confederate cavalry company, we performed a scenario at a reenactment where we rode down and shot the crew of one of our Union horse artillery crews. After capturing the gun, limber and team we drove it back near our lines, unlimbered the gun, loaded and fired it back at them damn Yankees. The crowd loved it. Then, unfortunately, the Union cavalry attacked us and recaptured the gun.
“Belinsky said changing who’s allowed to be buried there could impact the military at a time when there’s already a recruitment challenge.”
Sure. Because new recruits join the military to get an spot at a cemetery. That’s the first question they ask when they talk to their recruiter.
Belinsky said that because he is an idiot. It is akin to the thinking that you are a hero if you get a purple heart or are captured by the enemy, when the reality is that you really don’t want either experience, unless you are mentally ill. Of course, there is Bergdahl, who volunteered himself to be a Taliban POW.
Yeah fuck that getting captured shit. I have never heard of anyone having a good experience with that ever.
You definitely didn’t want to get captured by the enemy in Vietnam if you were on a tactical or strategic recon team. None of them who were captured were ever released or recovered. The commies always executed them. There is proof that numerous MACVSOG personnel were captured but never heard of again. There was also a bounty on us as “the men with painted faces.”
“Arlington National Cemetery Faces Directive To Remove Killer’s Remains”
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2022-06-28/arlington-cemetery-killer-navy-officer-6484874.html
“Arlington National Cemetery would be required to disinter the remains of a former Navy officer who murdered a junior sailor decades ago under a proposed amendment to the annual defense budget bill.”
“Rep. Jackie Speier, D-Calif., submitted the measure last week during the House Armed Services Committee’s markup of the proposed legislation. No one on the panel objected.”
“Speier’s amendment directs the Army and Department of Veterans Affairs to remove Andrew J. Chabrol’s remains from the nation’s largest military cemetery no later than Sept. 30, 2023. They would be given to his relatives or, if none can be found, disposed of “as the Secretary of the Army deems appropriate,” the proposal says.”
*Continue*
*Continue*
“Her amendment also would empower the Army and VA to review other cases in which veterans who committed capital crimes were buried in national cemeteries, dating to Jan. 1, 1990. Current law allows for such reviews in cases dating only to December 2013.”
“A spokesman for Arlington National Cemetery said officials there do not comment on pending legislation.”
“As The Washington Post reported in May, Chabrol’s disinterment has been the objective of a veteran-led movement for several years.”
“In 1993, he was executed in Virginia for the murder of Petty Officer 2nd Class Melissa Harrington, a 27-year-old enlisted sailor within his Virginia Beach Navy unit who had reported him to her command for stalking and harassment. Court testimony revealed that Chabrol, despite not facing meaningful consequences from the Navy, had plotted revenge, keeping a journal detailing for months what he called “Operation Nemesis.”
*Continue*
“Harrington was taken from her home July 9, 1991. She was raped and tortured before Chabrol, in his words, “went berserk” and strangled her.”
“Judi Farmer, a Navy veteran, discovered Harrington’s story in 2018 and was shocked to learn that Chabrol had been permitted an honorable final resting place at Arlington. She began an online petition and wrote the first of two letters to the Army-run cemetery asking for his removal. Earlier this year, an Arlington official responded, saying the Army did not have the legal authority to disinter Chabrol.”
“Unsatisfied, Farmer went public with the story and was joined by Harrington’s widower, Joe Harrington, and other Navy veterans who served with her.”
“Farmer said she was “cautiously optimistic” that the measure would be included in the final version of the defense bill, which must still complete the conference process between the House and Senate. Then, she said, Harrington will have a measure of long-denied justice.”
*Continue*
“Then her friends that mourn her, and husband that mourns her, can know that [Chabrol] won’t get a flag every Memorial Day, he won’t get a wreath on Christmas. He won’t be honored,” she said, referring to the cemetery’s tradition of decorating ahead of those holidays.”
