You’re Not a Veteran if You Deserted Boot Camp

| May 26, 2021

According to an article posted by Reason.com, a Pennsylvania court decided that a man is not a veteran and not entitled to veteran benefits because he deserted boot camp.

The question of ‘what qualifies someone as being a veteran?’ has long been a debate.  It’s like adult diapers – it depends.  It depends on who is establishing the criteria.  Some say 180 days of active duty, but what if someone is wounded and discharged before 180 days.  What if a reservist does boot camp, leaves active duty and is discharged to a drilling reserve status.  Marines require completion of boot camp to earn the title ‘Marine’ but if they fall short and are discharged are they a veteran but just not a Marine?

We wrote about Chris Crawford here.

Chris Crawford

If You Deserted While Still in Boot Camp, You’re Not a “Veteran”

So holds a Pennsylvania court, affirming a conviction for fraudulently obtaining money by claims of veteran status.

EUGENE VOLOKH – 5.24.2021

In Commonwealth v. Crawford, decided last week by the Pennsylvania intermediate appellate court (in an opinion by Judge Pellegrini, joined by Judges Murray and McLaughlin),

Christopher Michael Crawford … enlisted with the United States Army in 2007. Within three months of his enlistment, Crawford had gone AWOL from boot camp and was classified as a deserter without having completed his training.

Crawford surrendered himself to military authorities on November 9, 2007, and was discharged on other than honorable conditions at that time. According to the discharge papers that Crawford signed, the lack of an honorable discharge meant that he could be deprived of “rights and benefits as a veteran under both federal and state law.” The testimony of the Director of Veterans Affairs in Lackawanna County (David Eisele) established that these discharge conditions would relegate Crawford to the status of a civilian who would not be entitled to join any American Legion posts….

Nonetheless, Crawford joined an American Legion post, apparently telling them “that he was a veteran of the Iraq War and that he had received a Purple Heart for sustaining a brain injury from an explosive device. Crawford also regularly wore a cap affixed with badges and pins which are only conferred upon military veterans for exploits that Crawford had never achieved. These unearned decorations included a Combat Infantryman Badge and a 10th Mountain Division pin.”

He later became a post finance officer, and ended up using his position “to make purchases and withdrawals [using the post’s debit cards] totaling over $17,000 for purposes that did not at all relate to the Post. For example, some of the charges on the debit cards included payments for bars, hotels, restaurants, casinos and flights to Florida.” As a result, he was prosecuted based in part on a Pennsylvania statute, 18 Pa. Cons. Stats. § 6701(b), which provides,

A person commits a misdemeanor of the third degree if, with intent to obtain money, property or other benefit, the person fraudulently holds himself out to be any of the following:

(1) A member or veteran of any branch of the armed forces of the United States or of any of the several states.

(2) The recipient of any decoration or medal authorized by the Congress of the United States for the armed forces of the United States or any of the service medals or any decoration awarded to members of the armed forces of the United States or of any of the several states.

The court concluded that the statute clearly applied to Crawford.

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President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neanderthal B Woodman Domestic Violent Extremist SuperStraight

Bury him under the prison, with sunshine every other Tuesday.

Face down, ass up. Like a Bicycle Rack.

SidneyBroadshead

Billy Connolly
BBC | Parkinson (February 15, 1975)
The wife joke

Get him the long tour in the Stone Motel.

KoB

NO, this POS, Christopher Michael Crawford, is NOT a Veteran. He is, however, a lying, cheating, embellishing POS that I hope will spend many a long night as the Bitch of Cell Block C, sampling man meat sammiches with the “Special Sauce”. I guess desertion in time of war no longer calls for the execution by hanging from the neck till dead. Too bad, I have some nice hemp rope that I’d donate. This POS is NOT worthy of a firing squad.

What’s with these AL Posts and DoD HR folks that will not do a basic background check on these POSes? And then put these dirtbags in a position where they have access to funds? Sheesh!

The Stranger

Which is why this is my favorite of the old-school Army publications:

https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/procedure_june-1944.pdf

My favorite sentence is what occurs upon the pronouncement that the prisoner is dead:

“Upon the pronouncement of the death of the prisoner, the escort, with the band playing a lively air, will return to the parade ground and be dismissed.”

The Engineer in me also appreciates the included plans for the construction of the gallows. A very thoughtful touch, to be sure. If ‘tis to be done, let it be done right!

Anonymous

Douchetard.

Old tanker

A while back I went and did some research on the Vet status for Reservists. A buddy had asked about it and I had no idea. According to what I found a few years ago on the DOD website was pretty simple, A reservist with less 180 consecutive days active duty but still in good standing does attain Veteran status after the completion of 6 years of reserve duty. That is six “good years” (enough “points”, 50+, for a good year) of active reserve not inactive (non drilling) years. You can believe the Army at least is very very good at making sure a reservist does not get 180 days of active duty. I have heard of a reservist getting 170 days then another set of orders a week later for another 90 days with a week or weekend break in service by order dates to avoid it. There is also some kind of status that goes with more than 90 days of continuous active duty as well because the Army makes sure a reservist’s schools are no more than 89 days long. I do not know why.

