The Taliban enters Kabul and demands unconditional surrender
History forgotten is history repeated.
The Taliban entered Kabul while demanding an unconditional surrender from the central government. With helicopters flying overhead to evacuate western staff from embassies, people went about pulling out money from ATM machines and headed for an exit out of Afghanistan. The Taliban claims that they want a peaceful transfer of power and that they would not interfere with private citizens.
From The Washington Examiner:
In a stunning rout, the Taliban seized nearly all of Afghanistan in just over a week, despite the hundreds of billions of dollars spent by the U.S. and NATO over nearly two decades to build up Afghan security forces. Just days earlier, an American military assessment estimated it would be a month before the capital would come under insurgent pressure.
Instead, the Taliban swiftly defeated, co-opted, or sent Afghan security forces fleeing from wide swaths of the country, even though they had some air support from the U.S. military.
On Sunday, the insurgents entered the outskirts of Kabul but apparently remained outside of the city’s downtown. Sporadic gunfire echoed at times though the streets were largely quiet.
Workers fled government offices, and smoke rose over the city as embassy staff burned important documents.
Taliban spokesman Suhail Shaheen told Qatar’s Al-Jazeera English satellite news channel that the insurgents are “awaiting a peaceful transfer of Kabul city.” He declined to offer specifics on any possible negotiations between his forces and the government.
But when pressed on what kind of agreement the Taliban wanted, Shaheen acknowledged that they were seeking an unconditional surrender by the central government.
Taliban negotiators headed to the presidential palace Sunday to discuss the transfer, said an Afghan official who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals. It remained unclear when that transfer would take place.
The Washington Examiner has the full article.
Category: Afghanistan, Taliban
As said by others more eloquently, I now know how our Vietnam era comrades felt watching the embassy evacuation.
That being said, I’m not the slightest bit surprised the Afghani government folded like a cheap suit.
I’m feeling it. I didn’t understand it then. Now I do and it hurts. But I’m also not surprised. The Taliban didn’t just enter Kabul today. They’ve been there all along.
SFC and Penguinman, I know it hurts, but you served with HONOR and, unlike many of our politicos and the scum who ran/defended Afghanistan, you can look yourselves in the mirror with no problem.
Thank you for your sacrifice and service.
Take it from this ol’ Vietnam ground-pounder, now feeling it for the second time, it’s not anything you’ll ever get used to.
Nor should you have to…
It’s not anything you should get used to.
I’m not reading about this now.
Coupla months maybe I’ll read up on it.
Well, on the bright side I get to say “I told you so” again. I may change my nom de net to Cassandra. Still doesn’t help my “anger issues” any, though.
I think that the only way we could have avoided this exact scenario would have been by turning Afghanistan into a parking lot.
The Taliban was just too entrenched throughout the country. And the Afghan “Army” worthless beyond the capability to describe.
“And the Afghan “Army” worthless beyond the capability to describe.”
True, it was corrupt and incompetent regardless of how much we tried to train them to be otherwise. Whatever we helped rebuild will be turned into shithole ruins in no time at all. I’m also sure that the first thing the Taliban inbreds will do is shit and piss all over everything just before they go on a “Man-Love Thursday” binge!
We’ve secured the airport and have an “embassy presence” there (one in town’s closed) while waiting for the extra forces to get there.
They need to be careful with their wording. If they say that the airport itself is now the embassy, then Biden’s unlimited illegal immigration policy will preclude them from enforcing any borders.
Surrender, on your knees and live as a slave or die.
Peaceful religion.
I’ve never seen any of the Alien flicks but the line, but I think I agree with Ripley, “Nuke the entire site from orbit – it’s the only way to be sure”
That truly is the only way that part of the world will ever be civilized…
Or as General Curtis LeMay was once heard to mutter through cigar-clenched teeth with complete disdain “Ya never miss with a Nuke”. In my school – When in doubt, rounds-out. Better to apologize to a smouldering grease-spot than become one.
Another biden foreign policy success..
And yeah, the afghan army obviously didn’t want to win. Very few in that part of the world seem to want to be members of a civilized world, especially anything more modern than the 9th century.
Should have taken all our toys and let them fend for themselves, they wouldn’t have fallen any faster, and the taliban wouldnt have so much of our equipment / technology.. (along with iran, china, et al)
Didn’t he specifically say there would be “no helicopters evacuating people from the embassy roof” just a couple weeks ago? Yeah, that aged well.
well yeah, he did, but like obama, you can tell when he’s lying, because his lips are moving…
Yup.
https://twitter.com/StefSimanowitz/status/1426846783267909633
And before Biden it was a Trump foreign policy success and before that it was an Obama foreign policy success and before that it was a Bush foreign policy success. The music has stopped and Biden is left holding the “hot potato”.
