Yes Mr. President, That’s a Rock and That’s a Hard Place
Everybody on the right seems very up in arms over the brutal events transpiring in Iran right now. I agree that it is certainly of concern but the Wall Street Journal (among many others) has came out and said the President should take action.
Having shown such courage, the demonstrators deserve Western support, not least from the media that have recently trumpeted the Mousavi candidacy as evidence of Iran’s openness and potential for reform, conciliation and so on. Whatever happens in the days ahead, the world has now seen the tyranny raw. The least we owe the protestors is not to look away.
That moral obligation goes especially for the Obama Administration. President Obama came to office promising the world’s dictators an open hand in exchange for an unclenched fist. But as with Kim Jong Il’s nuclear advances and the sham trial of two Americans in North Korea, Mr. Khamenei has repudiated the President’s diplomacy of friendly overture. It turns out that the “axis of evil” really is evil — and not, as liberal sages would have it, merely misunderstood.
The vote should prompt Mr. Obama to rethink his pursuit of a grand nuclear bargain with Iran, though early indications suggest he plans to try anyway. On Saturday, the New York Times quoted one unnamed senior Administration official to the effect that the election uproar would cause Mr. Ahmadinejad to be more receptive to Mr. Obama’s overtures as a sop to disgruntled public opinion. If the Administration really believes this, then Mr. Obama is the second coming of Jimmy Carter and the mullahs will play him for time to get their bomb.
That all sounds good but what specific “action” do you want the President to take?
I am not defending Obama; in fact, I think his general weakness probably emboldened the Iranian President to choose this course of action.
I looked everywhere I could think of and I discovered that while everyone is outraged and posting brutal photos and videos, I had trouble finding anyone with a suggested answer.
Then finally I found the transcript of a Fox News Sunday morning talk show where Bill Kristol finally answered my question.
KRISTOL: He should support the demonstrators. He should say that stealing elections is unacceptable, killing demonstrators in the streets of Tehran is unacceptable. He could work with the Europeans to say, “Let’s bring in international observers to review whether this was a fair election. If it wasn’t, let’s think about having another election.”
By saying “Europeans” he means the United Nations.
What if the Iranians say no? As they have for 30 years of ineffective bullshit from the “Europeans”.
What if they do exactly what the “reformist” Mousavi did in 1988? Namely drag about 30,000 malcontents out to the desert and blow their frigging brains out?
What then, Bill? Another strongly worded letter from the Security Council?
This would just make the United States look even weaker in the Arab world.
Look folks, this was always a choice between bad or worse and honestly bad won. Stop siding with these protesters! They are supporting a guy that makes I’madinnerjacket look mild.
Let’s try this in historical context. Suppose after Hitler invaded Poland he kept going and a major war broke out between Hitler and Stalin? Both maniacal dictators that held no problems with killing millions of their own citizens. Which side would you take?
Get over it people, Iran is not at a tipping point in terms of freedom and democracy. They are at a flash point of picking one murderous extreme Islamist over another one.
I’m sick of this outrage crap. Let the radicals kill each other and move on.
Besides, Obama is too busy socializing America to worry about this.
Category: Politics
Good Post Cob6:
I admit that what I know of Iranian government and politics would fit on a 3×5 index card with room left over for my grocery list. However, all most of us know about Mousavi is that he isn’t Amaedinijad. Moreover, even if we do enter into this turmoil what do we get? Iran is likely to say “no” and those who already hate us have another “example of America’s empiracal tendencies.”
Though it is interesting that Iran has gone from Pseudo ally in 2001 in the early days of Operation Enduring Freedom to a supporter of the taliban. We missed an opportunity several years ago to foster a better relationship that could have possibly negated some of this. But, we can’t unring the bell and all we can do is watch this unfold.
…..nail, meet hammer…..
Well said.
“We missed an opportunity several years ago to foster a better relationship that could have possibly negated some of this.”
Avoiding foreign entanglements and intrigues is the better route to take. The only relationships we need with foreigners are ones based on fair trade and honest commerce, not manipulation and coercion.
HM2,
The thing you ought to know about Mousavi is that he is one of the main guys behind the 1983 bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon that killed over 200 Marines and Sailors. I remember being on duty when that happened and the rage that we all felt about that incident.
Our nation has known about Mousavi ‘s involvement for 20 years, yet we have done nothing to try and bring him to justice. What if he get’s ahold of the presidency? What then?
Mousavi is also a compatriot of Ahmadinijad, helping to overthrow the Shaw and storm the US Embassy and take hostages. He and ol’ beady eyes go way back, so it’s not like we are looking at a true “reformist”.
Mousavi is also the one who cleaned out the Universities and banned all western books, and executed thousands of students who took umbrage with his actions.
This whole event is, to my mind, being staged by the Mullahs in a sick kabuki theatre kind of way. They want to have their other boy, Mousavi , seen by the west as a “reformer” and get him into office, making a sham “moderate” government for the US and the west to fawn over.
Obama and the “Political Special Olympics” crew he has with him are clueless about the situation, and I am convinced this whole affair will be a disaster for us if we get involved.