“In an interview, Speier said she had seen the story and felt compelled to take action.”
“It was appalling to me to think that an officer in the Navy could sexually harass, then kidnap, then rape, and then murder a sailor and get buried at a national cemetery, which is supposed to honor our war heroes and our dead,” she said. “So he has no place in that cemetery.”
“She’d opted to confine her legislation to a three-decade period, she said, because she didn’t believe record-keeping was comprehensive enough to review all interments since Arlington’s establishment in 1864.”
*Continue*
“Joe Harrington said that he had trouble sleeping for several weeks after reliving the horror of his wife’s murder but that he felt telling her story and pushing for change could bring closure and potentially help other service members in vulnerable situations.”
“The Navy failed a good sailor years ago,” he said of his late wife. “And maybe it’ll help some good sailor in the future, that they won’t go through this.”
Oh! Now do Ted Kennedy!!!
Not a good drunk driver but boy could he drunk swim!
You nailed it, Roh-Dog!!!!
👍👍👍👍
Less than two years from commission of his capital crimes to execution. That has to be a modern record. Of course, he wanted to meet his fate with Ol’ Sparky, and refused to contest his sentence.
I wondered how this clown got buried in Arlington National Cemetery – then I remembered the Comrade General Secretary Bubba Clinton was Commander-in-Chief at the time.
Well, Swimmer Ted was briefly in the Army after getting booted from college (Harvard?) for plagiarism. I seem to remember that his service, such as it was, was discussed on this forum a long time ago. It was unimpressive, as was everything about that otherwise unremarkable bloviator. Also, Ted croaked when Obama was the preezy, so we can’t blame Hillary’s husband for him being buried in Arlington. Bubba had a controversy involving either a campaign contributor or low-ranking appointed official being buried in Arlington with no military service, just Merchant Marine time. They ended up disinterring his ass. Honestly, they should disinter Ted’s drunk ass and bury his rotted corpse under “Cheers.” It’s appropriate seeing as he was a lush and the bar used for the exterior shots of the show is in Baaaaston. Cliff Clavin can piss on him for all eternity. Fuck all of the Kennedy’s.
If Drunkennedy IS ever disinterred, he should definitely NOT be considered for cremation. The conflagration resulting from all that alcohol-soaked blubber would make the Springfield Tire Fire look like a camp fire.
According to Wikipedia, Ted served 21 months on active duty. After MP school, his daddy had him sent to the honor guard of Shape HQ in Europe, so he wouldn’t have to serve in the Korean War.
He was expelled from Harvard for cheating on exams. He was readmitted after his service in Europe.
I kinda knew the broad strokes and really didn’t want to take time out of my day to get the particulars about that fat, lying fuck. I hope the day comes when the Kennedy’s disappear from public life or maybe off the planet. Useless bunch of degenerates with not a good one among them.
RFK Jr has been doing some damn fine work on critiquing the medical industrial complex as of late.
In this environment of shifting political sands I’m willing to stand with a principled person so as to fight the little skirmishes over the trivial later on much firmer ground.
All the standard provisos apply: imho, fwiw, ssdd, etc
Naaah. He’s been catastrophically wrong and hypocritical on the climate change shit so I’ll never give him the benefit of the doubt. He can kick rocks.
Understood and that’s fair.
‘Disagreement without being disagreeable’ updoot.
I can see how restricting entry makes some form of sense, but think the FIRST to be disqualified would be politicians. Hard to think that a Bronze Star combat vet, in for the entire duration of WWII would be excluded because he didn’t have a Purple Heart.
“At Arlington National Cemetery, A Convicted Killer Rests Among Heroes.
Before the interment of Lt. Andrew Chabrol, He Was Executed For The Abduction, Rape And Murder Of Petty Officer 2nd Class Melissa Harrington. Now A Fellow Navy Veteran Fights For His Remains To Be Removed.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/05/27/arlington-national-cemetery-andrew-chabrol/
“Every year ahead of Memorial Day, a soldier from the Army’s 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment places a small American flag by the vault of Navy Lt. Andrew J. Chabrol, an honor accorded to every grave at Arlington National Cemetery.”
