To be blunt….
Yeah, I knew that the President couldn’t make a speech last night that didn’t include a reference to the war in Iraq. And the Washington Post couldn’t mention his speech without a reference to his peace prize.
“To be blunt, we went down that road in Iraq,” Obama said, referring to the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that was done without United Nations approval. “Regime change there took eight years, thousands of American and Iraqi lives, and nearly $1 trillion. That is not something we can afford to repeat in Libya.”
Obama has sought to link American values with his foreign policy priorities throughout his presidency, and the arguments he laid out in his address Monday echoed those he made on “just war” when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in December 2009.
To be blunt, Obama doesn’t have to deal with Global Exchange shipping human shields to Libya. I don’t see any Congressmen standing on the roof of Gaddafi’s palaces telling the American viewing public how Gaddafi is more trustworthy than Obama. There’s no one accusing Obama of rushing to war. No one is taking at face value reports of Libyan civilian deaths, or mis-aimed bombs. Code Pink is “standing with” the Libyan people like they never did with the Iraqi people. No one is calling the three-nation coalition “anemic”. No one is complaining about Joe Biden being on vacation in Aspen, while the troops fight the war. No one is complaining about the president’s golf while the troops are engaged in Libya.
The public opinion deck, for some reason, isn’t stacked against the military action.
Category: Antiwar crowd, Barack Obama/Joe Biden
101 Obama2012,
Yes, do brush them off. Being the top in their field means they should be able to teach you how to learn and therefore how to formulate thought.
The Professoriate today tells you what to think, and reinforces the regurgitation of their opinion through grades and scholarships.
On the one hand: liberty. Only attained by learning how to learn. On the other: tyranny in its pettiest form.
melle1228 Says: I think if Bush was still president you would be all for invading Libya. If Bush were President, this wouldn’t be happening because Gaddafi was scared of Bush. He at least put on a show of civility while Bush was in office. Why–Iraq and Afghanistan! ========== Yep. After we went into Iraq, GuhDaffy coincidentally came clean about his WMD program. On the flip side, during Obama’s “reign of power!”, GuhDaffy starts murdering his citizens. I guess he’s doing that, because he’s scared of Obama and his Nobel Peace Prize? Obama2012 Says: My bf said you guys were a bunch of has beens and never will bes not me. In this little go between we have had I definately have had more insults thrown my way then I have dispensed. Jacobite has been the only one who has been professional in the least. Something you may want to consider if you want your site to get more visitors. Something you may want to consider: treat others as you wish to be treated. When you go to a blog and, with your very first comment, make ignorant sweeping generalizations about the bloggers/readers, you have set yourself up to be treated as the ignorant troll you have proven to be with your ensuing comments. Let’s recap… Comment 1: Yeah and if this was a republican president you would be praising this action, it’s amazing how everybody has an agenda huh? You base this on nothing in the post, but biased 2nd person info from your “bf”. And, not to mention, a completely broad brush, ignorant generalization of everyone on the site. Brilliant introduction of yourself to those on the site which is certain to earn you “professional” respectful replies and discussion! Comment 2: …You guys have kinda done a 180 yourselves, You guys are against setting up a no fly zone in a country because it lacks an exit strategy yet you were all for invading Iraq with no exit strategy just because some guy with an R next to his name wanted to do it. Again, none of this is… Read more »
Obama2012 Says: not one of my college professors said Iraq or Vietnam was worth it. These are intellectuals at the tops of there perspective fields and youre telling me just brush off everything they say.
==========
That would be *respective* fields, not “perspective”.
No, you shouldn’t “brush off everything” a college professor says. But you also should not treat them as if they are gods and experts. (Case in point: all the professors and scientists who deliberately duped the world on anthropogenic global warming, ie ClimateGate) You should use your own common sense and ability to rationally and logically think through issues on your own.
Also, consensus of opinion does not make an opinion correct, it just makes it ‘popular’.
But if we were talking about validity of consensus expert opinion of military matters, the last place I would go is to a bunch of college professors. Just like I would not go to a military blog for consensus of expert opinion regarding anything non-military.
This entry is directd a 1Aircav69 and mainly some of the things he said in comments 94 and 96, I don’t post much on here and after reading this particular thread I won’t be reading this site ever again. But I would really like to know exactly how when you go to the wall you can tell most of the people there are frauds who never fought in the war. And then you make statements that nobody would have survived your combat tour except you? Let me give you a couple tips bud. There were Soldier 10 times better than you that didn’t make it home from Nam so don’t try and turn yourself into a bad ass becuase you made it back. You knw what you look like when you do that? One of your frauds at the wall or loudmouths at the VFW or legion.
