Stop-Loss in the Age of Obama
Sporkmaster reminded me in an email about our newest coward, Victor Agosto, a specialist in the 53rd ESB at Fort Hood, Texas, a place I know too well. Well, Victor is understandably upset that, while looking forward to his discharge from active duty in August, he was notified that he was stop-lossed and would have to pull an extra few months in Iraq Afghanistan instead.
Oh, um, Victor is also a member of the IVAW, did I mention that? Well, he is. His membership hasn’t quite made him the babe magnet he’d hoped, however. Until a couple of hippie babes drove from Fort Worth to see him;
Love the Che T-shirt, hon. It really shows off your…um….form.
Well, Victor wasn’t content just refusing to go to Iraq, he decided to put the counseling form from his commander on the internet – that ought to make his commander more understanding, shouldn’t it?
I guess Victor didn’t take into consideration that even if he were discharged from active duty, he still has a few more years of commitment to serve his country, that the Army didn’t really extend his contract, just his active duty time – and they still might by tossing his ass in the slammer for a year or so. Putting his counseling record online probably makes that inevitable.
Victor has been hanging out at the IVAW coffee house, Under The Hood with his new girlfriends, and who can blame with those two hotties. Courage to Resist, who has named Victor their coward of the month, tells us what it’s like to talk with Victor;
Victor doesn’t talk a lot, but when he does he reveals a resolve and intelligence that seems far older than his 23 years.
I hope someone mopped up the slobber on the floor before someone else slips and falls. They go on to describe the interior of the coffee house;
A large world map featuring U.S. interventions takes up one wall. The first interventions posted were Iraq and Afghanistan. Gradually, more countries and dates have been added: Chile, 1973, the CIA-backed military coup; Guatemala, 1954, the Marine invasion; Iran, 1953, the CIA-backed overthrow of the democratic government.
I hope they put up the US invasion of Quebec in 1775, after all, it looks like Victor’s new girlfriends are veterans of that engagement.
But, I wonder how the Left feels that their new President is continuing the Bush policy of stop-loss. That cold, hard slap of reality again.
Category: Politics
The thing that get me is when Code Pink and IVAW wine about why they are being called a Communist organization and then wear shirts like that one.
One minor note, it was to Afghanistan rather then Iraq. Becuase in the first photo, it says “you will deploy in support of OEF” rather then OIF.
I am thinking of this when I read about this clown.
Sorry, Victor, but if you are that set against the military; then what the f**k did you join for? I have not patience for morons that all of a sudden get a case of lame ass when the military changes their dance card. Until your 8 years are fulfilled, you dance where and when they tell ya, it’s that f-ing simple. I was 18 and had that figured out BEFORE I raised my right hand. It’s not our fault if you weren’t smart enough to figure that out when you said “I do”. Now, suck it up and be a f-ing man and don’t try the courage routine, either, because to shirk your duties is not courage, but cowardice, no matter what the limp-wristed crowd tries to tell you.
God this pisses me off!!
I guess he doesn’t want his extra $500 a month you will get for every month you are deployed while stop-lossed.
“Love the Che T-shirt, hon. It really shows off your…um….form.”
Psssst, newsflash, Che was a RASCIST!!!
Maybe Victor is a twofer, he gets to see the Military Justice system up close, and he won’t go to Afghanistan, where he’d more than likely, get a real soldier injured or killed. It’s a bitch when you join for the benefits and the Army actually wants you to, you know, go do military things, other than hanging around with the hags at the coffee house.
“Victor doesn’t talk a lot, but when he does he reveals a resolve and intelligence that seems far older than his 23 years”
Now we have the ‘why’ of his girlfriends in the photo.
Mmm Hmmm. There are some great places to kick the asses of losers at Ft.Hood. I still have friends in low places…
Ft. Hood…….I misspent some of my time there, maybe someone can take him out to show him cowhouse creek.