“Before the interment of Chabrol’s ashes at the nation’s most hallowed military burial ground, he was executed by the commonwealth of Virginia for the 1991 abduction, rape and murder of Petty Officer 2nd Class Melissa Harrington, an enlisted sailor who’d reported him for stalking and harassment.
*Continue*
“For those who remember Chabrol’s crimes, the knowledge of his dignified resting place is an open wound — an insult to her memory.”
“Farmer, herself a Navy veteran, is determined to see the remains removed from Arlington, an act she believes will close a grim and shameful chapter of military history. “Back in the early ’90s, there was hardly any justice” for victims of sexual assault, she said. “All of the things that should have been done to give her justice when she was living didn’t even occur.”
“Though Arlington officials have said they lack legal authority to remove Chabrol, Farmer and others are unsatisfied with that answer. She hopes the military’s most senior leaders — or even the commander in chief — will be compelled to intervene. And in support of those efforts, Navy veterans who knew Harrington are sharing her story for the first time in more than 30 years.”
*Continue*
“Harrington was 27 years old when her lifeless body was discovered rolled up in a rug inside Chabrol’s Virginia Beach home. According to news reports from the time and subsequent historical accounts, the 34-year-old harbored a
grudge against Harrington for having complained to superiors about his intimidating and unwelcome behavior.”
“Despite the accusation, Navy leaders
allowed Chabrol to leave military service without facing any serious professional consequences. He immediately got to work plotting what was described in journal entries as “Operation Nemesis,” according to trial testimony, and on July 9, 1991, he brought Harrington to his home and tied her to a bed. She managed to free one of her hands and, in a final, desperate bid for survival, clobbered Chabrol as hard as she could. He “went berserk” and strangled her.”
*Continue*
“While Arlington National Cemetery is running out of space, and eligibility for burial is limited largely to military retirees, recipients of certain awards and those killed while conducting duties,
most veterans with at least a day of service and an honorable discharge can have their ashes inurned at the cemetery.”
“Historically, efforts to restrict eligibility for an Arlington burial have been narrowly drawn. A law barring veterans who committed federal capital crimes from being interred there wasn’t passed until 1997, following the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing perpetrated by Army veteran Timothy McVeigh. The 2013 review law, known as the Alicia Dawn Koehl Respect for National Cemeteries Act, was passed with a specific provision allowing for the exhumation of Michael L. Anderson, a veteran who had been accused of killing Koehl in 2012 but not convicted before his burial in Michigan’s Fort Custer National Cemetery.”
*Continue*
“A spokesman for Arlington National Cemetery, John David Harlow, affirmed that the Army lacked the authority to disinter the remains of those buried there before the law’s passage, saying only close relatives of the deceased may make such a request. It’s unknown, he added, if any of the other 250,000 individuals interred in Arlington before December 2013 also committed capital crimes.”
“Robert Taber, Chabrol’s brother-in-law and one of his last surviving family members, said in an interview that he had no plans to seek disinterment. “I like where he’s at, myself,” Taber said, “and I don’t want to change anything. Because he earned that with his service in the military.”
*Continue*
” In “Crossing the River Styx,” co-written by Todd C. Peppers, death-row chaplain Russ Ford calls Chabrol “fundamentally evil and beyond redemption.” He describes observing Chabrol beam with pride and satisfaction when he received word from the Navy, shortly before his 1993 execution, that he would be buried in Arlington.”
“The national honor elated the demoniac,” Ford wrote. “This monster would rest among heroes.”
“Joe Harrington said he was stunned to learn where Chabrol was buried. “A good friend of mine, who was also my division officer years ago, was over in Vietnam and got shot,” said Harrington, now 63. “He was a hero. He was a warrior. And he’s in Arlington, and it just pisses me off that Chabrol could be there.”
