Another Award? (Yawn!)
Every time I see a photo of GEN Milley Veniili, my eyes glaze over. He’s really got enough stuff on his suit jacket to set up shop.
So I did a little back history on people who kind of earned what they wore, just to try to balance things out a bit, because not everyone in the military is a putz. And I went back to WWII for this, because the people who served back then do put most of these current clankers to shame.
Just in case anyone was wondering, I started with Ike. He was elected President after Truman left office.
Dwight Eisenhower’s awards are listed in a column on the right side of this Wiki article about him, as well as where and in which conflicts he served.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Dwight_D._Eisenhower
Yes, I did look up MacArthur and Patton. Didn’t have to. Just thought I might drop in Ike’s stuff first, since I do remember when he was President (whether anyone liked him or not). It was back when Mao Tse-Tung was letting ten million people starve to death in Cbina and denying everything because he just didn’t ‘give a crap.
And here’s Douglas MacArthur’s ribbon rack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_summary_of_Douglas_MacArthur#Orders,_decorations_and_medals
GEN MacArtuur had a mere 61 years of service (1903 to1964) when he passed (still on AD) in 1964. Not going into his attitude, just saying he seems to have earned that ribbon rack.
I have also included that WWII Airborne officer James Gavin, who gave a pep talk to his troops while standing on the wing of an aircraft prior to embarking for Normandy, and when the 82nd Airborne returned to the USA, there was a parade in NYC.
The link to the victory parade video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s90og73p2fo
His bio is here, but they have his rank incorrect. He was a Major General. He told his recruiter that he was an orphan (which was true), so that he didn’t have to get his adoptive parents’ permission to enlist in the Army. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_M._Gavin
This link is even better: https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/23091
And then we have Patton. If you look at the list of his awards, it really isn’t all that long, is it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_summary_of_George_S._Patton#Orders,_decorations_and_medals
Nah, compared to the sycophants infesting the 5-sided Puzzle Palace these days, those guys are really short of all that “luncheon glory stuff”.
Not sure where my gedunk medal went, but that’s one you don’t have to fake. Everybody gets a gedunk medal. I do, however, have a whole bunch of very old, very faded ribbons from competing in horse shows when I was on the East Coast, and my horse and I earned that stuff, and there are all those awards I got when I competed in figure skating. Yeah, I did that, too. It was fun. I got a standing ovation for my impersonation of Tonya Harding and her whine about her skate not working properly at the Olympics, after her boyfriend tried to whack Nancy Kerrigan.
But this current crop of Pentagon pencil pushers, chair warmers, and luncheon speakers? They’re getting something for doing nothing other than sucking up to someone higher up the ranks. If you want to hire a “Yes” man, go to the Pentagon and find a spot outside in the parking lot, and then set up a card table with job applications and a sign that says “Now Hiring Yes Men”. You’ll probably get a bunch of applicants.
Sometimes, it’s almost like looking at Rome in its decline. No spine. No gumption. No common sense. What would they do if a real war started and they had to put up with being posted to a hellhole in eastern Europe, and actually lead by example? That’s really asking too much of them, isn’t it?
I wonder how these bozos will feel when the lights go out. I hope their wood chopping skills are good.
Category: "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves"
Some of MacArthurs ribbons look like the old TV test pattern.
That NDSM really stands out though.
Goo and interesting read.
“Good”.
Here’s another evaluation of Gen Milley from a dude who posts as Big Country Expat.
https://www.bigcountryexpat.com/another-full-day-and-general-milley/
His eval of General CRT is NOT flattering.
And BCE is a worthy daily (sometimes 2x daily) read.
Interesting analysis of his career. Does explain a few things. My time as 92-2002
Maybe someone who served in 80s on can answer for me. Miley’s Long tab. Can someone just go through the school and never serve on a team? Ranger tab yeah. Lot of my buddies when through ranger school as LTs but never served in the batts.
Maybe he only did minimal time in the teams and only served on a B team. Hence his avoidance of any action.
But this does explain a lot and why Miley is very risk adverse.
Affirmative. Used to be, occifers could do Airborne, AASLT or Ranger school just to earn the career-enhancing doohicky on their uniform (most awards of such, in fact, just because a “scare me” badge of some kind was just ‘spected of ’em) instead of having an assignment reason of some kind as it is today. Milley just got the Tab, expected of IN folk or they were chumps then.