There is a hierarchy of blame with enough to go around. Of the 4 administrations, Trump gets the least blame. He had an agreement, no it was not a good one but it was all that could be expected. In short, Taliban and Ghani – you two sit down, figure how to coexist. We’ll be completely gone by May 1. Whatever happens after that is a sovereign issue, unless or until you threaten us or ours. Yes, I know there was a lot more than that, this is not the time/place to argue it. The one with the most blame is Bush but Obama/Biden are a close second place. Bush, because he did not end this in December, 2001 when we had the chance. Obama because all his surge amounted to was a huge number of Americans to act as bullet-bait with his ROE’s. Biden, because it was more important to change anything that Bad Orange Man did than anything else. Just my thoughts, and I share them at this time as a reminder of what is important, which is not where to place the blame. The ONLY blameless are those who were boots on the ground, who left parts of themselves either literally or figuratively in that hell-hole. This is where my heart and thoughts are concentrated. The hardest part right now is tuning out all the noise from the talking heads, whether the media or the politicians, all who want to spin this to support their own narrative. I am currently trying to reschedule a meeting I have for tomorrow because this will come up. I don’t think I’ll be able to hold back when a few who will be present will make stupid, uninformed, self-congratulatory statements. I have held back successfully for several years with these idiots, but not now. I WILL unload on them, probably ending my career. I swear to Christ, I don’t know if I would be able to keep from physically beating them with my bare hands. I’ve been asked in the recent past how I would think, feel or react if, or… Read more »
Spot on OAM. You nailed it. You hang tuff. You have the utmost undying love and respect of all of us. You and all the other Gold Star Moms that made the ultimate sacrifice. Don’t worry about your career, you have a life long position as an Adorable Deplorable. And if you need something to keep you busy or in walking around money, then just Welcome South Sister, we’ll hook you up. If them folks gives you a hard time, this could be the sign and opportunity for you to beat feet to an area that will appreciate you. AW1Ed has my contact info.
His Blessings be upon you.
I am with KoB, Only Army Mom. Anything you need help with, you how to let us know.
You too, Sparks. You too. I know I’m safe here, it’s the only place I dare share some of my darker thoughts, knowing they will be understood in context.
Sign me in too.
My prayers are with you, OAM. BUT! Do what you’ve got do and say what you’ve got to say – better to be at peace in body and spirit than risk destroying both through ephemeral conformity. As my Grandmother would’ve said “Remember who you are”.
KoB- thank you dear deplorable curmudgeon. I’m serious, this could be it. After several years of holding back, the tether May have just snapped. Any next steps will be after the Holidays. Hate to leave my home, need to find 4 walls I love as much on a few acres with an out building for an office. And room for future homes cause family will follow
Come on. 2800 sq ft, brick, with semi finished basement,3 bed 3 bath, 1 room with interior and exterior doorways, (master bed/office with it’s own bath),large kitchen (gas stove), huge living room and dining room, den, 2 large rocking chair porches, screened in pavilion building in back, deep drilled well, 2 car garage sitting on 15 acres is available.
Bring the whole clan. Here’s your sign. (ht 2 Ron White)
KoB-you missed your calling, you should be in sales. Tempted to ask for a sales contract, sight unseen!
Also – need enough distance from neighbors. Brother and buddies are over practicing bagpipes in the basement at the moment. Calming my heart with each tune. Pissing off some of the neighbors, I’m sure, which is bonus happiness.
Closest neighbor is 1K feet in each direction and one of my bestest buds is a piper. Scotty has gone to the Old Country on several trips for the big gathering. Oh…and the local Class VI store stays stocked up on Guiness.
I see Bush’ failure more to the pointless invasion and occupation of Iraq. That wasted effort took needed resources away from the true fight.
5JC – Wonder what your thoughts are… the intent was always to hit Saddam. Boots on the ground in Afghanistan gave the excuse to remove Saddam and keep him away from the back door, armed as he was with the weapons we sold him. Honestly, it is so far the best theory, fitting the most facts, of the real reason not to expeditiously end it in December 2001.
Sadam was not armed with weapons we sold him. He was given intel in his war with Iran because we did not want the mullahs to win. Most of his weapons came from Russia and the Warsaw Pact countries. That trope that the U.S. sold Saddam weapons weapons has been repeated so many times the clueless now believe it. We didn’t have thousands of Russian tanks and AK47’s to sell Saddam. Here’s a test: Name one military weapon the U.S. sold Saddam’s Iraq. Cuz not one weapons system or aircraft I have seen in films and photos was one of ours.
I sure saw a metric shit-ton of M113’s in the scrapyards after desert storm. I’m pretty sure they weren’t ours, with those pretty red crescents painted on them.
Over 20 nations have had M113’s. There was no shortage of them in the Middle East. The Lebanese had quite a few of them, as well as the Israeli’s. Recall that Saddam had his people buying surplus arms all over the world. He was planning to lead all of the Arab world as long as he was in power. At one point, his Army was larger than ours. He thought he would become the equivalent of Hitler in the Arab world. The Baathist Party was founded by a fellow who was quite a fan of the Nazi Party.
Moreover, Iran was equipped with a number of M113’s, likely acquired when the Shah was running the show. Many were captured by the Iraqi Army during the Iran-Iraq war. The ones you saw were likely originally Iranian.
Remember, the M113 was one of the most successful personnel carriers; it was produced/updated for over 35 years.
M109 howitzer– we sold him a battalion of ’em.
No serious argument except for blaming Bush for the depletion of assets which occurred before he took office. Difficult to use weapons/armaments which did not exist when he needed them.
partially true TA, but biden and his fools decided to pull the troops put, leaving behind equipment and civilians, instead of doing it in a coordinated, intelligent manner. There was no real question that it would return to a 9th century shithole, but if the withdrawal had been done intelligently, it wouldn’t look like Saigon all over again.