Then you bitch and moan about how crappy you had it when you got back home, after you got done lecturing this girl for being a crappy service member because she doesn’t believe in the war and then you admit when you were younger you weren’t to sure about Viet Nam and joined VVAW. And all the Desert Storm, OIF and OEF Vets can thank Viet Nam Vets for the great benefits they have, way to pat yourself on the back some more. You can keep playing revisionist history all you want pal but I just wanted you to know your comments are why I am off this board.
Oh and FYI you aint the only person on this board to have an intense night of combat but you sure do throw it around the most like yours is more important. You need to take a look in the mirror.
Obamagirl…you think your professors are “intellectuals at the tops of their “perspective” fields” and you call me an idealist??????? You are the realist????? I think you have a great career ahead of you as a comedian. Yes, sweetheart, don’t ever ever question what “intellectuals” say. I taught for Park University for 16 years with active duty military and their families as my students. I never once told them to believe everything I say. I told them to research it and make a decision for themselves. I do appreciate that I’m an intellectual at the top of my field. So, since I’ve said it…so shall it be written.
I rest my case.
Honor and Courage
Tellis…you don’t post here because you are an ass. Anybody who knows me, which you don’t, knows that I’ve never came off to anyone as a bad ass. You twist what I say and take it out of context which is another sign of being ignorant. Show me where I said “And then you make statements that nobody would have survived your combat tour except you?”
I sure there were soldiers 100 times better than me that didn’t make it home. I never said anything about being the best soldier in the world. You have very low reading and comprehension skills.
Your post is bullshit. Put on your fatigues, get your disabled vet sign, and get back to the Wall. Maybe some poor tourist will believe you. Looks like I struck a
nerve with you. Good. I am honored that my comments will keep you out of here. Please feel free to come back when you learn how to read.
Honor and Courage
Bobo2012 in #101: Yes, ignore them for the simple reason that they are what you say they are; intellectuals. They are academics that have never left the university or think tank world to actually experience what you have. They are idealists because they can afford to be idealists. We live in the real world, so we are realists. I would put more stock in the words of an 8th grade graduate that worked his ass off to get ahead in life over some pompous, self righteous intellectual, academic weenie any day of the week, because the 8th grade graduate has real world experience and the intellectual read it in a book somewhere.
Bottom line is this; intellectuals can’t be bothered with the actual real world, they feel it’s beneath their station as intellectuals. They pay others to do the labor while they think deep thoughts.
I went to a very liberal college in Massachusetts after 6 years on active duty, and, while I took far more than the required load of liberal arts classes, I majored in electrical engineering. The difference that I saw between the two disciplines were that, in the engineering field, the answers were grounded in fact that could be consistently proven, while the liberal arts were squishy at best, and, if I could develop an argument, it could be broadly accepted. It degenerated quickly as one went from a “department” i.e.; history, to a “studies” i.e.; “woman’s studies” or “black studies.” This also spread across the professors in the fields. If an EE or physics prof said that y=x, he could sit down and prove it. If a history prof said that the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan was unwarranted and unnecessary, the students were expected to accept it at the same level of fact as the EE prof’s x=y, but without the rigor. And it was. So, despite the fact that your prof can make an argument, it is an opinion, not a fact, and should be treated as such. As a student, it is your relentless task to separate opinion from fact, weigh the facts against opinions, and develop your own opinions based on this study.
Obummer2012: Your mind and comprehension ability has been taken over by the Academianuts. I will quote a very well rounded patriot, Ted Nugent: “I didn’t go to college; I was busy learning stuff.”. Old Trooper at #109 defined your mentors quite well.
Obama2012–amazing how you’ll take the word of someone who hasn’t held a real job or stepped outside of their little shell of academia their entire lives over YOUR experience.
THAT is why I would seriously question your bona fides.
According to this morning’s news, Gadhafi (that’s how I’m spelling it today) is successfully moving back into territory previously held be rebels, so now what? This, essentially, has been a big part of my thesis that attacking Libyan troops to limit civilian casualties will inevitably increase civilian casualties.