P.S. SF, too. Not now, though. My bad.
Met a lot of “Ranger” folk that would tick-off Mat Best in the ’90s…
At the time Milley went to the Q course SF was not a branch. Officers maintained their basic branch (aviation was the same way, by the way).
Also, back then there were no SF warrant officers, so the team XOs were 1LTs.
In other words, guys would do a tour in SF, earn their tab (there was no SFAS back then), and return to the regular Army. Kind of like the Rangers today.
I don’t know about the 80’s amd 90’s, but in the 70’s a great many officers went through the Special Forces Officer Course (SFOC), which lasted 12 weeks at Ft. Bragg. Many of those officers never served in an SF slot, Of those that did serve in a group, it was not uncommon for them not to serve on an ODA. Many were branched other than infantry (there was no SF branch back then). So we had many officers who were not combat branched. Few of them would be assigned to an ODA. Most of us who were ODA officers were infantry. So, I would say it was possible Milley never served as an ODA commander. I think he was at least a Major when he served with the 5th Group, so at best, he could have been a company (B Team) commander. As an LTC, he would have been Deputy Group Commander, the Group G-3, or a battalion commander.
Ex:
With all due respect, IMHO and our opinion only, we don’t understand the comparision of WWII GO’s with today’s GO awards.
The WWII GOs were decorated with awards that pertain to their timeframe. Today’s GOs are wearing awards that did not exist during the WWII timeframe.
Not everyone who worked at the Pentagon was or is a “Yes Man”. The ninja family had three tours at the Pentagon, both with Army Staff and Joint Staff. We were given that assigment from our Branch Managers. We did not choose to go there. The Army chose us.
And yes, we left our tours with not only the Army Staff Badge and JCS Badge, but also with Awards…awards recommended by our Chain of Command.
A typical normal working day at the Pentagon was 10-12 hours, sometimes longer, sometimes on the weekends. And those hours did not include driving to and from work in that AWFUL DC Beltway traffic.
BTW, I had just PCSed from the Pentagon in August 2001 to my new duty station. I lost a couple of good Friends/Co-Workers on 9/11 who happened to be working in the wrong ring at the Pentagon. My Friends were definitely not “Yes Man”. My other Co-Workers and Friends were injured that day, some drenched in jet fuel, trying to save their office mates. They, too, were definitely not “Yes Man”.
Ex, the ninja family always appreciate your well-written and interesting articles. We both are not happy with Austin and Milley and were taken back on what they have become, considering they were not that way when we worked with them.
We just have a different perspective on awards that are given today as well as working at the Pentagon based on our own personal experience (and to show you our age and how long we served, we were awarded 3 NDSM…)
Thank You for sharing your thoughts with your post. As shared before, if we all agree on everything that is posted on TAH, this Blog would be boring.
There’s not much difference between being a yes man (which is overt) and being risk adverse (which is covert). Both are fundamentally the same thing.
My army days are behind me but since then I’ve been a DOD civil servant. Lately many leaders are risk adverse.
Oh, you get no argument from me, ninja. The officers I served under in my brief foray into the Navy were all people who had some field experience in the shoot-shoot-bang-bang setting. My company commander had served during the Korean War. She was a no nonsense type.
But this display of grandeur that shows up on the likes of Milley’s packaging, as someone else points out on the Big Country blog (link is above in comments), is questionable at best and murky at its worst. Remember, it’s an opinion piece only, and my own experience with officers, whether direct commissioned or mustangs, was that they had experience that was real-time – one was a POW during WWII in the Pacific – and Milley does not. There seem to be more like him than there are the hard-working lower-level people.
]Just my view, that’s all.
Only takes 1 “Aw Sh^t” to wipe out 99 “Attaboys”. Politics have been ingrained in the ossifer Corps since the very beginning. And in the NCO ranks. Nature of the Beast. I wasn’t a War Hero, but I did serve with some. I’ve also read about a bunch. Also served and work with/for in civvie life with some FIRST (ht 2 Roh-Dog) Class Sh^tbags.
Very interesting reads, Mi’Lady. Thanks.
And a shout out Thanks to Tox for the BCE linky. Bookmarked that one. Now I just have to remember I marked it and drop by there some more.
Yer welcome.