I was in my early teens when Saigon fell… felt so sad on that day.
Today seems like deja-vu… and I feel so sad for those that fell while serving over there.
Heartbreaking. I’ve gotten to the point that I can’t watch movies/footage from over there. Seeing our troops wounded or killed just rips me to shreds.
Thus is written O’Biden’s legacy.
Biden’s occupied inaugural brought in 15,000 troops, is memory serves, to protect his windmills from American windmill owners.
In a moment of dire capitulation, the ice cream man calls up 5,000 troops and pleas with the Taliban to cut him some slack before bunny-hopping off for some much needed rest and relaxation.
Joe and his administration have shown him to be the Field Marshal of Shame and Disgrace.
Mr. Obiden is indeed a shovel ready project. May his crowning achievement be assuming room temperature, all by himself.
Exactly like Saigon.
Fixed-wing evac at KIA, too: https://mobile.twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1426948508289011712
….Some friends are checking out a set of pics right now that may show a Saigon evac CH-47 over Kabul.
State Department air arm uses CH-46s that are gov’t property from back in the day, so… more than likely, let’s just say.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/24017/the-u-s-state-department-has-its-own-sprawling-air-force-heres-whats-in-its-inventory
I served in Vietnam and later watched its fall from the States. I was heartsick then. God be with our troops there now and the ones they are trying to protect and get out.
P.S. Don’t expect any help from Washington.
From one of the articles:
“Just last week, a US intelligence estimate said Kabul could hold out for at least three months.”
Yea, that’s US intelligence for you. It’s easy to call the bullshit from Washington, not so much on the ground.
But Gen. Milley is dialed in on being “woke”. War fighting and all that entails, not so much.
His studies of “white rage” should come in handy about now.
Adam Shifty & Eric Swallowwell, are on the Intelligence Committee. That should be enough to explain everything!
And Ilhan Omar on the Foreign Relations Committee. 🙄
According to this, the Afghan Army has no will to fight and many haven’t been paid for months, corruption is a part of everyday life over there, even worse than Chicago:
https://www.businessinsider.com/afghan-forces-havent-been-able-to-hold-off-the-taliban-2021-8?op=1&fbclid=IwAR3vOow_6rnQGwzrscBc_OoT6u7yVS6NwGQN39N0yqWFOc87dBKtSQTjU_c
If the media had been doing its job for the last twenty years this would be old news. Trump sends a nasty tweet—headlines and commentary for a week; coverage of A’stan and Iraq where our forces are fighting and bleeding—crickets. I wonder what the difference could be?
I saw just how full of shit the news media is when I was there.
Bill Clinton gave us Mogadishu, Hillary gave us Benghazi and now Biden is giving us this.
I believe he has sat on his hands hoping this would go away. This was underestimated, poorly planned and so far poorly executed. I think we are only keeping our heads above water because the Taliban deems it so. It is up to them and if they decide to head for the Kabul airport, our troops will be in a fight for their lives and our civilians will be lucky to leave the Embassy. At that point, they will forget about the Afghan allies who have served for 20 years and they will either go to Vietnam style reeducation camps, (you will learn or your head comes off), or they will pull a full Khmer Rouge (we don’t care if you learn, we’re killing you anyway) on the city because of so many thousands that worked for us. If they get caught or dimed out for speaking English, they’re dead.
The Taliban are talking about a peaceful transfer of power, only until they have full power. Then Sharia law for everyone. The women will be hit the hardest. Girls who were going to school, not anymore.
This is making me sick to my stomach.
If the Taliban decided to attack us at the airport or anywhere else, all bets are off and the green light is there to immolate them.
Bomb them back past the Stone Age (cause they’re already in the Stone Age!).
hat would be the correct response Mustang.. I don’t for a second believe that bidens handlers would have the balls to allow / order it.
As has been said:
Biden had help. There are a couple of mail sacks full of signed gift cards going back 20 years that go with this “gift”.
American citizens abandoned while the ambassador has fled to the airport with the flag. US nationals are supposed to ask for repatriation by applying on line.
Fucking cowards.
Fucking seriously? Jesus Holy Christ.
Remember when the left was talking about how America will supposedly be “respected” again once Trump was out of office? Yeah, not seeing it.
Here’s the memo.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E82B6GCXEAQBCws?format=jpg&name=small
“Shelter in place” is Bidenese for “YOU’RE FUCKED”
And these are the Democrat progressive bureauwienies who want to run your life through COVID scares, gun control and Green New Deal crap, too.
They are laughing at us now.
And how many do you think will be “repatriated” after the Taliban take over? If they’re stuck, they won’t be coming home alive – he Taliban will take care of that.
Damn right. Think about that, progressive cowards– your sainted jihadist buddies will do it.
First Biden recreates the Fall of Saigon. For his next trick, he’ll recreate the Iranian hostage situation and Operation Eagle Claw.
“Fucking cowards” is right. All the way up to the Oval Office.
You gotta be shittin me! Go online and fill out a fucking form! That probably has to go back to DC instead of the Embassy. If you can get an online connection that is.
This was bad last night and this morning, it is now officially fucked.
And “You must submit this form even if you’ve previously submitted your information to the U.S Embassy in Kabul.”