By NATO attacking Gadhafi’s armor and artillery, they have eliminated his ability to conduct decisive warfare and evened the playing field with the rebels. This leveling has increased the rebel’s resolve and their stance in the Arab world, increasing the probability of cross border recruitment, This essentially, increases their capability and will to fight, but not fight their own decisive battle.
Conversely, the NATO attacks have indicated to Gaghafi that he has few friends in the west who he could trust if he did chose to leave, and, now, that, despite his losses due to NATO strikes, he still has the ability fight, and possibly win, against the rebels in their current state, hence increasing his propensity to continue the fight.
So, what we now has gone from what would have been a two week dust up to a prolonged civil war, with all of the associated civilian and military casualties. This is part of the reason why I never bought the reasoning for pulling US troops into this.
Tellis or should I say “bf”. It was nice you to try and defend your “gf’s” honor…pitiful attempt as it was. I know you’re reading…just neither responding nor comprehending.
@ 106 Tellis You may or may not be reading this, clinical experience tells me you most likely are whether you respond to it or not, it’s just human nature. Your mini rant above glaringly revealed a degree of personal insecurity that is emblematic of your youth and inexperience. Now before you jump off the deep end concerning the use of the term ‘inexperience’ understand that it is not an accusation stating you have no experience, just a recognition that yours is incomplete, you haven’t lived long enough to develop a contextual knowledge base with which you can interpret the events you’ve been involved in. Many people don’t till decades after the fact. Allow me to educate you about something since you appear to have not educated yourself. On May 6th, 1969 the 95th NVA Regiment mounted a full assault on LZ Carolyn near the Cambodian border in Tay Ninh province, Vietnam. The assault pitted in excess of 1500 North Vietnamese regulars against just 300 U.S. Army troops in a pitched battle that lasted close to 6 hours and saw portions of the base change hands 2 to 3 times. The 300 American soldiers were not all combat arms troops, but included clerks, signals, and engineering soldiers as well. Long story short, the U.S. won the battle and the LZ was later abandoned in the month. 1AirCav69 was involved in the fight that morning. Now I have no intention of belittling yours or anyone else’s service in Iraq, as I’ve stated before, I served there myself, but can you give me one example, just one parallel action in Iraq, that was similar to what I described above? I’m not aware of any. I know everyone’s experiences effect them in different ways and again, I’m not belittling anyone’s contributions, but I also believe in giving credit where credit is due son. This is one of those places where credit is due. As for the rest of what you wrote, it just comes across as so much misplaced anger that it’s really not worthy of comment. If you really wish to be… Read more »
Someone may have posted this already…..I apologize if they did, but I can’t take the time to read thru over 100 comments.
But our own Secretary of Defense admitted that this action was “not a vital national interest.” If it’s not a vital national interest, then how the hell can we justify doing it??
So freakin sick of this President and his antics….he’s no better than anyone before him……and they give him a PEACE Prize?! WTF?! Now that he has waged a military action that was not vital (as admitted by his own Defense Secretary) they should retract that Peace Prize.
@116 – they are asking for that Peace Prize back ;D
well, one can wish can’t they….
Oh and while I am thinking about it…When I see the words “Intellectual” and “Profs” in the same sentence … why do i always think of WildBillAyers and those sorts of people who have invaded our colleges with all their left wing/communist/marxist drivel?…just sayin!
I joined up just after Vietnam and the lack of professionalism in the Army was astounding. AirCav, if your generation of soldiers hadn’t spent all their time shooting heroin, smoking dope, and drinking up any all alcohol Uncle Sugar would chopper in, then maybe this country would have looked at Viet Vets in the same light as WWII vets. I ended up getting out for a few years before going back in ’78 after a good deal of the hash-heads had been weeded out. I served in Grenada and Panama and I’m not gonna have my service denigrated by some asshole who probably spent most of his time drunk as a fucking monkey and smoking shit.
@118 Hey you! Yea you there, ColdWarrior. Wipe that f’ng *moonbat* spittle off your chin sonny boy, move your trash talking ass right on out of here.
*spit*!
Fuck you. AirCunt was talking shit long before I showed up.
> if your generation of soldiers hadn’t spent all their time shooting heroin, smoking dope, and drinking up any all alcohol Uncle Sugar would chopper in, then maybe this country would have looked at Viet Vets
Yep, and they all came back homeless and were babykillers with ear string necklaces./sarc off….. Could you throw anymore stereotypes in your rant?