Better to let all of them kill eachother off and we see where the dust settles. Persia has been a thorn in Western Civilization, a politcal version of Jock Itch, for 3 thousand tears. It’s time the world was rid of them.
Persia Delenda Est.
“Political Special Olympics” crew…. I wish you’d posted a spew alert on this. But, a great description of the children running this country, Tim.
As for the Persians, they’ve had the dream of being the “master race” for centuries and, we and the rest of the world would be far better off if they did, indeed, cull their herd down to a manageable size.
“It’s time the world was rid of them.
Persia Delenda Est.”
“As for the Persians, they’ve had the dream of being the “master race” for centuries and, we and the rest of the world would be far better off if they did, indeed, cull their herd down to a manageable size.”
Perhaps they wouldn’t be a people dominated by the mad mullahs if we hadn’t aided the Brits in deposing the democratically elected Mosaghdeh. Just a thought.
Junior Ag:
We used Iranian air space to go after the Taliban and the Iranians also honored our request to move their infantry to the border to create a blocking position. Yet, a few short months later they were part of an “Axis of Evil” with the North Koreans and their arch enemy Saddam Husein. What would have happened if we had continued to use them as an ally in the war against our mutual enemy the Taliban? No one can say. But the AOE remark forced the country to make a rightward turn and we got President Achmed’sDinnerJacket.
We had no trouble jumping into bed with the dictator of Pakistan who was equally brutal to his own people and possibly sponsoring regional terrorism.
I think its better not to create more enemies than we need at any one time. Call me crazy.
Get over it people, Iran is not at a tipping point in terms of freedom and democracy. They are at a flash point of picking one murderous extreme Islamist over another one. That statement is not supportable by fact. Iranian politics is not reducible to “murderous extreme Islamists,” though I understand the temptation. It is wrong — and dangerous, in the long run — to shrug our shoulders and classify all of Iran as unworthy of our consideration. As shown in Lebanon, it is possible for common people of the Middle East (Muslims as well as Christians) to choose a less extreme path and desire liberty and justice from their government. That should be something we can support. Here are the seven demands of the Iranian protesters, as reported from multiple sources: 1. Dismissal of Khamenei for not being a fair leader 2. Dismissal of Ahmadinejad for his illegal acts 3. Temporary appointment of Ayatollah Montazeri as the Supreme Leader 4. Recognition of Mousavi as the President 5. Forming the Cabinet by Mousavi to prepare for revising the Constitution 6. unconditional and immediate release of all political prisoners 7. Dissolution of all organs of repression, public or secret It’s not the Declaration of Independence, but nobody is claiming this to be a replay of the American Revolution. A better Iran can come from this, and US diplomacy can help. In the words of Pres. Reagan: The Polish nation, speaking through Solidarity, has provided one of the brightest, bravest moments of modern history. The people of Poland are giving us an imperishable example of courage and devotion to the values of freedom in the face of relentless opposition. Left to themselves, the Polish people would enjoy a new birth of freedom. But there are those who oppose the idea of freedom, who are intolerant of national independence, and hostile to the European values of democracy and the rule of law. Two Decembers ago, freedom was lost in Afghanistan; this Christmas, it’s at stake in Poland. But the torch of liberty is hot. It warms those who hold it high. It burns… Read more »
And, as stated by John Bolton yesterday:
In fact, with careful outside support, the post-election outrage in Iran, with time, could grow sufficiently to reverse the Islamic Revolution of 1979 and replace it with a system of representative government. What may be the most positive outcome from what the defeated Mousavi called this “dangerous charade” is that Iranians — and Westerners — will now realize there can be no true democracy as long as the Islamic Revolution remains in power.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23744.html
If you guys wanna believe that the Iranian response is like Solidarity in Poland, then there’s nothing I can say to you. You’ve already drunk the kool-aid.
Listen up. The real power in Iran is NOT the Mullahs, though they wield a lot of influence. The real power is with the Republican Guard. If the US goes through and supports the protesters, what changes? Only the names, and for the worse, considering who there candidate is, a hands-on terrorist.
All that will happen will be like Hitler being voted out, but the SS & Gestapo staying in place. It’ll be pretty much what happened time & again in the USSR.
HN2: You asked about Iranians allowing us to overfly their airspace? It’s because they wanted Saddam gone. No other reasons, except that it also allowed them to move Quds forces into Iraq and cause more trouble, hopefully enough to be able to influence a large portion, if not all of Iran.
Iran was hoping we’d be gone right quick. They wanted to exploit the vacuum they dorsaw developing, but it idn’t play out for them, although they’ve got folks still involved in country.
You guys keep up your illusions, but pretending that Iran will change it’s spots through an election is like trusting a pet lion to never harm you. You might luck out, but odds are you’ll end up like Siegfried and Roy. Mauled and nearly killed by those same friendly beasts.
respects,
To be clear, I don’t believe that the situation in Iran today is exactly like 1981 Poland. The Solidarity movement was much more organized. Mir Hossein Mousavi is not Lech Walesa, obviously. Look beyond the specifics that Reagan was referring to, and see the general principle.
The ideas of liberty and self-determination should be encouraged by a US president, wherever and whenever they present themselves. We don’t owe that to the world; we owe that to ourselves.