This is so wrong. I damned well know that the Embassy knows every American there and has their paperwork.
If they would just ask for rent assistance, or welfare, declare as Antifa or BLM the left would have them out this afternoon.
This is going to cost lives I fear.
If we were a serious nation this would lead to cleaning out all the rot and top brass at:
Pentagon, State, FBI, Justice, CIA. , Congress. Not with a broom but a pressure washer. Put them all out to pasture
Agreed
It certainly feels strange to read someone else not placing all the blame on Biden.
Just for giggles I might actually watch some of those retired GOFOs and high-ranking intelligence types now working as “analysts” at CNN, etc. Should be funny–sort of like listening to Eichmann and the other Nazis telling us they were just clerks with no influence or knowledge.
Biden doesn’t even know where he is. Time for ice cream!
Word is Biden’s favorite flavor is Rocky Road.
Second favorite is plain vanilla.
The “process” or “algorithm” told ’em to do it, jawohl!
Pentagon is too occupied at the moment in ensuring any personnel that refuse a non-approved FDA experimental vaccine is discharged from the military.
And making sure the rest of the military gets their annual extremism training accomplished.
Ya know. The important stuff.
Video is from July 8,2021.
That didn’t age well..
“We were winning when we left.”
I hear ya…
Never should have spent 20 years in that tribal country, and it was all for nothing. After the 2001 attacks, troops were sent in and did what they had to do and that should HAVE BEEN IT.
Then the Taliban would have regained control during the 2000s and they’d be well on their way to exporting their fight beyond Afghanistan. Their ultimate objective is global Islamic caliphate.
This was another case of Washington trying to do something that should have been left to the generals, a case where the Military leadership should have had the balls to argue for what needed to be done, including being truthful about what was happening, a case where the troops should not have been handcuffed with restrictive ROE, and so on.
Neither Washington D.C., nor the Military Leadership, wanted to do everything they could do to win. We did not learn from Vietnam, Somalia, etc.
Bin Ladin got his inspiration and courage from our retreat from Somalia, he saw we had no stomach for a protracted fight. And here we are.
I feel like we were stuck there until we found Bin Laden. So just the last ten years have been a failure. Which isn’t surprising. O’Biden-Bama have been repeatedly promising to withdraw for the last decade.
Where’s Lars? Shouldn’t he be telling all “the rubes” that ‘Stan falling to the Taliban was all part of The Left’s Master Plan for a Better Tomorrow. Maybe the Taliban will go with Socialism to get Bernie, AOC, and Da Kommie-sar to support their every move.
Major Moonbat likely can’t find a way to first shit his pants over Donald trump and blame it all on him!
E4-much as I respect you, if you beetlejuiced that thing into an appearance here, I swear you will feel all the wrath I am desperately trying to contain. Okay, not all. I’ll save -most- of it for that rat-with-wings. The vaunted HOI will add pages.
Fire for effect, Mom! Expend everything!
Lars is probably deployed on the ground there.
He once tackled a terrorist single handedly (true story) in Iraq. So they probably recalled him to employ his lethality in Kabul.
The guy on Fox says Biden doesn’t know if he’s in the White House or the Waffle House. Hiding out at Camp David, actually. Might meet the press in a few days!! And the top three generals recommended against this. How many things can he screw up in seven months? Who is running this Government?
My bet is that he’s taking instructions from B. Hussein 0bama himself and the Clintons.
Yup. Former Dear Leader went to bed while an ambassador is being murdered. Uncle Joe goes dark.
Ch47s eras apart. Many many many thousand Americans Service members killed and maimed. For what? POTUS in hull defilade. In my 80 years I’ve never seen such shit.
The bird in the first photo is a Marine CH-46. The second one is a CH-47.
I saw a short news video today of Taliban guys letting detainees out through an ECP at a DFIP that I worked out of over 10 years ago. Feels surreal.
Where in the fuck is that guy that’s supposed to be President? On vacation and radio silent. Drooling in his tapioca waiting for Matlock to come on. Worthless fucker. Nothing from Joe. Nothing from Kamala. Press secretary on vacation off the net. Zero fucks given by the 5 sided puzzle palace. America. Fuck yeah.
Bite me is going to deflect this with more
Lock downs because of the cold virus
Fucking unreal shit but I saw it coming
Coming from an administration that would offer apologies to Tokyo on December 8th of 1941.
Usual massive failure of US intelligence to have a fucking clue, or for those who actually have a clue, to get real APOLITICAL assessments through the politicized bureaucracy. Forget defunding the police, we need massive purges in all the big intel agencies… but then we would need leaders who would listen to facts and conclusions rather than demanding political spin.
I fear for about 3.5 weeks from now. Muzzies love anniversaries and 9/11 is the 20th, a biggie. By our leaders laying down and playing dead we are not only giving them a tremendous morale shot in the arm, but likely emboldening them to do whatever they want.
Well almost half of my life has been spent….
Well 4/5ths of it almost has involved
That shithole
My dad was sent close by their in the 80s
Me for a few weeks in 2009 altogether
It was all for nothing
What a feeling
Now I understand
My uncles and dad when
Their sacrifices went to the crapper
Just received this about friends’ parents in Kabul. Forwarded to me to ask for prayers because that is all they have left. The family tried to contact the State Department here, no help to be had. Told to continue to Shelter-in-place.