I got stop lossed and it didn’t kill me, grow up goat cheese
I’m sorry, but I have a case of the ass over this cheese dick and his “friends”. I have had it with all these “brave” types that sign up, get sent to do the f-ing job for which they signed up for, or better yet, refuse to do the job they signed up for and use that tired old mantra of “immoral/illegal war” bullshit. You joined the f-ing military!!!! What did you think it was going to be!? It ain’t the f-ing Boy Scouts, that’s for sure! “I signed up for the college money”; well sonny, or cupcake, ain’t nothing free. The ones that sign up during war and then refuse to go are my favorite ones, they don’t even warrant getting pee’d on if they are on fire. So, unless Victor “the worthless one” signed up back on sept. 10th, 2001, I think he falls into the latter category. What really pisses me off is that smug look on his face in the picture. I have a few ideas on how to remove that smugness.
OldTrooper,
He signed up AFTER 9/11 so he knew what he was getting into. If he is in fact 23 he enlisted in 2004. 2 years after the suposed “immoral” war started.
Apparently, from reading his comments on the Counseling Statement, Victor is Borderline literate as well as a Coward.
I imagine his thinking was that the war would be over before he got to his first unit. Also he is in a non-combat mos.
Great, he’s a REMF with a moral dilemma…….what do you guys call them nowadays? Fobbits?
Okay, lemme do the math here. He’s 23, which means he was, at MOST, 16 years old on 9/11. Now, given the fact he wasn’t enlistment eligible until at least a year AFTER 9/11 (more likely 2003, given he probably didn’t graduate HS before then), how exactly did he not know there was a distinct possibility that joining the Army after we had gone into Iraq would entail the distinct possibility he might hear shit going “BANG!” once in a while? How did he not know that some of that, “BANG!” was going to possibly be INCOMING?
Or is he hoping he’ll keep his educational bennies like Kokesh or Chiroux? Oh wait–they didn’t keep theirs either.
defendUSA – checks in the mail for my support of your idea. LOL
What a turd. But Old Trooper really said everything much more eloquently than I could have.
DefendUSA, I second what tankerbabe said, mine’s on the way too. Pictures, if you please?
You, Sir, are a dumbass.
You don’t even make an attempt to respond to Victor.
Since those who read your blog may not know, I will reprint what Victor hand wrote on his counseling statement:
“There is no way I will deploy to Afghanistan. The occupation is immoral and unjust. It does not make the American people any safer. It has the opposite effect.”
So, Victor is really making two claims:
1. The Occupation of Afghanistan is “immoral” and “unjust”.
2. The Occupation of Afghanistan makes our own nation LESS safe, not more.
If you want to make Victor look foolish, please address these two claims. I think you may find that difficult.
In the first week of Basic, or in my case OSUT, soldiers are briefed not to follow illegal orders. If Victor had learned of the war’s illegality after he joins, which is not surprising since most people aren’t thinking in a sober mindset when they join, he has a responsibility to resist. Some might call that responsibility “duty”. His ETS is also before his deployment date. The Army needs to honor his contract. Stop-Loss is NOT in his contract contrary to popular belief. Stop-Loss is illegal. The DoD has the right to call him back, but he must receive a discharge from his current tour of duty first. This is to protect his right to benefits after serving a tour honorably. Any discharges after that would not affect his benefits. While you may get mad that he didn’t have to deploy during his tour, your chip on the shoulder is irrelevant. I speak with great credibility as a disabled combat veteran with 15 months downrange and 3 lbs of stainless steel in my body.
Having read the IVAW declaration against the War in Afghanistan, specifically, “Whereas a primary motivation for the prolonged occupation of Afghanistan is competition between the U.S., Russia and China for control of oil and natural gas resources in Central Asia and the Caspian Sea”, I’ve concluded that, #1, no one in the IVAW passed even an elementary type of map reading course, i.e., they can’t find the Caspian Sea with both hands and a flashlight, and they didn’t happen to notice the Arabian Sea. Not to mention all those oil reserves in Afghanistan. One of them might want to check on the locations of Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, they seem to lie between Afghanistan and the Caspian.
