PTSD Treatment?
FDA-regulated study shows promise for using marijuana to treat veterans with PTSD
Todd South
The first FDA-regulated, placebo-controlled, double-blind study on smoked cannabis among veterans with diagnosed PTSD revealed improvements among those receiving doses with higher levels of THC, an active component in the herbal drug.
Published March 17 in the journal PLOS ONE, the peer-reviewed paper compares results of PTSD treatment in three cannabis combinations, as well as a placebo control group.
The study, conducted by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, or MAPS, indicated levels of improvement among participants using smoked cannabis blends with a 9 percent THC concentration. Improvements were also found using samples containing 11 percent CBD, as well as a sample containing 8 percent THC and 8 percent CBD. A fourth group, which also reported improvements, used a placebo.
THC, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, is the intoxicating, or psychoactive, ingredient of cannabis strains that produce the euphoric “high” effect. CBD, or cannabidiol, is one of the non-intoxicating cannabinoids in the cannabis plant. CBD-only products have been widely adopted in multiple states for medical, therapeutic and recreational uses.
Promising treatments should be pursued. Read the entire article here: Military Times
Category: It's science!, Veteran Health Care
Big fan of the potential here. Primary reason, we know all current psych meds to treat don’t cure and at best mask symptoms. Those meds work on the same systems that are already damaged. Also, the meds are a temporary alleviation, if they work, and research shows they may be permanently shutting down the body’s ability to make or regulate neurotransmitters. CBD, THC and other cannibinoid compounds work/interact on different principles. Prescribing psych meds for anxiety or depression is like trying to fix a broken leg by walking on it.
But, since cannibis is a Schedule I, how can there be an FDA study?
I’m wid you OAM, we need to try a more natural approach and if it helps, use it. It’s obvious that playing load ’em Larry with chemicals isn’t working. Look at some of the old pictures of Apothecary Stores from the 1800s and you will see a big Pot Leaf painted on the front of the store or in the window. That druggist and former Confederate used a mixture of diluted cocaine in his syrup elixir and soda water to ease his war wound pain and fight the opium addition he had. “A pause that refreshes.” Hence the name Coca Cola. Naturally CCE tries to downplay that now-a-days…and the fact that it was a former Confederate that perfected the formula. He also told a number of his WBTS Veteran Patients to smoke pot instead of cigarettes to help deal with the “horrors of the memories of the war.” The banning of pot, not just in the US, but semi world wide was the push of three men, synopsis is here: https://cannabis.net/blog/history/the-3-men-that-made-marijuana-illegal-for-the-whole-world
Unlike a former US Commander in Chief, way back yonder, I did inhale. While he was “experimenting” I did full fledged research, oregano notwithstanding. When Mama was really suffering and dying from a brain tumor I made her batches of pot brownies. It did more for her than the cocktail of opioid based chemicals they were pumping into her. I’d rather see someone nice and mellow on a God given plant than strung out on a Big Pharma produced concoction. YMMV
Thanks KoB –
interesting and fun read at that link.
Back in my highschool daze, yep, daze, I partook plenty. By Junior year, I was done and bored with it. After college, there was one time, for old times which reminded me why I don’t like it – tired and sleepy was all I got, no fun at all.
Two sides on this one.
Cannabiniod studies have shown promise for years. And THC does indeed help, smoking or ingesting, although smoking vegetable matter is worse than tobacco. But overall, no issue there.
Problem is guys sit in their fat asses and smoke and smoke and smoke and do jack shit except complain about the “PTSD” all the while not working, going to school, drinking and sucking up the PTSD 100% VA check.
Also, states that have medical pot (some states use due diligence in handing out “green cards”; some not so much) causes a concern for the VA. One must have a “green card” in order to receive certain narcotic and semi-narcotic (benzos, etc) medications for various ailments, PTSD-related or otherwise.
They will also be subjected to numerous urinalysis tests to make sure.
Bottom line: its pot or medications. One or the other.
In the end, I have no real issue here. I just saddens me to see many Veterans acting like fucking clowns hanging on the block getting high in the public’s eye (did not intend to rhyme there). It sends a bad message and further marginalizes our population while adding to the “crazy, drugged out, PTSD-riddled gun nut Veteran” personal that many in out community struggle to fight each and every day.
Like, upu know mwn, when I was in Iraq….
GT – I hear you and completely agree that some use it as an excuse to remain broken and nonfunctional. If you are so impacted by PTSD that you need to take something, including THC in any form, and don’t do the therapy, it is the same as breaking a leg and never doing the PT. The drugs will stop the pain but the leg will remain useless until you do the work to rebuild the muscles. What I’ve found that helps motivate some is another fact about PTSD, something I’m pretty sure I’ve shared here before. In a study that reviewed the records of 2.7 million records of veterans, after accounting for all other variables, i.e., mental illness, head/brain trauma or injury, substance use/abuse, those with untreated PTSD had early-onset dementia at a rate 2.2 times higher than those who did treatment. We can ‘see’ PTSD in the brain as a shrinkage of hippocampus volume, the same sort of shrinkage seen in dementia. Hence, the motivation for the study. The good news is those with PTSD shrinkage can reverse it, literally increase hippocampus volume with treatment. Hippocampus shrinkage from dementia is, so far, irreversible. Is there a tipping point with PTSD shrinkage that cannot be reversed? We don’t yet know, but so far, it seems it is never too late. Treatment has consistently worked to improve that shrinkage – and the symptoms that go along with it. So, you go from not being able to forget the worst moments of your life to not being able to remember your loved ones’ faces. My hypothesis is this is one of the big drivers of veteran suicide which has an average age of 59. You’ve spent a lifetime grappling with all kinds of stuff which probably includes broken, difficult or distant relationships then suddenly realize you’re losing the few undamaged faculties you have. That breaks my heart and infuriates me because it doesn’t have to be that way. The one big caveat I will issue is regarding psych meds. There is solid research showing the damage those cause is long term… Read more »
Well stated.