…in hiding. Gunfire and bombs all around. Everyone is trying to hide in their homes. The Taliban are taking women and slaughtering everyone who resists them. They are looking for foreigners and will kill all foreigners and anyone who worked with them in the past 20 years. Pray for us
Received in the States about 6pm CST, about 4am in Kabul? Think Biden or anyone in the media cares? They stayed, they are medical and missionaries, because they were told by the Biden administration they had time-weeks or months.
The slaughter has begun. They are emulating their Prophets’ tactics of conquest in the name of The Religion of Peace. I hate this is happening but maybe it was necessary to wake people up to the true nature of our enemies. WHEN we end up going back- weeks, months or years from now, and probably after they have done something horrific here, we need to remember this. Not an example of 1,000 or more years ago, but right here and now in the 21st Century. ISIS did it. Book Haram does it. They ALL do it, given the chance.
From orbit, the only way to be sure.
“I hate this is happening but maybe it was necessary to wake people up to the true nature of our enemies. ”
I agree OAM, but that’ll only happen if the media cover it.. and seeing as they’re more of a state apparatus than Pravda, that is highly unlikely. Their “heros” came up with this stellar withdrawal plan, and they love them some muzzies, so we’ll never hear the truth from the “mainstream” media..
I’ve had people from my unit and sister units go for a tour in Afghanistan. Mostly during the “Spring Fighting Season.” This term emerged to label a trend for an uptick in fighting when the weather warmed up every spring.
To a man/woman, they all shook their heads and said that Afghanistan was a total mess. When I asked for clarification, they said the Western-style government that was put in place was corrupt and it trickled down with everybody in positions of Afghan leadership.
A select few got fat and happy hiding behind the US skirt of protection while the rest of the country was a distant second. The skimming of program money off the top was staggering.
Just for thought–
The US never had sound strategy in AF 2002-2004. Not perfect, but no strategy ever is.
That strategy was counter terrorism.
Then the darlings of the left in the US demanded “more” in AF where “the good fight is”.
So the strategy shifted to “counter insurgency”.
The strategy was laughable, but DC bought it and embarked us on that path.
Nobody in DC, nobody with a service Academy degree, and no one in journalism appears to have learned a damn thing from the British in Malaya–the only successful counter insurgency campaign fought by a Western nation (although the Sri Lankan campaign is also instructive).
Now what did they do different than we did?
Well, the British simply controlled the food. All of it. For everyone.
They never had more than a handful of soldiers in Malaya for this and succeeded.
The stomach – not hearts and minds – is the key to success.
But there is no way the oh so woke crowd in DC has any will to win.
Today is August 16.
Life imitates Elvis.
MREs for thought.
This got by most Americans back in 2001.
But not the world.
Europe cringed. Middle East was outraged.
When George Bush uttered 1 word.
CRUSADE.
cru·sade
/kro͞oˈsād/
noun: Crusade; plural noun: Crusades
1.
each of a series of medieval military expeditions made by Europeans to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries.
The Taliban, and everyone speaking languages we never know,
never forgot that 1 word.
I’ll only add, that when Bush doubled down 1 year later,
with “God told me to” invade Iraq
(again, mostly missed by Americans)
as far as the Taliban and many others in the Middle East,
the HOLY WAR was ON.
UGH.
https://www.google.com/search?q=George+Bush+crusade
MD, it’s been quite clear that, as you say “the holy war was on” for centuries, even before the crusades. the koran makes that clear. blaming bushes comments for the situation is just silly, the taliban and other muslims didn’t suddenly decide the wanted to rule the world after he said that.
Biden’s non-reaction to this disaster brings to mind Former Dear Leader’s tone deaf dealing with Benghazi. That douchebag WENT TO BED while an ambassador was bing murdered, then headed off to a fundraiser THE NEXT MORNING!
Can’t wait to hear what Biden says finally.
Like political father, like political son.
Oh, and let’s not forget Pelosi’s reaction. That Biden is to be COMMENDED for Afghanistan!
How deluded can you get?!
https://dailycaller.com/2021/08/15/nancy-pelosi-commends-joe-biden-taliban-advance-kabul/
Biden is huddling with his cabinet as we speak.
They are discussing labels and parsing of words.
i.e. It is not an ‘evacuation,’ it is a ‘highly coordinated, strategic withdrawal.’
It’s the very definition of “Clusterfuck” with accompanying video. There is no way anyone can spin this to look good. Joe sold out and left every American contractor, every American civilian, every American citizen in Afghanistan to fend for themselves. He needs to be held accountable, as does every star-wearing, gotta-be-woke general officer in the pentagon, the chiefs of staff, and that clown Milley. This is not how we operate. A platoon of fucking boy scouts could’ve done better.
Spot on SFC, but we all know damn well that NONE of them will be held accountable. If we had a free and effective press, maybe, but with the current Pravda..
Those 5000 newly deployed servicemen will be returning home shortly – word on the street is that most of them have not completed the necessary “Extremism Within the Ranks” online interactive training sessions.
It’s like a thought I had when my dog broke free and ran around like a crazy person into the street, not being mindful of cars. Drunken with new freedom, but not knowing what to do with it. Soon to return to me for the leash.