But, hey, Victor has come to the conclusion that the “occupation” is “immoral” and “unjust” and it makes our nation Less safe. Wow, which National Security briefing did Victor get invited to? Is he a permanent member of the NSC, or just temporary?
Reality Check,
If it’s in the contract when you sign it, how the hell is it illegal?……and no, you don’t have to be discharged first, I can speak to that first hand, many of us stop-lossed in Desert Sheild/Storm weren’t discharged first…in my case they would have had to stop the war so I could ETS and get re-enlisted (voluntold) In all seriousness, there is no way they would have pulled me off a tank while we were shooting so I could be “discharged from my current tour of duty” it doesn’t matter if you’re stateside or deployed, stop-loss works the same.
So let’s see, now anyone who enlists must be drunk?
I’m supposed to be sympathetic to some retard who enlists and cries over stop loss?
Tell that to the Joes who were drafted in 1940 for 12 months and didnt come home until 1945.
Tell it to 1BCT 34ID after their Marathon tour.
A lot of people (Myself included) have been stoplossed, Get over it and be a man if possible.
Gregg you can stop fellating Victor anytime now.
Greg Foster: Victor is a coward, plain and simple. There is nothing you can say to whitewash over it. He signed up during a war, so if he didn’t think he would have to go to war, then HE is the dumbass.
Reality Check: He doesn’t have a responsibility to resist anything, he has a responsibility to honor his contract (that’s 8 years, read the fine print, back in my day they didn’t call it stop-loss, they called it involuntary extension and it happened all the time then and it will continue to happen in the future, so it’s nothing new). War, in its purist essence is immoral, however, it is not to be determined by a weenie that decides that everyone else is wrong and he’s right. That decision is made at a much higher paygrade than him. He joined in wartime and if he thought he wasn’t going to have to go to the warzone, when he raised his right hand, then he is a complete moron as well as a coward.
Sean: you are doing exactly what I am complaining about. You call Victor a “retard” and accuse me of performing a sex act on him. Okay, that might have hurt my feelings in high school, but i do know how to “be a man”. You are ignored.
OldTrooper: Victor has been to “war”. He has already deployed to Iraq. Do you really think a person can make a decision that effects them for the next 8 years and really know enough about that decision? Of course not.
RealityCheck is right. A soldier has the responsibility to NOT obey orders that are unlawful.
OldTrooper, you support the “war” that has never been declared (or did you not read the part of the constitution where Congress has the responsibility to declare a war) and has gone on for 7 years, with no end in sight.
I agree wholeheartedly that war “in its purest essence” is immoral. I don’t agree with you that we should allow people like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gates to make those decisions for us. There is no doubt in my mind that those people, who have never seen war firsthand, are more interested in political power than in doing what is ethical.
If you believe in Democracy, you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right. But that doesn’t fit in with your brand of flag waving. Fine.
1. The Occupation of Afghanistan is “immoral” and “unjust”.
The US forces and forces of 44 other nations that make up the ISAF are in Afghanistan at the behest of the democratically elected government of Afghanistan and nine UN Security Council Resolutions.
2. The Occupation of Afghanistan makes our own nation LESS safe, not more.
Does a stable Afghanistan make Pakistan more or less stable? Does a stable Pakistan and its nuclear arsenal make our nation more or less safe?
Sober refers to people not of a clear mind. Miriam-Webster has 6 definitions and the one I use is this: “6: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice” That refers not to Alcohol, but a far more dangerous intoxicant: Blind, unthinking, flag waving, follow the leader Nationalists like yourself.
As for Bohica:
1. I didn’t see 44 other nations on my tour. The United states makes up a very large percentage of the troops in the middle east. One could argue that the government elected at U.S. Gunpoint might not exactly be that democratic.
