Holder’s nation of victims
The Washington Times quotes Attorney General Eric Holder today as he spoke to the NAACP about the evil “stand your ground” laws in the wake of the irrational racially-charged Zimmerman trial;
“Separate and apart from the case that has drawn the nation’s attention, it’s time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sow dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods.”
In an address to an NAACP convention, Holder said it’s time to question laws that “senselessly expand the concept of self-defense.”
The attorney general said the country must take a hard look at laws that contribute to “more violence than they prevent.”
Such laws “try to fix something that was never broken,” he said.
If Holder is looking for laws that try to fix something that was never broken, he should check out Joe Manchin’s gun laws. But, ya know, if nothing is broken, why are people actually standing their ground in the face of criminals? According to the Washington Post, “justifiable shootings” in Florida have tripled;
In the seven years since it was enacted, the Florida law and others like it have become an effective defense for an increasing number of people who have shot others, according to state records and media reports.
Justifiable homicides in Florida have tripled, according to Florida Department of Law Enforcement data. Other states have seen similar increases, FBI statistics show.
In the five years before the law’s passage, Florida prosecutors declared “justifiable” an average of 12 killings by private citizens each year. (Most justifiable killings are committed by police officers; those cases, which have also tripled, are not included in these statistics.) But in the five years after the law passed, that number spiked to an average of 36 justifiable killings per year.
They say that like it’s a bad thing.
In that article, the president of the Association of Prosecuting Attorneys complains that they have to prove a negative, that the shootings weren’t self-defense. Well, isn’t that the state’s job anyway? I guess, the Washington Post, Eric Holder and the Association of Prosecuting Attorneys want us all to run away, which in my school ground experience usually only encourages bullies to advance their attack.
It sounds to me like the Left needs a lesson in defining “justifiable”. It means that someone who needed shooting, got shot. How many of our “feel good” stories involved a crime victim needing to shoot a criminal after they called the police. Are we supposed to leave our houses to make ourselves safe, while the criminals ravage our property and our families just so we’re not “standing our ground”?
Category: Politics
“But we must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the commonsense and age-old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat outside their homes if they can do so safely.” Eric Holder
“Duty to Retreat?!?”
WTF, over…
No, his remarks are not “separate and apart from” the Zimmerman case; they’re because of. Zimmerman was acquitted, and Holder’s pi**ed.
And I will NEVER
NEVER
retreat from a criminal in my home. NEVER.
Agreed Pinto… I’ll take my chances with the criminal justice system before ever doing such an asinine thing.
There is no Stand Your Ground law in Illinois, except for the thug ass punks in Chicago and ESL whom create their own turf laws which I suppose is the same in their minds and only legal for them.
Holder is a very, very dangerous man.
So, let me see if I follow this. Thousands of black males have murdered one another since Martin was killed. Holder, whose sins are numerous and whose allegiances does not include the Constitution, evidently, appears before the NAACP and targets VICTIMS WHO DEFEND THEMSELVES! Up is down and down is up. Each of you stupid SOBs who voted for obama–whether the first time or the second–ought to punch yourselves in the temple.
Eric Holder … The same guy who armed the Mexican Narcos, right? Riiiiiiiiight. Please, tell me more.
Holder is going too far this time. Self-defense is senseless? IN WHOSE OPINION?
And just how am I supposed to know if it is safe to retreat from the safety of my own home? And what am I supposed to do after going out onto the porch discovering that there are three thugs out there just waiting for me to retreat from the safety of my own home??
No thank you. Not a viable option.
@7…Do you have any reliable, impartial evidence to support your claim that “thousands of black males have murdered one another since Martin was killed”? State, local or national crime statistics maybe?
If so, I’m anxious to see it, if not you’re just pulling numbers out of your ass and trying to make it sound like you know what you’re talking about.
#4 FC2 D
“I’ll take my chances with the criminal justice system”
You don’t need to get involved with the criminal justice system at all, with anyone who’s broken into your house, if you follow the Four Esses:
Suppressor
Shoot
Shovel
Silence (DON’T call po-po)
And as for all those stats about how shootings have tripled, I’d like to see the stats on other crimes (muggings, thefts, B&E, rape, assaults, etc). Have they gone UP, or have they gone DOWN? Hmmmm. . . . . .
