Communism and Socialism Failures Can’t be Explained Away

| June 3, 2020

What increasingly has become the political battle lines. (r/The_Donald)

Communism failed because they did not do it properly. This same argument is also advanced for the failure of socialism. If only the people under a communist/socialist system implemented the right concepts and did the right things, communism or socialism would’ve succeeded. Such societies would be prosperous.

One common counter-argument to these claims involves personal incentives. People will work towards economic incentives. The more effort a person puts in, the more they do the right things, the more they exercise proper judgment, etc., the chances increase that they would achieve their goals.

But, what happens when you shift the incentive from one of personal gain to one where someone else gets it… Regardless of everybody else’s efforts? Will people subject themselves to stress intoxication if it means that someone who isn’t working as much gets the economic reward?

From the Washington Post:

To this day, defenders of socialist central planning argue that communism failed for avoidable contingent reasons, rather than ones intrinsic to the nature of the system. Perhaps the most popular claim of this sort is that a planned economy can work well so long as it is democratic. The Soviet Union and other communist states were all dictatorships. But if they had been democratic, perhaps the leaders would have had stronger incentives to make the system work for the benefit of the people. If they failed to do so, the voters could “throw the bastards out” at the next election.

Unfortunately, it is unlikely that a communist state could remain democratic for long, even it started out that way. Democracy requires effective opposition parties. And in order to function, such parties need to be able to put out their message and mobilize voters, which in turn requires extensive resources. In an economic system in which all or nearly all valuable resources are controlled by the state, the incumbent government can easily strangle opposition by denying them access to those resources. Under socialism, the opposition cannot function if they are not allowed to spread their message on state-owned media, or use state-owned property for their rallies and meetings. It is no accident that virtually every communist regime suppressed opposition parties soon after coming to power.

Even if a communist state could somehow remain democratic over the long run, it is hard to see how it could solve the twin problems of knowledge and incentives. Whether democratic or not, a socialist economy would still require enormous

concentration of power, and extensive coercion. And democratic socialist planners would run into much the same information problems as their authoritarian counterparts. In addition, in a society where the government controls all or most of the economy, it would be virtually impossible for voters to acquire enough knowledge to monitor the state’s many activities. This would greatly exacerbate the already severe problem of voter ignorance that plagues modern democracy.

This is an old article, but it covers human nature. Human nature is an ingredient that makes capitalism more practical and communism/socialism impractical. It’s a reason why capitalism has done more to lift societies out of poverty while communism/socialism has pushed societies into poverty.

The Washington Post has the full article here. It is a thorough counter-argument to the claims that people have yet to practice communism or socialism properly.

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Category: Politics

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JacobE

What some people forget is that Power corrupts and absolute Power corrupts absolutely. Whether it is Communism or Socialism bad things are going to happen because the government has absolute power. Both systems are in contradiction to our Constitution. Which the founders hoped to limit the power of government with.

5th/77th FA

spapos seagull showing up to ‘splain how/why his masters can have “True Communisum” in our lifetime in 5.4.3.2..

Unless, of course,if we did piss him off enough that he takes a break from TAH, (which, by all rights, should read…gives us a break at TAH), we may get lucky and not hear from his spapos self.

Spot on thebesig. I’m sure many here saw in the Military and in business how it sometimes would be 20% of your people did 80% of the work. One reason why the very best Salesperson is the ones working on straight commission. More you work/sell the more you make. We had techs at the phone factory that made the same $ for just showing up as did the ones that actually got something done. And in many cases the union protected the deadbeats more than they did the top producers. It sucked big time. And we would have some that would throw down those “special cards” that were in their deck.

Contrary to what the spapos seagull will spew, the only system that will work is one that rewards the individual for their contribution to society and the individual has an opportunity to better themself.

Twist

Whatever you do don’t say his name three times. I do hope he give us a break for a while because I’ve gotten pretty tired of scrolling through his easily debunked lies.

penguinman000

Communism and Socialism failures can be explained away quite clearly and succinctly.

They don’t work. Haven’t ever worked and won’t ever work.

QMC

This article = *Our locale comrade poster batsignal*

11B-Mailclerk

Well, one -might- call it the MoonBat Signal.

This thread is kinda like “hunting over bait”. Game wardens usually frown on that sort of thing.

Ex-PH2

Yeah, well, when I wrote it, the idjit squealing featherduster hadn’t announced that he was going to go sulk some place.

Be grateful for small favors.

UpNorth

Did the “idjit squealing featherduster” actually say he was leaving? And, in what thread. I’ve looked but can’t find the announcement.

5th/77th FA

I think this is the comment where he said he was taking a break. We done either made him mad or we hurt his widdle fweelingz. WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=100423#comment-3298706

Ex-PH2

Well, he used the term “scum”, so he must know what “scum” is. After all, he thinks he’s superior to everyone but no one pays any attention to his notions.

Ex-PH2

Yes, he did last night. Last thing expected was that he would stick to what he said he’d do.

The Other Whitey

Delightfully Lars-free!

11B-Mailclerk

The free market rewards initiative and effort, guided by reason. Put more in, get more out. You have a large measure of control of the outcome. It does tend to favor the smart, but honest and hardworking will still yield improvement.

Socialism and Communism reward “need”. For some reason, people get more needy when that is the determinant of what one gets back. They are incentivized to show need. The system does not reward more work in any meaningful way. It does directly reward “need”. Since the control is largely external, one also cannot material improve one’s lot other than by showing more need than actually exists. Socialism and Communism reward cunning and deceit.

You get more of what you reward.

That difference cannot be handwaved away.

Ex-PH2

Yeah, you know, Elizabeth I knew that instinctively, enough to look good as the leader of an independent nation, and get out of the way of the rising middle classes.