The confounding variable comment is an issue within itself.
A lot of factors can confluence behaviors and outcomes.
GT-do I detect a fellow research geek?
In the above study, they expected a high correlation of dementia in veterans, which was noted at a significantly greater rate over the general public, to the listed variables. Multiple regressions were repeated because the results were not supporting the hypothesis or the null but an unanticipated alternate. What’s more , they expected, even wanted, substance use and/or underlying mental illness to be highly correlated if not causative. Occam’s razor once again cuts through the b.s.
The VA was not happy with these results because they operate on the medical model, ‘treatment’ is driven by psychiatrists, and Big Pharma underwrote the study. The unpublished and unaddressed distinction of “treatment” revolves around scripts vs talk therapy. The evidence says it is the latter variable that loads significantly (eigenvalue of +1.9 vs .02) but that remains unreported as ‘sufficient rigor was not applied on the content validity on this distinction’, so that conclusion is unsupported. In other words, Big Pharma gets to continue to make $$$ selling to the VA and the psychiatrists AND medical doctors keep passing out pills for the quick fix, and that is called “treatment”.
Interesting.
Not really a research geek on my end, but I have higher education and understand quantitative and qualitative process to include cause and effect.
Do you have a link to the study?
I’ll see if I can dig it up.
“But, since cannibis is a Schedule I, how can there be an FDA study?”
Generally a subject waiver, local IRB approval, agency approval and a nice pallet of funding cash.
Don’t forget being unable to buy a gun while on all that.
And a loss of current or future security clearances.
My neighbor was all touting a guy he knew that could get me a “green” card. We have a dispensary that opened up a mile from our neighborhood in the middle of town. It’s usually packed.
My range manager told me recently when I jumped on the 2nd amendment bandwagon, as we were discussing this while he completed a transfer for me…
“You can either have weed or guns.”
Well, I surmised, I don’t want weed that bad and would rather (legally) have guns.
With guns, I can get weed, with weed, I probably can’t get guns. (Either, legally, so, there’s that and yeah, if I had enough and good weed, I probably *could* get guns, but I’m not part of the criminal community yet)
Besides, my rehab therapist would probably frown on my using weed. She’s very ok with my guns. She CC’s in her state next door, so there’s that.
Happy Spring and Happy Monday.
Magic mushrooms are next.
Sooner or later they will get to airplane glue in a paper bag.
Doesn’t the VA already give out a lot of serious drugs (majorly addictive) while people wait 6 months to see a shrink for PTSD already? (Hey, if that’s where things are going, it’s been done… )
Are you doing it for the relief or the high, that’s where I draw the line for me.
I can attest to a product called Chronic Health CBD ointment for my psoriasis, that when I use it and add a little sun my skin becomes clear again and it doesn’t thin my skin like the big pharma ointments and creams do. I also found this ointment to heal regular wounds in half the time if applied daily too.
They also make a pain cream called Re-Leaf that works for topical and deep pain, as I also suffer from psoriatic arthritis and both products don’t get you high.
More research is needed here but the Israeli research is leading the way.
This will help veterans like me. I was unjustly discharged for smoking spice and have dealt with trauma and unable to receive VA benefits.
Name edited to protect PII.
AW1
Dude, getting kicked out for smoking drugs isn’t “unjust.” It’s been illegal for decades. None of us can count high enough to catalog the number of times we were told before weekend/leave to not do drugs.
Spice.
Yeah.
No unjust discharge here.
Used to kick out losers like you all damn day.
Turd.
Do you realize exactly why you can’t receive VA benefits? I’ll give you a clue: Smoking spice. Thanks for playing, good luck in the future you created for yourself.
If he was dumb enough to smoke spice (or any other drug), he likely did it and got bounced long before he had the requisite 180 days of AD, so he wouldn’t qualify for VA benefits anyway.
Think this is quite an endorsement coming from this community –
https://www.easydayhemp.com/ and
https://nw-recovery.com/.
CBD has been legal in Canada for quite some time now and I can attest that it’s had a profoundly positive effect on my health(mental and physical). I genuinely hope that American law-makers will give this very important health-choice the consideration it deserves and make it legally accessible to those vet’s that really need it. All I know is, having been placed on just about every known medication that there is for PTSD – CBD just works. And unlike the previous med’s I was taking – I now have a decent night’s sleep and wake up with no narcotic hang-over and with no otherwise side-effects… While my overall health isn’t 100% and never will be, since using CBD, even my incredulous doctor has commented that my mental and physical health have “improved substantially”. Other important thing to mention – CBD is a helluva lot cheaper than any of the other med’s I was prescribed!!