There are those that just can’t handle freedom. Some fail to grasp it.
It’s like the Marine said in “Full Metal Jacket” — “They’d rather be alive than free, I guess, you know. Poor, dumb bastards.”
Another Afghan vet here (OEF II, 2003.) I honestly don’t feel as bad about this as many of you appear to. OEF was never about “saving” Afghanistan in the way that the Vietnam war was about “saving” South Vietnam. As I’ve said before, it seems to me like we achieved everything that military power could achieve by 2004 or so. The Taliban was smashed in the big cities, infrastructure being rebuilt, the terrorists in their camps were pretty much gone and the ones who were left spent more time moving from place to place and worrying about whether they would get a hellfire missile up their ass from a passing drone than they did planning terror attacks. That’s the point at which we should have told the Afghanis “OK, it’s your country now” and pulled most of our combat troops out. Unfortunately, that old bugaboo, “Mission creep” took over and pretty soon our mission was to “build a stable nation” – something that Afghanistan hasn’t been for decades. It’s also something that guns and bombs can’t really do. When are military planners going to realize that the whole world is not Western Europe and “The Marshall Plan” will not work on 3rd world tribal bands? The Marshall Plan worked in Europe because Europe was a stable, functioning civilized society BEFORE WWII and the Europeans WANTED a stable and civilized society. Afghanistan has never really been a stable or civilized nation – it’s always been a collection of isolated tribes under the influence of this or that local strongman. Yes, Afghanistan has had “functional” national governments before, but those government’s “functioned” because the bureaucrats in Kabul were smart enough to let the local warlords do their thing, as long as they paid their taxes. Afghanistan is never going to be Germany or Belguim, at least not in the lifetime of anybody on planet earth today. I regret the blood and treasure that’s been lost trying to turn Afghanistan into a modern nation – that was a fool’s errand. But I don’t regret serving there and I don’t think our initial invasion/occupation… Read more »
Response to Martinjmpr, August 16, 2021, Part 1A Martinjmpr: I honestly don’t feel as bad about this as many of you appear to. OEF was never about “saving” Afghanistan in the way that the Vietnam war was about “saving” South Vietnam. I followed the line of argument, and reasoning, for going into Afghanistan in the first place. Out of the numerous statements that were presented, the need to change the way they do things was needed if we were to eradicate the kind of terrorism and motivation that would drive people to fly airplanes into buildings. It was known, long before the September 11, 2001, attacks, that the terrorists wanted the whole world to be Islam. They made statements to that effect. One of the examples of this is the statement that Peter Bergen received when he interviewed Al-Qaeda. It has been a statement made, throughout that region, not just before then, but also since then… That their ultimate objective was to convert the whole world to Islam. As for saving South Vietnam, one main explanation for that was to halt the advance of Communism. As with the terrorists of today, Communists have a long-term objective of spreading communism throughout the world. The Chinese Communist Party is running on such a plan, one made in the middle of the 20th Century. South Vietnam, and other nations that were under the threat of communism, had to be saved from Communism. That wasn’t accomplished in Vietnam, but our involvement there had an impact against the spread of Communism in Asia. Martinjmpr: As I’ve said before, it seems to me like we achieved everything that military power could achieve by 2004 or so. The Taliban was smashed in the big cities, infrastructure being rebuilt, the terrorists in their camps were pretty much gone and the ones who were left spent more time moving from place to place and worrying about whether they would get a hellfire missile up their ass from a passing drone than they did planning terror attacks. By the middle of 2002, it became evident that Afghanistan was going to… Read more »
Response to Martinjmpr, August 16, 2021, Part 2A Martinjmpr: Yes, Afghanistan has had “functional” national governments before, but those government’s “functioned” because the bureaucrats in Kabul were smart enough to let the local warlords do their thing, as long as they paid their taxes. Which means, there was a way that this could have been managed that would have returned them to these prior conditions. Even this arrangement would have been better than the arrangement that they just entered. Martinjmpr: Afghanistan is never going to be Germany or Belguim, at least not in the lifetime of anybody on planet earth today. However, according to the Taliban, the United States and the rest of the world will eventually be Islam. Folks that believe what you believe will act out that belief and bring themselves away from the research, solution, and action needed to address this threat. Since the Taliban and others have the mindset they will eventually defeat Western Civilization, guess what? The next September 11 style attack will not be a question of “if” but “when.” Martinjmpr: I regret the blood and treasure that’s been lost trying to turn Afghanistan into a modern nation — that was a fool’s errand. No, it wasn’t a fool’s errand. It’s an action that should have been taken. It was on the upper brass that was in Afghanistan, as well as government civilians, government commissioned researchers, federal politicians, etc., to know what they were changing to change it, to communicate those changes no matter how politically inconvenient, and to fight to get those policies implemented. Not making the attempt, that you describe as a “fools errand” would have been a fool’s errand. Pulling out in the 2000s, after accomplishing the objectives you and others said we should have stuck to, would have resulted in the Taliban taking Afghanistan back in the 2000s. Again, retaking Afghanistan was just a part of their plan. It’s not their “final objective”. It’s just a milestone. They have a bigger fish to fry, which includes America’s downfall and conversion into an Islamic nation. Had they taken Afghanistan over in… Read more »
This is what happens when we don’t have a cogent and consistent strategy. Strategies have three components: Ends, Ways, and Means. This is all weighed against the Risk.