2. You cannot have a stable Pakistan with Indian Troops in Afghanistan. You cannot have a stable Pakistan with U.S. Troops knocking on their door and drones striking civilian targets.
I could waste my intellect all day trying to explain these things to you people, but I’ll leave you with 2 thoughts.
1. You’re all fucking morons, go drive your hummers off a cliff.
2. Go (try to) read a book
2.
Diluted Reality.
1. How did the majority of the fighting during ww2? Three nations tops? So I could really care what the other 44 nations are doing. Second when where in Afghanistan or Iraq? Becuase if it was in the early parts things have changed a lot.
2. Do you think that it is just by chance that the increased pressure put on the Taliban in Pakistan has lead the current government cracking down on the militants there?
I wouldn’t do that, there is not much to waste there.
Greg.
Victor is a coward plan and simple. He singed up and should fulfill his obligations that he raised his right hand to uphold. As far as going to “war” that could mean many things, on one extreme you could be dealing with firefights and IED hits on a regular basis. On the other you could just be sitting in the TOC in the AC and having to deal with the occasional indirect fire attack. Considering that his job is a non-combat mos the chance of him having to face the dangers of a real “war” is low at best.
Also you are talking about him not knowing what to expect in a eight year military service and not knowing enough? We are in TWO conflict zones with people doing two our more deployments, did he honesty expect that just because you deployed once that you will never deploy again? To say that being deployed once as a excuse to not be deployed again is as pathetic as it gets.
Being deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq is not a illegal order. I will say this; I will never apologies for any actions that I have been personally or taking part in OIF and soon to be OEF if my intuition is right.
The conventional war stopped, but to leave Iraq as it originally would have left it similar to Somalia
or the former Yugoslavia. Oh and the official government is Somalia is sanctioned by the UN and I think they control one city out of the entire country. Is that the way you wanted Iraq too look like?
“you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right.”
I do, that is why I am in Iraq.
Greg, who said anything about supporting the war? I didn’t say I did, or did not support the war; did I? See, the fallacy is that living up to your obligations, whether it be paying back the money you borrowed to buy a car (signed contract saying you would do so) or finishing out your term as stated in your contract to the US government. Now, who said anything about Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld? This is Obama, not Bush, and you need to get over that. How long have we been in Bosnia? Yeah, that’s right, we didn’t have a declaration of war there; did we? How about Kosovo? No mention of a declaration of war there, either. Your problem is that you are mixing politics in with military service. Democracy is a wonderful thing, however, when you raise your right hand, you fall under the UCMJ and your “rights” are explained from that point on, not the civilian version. You need to stop mixing and matching to fit your agenda. You are the one making this political, not me. The average grunt is a-political because the decisions are made by civilians, including congress, not just the President, Vice President, and the SecDef. That’s what you need to understand, just like you need to understand that your boogeyman Bush is no longer in charge. The person you voted for is and he’s the one that ordered the troop surge in Afghanistan, not Bush. I’m looking at this from the military side of things. You prefer to paint him as this hapless victim that was duped into joining the military and had no idea what he was signing. nice try, but I ain’t buying it. I was 18, when I signed up, and I fulfilled my obligation and then some and it didn’t matter if I liked it, or not, I did it. We had one smarmy dude that tried for a year and a half to get out, used up all his resources to finally get out and made it out 3 months shy of his full enlistment. I’m sure… Read more »
“I could waste my intellect all day trying to explain these things to you people, but I’ll leave you with 2 thoughts”. So sayeth Reality Check. Thank goodness you don’t want to waste it, because you have little intellect to waste. And proving just that by your little rant at the end of your post.
Random potshots from the bird.I’ll probably piss off everyone, “neocons” and “progressives” alike….
1. The Occupation of Afghanistan is a waste of time because they are tribal savages who love being in the stone age. We should have went in guns blazing after 9/11, killed as many Al Quaida as possible and left.