Ex-PH2

Ask Gorbachev why he dissolved the Politburo and sent everybody home. “We’re broke,” he said. “We can’t do this any more.” Pragmatic? Absolutely, he recognized that you have to have money to make thing work… and communism doesn’t make money.

No more USSR, and Putin finally got some customers for his gas. You have to have money to make things work, and communism doesn’t make money.

Even Xi JinPing knows that money and capitalism are the answer to what appears to be a thriving economy. He said you can choose politics or economics. Granted all the money goes to the state and all the laborers in those factories are essentially stuck in financial poverty, but he does know that money makes the world go round. And yes, he’s a communist and China’s ruling government is a communist government. Pragmatism is at work here. Meanwhile, out in the farmlands, people are still using oxen to pull plows.

penguinman000

My fav story for why Communism sucks is when Yeltsin stopped at a grocery store in Texas.

https://www.econlib.org/tales-of-socialism/

Mason

I heard a similar story about a Nork defector. He was in some high rise in Seoul to be debriefed and looked out the window. Seeing the bustling traffic he told his handlers that they didn’t need to bring every car in South Korea there to impress him.

timactual

Nikita Kruschev did the same back in 1959.

Supermarket at ~1:45)

Penguinman000

I didn’t know that about Khrushchev. Interesting. Thanks for the video.

timactual

You are quite welcome. It is my duty and privilege as an old fart to pass on the vast amounts of wisdom and knowledge I have accumulated over the decades and pass this treasure on to succeeding generations.

11B-Mailclerk

A college acquaintance and her family escaped the Iron Curtain.

When they managed to “arrange” (bribe) the Soviets into releasing Granny, they picked her up at the airport. On the way home, they stopped for groceries at a large supermarket.

Granny took a long look around the produce section, overflowing with the usual stuff, and concluded she had died and gone to heaven. She fell to her knees, loudly thanking Jesus.

When her family convinced her she was not dead, she panicked. She concluded they were in a “special” store for Government VIPs, and knew she would soon be in the hands of the Checkists. (KGB).

Took a while to convince her this was an ordinary blue-collar neighborhood store, and the produce was typical anywhere.

timactual

“Even Xi JinPing knows that money and capitalism are the answer to what appears to be a thriving econom..”

He knows what Lenin did, and even Marx; You have to build a thriving economy before you can go Communist. Lenin did not hesitate to reinstitute capitalism (temporarily of course) with his New Economic Policy (NEP) when he saw that Communism was failing. Xi and his compatriots are doing the same. They call it “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics”.

A Proud Infidel®™

COMMUNISM only killed about 120+ million people during the Twentieth Century, and today’s harebrained liberals just want to give it ONE MORE chance thinking that THEY will be the ones directing while in reality they would be the ones working filthy miserable jobs if they were lucky because the only alternative would be getting disposed of as soon as they were no longer deemed useful.
Seagull,
Seagull,
Seagull!!!!

A Proud Infidel®™

Lthrnck1775

All you need to read about how communism works is a perfect primer: Animal Farm.

Its scary to see those same tactics being used daily…sloganeering especially. “Two Legs Bad, Four Legs Good” equates to: “We’re All In This Together” … freaking public TV ads we got when COVD was the focus.

11B-Mailclerk

Ahem. Those were Sheep.

“Four legs Good. Two legs Baaaaaad”

Then

“Four legs Good. Two legs Beeeeeetttter.”

Mason

The celebrities like Ellen complaining that being quarantined in her massive mansion was like being in jail was infuriating. If you’re in a $12M mansion with a gym, theater, and pool, you’re not suffering being told to stay at home.

Mark Dice has a new shirt “Celebrities know what’s best”. I think I’m going to have to buy one.

Commie-Tsar

I have the EMPIRIC DATA! I WILL GET IT RIGHT, THIS TIME!!

timactual

People seem to forget that Grerat Britain was well on the road to socialism when Margaret Thatcher took office. Even before WWII some things were nationalized. By the time Thatcher was elected public utilities, railroads, iron & steel industry, coal, airlines, and many other industries had been nationalized. That’s why GB was an economic basket case. It was also a democracy. Having a democratically run socialist economy does not produce a successful socialist economy; socialism is inherently inefficient and unworkable.

Fyrfighter
MustangCryppie

Mattis has a free speech right, even though I think he’s full of 200 pounds of shit.

The one that pisses me off is Esper. Trump should have fired his skinny ass five minutes after he made those remarks about now agreeing with PDT about deploying troops. What a fuckwit.

Fyrfighter

Agree totally MC. Mattis without question has every right to run his suck and beclown himself. It’s (at least to me) surprising and sad, but definitely his right.
Also, spot on with Esper.

Berliner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gzq_yglHxY
31 minute video Russian officers shot of their visit to Ledward Barracks touring an Infantry company in Berlin at Christmas in 1990. At 14:10 they’re in a 2 man barracks room, with 2 TV’s and intrigued by a stereo. At 21:23 they’re going through the mess line for a Christmas meal.

The dining facility hadn’t changed much since I left in 76… we had tablecloths also back then and Turkish KP’s that removed your trays and plates after you finished eating. The barracks have been remodeled into condos adding balconies and rooftop gardens.

jarhead

Lars…Where are you? Here are some of your heroes, i. e., Rebels With A (JUSTIFIED in your mind) Cause.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/three-men-connected-boogaloo-movement-tried-provoke-violence-protests-feds-n1224231

The Other Whitey

Fuck them and fuck Lars.

jarhead

Without the lube.

MustangCryppie

Hmmm. Funny how social distancing goes out the window when the commies want to play in the streets.