What was our strategic end state in Afghanistan- Were we building a nation, or denying a terrorist safe haven?
What were our ways? Were we propping up the Afghan security forces so they could do it or were we maintaining forward bases so we could periodically ‘mow the grass’ ourselves when the Taliban or other groups got too powerful?
What were the Means? How much blood and treasure are we willing to spend? One of the key reasons the Afghan Army crumbled so quickly (in addition to low morale and not wanting to die) was that they ran out of food and fuel and couldn’t maintain their equipment. In other words, yet another reminder that amateurs talk tactics, but professionals talk logistics.
Finally, Risk. What happens if our strategy fails- what do we lose?
Counterintuitively you also have to consider what happens if your strategy succeeds- you are trying to change the security environment, so what will your adversaries do about that. As an example, no one in 2002 really thought about what would happen if we were able to drive the Taliban and Al Qaeda out. Once again, in 2003, no one really thought about what would happen if we toppled Saddam. Later it was Qaddafi, and so on…
Video in a tweet on the Al Gore interweb shows Afghan’s riding on a taxiing C-17 fuselage above the main landing gear. C-17 is out of Joint Base Lewis-McChord.
Don’t know if this is the same C-17 in another tweeted video where “objects” are falling off as the plane flies overhead. McChord has the 62nd Airlift Wing and the 446th Airlift Wing as the USAF Reserve partner.
Read elsewhere the US Ambassador has flown out of the country while the British Ambassador has remained behind to personally fill out visas for those fleeing the shit sandwich this has become.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42007/apache-helicopters-chase-afghans-swarming-a-c-17-on-kabul-airports-runway
Biden’s ambassador tucks tails and runs while the Brit one shows some tailbone and integrity.
Taliban taking over Most of Afghanistan was inevitable. We have not had a winning strategy there for over a decade.
However, the blame for the breathtaking speed the Taliban has captured Afghanistan and even captured areas they didn’t control when we entered Afghanistan, will fall on both Biden and Trump. Mostly Biden.
Given that Biden led the faction that convinced Obama to take up his “we are not here to nation build” strategy…focusing instead on a an approach that prevented any actual progress in transitioning to a functional Afghan government or society. Biden advocated and Obama adopted a strategy that had no hope of winning. No hope of ending the war. No hope of sustainable progress.
Body counts don’t win wars.
And then when Biden had executive responsibility for the quagmire his strategy left us in he quickly pulled out of Afghanistan without proper preparation or handover of capacity to the Afghan forces and having never built or even allowing to be built any partnership between the government of Afghanistan and other clear stakeholders…like China, and Iran,..leaving the Taliban to immediately take the initiative to attempt to forge those partnerships.
Trump will be blamed for his fucking idiotic 2020 agreement with the Taliban that undermined any hope of resiliency for the government of Afghanistan…he will also be blamed for his last minute troop withdrawal orders when he lost the election. Leaving insufficient troops to do an effective handover.
I think Obama, Biden, and Trump we’re all incompetent in managing the war in Afghanistan.
But our strategy was terrible anyway. We knew it was terrible. Anyone who served there in the last decade knows we were not there to win. We were just keeping the Taliban at bay with no real progress or willingness to commit the resources necessary to actually stabilize the nation.
We weren’t even willing to build the partnerships necessary.
We have not had an effective strategy in Afghanistan since Petreus..
I’ll agree on a terrible game plan
I’m just glad it’s finally over with
And I’m not surprised at the speed
Of the take over
On the one hand, I’ll agree it’s a little unfair to lay the blame for this squarely on Biden, since there were errors aplenty and lots of blame to appoprtion.
OTOH, one of the job requirements of The Big Chair is that you get blamed when shit happens on your watch, whether it’s your “fault” or not.
That burden is built into the job, fair or not, and everybody who campaigns for the presidency knows it.
“everybody who campaigns for the presidency knows it.”
Well, everyone whos coherent and self aware does.. I’m not at all convinced that old dementia joe meets that standard..
Afghanistan didn’t even have a strategy for Afghanistan.
On the other hand, there’s no reason to think the Taliban will be any more successful than we were in suppressing the warlords or stifling insurrections nation wide.
The Afghan national pastime of of shooting people you don’t like isn’t going to end with a Taliban takeover, it’s just going to mean a different group of people to shoot.
So, as the challenge becomes evacuating all the Afghan translators, workers and fixers on whom the US relied and who now face Taliban retribution – this question is paramount: Would they tend to vote Republican or Democrat?
Tip: Don’t wear that MAGA hat when applying for a visa. You’re better off coming through the Southern border passing yourself off as Mexican or Guatemalan. You’d get a free ticket to anywhere in the heart of the country.
By now, most of you have seen that photo the Biden puppet masters put out, showing Joe sitting at a large conference table, by himself, at Camp David. The internet wags have figured out the photo is from before last March, as the wall clocks show the difference in time between London and Moscow as three hours, whereas the present time difference is two hours, due to a change of daylight savings time in Moscow effective last March. So, Gropey’s Ho’s/puppeteers can’t even show a legit photo to the media.
