Getting out.
Since I post here and most of the readers here are ex-military that this would seem the best place for this.
I will not be re-enlisting and will be ETSing to Texas in April 2013. It was something that my wife and myself have talked about and both agreed on is the best course of action. We have a good plan and support from both of our families that should help with getting established. If all goes well we should have house by the end of 2014 if not sooner.
So with that being said, I was hoping to ask for advice and suggestions from those who have left the military service. Any comment would be welcomed.
Oh and I am tracking the Texas Hazlewood Act.
Also does it seem that the Retention guys make it seem like there is no way one could survive outside the military?
Category: Pointless blather
If you don’t have a job lined up, file for unemployment benefits when your contract ends. If you’re planning on starting college shortly after you get out, you can collect unemployment (in addition to GI Bill) while you’re a full time student, at least for several months. Lets you focus on school and makes the transition easier.
What’s your current position and do you have a clearance?
I’m da above guy
Use your GI Bill, no reason not to. I just started this spring, so much happier out than I was in. Be prepared for the oddball reactions you’ll get when people find out that you’re getting out.
If you’ve been in long enough, use the post 9/11 GI Bill while its still around. You’ll need a degree if you want to get ahead (for the most part).
Also keep in mind the military is downsizing, so once you’re out, you’re likely to be out indef. Reserves and Guard are a different story, at least Army/Air. If you decide after 6 months you want back in, on the army side, then expect to be going 18x, as this is the only thing open to prior service at this time.
1. I plan on attending UTSA and start the process of getting a RN. My wife is in the process of getting a pharmacy tech certification so she will be working while I am going to school full time. Also Our parents have offered us a vary generous support package. So money, housing, child care and transportation should not be a issues.
2.I am a medic in a clinic and I have a current Secret clearance.
3. I am already getting that reaction now.
4. Yep, I know and I am at the point were I have done almost everything I wanted to do in the military. I took that into account when I made my choice. Because, I may like the military, but I like medicine more. Also considering how things are going with the military it seems like a good idea to get out while I am in good overall health.
Good luck Spork.
Wish you the best. All the buds I seen went to college or Tech school and did good.
Thanks for the well wishes.
Before you ETS get copies of all your medical records.
VA claims are easier with them, don’t count on the Army to send them to where they are suppossed to go in a timely manner.
Don’t be shy of filing a claim for any disability you may have from your service, you have many programs available to help you on the VA side.
Sporkmaster,
I am the Vice-President of the UTSA Student Veterans Association. Contact me at *******@yahoo.com We should be able to help make the transition as painless as possible. Our president ia extremely well connected in the the community and has an unbelievable resource network.
Sporkmaster: Thank you, I will be sending you a email soon.
Spork,
I’ve been an RN since 97. The most important thing I can stress to you is do your best to keep your GPA as high as possible while you do your pre-requisite classes. Compitition to get into the Nurse’s program is intense and you’ll need every advantage you can get to beat out the other applicants. Job wise… I have never had any difficulty finding a job as a male Nurse. Your picking a good profession. Good Luck.
Spork – start socking away lots of money. The transition is going to cost you, and creditors don’t give a rat’s behind if you’re transitioning. Anything that doesn’t go to savings needs to pay off every small debt you have.
The hardest things for me were:
1.) Those first couple of days out on the street, and NOT having to wear a uniform. My routine was shattered, my world was gone. It took a few days to get used to the fact that I didn’t need those clothes anymore.
2.) Dealing with civilians who have NEVER severed and have never been around the military. They care only about themselves and their own personal advancement. Middle managers will sh!t all over you and treat you like pond scum because they can. They will walk all over you and use you every way possible if it will help get their own nose another inch up their own bosses’ ass.
I learned a valuable lesson when I left active duty, and that was that, despite the craptacular things we all had to do, there was no other group of folks who cared about me, who treated me like a professional, and who gave me the chance to go as far as I wanted to as the US Military.
I miss those days, and as I grow older I appreciate more and more the divide that separates veterans from those who have never served. It’s two different worlds.
Doesn’t mean you can’t succeed or won’t be happy. I’ve done both. The difference is that those on the outside will never understand your own values and will look at you like you have three heads half the time you say something.
God bless ya, man. My own dad was a Corpsman. You’ll do just fine, and I wish you every success and happiness.
V/R
Be careful about filing for unemployment and going to school. Many states consider that an “unreasonable work restriction” and it’s a disqualification for unemployment.
Filing for unemployment without mentioning the school attendance could be considered a criminal act… ie, fraud.