I do my little part to add variety to the TAH/VG soup.
https://youtu.be/JpgPD5M9AJs
“This one is for typing, this one is for dart champion and this one is for surfing…”
Milley does have much of a chest, so he wears his ribbons in rows of three across which gives him more rows of ribbons and a taller rack.
Real men will wear rows of four at the bottom with the resulting shorter rack.
Begging your pardon Colonel, but 670-1 says it’s the wearers option. I wore 3 rows, because 4 ends up under my lapel. So I’m not a real man? I bet you were a real fuckin joy to serve under. It would appear that a lot of senior NCO’s failed you as 2LT.
My point is that Milley doesn’t have a chest, and could wear rows of four and look more modest than the sycophant he is.
SFC D, yes, it is the wearer’s option. No offense intended, though. I was formerly enlisted (SSG) infantry, and I had many soldiers and NCOs from throughout my career give accolades at my retirement. However, I still think if you can wear four on a row, you should do it.
Name edited to protect PII.
AW1
I’m sure your mama is very proud.
Thanks. Autofill must have changed my info.
Colonel, I disagree about that real men comment. I served in the 90s and at that time, wearing greens, three across was the reg. I’m sure you and Milley were around then. Somethings become a habit. I’m pretty secure in my manhood, mind you, and I wore mine 3 across.
I understand you may have had a local reg, but DA Pam 670-1 has always authorized four on a row since I enlisted under Jimmy Carter.
Milley is not under such a local reg.
I’m glad you took the comment in the spirit in which it was intended and are secure, no sarcasm intended. I salute you.
Again, you are wrong. Read. The. Reg. It’s very clear and very simple. A man of your advanced rank should understand it.
(a) General. Ribbons are worn in order of precedence from the wearer’s right to left, in one or more rows, with either no space between rows or 1/8-inch space between rows. No more than four ribbons are worn in any one row. Soldiers will not start a second row unless they are authorized to wear four or more ribbons. The determination of whether three or four ribbons are worn in each row is based upon the size of the coat and the position of the lapel. The first and second rows will contain the same number of ribbons (three or four) before starting a third row. The third and succeeding rows will contain the same number of ribbons as the first two rows, but may contain less. The top row is centered on the row beneath, or may be aligned to the wearer’s left, whichever presents the best appearance (see fig 29.1).
https://www.ar670.com/
I won a number of bets when people who “I -know- the regs!” put their money up.
“…dang. Next payday?”
The reg is very clear. What part of “No more than four ribbons are worn on any one row” is unclear?
The carb creature Milley could wear rows of 4 and not look like Russian General Sukhomlinov. I’ve yet to kind anyone who disagrees.
Jesus. The guy was joking. He is making fun of Milley and making the point that by wearing rows of four ribbons it would look less gaudy.
Being a barrel chested steely eyed freedom fighter myself, long ago I went to a row of four and (gasp) only wore combat related awards.
Still waiting on a GO/FO to resign in disgust over the Custer cluck that was Biden’s cut & run from Afghanistan.
Fuster damned auto kerect.
I think you may have meant fuster cluck.
Operation Cluster Fuck… The Biden Regime’s Afghanistan’s withdrawal plan.
“Enduring Cluster F###” has a certain ring to it, yes?
They crossed phase line “hold beer” on their way to “WTF”.
“…almost like looking at Rome in its decline.”
Almost? It seems to me the USA said to Rome “Hold my winecup” a few years ago.
Well…. I was being kind, George V. Not every place in the US of A is that bad just yet.
How much of “I have my 214!” And “Glad I am retired!” counts as casting off shields in the heather?
So, I graduated from the Q-Course in the ’80s. You had to be assigned to SF to go to the Q. You might not be assigned to an A-Team after that. Of the O’s in my class, (I was a 1LT, made CPT the month after the Q), Most didn’t go to teams. There was the PAO guy. The Bn S-4. The Chem Officer and the MSC guy.
At that time, if you made it through the Q-Course and graduated you got the tab.
SF or no, the problem is that guys like Milley forgot what the job is, and what you are supposed to do as a leader. Accomplish the mission – take care of your people.
You come last.
For the Milley’s, them and their careers come first.