Another point I found out is that “grey era” reservists who have 20 or more “good years” get a red retired ID card when they go to retired status. At the time they qualify for their reduced retired pay status and tricare at age 60 a regular “blue” ID card is issued and the orders to full retired status also advise that they are to change the signature block on “official correspondence” from USAR (ret) to USA (ret). They are also given a nice certificate suitable for framing that they are retired in honorable status. That at least is good enough for the VA to allow them to qualify for a VA loan.

Mason

USAFR is also pretty good about keeping you from crossing that 180 day line. They were looking for volunteers to augment the Security Forces. Part of the sales pitch was, “The length of the orders will not exceed 179 days.” Gee thanks.

Martinjmpr

Once you have served on active duty for 180 days they have to give you a DD-214 upon separation.

That’s why I have 5 DD-214’s. 😉

Martinjmpr

Another point I found out is that “grey era” reservists who have 20 or more “good years” get a red retired ID card when they go to retired status. At the time they qualify for their reduced retired pay status and tricare at age 60 a regular “blue” ID card is issued and the orders to full retired status also advise that they are to change the signature block on “official correspondence” from USAR (ret) to USA (ret). They are also given a nice certificate suitable for framing that they are retired in honorable status. That at least is good enough for the VA to allow them to qualify for a VA loan.

I got my retirement certificate when I retired from the NG in 2005. I’m “gray area” until this coming December.

Gray area retirees get full PX/Commissary privileges and can use other facilities on military installations including Space A travel. They just don’t get any pay or medical benefits.

Back in the old days I remember hearing that if a soldier only served on “active duty for training” (IOW basic training and AIT) and was never mobilized or deployed, they are not considered to be a “veteran” for purposes of veteran’s benefits even if they serve 20 years. I don’t know if that was actually true or if it was just barracks-room scuttlebutt.

In any case, once the Reserve Components started getting activated and mobilized regularly (starting with Desert Shield) I think the DoD changed their policies.

Besides that, a Guardsman or Reservist with 20 years who NEVER served on active duty was a rare thing even back then. It wasn’t unheard of, but it wasn’t common either.

ChipNASA

I’m right behind you in the Grey area. I can’t file until next year at 59 1/2. In addition, the NEW ID cards will be like the current Common Access Cards (whip out your CAC!!!) in the future. I think that was addressed here. As far as the Reserves, if you have good years and it’s almost impossible NOT to get active duty time these days (Yes post DS/DS, I was Active 1988 then Reserve then so.) and not get shown the door. The olden days of “Two days a month and Two weeks in the Summer” are LONG gone and the Ops tempo leave that as a MINIMIUM requirements, with reality being that you are generally afforded the opportunity to do a WHOLE LOT more days in the Reserves than back in the day (See DC Guard DOODS sleeping in the parking garages, but I digress.) The whole 179 days this is also, you have to get an active duty ID (Green in the old days, but now Actie Duty CAC) card and all the benefits that go with it. You have to be registered in DEERS I believe and also, I think you are afforded BAH/BAQ and a BUNCH of other Active duty requirements like medical and such and dependent care that they (DOD/Reserves etc) just don’t want to foot the bill for unless absolutely necessary for your rank and manning slot and AFSC/MOS to augment the active forces. I’ve been out for 13 years now so I can’t speak to the most recent times BUT I don’t know that it’s changed much and it’s all about the $$$. When I got out, I was drilling as an E-8 (because there’s NO FUCKING WAY) two weeks a year and 2 to 3 weekends a month, to get all the work that needed to be done and training schedules and pergormance evaluations and top NCO and Command Stafff meetings not on the retular Reserve weekend AND prep for exercises AND IG/ORI inspections etc. So you get the picture, AND we also had to swap weekends a LOT as our… Read more »

Daisy Cutter

Yeah, Capital guard duty may be the new normal.

Mike B USAF Retired

I left AD and went into the Air Force Reserves, my first two years I was a Tradional Reservist, my second two years I was a Reserve Bum.

I was averaging 5 days a week, every week for two years. I would do my Annual Tour (AT) as soon as I got it, then do Active Duty Special (ADS) days, then move on to Man-Power Assist (MPA) days, with some Active Duty for Training (ADT) days thrown in. I was on the hook for any/all TDYs that nobody wanted within my squadron and our sister squadron. I also backfilled Active Duty units, like when I did 120 days with the 71st RQS in Kuwait. After two years as a Reserve Bum, I became an Air Reserve Technician.

When I was medically retired in 2008, my points summary had me at 16 1/2 years of AD points. 10 years prior AD, and 6 1/2 years of AD time accumulated during my 12 years 8 months in the Reserves.