Also, while you’re in school try and get a part time job at a local hospital. It will give you a feel about what unit you want to work in, and it’ll get your foot in the door for a Nursing job when you graduate. ;0)
11. Thanks I will do that.
12. Already working on that, that is why my wife asked if I wanted to get out that I give her a year to allow use to get things in order. Our tax return greatly helped.
Have you thought about joining one of the OWS groups and turning into a hippie? Just kidding. Get a govt job and go to college, then join the National Guard and get deployed.
Tim.
Yep I can understand that. I worked in the civilian workforce before I joined.
OldCavLT.
I had not intended on filing unemployment, I am trying to have it were I do not need it.
Good luck Spork!!!
If you have been in more than 8 years and don’t want to do the Reserve or NG then think about reenlisting into the IRR. If you don’t then you will have a break in service and will have to do the MEPS thing all over again if you want to serve again.
Never say you will not want back in, you’ll be surprised how much you will miss it.
There are plenty of opportunities for most prior service military. My only concern is that the release of 178,000 from the military by this Administration will have on an already depressed job market. Good luck.
Figure out what companies you would want to work for and ask them what schools they hire from. Some schools are better than others.
If you live in an area that doesn’t appreciate military, don’t be afraid to move where you are. I can understand not moving if you have friends and family close by.
I also suggest finding out where the jobs are before you buy a house. If you buy a house and can’t find work, what will you do? It is best to rent a house or apartment for one or two years to make sure you want to live in the area before you buy. For example, if you have kids in school, you might find out that you won’t want them in that school, but you can’t change. You might find out the area is high in crime, or a sex offender or offenders live nearby. There are apps to find them. I live in small town USA and there are several near me. (Not all people listed on sex crimes lists committed sex crimes. Some states or communities consider urinating in public a sex crime)
Spork,
There are somethings you need to know. First, you’re not going to find too many jobs, you may have to suck it up and go to Wal-Mart hat in hand. Also be aware that if you need to go to college, it’s going to be very hard to keep up a Job, Family, and classes.
Further Spork, I want you to consider NG or Reserves. I know you’re soiled on the Army, but it’s a good idea to keep your foot in the door. The benefits are going to be crap, but at least if you really need it you can go AGR.
If you want to work for another Federal Agencies, your time in the Military, will count towards federal retirement.
Your service, and talents are valuable. You are going to have issues convincing people of that. Be prepared for the pay from jobs you have not to make up for the loss of benefits. you can e-mail me for further advise if you want.
Good luck Spork!
Spork,
All the best! Lots of opportunities for a good RN, and sounds like you have a solid plan. In addition to what you referenced, there are a lot of programs and such that can help with the transition and college — apply to them all.
Second, I’m goint to echo Doc and say consider the Guard & Reserves. If your job puts you in government service (say at BAMC), then it all counts. It can also help with the transition. Not sure about Texas, but also look to see if there is something like what we have here, the Indiana Guard Reserve (reserve to the reserve if you will).
Third, drop me a line if you will.
Finally, all the best! Let me know if there is anything I can do.
I second the NG or Reserve option. Keep that Tricare! Even if the rates go up it’s better than most insurance.
A security clearance lasts for 6 months was what I was told when I spoke to my retention guys. Given that for a cake-eating civilian, the background check can run from 1-15K you’re a bargain even if you don’t have one. Your 214 does most of the hard work for’em.
Best of luck spork.
OK….this is going to be painful, but you need to go out and buy one high quality wool suit…black or charcoal, white shirt and red or gold tie. You cannot wear your low quarters. This is not a time to go cheap and there are several places that have very good deals almost weekly.
I didn’t believe it either, thinking that I wasn’t even going terminal until25 JUNE. My better half insisted. Just last week a unique job opportunity opened and had not been publicly announced. Because my stuff was ready to go I was the first, and so far only one to apply, much less ask about the job.
You can get away with a lot with just one suit, a spare pair of pants, a few shirts and ties. You just never know when opportunity will strike so you need your kit.
And yes…it was unnerving looking at myself in the mirror after 23 years in green. If you want a good place to arm yourself with info and avoid expensive mistakes tryhttp://artofmanliness.com/ This will give you an idea of where to start.
SporkMaster…did you enter the service from Texas? Otherwise the Hazelwood act is no good to you. There are several other states that allow for the tuition, etc…if that is your HOR.
Have you been certified in Phlebotomy as a medic? In my day, we only needed experience, but if you have hands on for a year, you can take a test and get certified…it can earn you 14/hr and benefits. Doesn’t seem like a lot, but it can go a long way in the end.
That’s my two…and do take the unemployment benefits. You are entitled, after all. I have a client who is a former devil dog trying to start his own business with PTSD. Great dude, but was trying to be tough and say he didn’t need it. YOU TAKE IT!!
