Veterans Service Organizations and phonies
First let me say that this blog is not affiliated with any veterans’ service organizations. I am a life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the Disabled Veterans of America along with several other unit organizations. Like you, I’m disturbed by the number of phonies that we’ve uncovered in the leadership of some of these organizations, but I understand it.
There was a time when I talked to veterans, I believed everything they told me, because I WANTED to believe that a veteran would never lie to another veteran. But those days have passed – I trust them up to a point. Yes, the VSOs should be checking these records more thoroughly, but they WANT to trust veterans to not lie to them. You know, the opposite of the Veterans’ Affairs folks who WANT you and expect you to lie.
I am a little disturbed by those of you who declare that you won’t join these organizations because of the phonies. Actually, that’s more harmful than helpful. If the real veterans won’t join, the organizations will be run over by the phonies.
In 2009, when the president decided that service-connected disabled veterans would buy their own insurance for their treatment, it was the American Legion, the VFW and the DAV that marched into the Oval Office and changed his mind. Last year, when the VA in Arizona couldn’t process appointments for sick and injured veterans fast enough, it was the American Legion that filled the breech and processed those appointments.
When this administration wants to make the case for reducing your benefits, increasing your healthcare costs, alter your retirement benefits, its the VSOs who are your only voice in Congress to present your side of the story. They knock on doors in the Congressional offices and represent you in those hallways and cafeterias. They’re the only ones who will.
Your motorcycle club, your rescue dogs, your charities won’t be there. Only the VSOs. The VSOs only have the weight of their membership numbers behind them to give them credibility in Congress and when they march into the White House. In effect, when you say you won’t join because of the phonies or because of the dimly-lit exclusive barrooms full of vets telling their war stories – well, that’s what the cost-cutters want. By you not participating in any manner, the folks who want to do away with the military win. They don’t want you to join the VSOs so their voice, and consequently yours, will fade into history.
I figure that my membership in those organizations is the least I can do – the VSOs are becoming more skeptical about who they allow in – how many of you email me and say you never knew that the stolen valor problem was as wide spread as it is? Yeah, I didn’t either, and neither did the VSOs – but they’re coming around to it, and you can help them while you help yourselves along with the rest of the veteran community.
Category: Veterans Issues
Great food for thought. I was going to let my AL membership expire but only because I don’t use the clubs. You remind of the other reasons to stay in. Thanks.
I’m renewing my AL and VFW memberships and I have NO quips or qualms with signing an SF180 or showing them a DD214.
Well said Jonn, I am a life member of the VFW. I dont go to my local post but I do donate additionally each year.
For all the Good the VFW does, its a Black Eye every time one of these Jack Asses get outted and end up being a well respected member of the organization.
I think we will all see stricter vetting processes for all the VSO’s in the near future thanks to these Stolen Valor Scum Bags !
Well said, Jonn.
Sure, we have seen entirely too many of these phonies coming out of VSO posts, but not all by any means. Instead of us grumbling that “they” should be doing something about it, should we be the ones in there helping the VSO’s to rid themselves of the garbage?
Jonn, thank you for this. It never occurred to me to look at it that way. Thank you for being a good friend, for telling us how it is, and for giving us food for thought.
One quick note on this. Or two I guess. No, I did not discuss this post with Jonn at all, had nothing to do with it, and just saw it when I logged in.
That said, VSOs can stop the 1/2 (or so) of Stolen Valor guys who just make shit up from whole cloth. It’s the embellishers we have more problems with. When you join, the way it should work is you show your DD214. But VSOs can’t keep those records, for various privacy reasons. (Look at how many breeches there have been at VA for more on that.) When I am alerted to a embellisher or a phony in my professional (or even personal sometimes) capacity, I contact the Department (state) leadership. Embellishers are more difficult, because if they qualify, they qualify. A post or Department can initiate proceedings, but it is neither quick nor easy. But they do it. I know since I hear about it.
But the best thing is to have someone there on the ground who can call out the bullshit when they hear it. Plus, like Jonn said, we need the power on the Hill.
Plus, our Magazine this next month has a picture of my ass. I’m the one that looks like Sasquatch walking across the frozen tundra of Greenland when you get it.