2.The conventional war stopped, but to leave Iraq as it originally would have left it similar to Somalia
or the former Yugoslavia. Which is fine with me, give them lots of guns and they’ll aggressively reduce the so called “overpopulation issue” that some like douche nozzle Ted Turner say we need to address. Oh and the official government is Somalia is sanctioned by the UN, which is an organization we should abandon and kick out of our country. I don’t give a damn about either Iraq or Afghanistan, they are all adults there and can run their own affairs.
3. I did see 44 other nations on my tour, with the notable exception of the U.K. and Dominion Nations, most were fucking off, or avoiding contact. Shows how grateful they were for us keeping Ivan out of their back yards during the Cold War.
4. There is no such thing and never has been a stable Pakistan or Afghanistan.
5.We’re all assholes here, let’s have a HMMWV chariot race.
6. Misanthropy means never having to say you’re sorry.
7. Is there truly a difference between a neoclown and a prostitutegressive?
8. If you’re not American, I HATE YOU!
Oh, yeah, if you sign an 8 year contract with the goobernmint and it becomes inconvenient you’re a fool and you probably think more socialist goobernmint in your life is the epitome of compassion…
OldTrooper: Is adherence to an oath or contract a valid excuse for betraying one’s conscience?
I don’t like stop-loss, but I would have deployed if this war made any sense. I am a coward. I am afraid to die and kill for a war that doesn’t make the American people any safer. I would much rather lose my educational benefits and serve jail time.
For the record: I was a fobbit in Iraq. I had no traumatic experiences there. That experience doesn’t change the fact that both wars are wrong.
Except we have heard all of this before. It is just a excuse and nothing more. No one is asking you to rape, pillage and murder.
My view on Iraq varies, before the invasion I would say that attacking Iraq would be a bad idea considering we had Afghanistan to deal with. But since we are here, it needs to be taken care of. Also it is about time that people need to step up so that the people that have been on multiple tours can get much needed rest. Regardless of we had left Iraq right after 03 it would have been MUCH worse then it is now.
No one wants to get killed, but I think that some things are worth risking personal safety for. Now I am sure that you will ask is not deploying worth all the punishments that can come with it? That is something your going to have to answer. But mark my words, the IVAW will toss you as soon as you become a inconvenience.
Let me ask you, how many times did you get a chance to talk to the locals? Becuase if there is any good to be done, it’s here. I have been able to help by giving much needed medical supplies to the Iraqi police, Army and population. Long story short, I gave them a fighting chance to survive if attacked. I am proud to be able to do that, and I will not apologize for be being in Iraq, now or ever.
If it’s been established that Victor would be in a support role on the FOB and face no real danger, than how is he a coward for resisting. Please disarm your argument some more. You can say politics are separate from the military, but you’d sound like an idiot, because it’s so far from the truth it’s not funny. The military is the executive arm of politics. Old men don’t pose a threat until young men back up what they say with guns and bombs. Fuck you retarded loyalist assholes. There were people just like you when this country was founded writing off the sons of liberty and the original revolutionaries. You claim to love America, but apparently you have no fucking clue what it was founded on. Fuck all of you high school dropout lemmings.
I have a law degree, so how about you go fuck yourself and try to read a book yourself.
Victor: As I asked in my first post; what did you join the military for? You joined in time of war, so it’s a good bet that you would go to a warzone. The obligation is 8 years, period. Whether you have a problem with the war and your view of whether it makes sense, or not, should have been decided before you signed up. Your obligation to your conscience should have been decided before you raised your right hand. Whether you feel that both wars are wrong, should have been decided before you joined. As for making us safer……When was the last attack on the US?
I disagree vehemently with how the war is being managed instead of being fought, I LOATHE just about every assclown in D.C. be they republikrat or demican, give 2 monkey shits about the people of Afghanistan or Iraq, however Victorkins signed a contract with Uncle Sam. The contract is inconvenient? Too Bad, So Sad.