Criminals have most of the advantages, they decide the time, manner, location, and victim of a violent crime. Stand your ground gives the victim the advantage to respond to an attack without running through a mental checklist of legal jumbo jumbo, as long as the victim is a law abiding citizen legally at that location .
“Holder said it’s time to question laws that “senselessly expand the concept of self-defense.” Um, not only no, Hell No.
Holder would have people disarmed and at the mercy of thugs because they had a “duty to retreat” until they could no longer retreat anywhere.
“the president of the Association of Prosecuting Attorneys complains that they have to prove a negative, that the shootings weren’t self-defense.” It’s easy to avoid that. Don’t write warrants for crimes if you know that you can’t prove the crime.
@11. If you’re so anxious (by the way, they have meds for that nowadays) to see the numbers, have at it. Try the FBI website, knucklehead. I’ll help you out. Martin was shot February 2012. So, you go right ahead and add up the black-on-black murders in Detroit, Baltimore, D.C., LA, NYC, Chicago, Oakland, and the rest of the country’s cities since that time. And then get back to me.
@15…just as I thought. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about and you can’t provide any solid evidence to back up your bullshit. I don’t need to look up any FBI stats to see that black on black crime is a huge problem, but if you would care to provide a link, I’ll be happy to look it over. Thanks for your reply, shit-brain.
No retreat. No surrender. Never give up.
@11
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-532-murdered-chicago-2012_693417.html
532 murders in Chicago in 2012, 2670 people shot.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-12/news/ct-met-chicago-homicide-demographics-20120712_1_homicide-victims-homicide-numbers-police-data
Halfway through 2012, the Tribune reports a third of the Chicago population is black, but 78 percents of the homicide victims were black. 75% the victims were ages 15-35, in gangs, and/or had records. The majority of the killers also fit the same profile.
http://www.examiner.com/article/black-caucus-ignore-crime-statistics-but-target-gun-laws-watch-groups
In 2010, the census and the FBI reported that whites outnumber blacks by 230 million to 40 million, but each group had a murder victim count of roughly 2900. Of those roughly 6000 murders, 2800 were white on white, 218 were white on black, black on white was 447, and black on black was 2500.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-1
2011: 5,416
2012: FBI report is considered preliminary and I can’t find where it reports the number of black men killed.
So, if the numbers represent a constant, then thousands of black men have been killed in violent crime.
Hey 1953, instead of being obnoxious, how about you get to a point.
Thank you for the links TMB and Dave O. Facts speak for themselves. Rash generalizations do not.
I haven’t even read the article, but I will bet it will tell you exactly what we all know. A VAST majority of murderers of Black Males are Black Males and I will be willing to bet the number is in the 1000s. I will also bet that a large percentage of those crimes are unsolved and in urban areas where witnesses are unwilling to help.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304830704577496501048197464.html
Hey cannoncocker, instead of trolling around, why don’t you offer an opinion?
My point is this: Anyone who reads the paper or watches the news knows that crime is a serious issue in this country. Black on black crime is an even more serious issue. We can either face this fact and deal with it or we can face the consequences. I don’t abide with people who toss out unfounded generalizations on message boards and expect them to be accepted as gospel.
BTW…I am not a supporter of Holder, and I definitely don’t have any respect for Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakhan or any of those other self-appointed “leaders” who presume to represent Black America.
Just making light of the fact that you abhor generalizations while in the same sentence telling us that you don’t need statistics to know that black-on-black crime is a huge problem. That sounds like a generalization to me.
@cannoncocker…Ok gothca.
Hey, 1953! You are the newbie here. Want info? Ask nice and maybe someone will look it up for you. Demanding stuff is more likely to get you squat. Meanwhile, drop the attitude.
Do your own research, if research is what you want, instead of demanding that others do it for you. Meanwhile, no one here is getting paid enough to put up with your verbal abuse.
@OWB…I beg to differ. I am not a “newbie” on this site, maybe you just haven’t read any of my previous posts. Who are you?
I am well aware of internet etiquette and I know how to do my own research if that’s what I want to do. I just want people to back up their claims. If they have a valid point, I can accept and respect that, if not, I will call them out.
Find somebody else to fight with.