I qualified for the Blue Retiree Card, right out the gate, due to being medically retired due to an medical issue that occurred while activated for GWOT. First Medicare board in 2003 found me Medically Fit, Returned to Duty. As the condition worsened, I was recalled to AD and boarded again, and found Medcially Unfit for Continued Military Service, and retired with a 100% Disabilty, with an AD retirement, and benefits.

The Reserves of the old days, of 1 weekend each month, and 2 weeks each year, are long gone. As soon as 9-11 happened, we were put on orders by 19 Sep, by 29 Sep our Presidential Activation Orders came down, a year later our Activation was extended for a second year.

Anonymous

As has been said about modern RC duty: “One weekend a month, my ass!”

Martinjmpr

I can’t remember if it was Jonn or Hondo that referred to the modern-day Reserves and Guard as “Military Kelly Temps.”

That’s often what they are, expected to fulfill active duty requirements without getting active duty benefits.

Jason

Along the lines of having the 180 days continous service, my orders were always for 179 days, then another set for 179 days.

Daisy Cutter

Everyone wants to be a veteran until it comes to doing the things to qualify as a veteran.

Crawford is a veteran of BS.

Thunderstixx

But his ugly ass will be a great part of the upcoming Friday Night Gameboy edition at the nearest crowbar hotel…
And he’ll learn to like Tiny, Bubba and the rest of the boys in the cell wing !!!
Couldn’t happen to a better puke !!!

Slow Joe

But, think of all the exploits he would have accomplished if he had finished Basic Training!!!

It is not his fault his Drill Sergeants were mean to him and made him do a lot of demeaning exercises.

The guy would have been a great Soldier. He would have certainly earned all those awards. So it is understandable he decided to wear them as evidence of his potential.

Martinjmpr

I won’t waste any electrons on dirtbag Crawford. After all, dirtbags gonna dirtbag, that’s why we call them dirtbags.

But the Magnifying Glass of Justice needs to be focused on the leadership at that AL post who not only allowed Crawford to join, but allowed him to move into a position where he was in charge of the posts finances.

IMO, THOSE are the people who needs to be called to account for themselves.

Call it my broken record/soapbox issue if you want but the VFW and AL are constantly crying about their declining membership numbers and trying to hustle young veterans into joining.

Well, when you run clown shows like this one in Pennsylvania, what do you expect? You think anyone with an ounce of self-respect wants to join an organization that is open to posers, embellishers, liars and outright frauds like this?

I’d be willing to bet that in my lifetime (I’m 59 now) we will see first the merging of the AL and VFW, and ultimately the end of those organizations. They simply serve no purpose in modern-day America other than the bolster the lies and fakery of wannabe veterans.

CPO Sharkey

Just wait till the Sec Def gets wind of this poor bootcamp deserter. He will be retro promoted to E-9, selected for a “Diversity “ representative position and lecture the troops about “ enemy good” doctrine.

Of course there will be the 100% disability due to the “shock and awe” of bootcamp and his depression because he didn’t get a participation award.

Green Thumb

I imagine SMA Grinston is proud of him.

rgr769

Naw, his skin is the wrong color and he doesn’t have a degree in gender studies and/or critical race theory.

tshe

This may be centered around equity.

If other people have medals that were awarded and you do not, you gotta do what you gotta do to even things out.

Green Thumb

I am sure All-Points Logistics might have a problem with this…..

As a matter of fact, I can see he False Commander “Phony” Phil Monkress (CEO of All-Points Logistics) getting Lori Benton spun up to appeal this decision.

The implications for All-Points Logistics on many levels are enormous.

Planet Ord

If you want to wear 10th Mountain stuff, you have to have done 10th Mountain things. Same same with infantry stuff. Prick..

Skippy

This is crazy but in 2006 we had a turd
With the last name of Crawford who completed a 88M
School at lost in the woods who went AWOL
and never showed up at his unit in Georgia
I wonder if this turd is him
I did basic at fort sill and two AIT’s one at Knox 19D and Lost in the woods. and this turds name was the mia after the
88M school
I can’t forget having to do a sworn statement my first week
At Knox over the MIA turd

Thunderstixx

As a Father of a seriously Disabled American Veteran with VA issues of a serious depth of fucked up…..
I simply cannot stress just how deep my hatred goes for this skid mark, cockholster mouth, dingle ball cocksucker…..

Anonymous

This just in… Left/libtards’ latest: Evil white man improperly claimed sainted victimhood by going to ‘Nam, getting arms/legs blown off and being called a “baby killer” and/or spit on when they came back to keep wimmens and/or minorities down!

“The White Men Who Want to be Victims,” by Chris Lehmann, The New Republic, 21 May 2021
https://newrepublic.com/article/162472/white-men-wanted-victims-culture-wars-joseph-darda-review