Russia’s track record with combat engagements suggests their being in Ukraine for a long fight

| March 5, 2022

Unlike Afghanistan, where people are loyal to a tribe rather than to “Afghanistan”, Ukraine is a different story. The Ukrainians are determined to work with each other to push back against the Russian invaders. They also have more resources to utilize today than what was available in the 1980s.

From Fox News:

“These cities are going to get overrun, and it’s going to be a long, long haul for the Russians,” Mann continued. “If they think because they occupy these cities, that they’re done — if you look at the fighting spirit of the Ukrainian people — they are in for a nasty guerrilla warfare campaign that is going to bleed them dry.”

The retired Green Beret commander told Fox News the situation in Ukraine is unfolding opposite to the way things played out in Afghanistan.

“I’ve got to think that the Taliban are not liking what’s going on in Ukraine right now,” Mann said. “People are watching that and it is inspiring, regardless of your politics, to see people make a stand like that.”

Mann, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, founded Task Force Pineapple, a group that helped evacuate Afghan refugees after the country fell into the hands of the Taliban last year.

The group is not involved in Ukraine because, according to Mann, the circumstances are different.

“Even though it is horrific warfare, you have kind of a linear battlefield, and you have nation states,” said Mann. “I think volunteer groups, we have to be really careful about how we engage here and what we do.”

Fox News has the link here.

Category: Russia

62 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
STSC(SW/SS)

If the Russkies stay a lot of guys who don’t want to be there will die so Putin and the rest of the assholes can have their empire back.

Then again let Russia bleed.

Anonymous

Meanwhile, Putin blames Ukraine for the war being so jacked-up because they refused to be invaded:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/reports-russia-observe-ceasefire-2-070133818.html

AZRobert

Send Elon to puff with Putin to mellow his harsh and have an Orange Man Revolution here, a Mostly Peaceful Revolution.

Dr. Strange Love, Alas, Babylon and Warday times we live in. I read Warday in 1984 and just change Japan for China and it makes more sense now.

KoB

Shoot and scoot, Ukes…Rinse and repeat!   :arandammo: 

That Tar Baby gonna get real sticky there, Brer Vlad.

Last edited 1 year ago by KoB
Hack Stone
Hate_me

That’s a very niggardly approach to both the English language and African-American folklore.

Hate_me

Well aware, and Howard was a coward for tendering his resignation in the first place and then placing the heckler’s veto against himself.

Unless he was vying for a future SECDEF position, in which case it could be argued he’s fully qualified.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

That russian millionare put a million $ bounty on putins head. A better deal whould have been way over a million moola shmoola to make it more appealing.

Anonymous

Russky Mi-24 HIND shot down w/ Stinger in Ukraine:

Sapper3307
Roh-Dog
George V

I wonder what was used to get that video. It’s higher up that the helo. A large hobbyist drone, perhaps? I would guess the Ukrainians could use those for target spotting.

Anonymous

Just like someone used to get the cool An-225 take-off footage. Ukrainians are way big into drones.

Poetrooper

Damn, watching that sure makes ol’ Poe thankful the Viet Cong and NVA didn’t have Stingers or anything like them, only RPG’s with a max range of a coupla hundred yards.

Even as groundpounders, we spent a helluva lot of time on old, slow Huey’s occasionally taking small arms fire but nothing like that Stinger.

Hate_me

The Hind might be my favorite rotary wing ever developed, but it’s clearly a geriatric man in any modern war.

I’m not an expert on modern Russian tactics… how much of their approach is built around such platforms, and do they have an updated variation?

Anonymous

Ka-50, maybe… but even the Hind was toast in Rambo: First Blood, Part II‘s infamous unrealistic-as-f*ck disappearing-backblast-LAW scene 37 years ago and that’s fiction. (Just sayin’.) Ka-50 isn’t as heavily armed or with the endurance of the Hind, and Russia didn’t build as many of ’em in replacement either.

Hate_me

It worked just fine in Sierra Leone in the late 90s

Anonymous

True, but the opposition didn’t have MANPADS or weapons heavier than AKs/PKMs and some RPGs.

Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
rgr769

Yes, we were lucky all they had, other than the AA guns on the trail, were RPG’s and AK’s to shoot at our Huey’s as we flew into and out of our LZ’s.

I never realized how vulnerable to just AK fire Huey’s were until I watched the bullets come up trough the aluminum floor around my feet.

timactual

A friend of mine was a gunner on a Navy CH-46. He talked about the “laser light show” when rounds (plural) came through the floor and shafts of sunlight lit the interior.

Poetrooper

Counselor, have you heard about this?

honoraryairassualtinstructions.pdf (101namveteran.com)

I read about it a few months back and then forgot about it, but the truth of the matter is that we did pioneer the Air Assault concept and did it under fire not at a school site on Fort Campbell.

Whatever… 🤔 

rgr769

I had not seen this doc, but it would not apply to me as I was never in the 101st Ann. I satisfy all the other requirements though.

IIRC, our Spec 5 radio wrencher claims this is how he earned his Bullwinkle.

timactual

I thought it was the 11th Air Assault div. (test), which became the 1st Cav. Div. (Airmobile) in 1965 when it deployed to RVN that pioneered the air assault concept.

timactual

Starting in 1966(?) the bad guys also had increasing numbers of 12.7mm DShK machine guns.

In the early days helicopters flew as high as possible to avoid ground fire. By the time we left in 1972 helicopters were flying nap-of-the-earth to avoid SAM-7s.

Berliner

According to Putin, “the current government in Kyiv has to realize that if they continue to behave like this, they will endanger the future of Ukraine’s statehood. And if this happens it will be entirely their responsibility.”
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/5/7328496/

Нічого, Шерлоку! (Ukrainian for “No Shit, Sherlock!”)

Anonymous
Graybeard

Sounds like something out of the (D)umb-adz’s playbook to me.

Roh-Dog

This is going to go back-and-forth for some time. Imagine it’ll be like Grozny but without as much indirect and indiscriminate destruction. We will see how RF’s CoIn Op game be…

In June 2000, Russian police and special forces units began a counterinsurgency operation against the rebel forces in Grozny but the bombings and clashes in the city continued as the guerrillas hid among the partially returned civilian population. According to the mayor Bislan Gantamirov, the guerrillas were being helped by the Chechen police and the Russians were unlawfully killing up to 15 Chechens a day in Grozny. According to Russian military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer, one could “be robbed, raped or shot at any time – even if … loyal to Russia”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999–2000)

HT3

I figure the Russians plan was fire a few shots at Kyiv, Zelensky would flee, Ukrainian Military would crumble, and they’d be home before their tea got cold. Putin’s now bought himself a war of occupation. If he kills Zelensky, he becomes a martyr and saint (I know he’s Jewish) to the cause. No way he can install a puppet government without occupying the whole country. Vlad has played the West well in the past, but he really screwed the pooch on the one. Big Fat Fail.

Hate_me

I’m gonna argue that Zelenskyy should flee sooner rather than later. Don’t get me wrong, I respect the hell out of him for staying, and I realize he wants to look like a leader and not a coward…

…but, eventually, Kiev will be taken. NATO support will never be much more than moral; the West is far too afraid of a straight-up confrontation. The only thing worse for the Ukrainian cause than Zelenskyy being killed is Zelenskyy being taken alive.

Imagine Vichy France without De Gaulle to counter the rhetoric… or Buddhism, had the Dalai Lama remained in Tibet. Governments-in-exile are powerful forces for future effort. Dying in protest makes for good movies but doesn’t reclaim lost ground.

Mason

I tend to agree. Unless they’re able to push back on the Russians hard, which seems unlikely in the long run, his staying will be a death sentence (or worse).