Wow, CW–broad brush much, you whiny douchebag? Or are you just pissed off that you never got above PFC when that was your competition?
I like how it’s ok for you clowns to make generalizations and lump the people who disagree with your regurtated BS from last nights Hannity in the same category but when people do it to you guys they’re pieces of shit.
It’s become pretty clear to me that this site was set up in mind so that 4 or 5 guys could exclaim on a daily basis about how much more meaningful there service and love of country is than everybody elses. Shotgun blast gentlemen if the shoe fits wear it. I don’t want to make this post again.
Actually, I built this blog so that trolls can come and scold me for boinking their girlfriends. How does my dick taste, Richter?
I am sorry to hear that John you always play yourself of as a man of high character I never that adultery was one of your past times. I knew you were a phony.
If you want to know what your dick tastes like ask Old Trooper or Sporkmaster they spend enough time slobbing on it.
Your mom and your girlfriend concurred last night that it tastes like strawberries with faint coffee notes. I was hoping to get your opinion.
Someone left the gate open I see, the neighbor’s mutts wandered in.
Mom and girlfriend jokes Lilyea real original, you wont get me to sink down to your level though. Don’t you have a boy scout in Biloxi who was wearing unauthorized merit badges you and your lackies have to bust out?
I see that they’ve been passing out those free computers to the village idiots again.
More reading and comprehension problems that are not worth responding to. They wouldn’t comprehend it anyway.
I can translate some of CW89’s comments though:
I joined up just after Vietnam and the lack of professionalism in the Army was astounding.
Translation: I was too afraid to go in during the war.
I ended up getting out for a few years before going back in ‘78 after a good deal of the hash-heads had been weeded out.
Translation: I couldn’t make it in the Army so I got out to find a civilian career.
I served in Grenada and Panama and I’m not gonna have my service denigrated by some asshole who probably spent most of his time drunk as a fucking monkey and smoking shit.
Translation: I couldn’t make it on the outside so I went back in the Army. KP was much easier than McDonalds. I also watched Clint Eastwood’s movie about Grenada…now I tell people I was there. I also watched the History Channel show about Panama….now I tell people I was there.
Honor and Courage
Ya know AC, the thing that amazes me the most about these trolls is their m.o. and lack of self awareness. The idea of Richter claiming any kind of moral superiority over anyone is laughable in the face of his/hers/its actions here, same for CW89. As I believe I’ve stated in the past about R, they display a middle school mentality, “my widdle feewings are hurt so I’m gonna pitch a fit.” Serious cases of arrested development.
He’ll be in and out all day. His mom called and said it’s raining up there in New Jersey and she won’t let him go outside, so he’s Mr Crankypants today.
Good comeback, Fucknut. I love your comment about Army being harder than Civilian life which is in turn harder than the Army. Nice logic there, all that dope didn’t affect your mental capabilities one bit, did it?
I was too young for Vietnam. My birthday is May 21st, 1957. Do the math, if you still can.
You got any plans for the weekend? I’m guessing you’re gonna hook up with some of your VVAW buddies and snort some more coke.
Another shining example…………….
@ #124Dickter- It’s “their service”, t-h-e-i-r.
Christ.
Of what? When I did I claim moral superiority, whiz-bang? AssCav started running his mouth to that young lady trying to act like a damn hardass. Is it because I said the post-Vietnam military was a goatfuck? Sorry for stating a well-documented fact.
Hey ROS thanks for checking my posts for grammar I guess you can’t find anybody to talk to about how much of a bad ass you think you are.
I see our local Cat IV warriors just can’t leave well enough alone.
How’s that airsoft game going, Richter? You still trying to hit on all the fat chicks hanging out on the side of the field?
@134 I was too young for Vietnam. My birthday is May 21st, 1957. Do the math, if you still can.
@118 I ended up getting out for a few years before going back in ‘78 after a good deal of the hash-heads had been weeded out.
So, for the sake of argument, let’s say “a few” is 3. That means you claim to have initially gotten out in 1975. Which means you couldn’t have gotten in after 1973, which would have made you (by your claim) AT MOST 16 the first time you enlisted.
Unless, as is probably the case, you’re so full of shit your eyes are brown and it’s clogged up your fucking ears.
Seriously, jerkoff, go somewhere else while the adults are talking.
Sparky; I was going to question that as well, but I just don’t care enough to respond to the stuck on stupid types today. Plus, observant folks, like yourself, would have already figured out that CW89 is full of shit up to his ears and the rest is toilet paper.