1953, I read your first post, you seem to be against the majority with a I am and you wrong. Have posted here before under a another name? Have you ever served in any of the services? Your opinions come across as never served or from being forced out. An intro would nice so I can understand your positions better. Thank You Joe
@23 – Cannoncocker isn’t a troll. That person is on here regularly.
Not to cast dispersions in your direction, but I believe you’re awfully close to falling off the fence you’re on. After all, we all know liberals don’t do their research themselves and prefer that others do it for them. That’s what you’re doing when you ask for proof.
Aside from that, you have your proof. I invite you to educate yourself a little more on the facts. Start with the Chicago Tribune, LA Times, Washington Post and maybe you’ll start to see the answers you’re looking for.
One of the writers over at NRO explained all of this as Holder giving a sop to his left-wing base. The author compared it to the investigation of CIA agents when Holder took office, there was almost no chance of an actual prosecution, but Holder could always claim that an investigation was ongoing to placate the left.
1953: Sorry, I was away and missed your drivel 1953. I have read your posts and I want you to know that I mean this sincerely: You can go screw yourself. No, really. I mean it. Now, go away or stick around be the annoyance that you are. You havbe distingusihed yourself as a first-rate a-hole and, if as you claim, numbnuts, you are not new to this site, then you are merely a pissant troll.
@30 That’s the whole problem. He’s the head of the US Justice Department. He’s not an elected official and doesn’t have a base. It’s not his job to placate anyone.
Hello Joe Williams…no, I have never posted here under any other names, and no I am not against whoever the “majority” is, I just have my opinions like everyone else.
I have been visiting this site for a little over a year and I think it’s a very informative site for the most part. I read most of the threads, but I only post on the ones that interest me. I am an Army brat and an amateur military historian. I grew up bouncing around various Army posts in the 50s and 60s. I was born at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Md. and I subsequently lived at Coleman Barracks in Mannheim, West Germany, Redstone Arsenal, and old Ft. Wayne in Detroit before it was de-activated. My father served from 1940-62 and retired as an LTC in the Ordnance Corps. He passed away this past June 2nd at the age of 97.
I never served in the military, but I had 3 fun-filled years of JROTC during high school(CCPT/Battalion Adjutant)and another two years in the Falcon Battalion at Bowling Green State University during the early 70s. Does that count?
That’s who I am, I’m so glad you asked.
Who are you? Did you ever serve in the military? What units were you assigned to? If you did serve, why were you separated? Have you posted here before under another name?
Hey 2/17…do you really think I give a rat’s ass about your opinion?
TMB-oh I hear you, but it does explain his motivations. The author of the piece I mentioned (his name escapes me) was a former DOJ attorney and decried how politicized the department has become.
@29…you just might be surprised at how un-liberal I really am. Thanks for your comments and thanks for not casting any dispersions(?)in my direction. Maybe you meant ASPERSIONS. Thanks again.
Does anyone know the color of the sky on Eric Holder’s planet??
Oh, wait! I bet 1953 knows….
Troll
@37…Good one!
Actually, 1953, compared to OWB you are indeed a relative newbie. Your first comment here was less than 8 months ago (late Nov 2012). Other than your initial comment, all other comments you’ve made appear to have been in the last 3 days. And you haven’t made particularly many total comments, period.
Thanks for your excellent leg work, Hondo!
Oh, goody. A garden variety troll who has no intention of either trying to fit in around here or contribute anything substantive to the conversation.
If you actually had read much of what goes on around here, 1953, you would already know, and perhaps do, that we often disagree. Military service is not a requirement for participation, but respect for military service is, if you want to be taken seriously. Which evidently you do not.
Meanwhile, on the topic at hand (which believe it or not is not 1953-centered), as much as we try, there is little left to laugh about with this bunch. They have no intellectual honesty and have an unnatural ability to ignore scientific evidence. Statistical analysis, unless it supports their delusions, is beyond their capacity to absorb.
They have again made fools of themselves by demonstrating no care whatever for the thousands of children killed each year by thugs, druggies, crazy people, and other indefensible idiots. They cannot admit the simple reality that the black US population is disproportionately represented, when compared to the general population and other subgroups within it, among those death rates. Such an admission might undermine their assumptions.