Rather like our Canukian Chief’s of Staff – they’re all Transplant Surgeon’s day-dreams – heartless, gutless and their brains and assholes are interchangeable…
Whenever I’ve been in the Pentagon I’ve seen naval officers wearing one row of their highest 3 ribbons. Can’t blame them. Lots of people with lots of ribbons in that place. Someone with common sense decided let’s just wear the 3 big ones.
I’m not sure if the other services do that or not. Maybe. But it seems like Ike, Patton and others may have been doing something similar for those pictures.
Milley is the man, though. He can make that change if he so desires. He seems to like it all on display. Seems like a pain in the ass to me.
Very common with Naval Officers- a few Army senior leaders were doing it as well (Dempsy and McMaster come to mind)
And to pick a nit….PH, I believe you are incorrect about Gavin’s rank. He was a LTG. The picture of him from 1964 has him sitting in front of a 3 star flag and wearing 3 stars on each epaulette. He’s wearing all o this stuff, it appears, in rows of 4.
Okay, thanks for the heads up. He’s described as both a Major General and a Lieutenant General, depending on where you look for info.
Awards. Always a touchy subject with some/many of us. So many of them are simply for showing up where you were ordered to go, when you were ordered to be there. Somehow, that just doesn’t seem all that award worthy. Of course, most of mine are for nothing more than doing my job and arriving on time. Guess that’s better than getting no recognition at all for doing the bare minimum when others aren’t even doing that.
The other sore spot with me was that I always seemed to be in a position where I was encouraged to wear every one of them. There were really only a few of them I really wanted to display, but the honchos always seemed to think it reflected favorably on them to be surrounded by folks with lots of awards.
They also gave me a hard time about a low level qualification badge which I wore alone on my BDU’s. It was the one I was most proud of so compromised with the brass – I wore the whole ribbon rack on my blues and they ignored the BDU’s. Of course, this all happened back when blues were the duty uniform for most of us, before everyone wore pajamas all the time.
Many, many years ago when I was just a young buck sergeant, I was assigned to a new unit. Now, I’m not a huge fan of being a walking awards billboard.
First time we had a dress greens inspection, the CO stopped in front of me, looked my uniform over and stated he wanted to see me in his ofice after inspection. In his office, he stated “I looked through your 201 and you aren’t wearing all of your authorized awards. Next inspection, I expect to see you wearing all of them.” “Yes Sir, I replied.”
The next inspection, he stopped in front of me, shook his head and stated I needed to stop in his office after inspection. In his office later, he stated, ” SGT Skyjumper I see you have all of your awards on now, but how did you figure out what particular order to put them in?.” I replied, “Sir, I just color coordinated them.” He damn near fell out of his chair laughing so hard!
He was one of those leaders that you would follow to hell and back. We got along just fine. (smile)
HOLY SHIT, after reading about the fruit salad ribbon verbal shootout, I’m in the safe zone as for only having 2 ribbons on my whites which most of you know what they are.
I hear ya. After a bunch of years, I “look like a Mexican general” with all the junk I’ve got. Cost $75 or so a pop to get my rack redone (forget doing that by hand– and jacking-up about half the ribbons– any more) when somebody decides to give me some award (Surprise!) right before some selection board or other.
That’s the shit that used to piss me off. I retired in 2017 and got my shit mounted one last time. That’s the rack I’ll wear to be buried in.
My old OIC periodically sends me messages to be a dick, “hey, new awards message came out…we rate BLANK now.”
“Sir, I dont….fucking….CARE!”
Much ado about nothing. Milley joined the army in 1980. The fact is that every time you PCS or deploy, you are going to get award. As you get promoted the level of award goes up. You get a couple more for just being in the service at all or being stationed overseas. Then you get a couple for actually doing good stuff over and above normal. That adds up. With 32 years of active enlisted and commissioned service (and counting) to the best of my knowledge (i.e. not pulling my blues out), I’ve gotten 18 different awards with 36 stars, clovers and moons attached. They represent 3 for wartime service, 9 for PCSing, 7 for deployments (I went along), 9 service awards (I was there), 5 for actually being recognized for good stuff, 1 for keeping my nose clean for three years (conduct) and 2 for NCO schools. It just adds up. Does it look tacky? Yes. I did work for a boss that had us wear the top six in two rows which was nice. Maybe there are complaints to be made about army leaders but this probably isn’t one.