Cheers to all here.
Just a cautionary word here.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1849400/
This was with the weed grown in the Nineties. Anybody who thinks that the stuff ain’t more potent now must be smokin’ lots of that shit. If you’re gonna smoke or otherwise ingest it, stay off the road. And, yeah, I know all about how some folks say they can allow for the effects when they’re drivin’. To me they sound no different from those who claim they’ve been drivin’ drunk for so long they’re just as good as when sober.
Dopeheads are going to be dopes. -no one- can stop that.
No one.
Separate that from medical research. You can’t stop dopers with laws. They don’t obey them. All the well-intended laws do is screw things up for ordinary folks, and excuse insane and thuggish expansion and corruption of government.
Study the stuff like other molecules. Does it pass a double-blind placebo-controlled study to statistical significance for the study indication? Yes or no. What are the observed side effects? How do we make it pharmacy-grade consistent? Label it properly.
The existence of self-destructing nincompoops is not sufficient reason to prohibit responsible use by normals.
Disagree? Guns.
Oh wait. -some- rights are inalienable when -you- are responsible and want?
“But they might be abused! Ban them!”
No.
Liberty or not?
You’ve hit on one of the issues I have with the current snake oil that is all things cannabis.
Yes, it’s a powerful drug that appears to have significant impact on the body. Yes, there are lots of anecdotal reports of it helping with various conditions. Both of these things are a far cry from reliable evidence.
The biggest obstacle to research IMHO is the lack of quality control in the product. There is so much variability in the product that the reports of it working are essentially worthless. No idea of what the dose is, any additional drugs being used, irregular dosing schedules, etc… Things such as pesticides used to grow the plant or the fertilizer used could affect efficacy or cause side effects.
It should be removed off schedule 1 and actual clinical trials should be started to see what benefit (if any it has).
Or just skip all that, legalize it and sell in ABC stores next to the bourbon. I think this is the most likely course of action (new tax revenue stream)that is currently held up because there is no reliable way to test for intoxication. Once they figure the testing piece out it’s going to be 420 day everywhere.
OK, Question to the crowd with experience with CBD. I know it doesn’t get you high but has medicinal effects. (please excuse the wall of words, that isn’t the coveted HoI, LOL ) Now that I’m not in rehab and pissing twice a week or more, I’m curious about where I can buy it and are there different types. Here’s the rub…my chiropractor’s wide as a PT therapise used it on my back and I was all like, OMGNOWAIBBQQQQ…whatever, but it was cream. NOW that being said and in relation to AZRobert’s comment about psoriatic arthritis … I’m starting to see in some areas hand/joint nodules and significant noticeable stiffness and pain in my hands AND I’m having continuing nerve stinging and pain in mostly my legs and feet from the lasting side effects from Shingles. I’m still on Gabapentin in a pretty high daily dose and have been for many many months and maybe it helps and maybe it doesn’t. I just keep taking it because the pain doc says so. With the stiffness and pain in my hands and joints and then the muscular pain/stabbing/stinging and also something like “restless leg synrome-ish thing” from the Singles nerve residuals. The only relief I find I get is before bed I’m taking Epsom salt baths as hot as is reasonable and then that tires my legs so I can sleep, next day, rinse repeat (no pun intended) Is there anything like your pain cream called Re-Leaf it specifically or something like it that may be a suggestion for these issues. My hands I believe Dr. Google says that my symptoms are more rheumatoid arthritis (RA) than psoriatic arthritis (PsA) because of the swelling and such associated with that and I don’t (thankfully) have the skin issues. My Mom in her 80s has the finger joint nodules and it’ genetic so… I thought any of this may have been brought on by my heavy drinking and such before I quit. It’s possible but, thankfully, then I had a full battery of tests done last year, everything came back clean except my… Read more »
Can’t speak about efficacy but take a look at CBD OPS. They 3rd party test their product to ensure there is no THC in it and their target audience is law enforcement.
Health stores usually carry it.
Unsure of your home state, by most medical marijuana places will have CBD products for sale to the public.
I use a CBD-based menthol rub for soreness, etc. after pumping iron.
Big fan.
I’m in the PRofMD but since I have a big weed store up the street, I’ll check everything out and maybe consult Amazon and Dr Google specifically for post Singles and Rheumatoid Arthritis stuff.
Thanks!!
Chip, I used to have a serious restless leg problem which kept me from getting a decent night’s rest until my wife concocted a muscle balm of several essential oils in a coconut oil base for my shoulder problems. It worked so well there I began rubbing it on my hips and legs every night and my restless leg problem has all but disappeared.
If I do occasionally get some breakthrough leg restlessness, I just sit up and rub more of her concoction on the offending leg and that annoying restless sensation quickly goes away allowing me to go back to sleep.
Here’s a study from the NIH:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4733501/
There’s a lot of info on the web about essential oils for restless leg syndrome.