USAF M18 case gets more spicy
We talked about the Sig P320/M18 kerfuffle as it relates to the death of an active duty USAF Airman Brayden Lovan last month, starting here. After that incident, which was reported as an uncommanded discharge when the Security Forces airman was taking his belt off, the Global Strike Command and then the whole Air Force started a safety review of the M18. The P320 that the M18 is based off of has long been said to have such issues.
Well now an airman has been arrested “on suspicion of making a false official statement, obstruction of justice, and involuntary manslaughter.” Task and Purpose has the story;
An airman has been arrested in connection with the shooting death of Airman Brayden Lovan, 21, last month, which prompted the Air Force to curtail the use of M18 pistols, according to the service.
“Out of an abundance of caution and based on initial reporting, Air Force authorities ordered various safety precautions involving the M18 after this tragic event,” an Air Force spokesperson said in a statement “ Since then, the investigation has progressed and an individual has now been arrested on suspicion of making a false official statement, obstruction of justice, and involuntary manslaughter.”
The Air Force has not yet identified the airman who was arrested for the July 20 shooting of Lovan at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming.
“As with all individuals accused of a crime, the person arrested in this case is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law,” the spokesperson said. “The investigation in this case is ongoing and further details are not available.”
On July 21, the commander of Air Force Global Strike Command suspended the use of M18 pistols pending the outcome of investigations into Lovan’s death. Security Forces airmen with the command were issued M4 carbines to replace their M18s.
Shortly afterward, some Air Combat Command units also temporarily restricted using M18s, although the command as a whole did not suspend using the pistols.
The Air Force then ordered service-wide inspections of its M18 pistols to “validate the serviceability of weapons and reinforce confidence in their use,” a service spokesperson told Task & Purpose earlier this month.
However, Officials from the Army, Navy and Marine Corps told Task & Purpose in July that those services had no plans to pause use of the pistols, which are made by Sig Sauer.
The M18 pistol is a compact variant of the Army’s Modular Handgun System, which all the military branches have adopted as their standard sidearms since 2017. The pistols replaced the M9, which first entered service in 1985.
Well now. Don’t lie to Uncle Sam, payback is a bitch.
Exactly. Lying is reserved for them!!😉
Just like you don’t steal from Uncle Sugar, he hates the competition!
What a shocker. In keeping with a long tradition of “it just went off!!!” excuses for negligence.
The only thing shocking to me is that they actually got to the truth. Must have been a witness come forward, or the Airman had an attack of conscience.
I bet a witness got an attack of conscience.
Don’t know what happened but guess it will all come out in the wash. This is why I try to keep an open mind about these things instead of shooting off about what I think I know or rumors on reddit boards. Perhaps Mr. Perennially Butthurt will come by later and tell us this is all some MIC plot.
The M18 is a flawed, unsafe, pistol that is unsuitable for military use.
I does have a history of documented uncommanded discharges.
If you read my posts about the event I was skeptical of one discharging just sitting on a table.
“I does have a history of documented uncommanded discharges.”
I agree Major, you do, almost every time you post.
He’s the result of a negligent discharge.
Nope. Smug “I told you so” attitude denied. Please resubmit in two weeks for further denial. You may go now.
I’ll admit, I bought into the story about it being an “uncommanded discharge”. Someone commented about the arrest on a ValhallaVFT video poking fun at Tim Kennedy last night. I confirmed it online and was going to post something in yesterday’s FGS but figured there’d be a post this morning. Reading between the lines, the suspect likely negligently fired the weapon, had an “oh shit” moment, and decided to try to cover it up. Really bad look for him. He made a horrible situation much, much worse by getting Air Force commands to suspend the use of the M18, and by providing more anti-P320 fuel to an already intense fire.
This is good for SIG, but is it really? When the initial reports came out, a lot of “gun people” didn’t bat an eye. It had to be an uncommanded discharge because it was being reported as such and, well, the P320 has a reputation. When a weapons system has a history of issues backed up with numerous injuries and reports, it just seemed natural that an unfortunate death was inevitable.
In a perfect world, SIG will prove without question that the P320 is a safe and reliable design, and that this is all simply anti-SIG propaganda. I don’t really understand where the supposed “coordinated anti-gunner” attack is coming from since many critics of SIG are proven pro-2A types, but that’s beside the point. The US military, and law enforcement officers, need a weapon that will go “BOOM” when triggered and otherwise stay silent.