Sporkmaster: I am from Texas and did enter at the Fort Sam MEPS. I have the training but should not have too much trouble getting the certification for. Most of it was IVs, giving shots and the occasional blood draws. But it just feels weird in taking it in that I am in my early thirties and have a very good home support system that I am hesitant to take it. Also in that taking any money from the government comes with a catch.
Almost every class that you have taken in the service might/should have some college credit equivalent.
Getting the credit accepted by the college will take some doing.
Some of your classes will be at a level that you have exceeded many years ago, but you still have to prove it to the instructors.
Get in contact with the colleges veterans and their organizations and stay in contact.
Sporkmaster:I have started a conversation with the VP of student veteran affairs at UTSA now.
I wish you and yours the best, Spork, in all your future endevours. I’m surprised that the retention NCOs are even trying to keep troops in, these days, with all the slash and burn going on by this administration. With the current attack going on against retirees; what motivation does anyone have to stay in until retirement?
Sporkmaster: I was surprised by that too. I think that they are trying to cover their bets so that they can get their numbers. Also he is still referring to the old retirement system.
Good luck. Best advice I could give is to get in good contact with your local VA. Find a good agent/representative. Get to know your healthcare benefits and education benefits.
Get your ACE Transcript, and don’t do what I did. I went to a school that didn’t accept ACE, which meant that none of the stuff o did at SWCS, nor the college credits I took in Afghanistan counted. Go to a regular college or community college that accepts what you did on the Green Machine for credit.
In addition to the comments about your medical record in #10, now is the time to ensure everything is documented. All those little aches and pains you’ve been sucking up? Go see a doctor and get it in your medical record. You should be applying for VA disability rating before you ETS; then your medical record should go straight to the DVA along with your application. The more thorough the documentation, the easier the process. Once you’re out, expect several trips to a VA hospital or doctors working for the VA to evaluate all your ailments for which you requested VA consideration. Even if you get zero disability, just having things identified as service-connected injuries can help in the future when nature takes its course and those conditions get worse.
Best wishes Spork! I don’t think Hazelwood will be much help if your using Post 9/11 GI Bill since federal law makes VA last payer (if your tuition is exempted the school can’t certify charges, although they will certify @ zero tuition dollars for your housing and book allowance).
Use that VetSoc connection!
Sounds like you have a great plan in place. I am very involved in the certifying process at a state University, feel free to contact me with any questions.
Everyone here is giving great advice. I’m going to go another way with it:
1. After 24 years in service, I had trouble dressing myself. Black shoes, black belt; brown shoes, brown belt. My wife and daughter had to damn near “Garanimal” my clothes for the first few months. They enjoyed that, BTW. I was a Ken doll for them.
2. You will be bored. Link up with like-minded folks (Student Veteran’s association sounds like a good start) and get involved in something.
3. Networking is hugely important.
4. “They” aren’t like us. That’s to your advantage. Once you get the job you want, others will tell you to slack off or you will make them look bad, even if you become a GS. Don’t.
5. Your leadership skills (whether you realize it or not) are leaps and bounds beyond those who have not served. Take the opportunity during schooling to show that, then put iton your resume. Whether in the SVA, College Republicans, or whatever.
God Bless you, and thank you for your service.
Good Luck, Sporkmaster! Keep us posted on your transition!
If you’re ETSing to San Antonio (aka Military City, USA), I don’t think you could pick a better city. Ft. Sam has a motivated transition / career center staff.
And the comments about Reserve ring true to me. I’m currently talking to the Reserve NCOIC on Gordon about active reserve. My unit would be back in SA but I can drill here. Gives me a fallback just in case. Plus, I would get to go back to SA and visit my buddies at least once a year (Alamo Drafthouse!).
As Lucky states in comment 33, get your AARTS transcript evaluated before you leave the service. I’m inprocessing at a large installation, and the ed center brief taught me a few things i was unaware of, such as being unable to get credit for military training and experience via AARTS after you leave the service.
You have a year: take full advantage of ACAP and other programs–IIRC it is mandatory that you be permitted to partake in ACAP if your command is not supportive–and start using your last $4500 worth of Tuition Assistance while you can. It can go a long way towards helping with a few more certifications or college courses.
The Retention guys make it seem virtually impossible because they want to ensure you are ready to get out. I was a company reenlistment NCO for a couple of years and watched young men ETS who weren’t ready for civilian life (in debt, with young families and no plan for success). As a Recruiter for the past three years, I encountered many who found that the grass wasn’t greener, only to be offered SF, Infantry, or EOD. We put a few back in, but many more were not qualified to get back in, or were unable to grasp serving in a dangerous position.