If it’s been established that Victor would be in a support role on the FOB and face no real danger, than how is he a coward for resisting. Please disarm your argument some more.
You first, shitbird; If, as you say, Miss Victor faced no danger as Fobbit Of The Year, and yet STILL “resisted”, then I think that pretty much proves his bona fides as a coward, doncha think? That being said, I have a buddy sitting at Benning right now in the wounded warrior program, 300 miles away from his wife and kids…I guess you could reasonably say he was FOB as a gunbunny, but wounded he is, and a coward he most assuredly is not. When his unit out of Thompson GA was called, his ass was there. Maybe you’d like to drive down to Benning and explain to him how we should all go fuck ourselves for thinking Prince Victor is nothing but the dingleberry on the pucker on the ass of humanity? I’m sure he’d love to hear your side of the story.
Loyalists? Aren’t you suppose to wait until your fantasy socialist revolution to happens first? Also if we are the “loyalist”s for supporting America, what does that make you?
But seriously? All that claimed intelligence and that is the best you could come up with? If the risk is low then there would seem to be less reason for him to avoid deploying. Also you may want to read his statements above before you start typing.
Funny you bring that up about the American revolution. Becuase early on, most of the army was not getting paid so whole units walked off their post. It was happening so many times that Washington had several executed because the Continental Army would soon vanish.
Reality Bites: I just love getting the intellectual midgets panties all in a wad. You can’t lay out a proper re-buttal, so you start in with your drooling moonbat, foaming at the mouth screed. I have more respect for Victor than you, since he made his case without vitriol. I don’t agree with him, but I respect that he defended his actions without slobbering like you are.
You say I’m the idiot, yet you can’t even figure out how our government is divided up, for example: “The military is the executive arm of politics.” Really? I would think that such a learned person would know that the military is not part of any politics. Politicians (civilians) make the policy, the military is a tool for maintaining that policy. Which ever President/administration/congress is in power, they make the policy, the military carries it out on the orders of the administration.
Then, you devolve into a profanity laden screed wherein you put many words in my mouth that I never said, in order to attempt to bolster your own pathetic argument.
Oh, btw I have a degree in engineering, so I think I made it past high school. You, on the other hand, if you do have an advanced degree, I would ask for my money back.
Manners are wasted on assclowns like you. You talk about your friend in Benning…I have friends who are dead and wounded also. Why would you want that for anyone else? What noble cause are we fighting for? We are weakening the Army, we are weakening our national security. We are going my the Romeside. This is exactly what happened to the Nazis. I’m not socialist btw, but thanks for setting us back about 50 years.
Washington also said not to get involved in permanent alliances or foreign affairs that don’t affect us.
Jonn wrote: Oh, yeah? What was the exact quote?
You mean the same Washington that requested help from the French (Lafayette) and Prussian individuals (Von Steuben) and others?
And thanks for the Nazi reference, that has been proven to win every argument. But, just for the sake of historic consistency, perhaps you could explain just what in the holy hell you are talking about.
“…avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments, which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to Republican Liberty.”
France was supposed to be a temporary alliance
“It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world…”
I’m speaking of the Nazis spreading their armies thin through empirical expansion and leaving their homeland vulnerable. We do the same thing now through the neo-colonialism we so liberally slather all over the globe instead of minding our own damned business.
Jonn wrote: It’s important to provide the context of the quote – not just pick and choose which lines you like;
“Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.”
See? He was talking about an imperial Europe, particularly France, England and Spain who were constantly at war with each other. And, with whom have we forged artificial ties, any-damn-way? Neo-colonialism? What countries are we colonizing?
Your talking points have fecal matter on them.
I am getting the sudden urdge to request a DD214 check on our friend here.
Sporkmaster, you quoted;
“you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right.”
and use that as justification for your service in Iraq, yet you can’t see that this is exactly what Victor is doing?