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/64711110/andrew-jsm-chabrol
Weird, he wasn’t an LT when he was executed so wonder why that is on there?
5JC:
He was a Navy LT before he got out. Am guessing Arlington used his last rank as with others.
“Virginia Executes Former Navy Lt. Who Murdered Enlisted Woman”
https://apnews.com/article/0be8c3aaed4e8a94f3ef09f208db5b34
“A former Navy lieutenant who murdered an enlisted woman because she complained about his advances was executed Thursday after refusing to fight his death sentence.”
“Andrew J. Chabrol, 36, was pronounced dead in Virginia’s electric chair at 11:07 p.m., said Wayne Brown, operations officer at the Greensville Correctional Center.”
“Chabrol was convicted of the July 1991 rape and murder of Melissa Harrington in his Chesapeake home.”
“Chabrol tried to develop a romantic relationship with Mrs. Harrington while she was in his command. But she rejected his advances and complained to his superior.”
“Chabrol said her complaint damaged his career and ruined his marriage. He left the Navy in January 1991 and began planning revenge.”
They should’ve cremated him, then announced that on the date of the funeral “We begin flushing at 0900.”
Guess some families or Veterans do not believe in cremation and using the Columbarium Inurnment?
Isn’t the issue Inground Burial as thebesig noted? The Columbarium has spaces, correct?
As Roh-Dog pointed out, there ARE other VA cemeteries that can be used.
Common sense dictates land would eventually dry up at Arlington to bury Veterans. Perhaps Spouses can be laid to rest in the same plot as the Veteran instead of given a separate plot?
BTW…Anyone remember this posting about a Phony Vietnam POW who was buried at Arlington?
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=39748
After 3 years with even a REAL Vietnam POW getting involved, Arlington finally corrected the mistake.
https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=67528
Gary Wayne Gilbert literally went to his grave with his lies of being a Viet Of The Nam POW. Check out the before and after picture of his headstone.
IMHO, he should have been dugged up and his remains returned to his family. It is obvious he changed his DD214 and Military records.
Previous research indicated he worked in the Personnel section of the US Army Reserves in St Louis before he got out.
Most likely, he lied about being a PH recipient.
At the Tahoma National Cemetery in Covington, Washington the spouse is buried in the same plot as the veteran. For cremations, they rest in the same niche.
No AOC/Bernie?
They could free up a lot of room if they buried people standing up, in formation.
I suspect that having to wait in formation until the end of time for the Last Trump wouldn’t surprise anyone who’s eligible for an Arlington burial.
Take some of the money earmarked for Ukraine and Africa, buy more land and call it good.
I guess my 33 years (and counting, plus 1.5 to go), including 4 years at Fort Myer with MANY trips into Arlington to provide honors to others is insufficient to get buried there. Who knew?
I have yet to see the actuality phrasing of the proposal, but the SA write-up I saw didn’t list congressmen as eligible under the proposed rules. Is this true?
If the proposal passes and otherwise-ineligible congressmen* are ever allowed to be interred, I am willing to (literally) flip some tables and toss some chairs.
I sincerely hope the more mature members of this community would address such an issue prior to that.
*unless otherwise specified, the use of the male gender refers to both genders
I can honestly say when I raised my hand, there was never a thought in my mind about being interred at Arlington. I really don’t see that being an incentive to enlist.
I don’t know about y’all, but I don’t remember being buried in Arlington as one of the bonuses the recruiters talked about.
Silver Star and above and Purple Heart only? That’s fucking ridiculous. That immediately narrows down eligibility to people that have only been in combat, and almost exclusively combat arms. I’d honestly like to see the blowback when all these O-7 through O-11 officers are no longer eligible for burial.
There is only one Lee Estate. The “next Arlington” won’t be. That does not mean, however that another spot should not be found. It simply won’t have the same meaning.
They lost me at “VA run”. That means it will be a monstrous mongolian clusterfuck.