Regardless, hopefully the truth comes out, and Lovan’s family gets some closure. It’s easy to type away and speculate, but I can’t imagine what the deceased Airman’s loved ones are going through.
Given the current M17/M18 kerfluffle, the lie was completely plausible. But, still a lie. And a young man is dead.
About a plastic weapon that melts in a fire and is molded in the wrong (sand, desert tan) for war in Europe or Asia.
Are there any instances of the weapon going off without a
round in the chamber? I’m serious. Not trying to be funny.
Not that I’m aware of. that would definitely be an ammunition or external factor (heat, etc.), not the firearm.
SAMMI ammunition tests.
Bing Videos
So much here is not adding up. My weapon was my weapon. I checked it out and it was my responsibility and the Corps new I had it from the armory. Obviously they have the weapon that shot the airman, if it was the airmans own weapon that killed him they would have known that in mere minutes. If it were another weapon they would have known that too. Un less chain of custody on weapons has gone out the door in the last 40 years, something is not adding up.
We should know soon enough. Given the ages of those involved, it could have been a simple “prank” gone wrong or just mishandling of the weapon. The Army is the same way, we sign for individual weapons from the Arms Room, using a 3749 weapons card or a 2062 hand receipt, and usually have a locally produced log to sign as well. That weapon is our responsibility until it is turned in, and the only time it’s handed off or left for someone else to watch is if we go somewhere that weapons aren’t permitted (stateside dining facility, etc.), in which case at least two Soldiers are assigned as weapons guards. A factor that we generally don’t have to worry about outside of combat environments is that there is usually no ammunition available. When we qualify or conduct live-fire ranges, ammunition is only issued just prior to going to the firing line. Obviously, MPs and their sister service peers carry live ammunition. But I’d think that a firearm would have to be locked and cleared before passing it to someone else for any reason.
No telling. It sucks that we lost an Airman regardless of how it happened.
We never had any AD’s while standing guard on the pier at the ships forward brows gangplank with the .30 M-1 Carbine which we never were given ammo for the weapon, no ammo, no AD’s. We were dressed in undress blues with an ammo belt and empty mag holders and white leggings which looked boss.
The Secret Service makes sure that Alpha Company of The Old Guard, aka the Commander-in-Chief’s Guard, can’t have any ADs or NDs with their unloaded reproduction Brown Bess muskets by removing the flints and plugging the flash holes prior to the Inauguration every four years.
Interesting, I never knew that.
Yeah, I don’t know if they still do it, but our M14s were gauged annually during my first stint there (2004-2008). Gauging is the inspection and repair of all Army small arms (headspace, barrel condition, function, etc.), and after the 2005 Inauguration, the retired Marine CW4 (IIRC) who worked out of Belvoir mentioned that the number of M14s still missing firing pins and extractors, another Secret Service demand.
That’s the theory, anyway. Reality says otherwise.
In spite of questions on how the young airman died (RIP), there are still questions on the safety of the M18.
BigCountryExpat (dot com) did a post on the manufacture and safety of the M18.
“I was cleaning it, and it fired, just like that!” The way so many ND stories seem to happen. Many years ago, had a guy shoot and paralyze a young lady jogger from his driveway. Claimed he was trying to install grip panels on his 1911, yet detectives couldn’t duplicate the act.
One of the things I used to dislike about Glock is the need to pull the trigger for disassembly. Funny thing is, I’ve yet to have mine fire during fieldstripping. Odd thing I know, but if you clear the gun and visually inspect the chamber, the chances of an ND are zero.
Not so for one of my Soldiers some 20 years ago. He was living in Fairfax County with his Air Force SP wife he’d met on Hot or Not. They’d financed a Rhodesian Ridgeback puppy, and I guess the poor dog was just being a dog when my Soldier decided to clean his Glock. It made one hell of a mess, and I didn’t know about it until the following day, as I was in the Unit Armorer’s Course and away from the company. He was stuck with a bloodstained living room and a payment on a dog he’d inadvertently put down. I can’t recall what, if any, legal or civil issues he had. I’m sure the apartment management didn’t like it, and Fairfax isn’t exactly known for being hands-off when it comes to over enforcement of the law.