Berliner

This could also qualify as stupid people of the week…
Russians entered elevator to cover the area from the roof of an office building and the Ukrainians turned off the power.
comment image?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=37ed42f761e2f4c8a6e1d9163057c9ef630de4aa

Berliner

Trying again… 7 Russkies trying to open the door to get out…
comment image?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=37ed42f761e2f4c8a6e1d9163057c9ef630de4aa

USAF E-5

So, apart from me, has anyone else read the 91 resolution between the Soviet Union and Soviet Ukraine? How about the re-unification agreement between FRG, the Soviet Union, the USA, France, England, and for some unknown reason…Ireland.? The first called for border discussion that the Soviet Union wanted to include the Russian Cossack areas of Crimea, Dobensk, and Luhansk under Russia. Oddly enough, the Ukrainian Parliament declined. However, negotiation continued, and in 2007, a new proposal was sent by none other than “Boris Yeltsin”. It was the same proposal. Ukraine considered it,,,until 2019, when they closed negotiations. BTW, the 2003 negotiations called for installation of some 160k border crossings, in response, the Ukraine put up 230 and said, “Now all your land are belong to us!” Here’s a funny little part NATO agreed to with the German Unification, “No NATO Troops would be stationed closer to Russia, than Eastern Germany’s borders.”

USAF E-5

But when you let other nations join, and they’re closer…well let’s say you look like you’ve got the integrity of you’re average D.C. Politician. I’m not saying they’re dishonorable officers for lying, but if a disease came around to kill only the dishonorable, they’d better look for a more sure cure than one from Pfizer.

Hate_me

I wish a few well-placed boat-tails could be written off as just a disease that kills only the dishonorable.

We’d need more bullets than we have viruses, I fear.

Hate_me

There’s clearly more nuance to the whole endeavor than simply “Ukraine good, Russia bad.”

You’ll likely get called a few names for bringing it up.

KoB

Naw, I don’t think that USAF E-5 would be called any names, per se, for pointing out some historical facts He made some very good points. Maybe NATO should have been disbanded, re-engineered, or re-thought out when the “Iron Curtain” fell. The American taxpayer has spent a bloody fortune over the decades to “defend” Europe (from themselves mostly) and to what gain? I do remember from my time in Germany, way back yonder, the Germans didn’t want us there, except for the money we brought, and the French damn sure didn’t. As we pointed out in the other thread, they’ve been fighting one another for centuries, just as the Muslims have, and the standoff between NATO and the USSR kept them “mostly peaceful”. Look what happened when all of the split BalticSlavicSerb states weren’t kept in line by the Kremlin. Not saying that Putin is not an egotistical maniac with visions of power and the glory of the former USSR. He is. The people that have been under that thumb don’t want to go back.

Hate_me

Beyond your assessment of Putin, I concur.

timactual

Yep. He’s just another of those Putin-loving NATO-bashing Trump extremists. Next he will be misusing NATO official documents by using “quotes” like—
” 23. NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. ”

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_8443.htm

Hondo

Might want to double-check your “. . . . and in 2007, a new proposal was sent by none other than ‘Boris Yeltsin'” statement regarding both date and sender. Or provide an accessible source supporting the claim.

I find it kinda hard to believe for a couple of reasons. First, Yeltsin resigned as Russia’s president at the end of 1999 (Putin succeeded him). Second, Yeltsin was in relatively poor health and reputedly maintained a low public profile after he left office – and he died in April 2007.

I’m not disputing your other points, which IMO are valid background info regarding the roots of the conflict.

Last edited 1 year ago by Hondo
USAF E-5

You’re right, I meant Putin. My bad. Honestly, the KGB Apparatchik all look alike to me. IMHO they’ve been running the place since Stalin outright, and pretty much while he was there as well. Traded the Tsar’s fro the Liar’s. What’s a few consonant’s between friends.

Graybeard

I get the feeling that Vlad is playing by Adolf Hitler’s playbook leading up to WWII, and the West is playing by England/France/etc’s playbook of the same time period.

And that the consequences of trying to avoid ticking off the madman will be similar.

But what do I know? I just read a history book or two.

Hate_me

I’d argue a better analogy is Austria-Hungary in the build up to WWI.

Mason

Whichever historical parallel you look at (and there is more than one), it’s only going to get worse.

Hate_me

We do live in interesting times.

The biggest concern for me, currently stuck in the States, is this whole “supervillain Putin” narrative is gonna save Brandon’s administration.

Hate_me

Or the American south after Harper’s Ferry

Anonymous

Especially his air force bombing and strafing civilians to make people want to leave.