I’m still wondering if our resident Airsoft Ranger, sphincter, is coming up here in August with all his documentation, like he told me he was.
The only thing full of shit is your head. 78 was a typo, I enlisted June 27th, 1975. Got out in ’77 to try my hand at school, but went back in August 12 of ’79 after Carter fucked the economy. I retired in ’97 as an SFC.
Bait hook….throw line…catch stupid fish. I could do this all day. I notice he didn’t say he was in Grenada and Panama again. Must have struck another nerve. Ouch! Well we know Obama girl has 2 friends that are just as stupid as she is. Wish I wasn’t going to meet John Kerry and the boys for some coke and some heavy drinking. I’d love to be around for his next intellectual posting. Off to my VVAW meeting. See ya buddy. Just out of curiosity, when does your unemployment run out?
Honor and Courage
>I like how it’s ok for you clowns to make generalizations and lump the people who disagree with your regurtated BS from last nights Hannity in the same category but when people do it to you guys they’re pieces of shit.
I don’t generalize and I don’t watch Hannity- you little boy who didn’t get breast fed enough!
I know I’m talking to burnout drug addict, but I don’t think it’s really necessary to repeat my bonafides every time I respond to one of your inane posts.
I don’t have unemployment, I live off of profits from my book sales and the occasional speaking gig at some local colleges. I got my MA in History after I retired and write historical fiction. I’m currently working on a novel in which James Madison survives the assassination and alters the course of world history.
Keep cashing those disability checks, shitbag.
Garfield*
> AssCav started running his mouth to that young lady trying to act like a damn hardass
What lady? You mean the bitch that came in here and started crap and then threw her bf around, because here ittty bitty feelings were hurt.. No ladies here… None allowed.. Don’t come on Jonn’s site with the majority of military men who have been there/done that- and start spouting nonsense-.
I retired and write historical fiction.
You mean like your phony-assed Army career? PM Jonn your AKO info. This oughta be a hoot. You’ve changed your story more often than an Airforce puke changes their panties.
> got my MA in History after I retired and write historical fiction
Name some of your published work…
I love how some faggot sub rider is criticizing the Air Force. Do you guys cut holes in your pants for easier rear torpedo access? The people in AC-130’s and A-10’s will always command more respect from me than any squid.
I don’t have an AKO, that came about after my time, and I’ve never been in a rush to get a retiree account. So sorry but I’m also not in a rush to give you my personal info when I know so little of all yours.
And please brainiac, let me know how my story has changed so many times? I accidentally wrote 78 instead of 79, stop the fucking presses, you’ve got a new candidate for POWNET!
I’m sorry “an SFC” that you’re so jealous of my service especially compared to yours.
You are no doubt good at fiction. You write plenty of it here.
@146 Glad you finally remembered who you were writing about…. Now, which one of us is on drugs? Another typo I guess. Dork.
I get direct deposite…but thanks for asking.
Honor and Courage
Ok, CW89; I have something that is kinda bothering me about your posts. You start out by using a very broad generalization of those that served in Vietnam all being dope addicts and slackers. They weren’t and in fact, the “rampant” drug use wasn’t so “rampant” in reality. Not to the level that the hollyweird and anti-war types were and would portray the soldiers to be. It just wasn’t like that at all. Most served with a sense of honor and courage.
Now, about Carter fucking the economy? Well, he did the same thing to the military. I’m surprised in his downsized military there was even room for PS personnel.
As for lashing out irrationally at those that did you in on the ’78 date….you could have just apologized, called it a typo and moved on, we would have done the same, but here you are still attacking when you were the one in the wrong. Why? You don’t get extra points for doing so.
As for your books; that sounds really cool. Kind of like what Newt Gingrich did in the book 1946? I don’t know if you’ve ever read it, but the premise was that Nazi Germany won WWII and the book takes place after that. Pretty good book. Let me know some of the titles of your previous work, or when you get finished with this current one, let me know the title, I know several people who would like to read it, including me. I’m a history buff, so I find such things fascinating in a geek kind of way.
From #142 above “I enlisted June 27th, 1975. Got out in ‘77 to try my hand at school..”
Interesting, CW89 what kind of enlistment did you have that allowed you to serve less than 3 active years and then get out for school? It’s my understanding, and public record, that Schlesinger ended short term enlistments at the start of fiscal year 1975.