Drop the mag and eject the chambered round or dump the rounds out of the cylinder. Visually and/or physically inspect the gun to ensure it’s unloaded. It’s like magic! You can clean every nook and cranny, pull the trigger to your heart’s content, and install all of the expensive aftermarket stuff you want, and the gun won’t fire.
Every morning and night, when I started work, we loaded and unloaded our shot guns and handguns at the chute on top of the steel can trap. Mags were put into the weapon while pointing into the trap and racking the slide was the same. We did have knucklehead shotgun AD’s when the person didn’t eject the last round and he pulled the trigger that left double O buck in the overhead ductwork. One of the truck guards goes into the vault and shows the vault workers how he could draw his S&W .38 Mod 10 and shoots one of the guys in the stomach. Round stayed in the wood cabinet a number of years before someone removed it. Guy recovered and him and a number of his co-workers took the NYC Sanitation test and left. WSe also had AD’s inside our trucks and in a customers store with a shotgun AD. Another guy shot himself in the foot at the 5 And Dime store on 34th street and 7th ave in Manhatten and tried covering it up with the Nurses help but got caught. I have more but I’m getting low on my keyboard ink reels. Hmm, I wonder if the ink tape reels that fit in my Smith Corona Galaxy portable typewriter would fit. OH well, see you later Alligator.
It’s that simple but so often overlooked.
Saw an “accidental discharge” of a 106 mm recoilless rifle once. Messy at both ends. Never did learn what happened to the “gunner”.
Say it with me; “There is no such thing as an empty weapon”.
I’ve mentioned my ND before, I think. As the resident “weapons expert” in my unit during the Invasion, I was told to clear a ZPU-4 (ZPU – Wikipedia) that had already been partially destroyed with incendiary grenades. Our battalion wanted it, so I went up to clear the rounds, hit the wrong thing, and heard a bolt go home, followed by about three rounds from the other barrels. Oops. I knew Kalashnikovs and Simonovs, not AA guns. We did have the foresight to ensure the immediate area was clear and no friendlies were forward of us, but no telling where those rounds went.
In my defense, if I could have owned (and afforded) a ZPU over here, that would have never happened. I blame federal law for that mishap… 😁
Even empty weapons can kill, bayonet charges, pistol-whipping someone; knives have been doing it for years…
The British seem to be relearning that lesson.
My great uncle was a Navy officer in WWII, right before the ship was supposed to leave the West Coast and head off to the war, some CPO just up and accidentally shot himself in the hand while disassembling his 1911 to clean it. The way he told the story I knew nobody believed it.
Sounds like there was a round in the chamber…
#1- UNLOAD (SAFE) the weapon before anything else…
So, it’s still “Guns don’t kill people, people do”?
I. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
No exceptions. Do NOT “pretend” that this is true, be deadly serious about it. Keep your weapon really ready, and we will never hear “But I didn’t know it was loaded”
II. NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
This rule is conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols and excused because “Its not loaded” SEE RULE I
III. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
IV. BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
Agreed.
The arrest doesn’t matter, this is Sigs DC10 moment, 20 years from now when they are gone, someone will bring up this event.
“A lie travels around the world
Before the truth can put on its shoes.”
IMHO a whole lotta slander going on against Sig.
All the guntubers in my recommended jumped on the train and started filling up my feed with videos shitting on them. Promise you, none of them will correct themselves or the story
Wr damn near had some issues with the M9 Beretta during Desert Storm, but no due to the weapon.
Either AFSOC or AF sent out guidance on how to modify the leather 38 holster on the SRU-21/P survival vests to accommodate the M9. The mod was a abhorrent disaster. Slides being racked back while holstering the gun, some locked back, some didn’t. Guns falling out of the holster, when the aircrew moved around.
Being we were a MC-130E unit, the backenders wore the webbed belt with the M12 holsters versus using the vest holster and the flight deck crews stowed them in their helmet bags or in a gun box in the backend.
We were expecting a ND due to this bastardize holster, thankfully we never did. But I still remember how the modification was done.
Don’t know if this was just a AFSOC mod or if the other commands that had the M9s did it to. A lot if not the mass majority of AF units were still using the 38s.
Mike
USAF Retired