Correction: The DST change was in England, where 1 hour was added to GMT. Russia does not have daylight savings time anymore, it was ended several years ago. Thus, on March 28, 2021 the difference in time between London and Moscow changed from three hours to two hours.
Just confirmed it with my own eyes. The photo shows London time at 1600 hours and Moscow time at 1900 hours, a three hour difference which hasn’t been in effect since March 28th.
There was only one strategy that would ever have possibly worked in Afghanistan and we lack the will to use such a strategy these days.
We were attacked by people in the nation of Afghanistan, that they didn’t wear traditional uniforms should have been of no concern.
You firebomb the cities, the farmlands and blow up every piece of infrastructure that exists around the nation limited as that was…if they still refuse to surrender and give up who we were seeking we burn it all and leave a smoking ruin smelling of dead flesh and burnt animals…
Oderint Dum Metuant.
Or don’t go at all, because without the fortitude to conduct the preceding there is only one outcome, leaving it as we found it with the Taliban firmly in charge except they are now armed with weapons we’ve left behind.
That’s an outcome that should be a complete and total embarrassment to our government, it won’t be but it should be…
There was no plan, there was never a plan, and if there was a plan it was clear that plan was fucked after week 1 because we changed nothing, solved nothing and killed a bunch of people along the way to get a zero sum outcome.
Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden the four horsemen of the apocalypse writ large as nothing more than Amateurs In Chief.
Yes, if we had gone Roman Army on their asses, we wouldn’t be seeing this debacle on our TV sets. I like to say that you can win most any war if your nation has the resources and is willing to fill enough body bags and enemy graves. The North Vietnamese proved it again in 1975. We won WWII in both Europe and Japan because we killed/captured so many of their people and military forces that they conceded defeat and begged for peace. In A-stan we captured many of their leaders, but what did we do–turned them loose after years at GitMo. Traded five for that waste of skin, Bergboi. Now they are bringing them back to A-stan from Qatar.
Two more current news articles. At least to me.
No. 1
Lucas Tomlinson
@LucasFoxNews
·
5h
All U.S. evacuation flights suspended in Kabul, U.S. officials confirm.
Afghans desperate to escape the Taliban takeover have flooded the runway after breaching airport walls.
Asked how long U.S. can stay in Kabul, official says “I think this all ends in the next three days.”
No. 2
The US military has suspended air operations at the Kabul airport while troops try to clear the airfield of Afghans who flooded the tarmac, per @barbarastarrcnn
. Biden’s national security advisers have made clear this a.m. they don’t consider the airport secure right now.
Other reports have said that because the Afghans wanting to leave breached the airport security, they are running rampant over the airfield and have FOD’d the runway. Also, US soldiers shot and killed two armed Afghans in self-defense. Taliban is now taking potshots at departing aircraft.
IF and that is a big if, we get the civilians out, the last to leave will be the security forces, as always. I fear when the Taliban sees them trying to leave if they are able, they will rush the airport and kill as many as possible. In that scenario, the gunfight will greatly diminish the ability to withdraw.
God be with our people and especially our troops there. the hands of time are not moving in our favor I fear.
This is going from FUBAR to DEFDUMB LEVEL 24: Resident “Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f*** things up” Xiden’s Pooppant Party Redux.
Its time for reduction of perimeter’s surrounding area a mile out to complete rubble via back-to-back B-52 runs, then AC-130 protection of the newly minted no-mans land.
Americans only. Fk these losers that won’t fight for themselves.
Ahhhh. So THIS was the plan. Leave $$ billions in military technology and hardware for the Chicoms and Russians to fight among themselves to retrieve from the Taliban and Iranians. Looks like their investment in Biden has paid off beautifully.
You are overstating the value of that equipment to China and Russia.
It has much more value to the Taliban…maybe Iran…maybe.
Tech was not left intact in the vehicles or buildings.
And any sensitive tech would have been taken or destroye.
The Taliban will repurpose the vehicles. Enjoy the generators and air conditioning and fans…over indulge on energy drinks and MREs…and still a bunch of bunks.
What they likely captured of more value is the stuff that had been handed over the the Afghan military to develop their capacity over the years. Computers, weapons, some aircraft, radios…. Etc…
But most of that would have been scoured to have little intelligence value and would.not have been cutting edge tech.
They don’t know shit from tar when it comes to keeping things maintained, my bet is that it’ll all be JUNK in less than six months.
Looking at the many photos coming out of Kabul I notice that no one is wearing a mask.
Just an observation….
The women are now.
Touche…
Yeah, it is a god damn libertarian paradise…
You should move there.
Most of us would love to buy you a one way ticket there, if you’re as good as you claim to be at Civil Affairs…
Maybe he could be the new chief of police.
Lars really, really wants to get his gestapo on. Think the pedoislamists would hire him?
At lease the pullout didn’t interfere with Pride Month…
Tweet:
U.S. Embassy Kabul @USEmbassyKabul
·
Jun 2
The month of June is recognized as (LGBTI) Pride Month. The United States respects the dignity & equality of LGBTI people & celebrates their contributions to the society. We remain committed to supporting civil rights of minorities, including LGBTI persons. #Pride2021 #PrideMonth
Nobody celebrates Pride Month like the Taliban does. Except maybe ISIS.
Image inside a C-17 that departed Kabul:
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Satellite image of Kabul airport chaos:
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