Retreat Hell! Let the other SOB retreat. I believe in self defense and I am good at it. Any POS that points a gun at me has lost his status as a human and becomes merely a target. Standing your ground means planting your feet and firing from a modified weaver stance. If I had a penny for every round I have fired in practice, I would go out and buy more ammo! Lots more!
@OMB…”Garden variety troll”? Ha. I see you have a great sense of humor. That’s a good thing.
Maybe you missed the point I was initially trying to make in my original post on this thread, before 2/17 called me a “knucklehead” and a few others started lobbing grenades over the wall at me just because they disagree with the way I express myself. I’ll be sure to remember them in the future.
I have no problem with anyone who respectfully disagrees with me, but I will respond in kind when I am verbally attacked as I have been on this thread. No apologies for that.
As for respect for the military, I have the utmost respect for the military and those who honorably serve or have served, such as my late father. (See my introduction in post 33). So, don’t ever dare to think that I don’t respect the US military or the flag they serve under. Anyone who was raised in a military family, as I was, would most likely feel the same way.
What I don’t respect are many of these “retired” E-3 PX commandos who come on this board and try to act like they are some kind of military genius. No need to mention names, they know who they are. That shit gets very lame in a real hurry. I readily give respect to anyone who deserves it, but some of the members of this board don’t rate. Sorry, but there’s nothing I can do about that. It’s their problem, not mine.
Anyway, sorry for the long azz post. This thread has been an enlightening experience and I have enjoyed it. I’m going to make it my business to post more frequently on TAH from now on, so you boys (and girls) will be hearing a lot from me in the future. I’m not going anywhere, I don’t mind a good fight and I don’t back down.
Talk atcha soon fellas.
The entire administration is nothing more than a hairy terd hanging out the ass of America.
God Willing in 2016 we will pinch it off and flush it down the shitter of history.
Brief Bio, enlisted in the Marines in June 65 and was honorably discharged(medical reasons-back injury) of June 1972. Assinged to HMM-362 the Ugly Angels in the RVN ,June,1966 . Crew Chief/mechanic. Return to Conus Sept. 1968. Assinged to HMM-777,NAS Dallas till discharge. Joe
I kinda agree with the AG…
Stand your ground laws are not needed.
It is a moral and human right to defend yourself when threatened with great bodily harm.
Oh that’s right… Modern America has too many idiots who think using violence to meet violence is a bad thing. Its a damn shame we need laws to protect citizens from prosecution when they are simply refusing to be victims.
“Duty to retreat” MF’er the only retreating I’d be doing is if I had left the gun in the other room.
1953: you’re welcome. In the future, if you “act the fool” by making another half-baked comment I’ll be happy to reengage.
— break —
Kinda old ET1: in a perfect world, you would be correct. Judges and prosecutors would use common sense; they would realize that there are idiots out there who will engage in violence at the drop of a hat, for fun or profit, and who won’t listen to reason. Literally the only thing many such miscreants understand is violence. It thus takes violence to stop them.
Sadly, our current judicial system is infested by many who’ve “drunk the Kumbaya Kool-Aid” and refuse to recognize that simple fact. “Stand your ground” laws are indeed needed in places where this has occurred. They’re needed to prevent further abuse of those who’ve already been victimized through being involuntarily placed in a situation where they were forced to kill another to save themselves or others.
So, we must cower helplessly and get hurt or we’ll be chared with murder for vigilante “gun violence” if we shoot somebody in self defense? (Britain went that way. 80% of British now want their guns back.)
Hey Joe, sounds like 1953 is looking for a date. Oh, and please note that he respects the military. That’s important.
And 1953, here’s the line–addressed to me– that lit the fuse: “If so, I’m anxious to see it, if not you’re just pulling numbers out of your ass and trying to make it sound like you know what you’re talking about.” So, like I said, go screw yoirself–and do your own homework.
@Joe Williams…Thanks for your service. Well done.
@Hondo…”reengage”? Ha. Whatever dude.
@2/17…Yes, I do respect the military, but I don’t respect you. The fact is you were pulling numbers out of your ass and I called you on it. You responded by calling me names and you never did provide any proof to back up your claims, instead TMB and DaveO had to do it for you. You are PATHETIC, but if you want to continue to try and box with me, bring it on old timer. You’ll be in way over your head.