You seem to have a plan, and I wish you the best of luck. Just be sure that your heart is in the right place with this decision, as you may very well be unable to serve on active duty again.
Another job hunting protip: If you’ve never written a real resume, find somebody who can and have them help. This goes for any new college grads too. Goddamn do resumes from you people suck. Or anybody that’s getting out.
I read/hear way too many complaints from military people about their ‘experience’. It’s like “I have no useful experience, I was only in charge of a humvee with three other guys in combat” and I’m all “Really? You mean you’ve lead a team of three in a high stress environment? And probably had to do daily written status reports and maintenance stuff?” Anyway, that’s a big thing that pretty much everybody messes up and a good resume is worth its weight in gold.
What Spade said.
re #40 Spade..good call. Resumes do suck and one size certainly does not fit all. In fact, I have had to write a different resume for each job opening. WTF you may ask? Well, the employer wants your resume addresses the requirements for the job they are hiring for. Doesn’t mean a complete rewrite, just some re-racking and stacking. They want to see if you read and understand the requirements. Many will be rejected because they submitted a generic resume.
The ACAP TAP handbook is a great place to start. It helps with the different types of resumes, equivalent job descriptions in the civilian world, and translating your experience into English. Definitely have somebody who knows nothing about your resume review it for you.
Transition is stressful, but its a new beginning, not the end. I have some specific resources I used and if you email me (you should be able to get it from Jonn, I can give you the info. I don’t want to shill for someone in a public forum.
Spork, I wish the best in determining what comes next. Soem of what I would reccomend has been discussed in previous comments, but here goes. Since it is a bet lengthy, I will split it into a few posts:
1. Make a business plan. Most job seekers do not see themselves as a business. Research shows that the most long term profits are made by those who market and sell a commodity. In the case of most job seekers, our commodity is our expertise and our time. By viewing time and expertise as a commodity rather than simply wages for hours, you increase your value to prospective employers.
There are templates that can be easily adapted available from several sources. I have used the one from SCORE: (http://www.score.org/system/files/u209922/Business%20Plan%20for%20a%20Startup%20Business%202011.pdf)
2. Evaluate where you are financially. You need to have 3-6 months of living expenses saved as well as an operating fund. An economic plan is part of the business plan. Discuss the plan with your spouse (and kids if necessary) to determine what is covered in your operating budget and what the emergency fund is to be used for. Definitions are crucial. It is easy for things to become emergent if there is not a definition already in place to deal with it.
3. Consider renting over buying until you have established your career and are certain you want to live in that area and can sustain the mortgage. Contingencies can arise with little warning, a spouse looses a job, requiring you to pick up more slack; degree requirements change; a family member gets sick or you end up with another mouth to feed unexpectedly. IF both of you are trained and employable these road bumps are more survivable than if you are still in school.
4. Pick up any certifications you can while on active duty. Phlebotomy, EMT-B (I or P if possible) and CNA are all very important. Research the state you plan to live in and find out what kind of reciprocity they have with the state you are currently stationed in. In my state, North Carolina, CNA-1 is required for all nursing students and the wait lists at community colleges is years long in some cases. IF you can complete the CNA-1 certification where you are that will help.
5. If possible complete Pre-Requisite courses while on active duty. I wish that I had gotten an Associate’s Degree Nursing early on when I had the chance. This would have made the transition easier than it was. I know that this is likely not possible in your timeframe, but it may be possible to get your A&P, biology and chemistry requirements out or the way.
6. Contact a Workforce Development Professional at soon as possible to discuss labor market information and develop a job search plan. In Texas this is the Workforce Commission. By law, every office has a Local Veterans Employment Representative and some areas will have a Disabled Veterans Outreach Specialist as well. These individuals are trained and tasked with helping you find work. Depending on where you are settling in Texas, I may have a contact for you. Email me and see I’ll see if I can help.
7. Develop a strong resume. Your Vet Rep at the Workforce Commission can either help with this or direct you to someone who can. There are many good books written on the subject, but each area is different and may have different expectations. DO NOT USE TEMPLATES. Doing so is generally less effective than doing the legwork yourself and ensures that your resume looks like everyone else’s. Make sure that your resume is targeted to the jobs you want rather than the jobs you have had. Working with a professional will make this easier.
8. Purchase interview clothing: Two suits, one dark blue and the other grey. Ensure that the colors complement each other. One if for the first interview the other for the second and when needed the blue jacket with the grey pants can be used for a third interview or for a more casual follow up. Purchase three shirts, one white, one blue and your choice for the third color with complementary ties. Ties should be traditional patterns in colors that compliment your suits. AVOID red as red is a power color and should be only worn if interviewing for executive level positions. One pair of professional black shoes and one pair of brown dress shoes or loafers are a must.