KoB
Roh-Dog

Vista Outdoors (CCI, Federal, Remington Ammo, Blazer, Speer…) says they’re doing the same.

I sell my stock on Monday at market open and market price.

F**k them for playing with my money and involving my country in a war of choice.

http://media.vistaoutdoor.com/news/press_release/press_release.aspx?id=1603&brand=5&year=2022

Poetrooper

Anybody besides ol” Poe thinking that the problems the Russian forces seem to be experiencing might have something to do with their being so dishonest with their troops about their actual mission, as is being reported?

Several captured Russians have made that claim now on video: that they were told that they were only on maneuvers and would be welcomed by their Ukrainian brothers in arms and all those horny Ukrainian chicks. And so far, most of those videoed Russian troops appear to be teenaged draftees.

Perhaps the Russian High Command might want to re-think the concept of tricking your conscripts into battle. Doesn’t sound like a viable way of motivating your troops for combat. Don’t think I’d care to be a squad leader or platoon sergeant when my largely conscripted troops discover that they’ve been tricked into combat.

Yeah, yeah, ol’ Poe knows there’s lots of propaganda being put out on both sides but this just might be factual.

26Limabeans

Yeah, we were told the truth about Viet of the Nam.
At least today we have “fact checkers” so there’s that.

timactual

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”

Many of those “fact checkers” wouldn’t know a fact from a fart.

trackback

[…] This ain’t Hell.. discusses Russia being in Ukraine for a long time […]

The Pirate’s Cove

John

It could only be a stable genius like Trump to recognize just how smart a move his friend Putin has made.
Trump wanted to weaken NATO it is now stronger than it has ever been

rgr769

Trump never said he wanted to weaken NATO. He forced the other NATO members to start paying the 2% of GDP they were obligated by treaty to spend on their own military forces. He also questioned why we were providing and paying for about two thirds of the military force that is NATO’s combat power, when the organization is primarily in existence to protect the European nations of NATO.

You are either an avid reader of Progda media or a sock-puppet for a certain TDS infected commie cuttlefish aka Major Moonbat.

timactual

With members like Macedonia and Montenegro how could NATO not be strong? They more than make up for a useless German military and minimal British and French capabilities and US forces thousands of miles away which may or may not be available in Europe in time or numbers to make any difference.

Roh-Dog

Didn’t vote on your statement. The suicide cult known as NATO is only strong because they’ve got the biggest bully on the block to back up their smart lips. One should reserve the greatest hostility to friends that make immoral mistakes.

But we’re here now.

This isn’t Americas fight and we’d be wise to not allow the idiocy of Europe to embroil us in a d!ck-measuring contest that the EU had been warned was coming, repeatedly.

The world wants this, its clear. All the historical precedence and failed diplomacy be damned.

Steel yourself.

KoB

There’s going to be a reckoning…”Behold the Pale Horse…”

Mason

Trump wanted to strengthen NATO by making our “peers” in the treaty paying their obligated share to their defense. They are getting a lot more out of the NATO arrangement than we are. Which was prescient as now all of those allies are in need of boosting their defense.

Trump’s alleged praise of Putin’s move is just an observation, not an endorsement. Putin’s taking advantage of a weak, feckless senile leader of the free world.

There is no way anyone can look at the country under Trump and the country under Biden and think anyone in the world is better off with Biden. The whole world is on the brink of a world war and there’s nuclear saber rattling. Let’s Go Brandon!

Roh-Dog

CNN waving the pax americana f(l)ag…for reasons. I think its a personal latent hypocrisy they bemoan so much as they’re not gonna mark their names on the ledger. No. They too good for that. That’s what your tax dollars and sons are for:

Our country’s history is filled with brutality. It is also riddled with hypocrisies. Yet that’s why monuments like the Minute Man still stand. They remind us of who we are at our best, that democracy is something worth fighting, and dying for. 

Ukrainians know that. We used to know that. 

Their story echoes our story. 

Let us not forget.

Allow me to retort there, idiots. ‘He who dares, wins.’

This isn’t my country’s fight. Make it mine and you are my foe.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/06/politics/ukraine-democracy-lesson-us-blake-cec/index.html