The only “I was there” ribbons I received were the standard three from my RVN service. Got zip for my service in Germany. But then I was just an LT when I DROSed from the land of Bier und Bratwurst. But back then everyone with five to ten years in wasn’t festooned like a French brigadier.
Came in during the ’90s and been overseas (qualified to joint the VFW) 12 times, so I’ve got more ribbons than my CG. (Jump wings plus 101st Airborne combat patch– Band of Brothers!– too.) More than guys who did Iraq/Afghanistan 5 or six times. 1 x BSM and no PH. I refused to get a CAB unless I got hit, knocked down or the building I was in got hit in an IDF attack (unlike the frickin’ lawyers) because I have to look myself in the mirror. What’d I get all that for? Behaving myself, behaving myself, etc. and (after the NDSM) breathing, breathing and breathing, etc.
“Every time I see a photo of GEN Milley Veniili, my eyes glaze over. He’s really got enough stuff on his suit jacket to set up shop.”
The pictures I see of Milley in Uniform remind me of those of top Soviet Generals in the 80’s!
No one can hold a candle, or in this case, a ribbon, to any North Korean General. Hell, their racks continue down to the pants pockets of their uniforms.
I hope that doesn’t give anyone in the puzzle palace any ideas.
Unfortunately I’m sure that it has, I’ve seen pictures and video of the Nork Generals you’re talking about!
My 23 years was half active / half guard , different ribbons for the same thing. With deployment and things on each end. I could pass for French traffic cop.
Is this thread about Breakneck Speed Perkins?
I would swear I was having another argument with Ninja about Perkins in this thread. I guess it disappeared.
So, when does Milley-Vanilli get the Legion of Penis (with nutsack cluster) for his tactical ineptitude in Kabul?
Believe it or not, the Chairman has very little to do with operational planning. This is all on the shoulders of the CENTCOM commander, who really should stop doing press conferences and retire ASAP.
Thank God the 82nd Airborne Division and the Marines were there to make stuff happen. When in doubt, put some of America’s best on the ground and they will make the best of it.
Wait till they finish with ingraining woke and critical race theory philosophy into the troops. The military had been in decline for decades. I’ve seen the military go from what it was at the end of the Cold War to one where the rank and file can’t handle the kind of leadership and environment that we were subjected to. Something about “creating a hostile environment”. Joes are catered to rather than raked through the coals and held accountable for their actions. Wokeness and critical race theory would finish that off.
Chicoms’ whole plan. Watch.
If I were the President at the time of Milley’s retirement, I would attend the big Ft. Meyer’s retirement ceremony for him and award the Joint Service Achievement Medal to him as his end of service award.
We could have done better with soldiers had they been drafted straight out of a men’s prison and paid them in alcohol and free pussy.
You think any of these jokers will take responsibility when the Afghanis they brought over start beheading Americans, detonating in public spaces, or running children down with trucks?
To preface, I am no fan of GEN Milley. I have actually met him twice- once when I was a very young and dashingly handsome captain in 2ID and he was 1-506 commander, and once when he was the CSA and I was a disillusioned but humble public servant, and my boss, a war fighting GEN who shall not be named, was briefing him on a critical issue that fell upon deaf ears despite my brilliant input. I will provide no more details as they would reveal my secret identity. That said, Milley is the real deal. He commanded at every level from company to corps, and he’s logged his time in the shiz. I kinda think he is a jerk, but I know he was a very good tactical leader. The problem is that the Army tends to train and promote great tactical commanders that are completely unprepared to be strategic thinkers. PH, you mentioned guys like Eisenhower. Little known fact, Ike never really served in combat- he missed out on WWI and was a major for most of the interwar years. He made his bones serving for some very famous generals (he was actually MacArthur’s aide), and was recognized as a master administrator and planner- just the guy we needed to actually win the war in Europe. The unsung hero of WWII was of course George Marshall, and while he saw combat in the Great War it was not extensive. Again, he had the strategic vision to see not only that a war was coming but what kind of Army we would need to win it- that is strategic thinking. Again, I am not a Milley apologist, but keep in mind that under the current structure the CJCS and even the service chiefs have very little authority. In Marshall’s time there was no SecDef, only the Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy (all you Army guys, pull out an old award, the Army Seal still says ‘War Office’, which, I think, is kinda cool). I have no doubt that the National Security Council framed all… Read more »