Also purchase two pair of khaki pants and two complimentary shirts. These will be your standard interview clothes. When deciding which to wear suit or khakis, consider what people wear to work where you are applying and dress one level up. If they wear scrubs, wear khakis and a button down; if they wear khakis, wear a shirt and tie etc.
9. Verify your service and medical records. When I went to exit the service nearly all of my deployment related medals were missing from service record. It ended up being a major stressor because the required officers were not if the office. I’ve had similar problems getting all service connected medical problems covered.
10. If you are 20% service connected or higher you may be eligible for vocational rehabilitation. In your case you would need to show that you cannot proceed in your current career. Since there are no directly comparable careers for medics this should not be a [problem. They would pay your tuition and fees, books and a cost of living stipend while you are in school. It is now very similar to the GI Bill and would allow you to save the GI Bill for a MSN or Nurse Practitioner or PA etc.
11. If you are on Voc Rehab or GI Bill you may qualify for VA Work Study. You will work at a facility serving veterans (VA, VSO, Workforce Office, On Campus Vet office etc.). You will be paid minimum wage (state or fed whichever is higher) tax free. Typically work study positions will work around your school schedule and be flexible to your needs.
12. Veterans tell me on a regular basis that they are/were trying to make it without needing unemployment insurance. Unfortunately, they usually tell me this after their other plans failed and it is too late to qualify. If you were to file a UI claim you could sock the money away into savings or use it for operating expenses. If you truly do not needs it, you can give it away to your church or charity etc.
Unemployment is an insurance policy paid by your employer in the event that you become unemployed and is based on your wages earned during the first four of the last five completed calendar quarters. Thus, every three months one quarter drops off. After 15 months you will likely not have the monetary eligibility to qualify. All service members who are honorably discharged will meet eligibility requirements. During this time you will be required to seek work with two employers weekly and be able/available to accept full time work if it is offered. Since you are in a career field that is open for business 24/7 availability should not be a problem even with your school schedule. If/when you sign up be honest about your school schedule, however there is no blanket disqual for being a student.
13. Establish a new routine with built in support networks. Work out regularly and have Spork Time with some buddies on a regular basis. It is easy to feel cut off and isolated after leaving the service. This will pass once you settle it. I am sure I speak for all of us here are ready and willing to help if you need us. Jonn has my email if you want to discuss any of this further.
Good luck and God Bless.
Spork, I’m a latecomer here, but I’ve got some advice. I’ve done the “Vet in University” thing, so I kinda know what I’m talking about. 1) Don’t wait to file for unemployment. With the current rules, if you are “unemployed for more than two months, you lose a big chunk of your weekly amount. It is there for you, use it before it is completely defunded/runs out of money. 2) When in school, be social. I’m not talking about protesting with the stinking hippies, but hang out. Talk to people. Go to some of the events that look like they might be fun (performances, music recitals, etc.). If you insulate yourself because you don’t think you have anything in common with others, you will find a huge divide after your first semester between you and others. 3) Don’t be afraid to act smart in class. Most people will be sitting in the back of the class and acting like the protagonists for the coming zombie apocalypse. Hell, you might be that way to during morning classes before your first IV of caffeine. Don’t be afraid to sit near the front of the room and definitely don’t be afraid to ask/answer questions. 4) Most colleges offer a mental health counseling program for free, don’t be afraid to check it out. Sure, you can get counseling from the VA, but the mental health program is typically 24/7. While you might not find a vet in the program, they are still there to listen and help however they can. 5) You will meet some in the school douchenozzels. My suggest is not to monkey-stomp them into the pavement. The civilian world does not have all the proper chemicals to remove blood stains. At the same time, don’t be afraid to use some of that “colorful metaphor” you picked up in your service. For most of them, it is a conditioned response, so treat them as the caged monkeys they are. 6) To help with some of the transition, set yourself up a schedule. Try to wake up at the same time in the… Read more »
Don’t hit the bottle like I did, after I got out I was getting radical every weekend for the first year and by the time the smoke settled I had 2 DUI’s under my belt and a couple other driving charges.. The courts or the police don’t give a shit that you’re a vet in some cases it makes it even worse.
I took to drink and drink took me to some strange places, it didn’t help that I am living in a very anti vet state. But you should be good you’re moving to Texas and have a plan.
Since you have over a year left every muldoon will try to change your mind so stay resolute in getting out. Remember it only takes a day or two to get a re-enlistment contract done but it takes a whole year to not re-enlist while your window is up..