Plus, our Magazine this next month has a picture of my ass….
Mind bleach! Mind Bleach! Getcha Mind Bleach heah! Mind Bleach… Step right up good sir!
Another reason I come here. To get challenged on some of my beliefs. Thanks Jonn. Good post.
MGySgtRet. Here-Here. Well said and you expressed my thoughts well. Thank you Jonn.
DAV is sufficient for me. At least once a year, they send a field VSO out to answer questions.
And we have a fake Chief and lawyer and lousy pilot running (in what’s left of his mind) to lead the AL. But that’s another story.
On a related note the National AL convention is in Baltimore, MD this year, which is my neck of the woods. So for those going we’ll have to arrange a TAH meet up. My AL post isn’t far from Baltimore and I’lf be happy have as a guest to the post anyone on here. 🙂
-Ish
I’ve been asked by the Legion to cover the convention this year, so we’ll see you there. It should be fun, because the Dutch Rudder Club has expressed it’s interest in protesting the American Legion at it’s convention.
Oooooh. A protest. That just screams for a counter protest. At least pointing and laughing.
Baltimore, MD, damn, the kingpins of the Dutch Rudder Gang could all end up being there at once, talk about a stellar black hole of teh stoopid!! On the other hand, that would also be an ample supply of comic relief, no need to hire comedians for entertainment!
I’ve heard that Baltimore is a dangerous town.
/I’ll stay on the coast, by the beach thankyouverymuch.
Hmmmm…all of us in one place, all of them in one place.
It has possibilities.
I’ll bring the paintballs and a mailbox door 😈
And I’ll bring a shovel!
OK, not a shovel, but I’ll bring an E-tool!
I’ve always shyed away from the VSOs because I’ve tended to buy into the stereotype of the dimly light barroom full of war stories, both real and dubious. This post has convined me of the short sightedness of that attitude. I can’t afford to join all three, so the important question now is who will send me the least mail?
I am a member of the AL and a lifetime member of DAV. IIRC, the DAv has the smallest liftime cost, so I just paid it off. AL I pay every year. I get a mag from AL every month and I never hear from the DAV. I was a member of the VFW for years. Started back in the 90s. I get tons of mail from them and haven’t been a member for a long time now.
Former 11B…Thank you for expressing my thoughts as well.
Unfortunately that stereotype still exists.
I haven’t been in one of those places in years and managed to get the Twofer within the last 6 weeks.
A very close freind rented the Local VFW hall in town ( the upstairs) for his daughters 16th birthday party She wanted a 50’s themed deal. My wife made her dress and I helped out with a few props.
Natuarlly we were invited to stay for a while and eat.
Outside for a smoke and the “bar” people from downstairs come out. a few “tired and used up” women drinking cheap drinks and a one Vietnam era guy who could barely stand up.
Fast forward to last weekend, same buddy rented the Legion Hall in the same town for his fathers 80th Birthday party. Keep in mind, this was from 1 to 5 pm on a Saturday afternoon.
Again , out for a smoke and , I swear it was the same used up women and same drunks out in the smoking area.
I “joined” my local VFW after being visited while a patient in St. Albans Naval Hospital in late May 1968 – two VFW members signed me up then and there and I’ve continued my membership since then.
I also joined the DAV and the MOPH, both of which are fine organizations. I never joined the American Legion, and to be honest….I don’t know why.
EXCELLENT post, Jonn.
TV in this AO had a big story last night on an effort by the AL to help vets with claims etc. They say that they expect to have seen over a thousand vets by Fri night. This is in Jacksonville, NC,,,near Camp Lejeune. Link: http://www.wcti12.com/news/hundreds-of-veterans-receiving-help-in-jacksonville/30986734
This is exactly what needs to be stopped. Read the quotes from this Mayfield guy. Retired SgtMaj. I don’t know this man or his circumstances. I wish I could express exactly what is wrong with this in writing. He retired, he gets a check, he has access to health care, he was paid while on active duty. “I’m an old-school guy. I did my days work, I want my dollar,” said Mayfield. “I’m not here as just an exercise to give someone a good feeling about something they did. I’m here to get what I feel is coming to me,” said Mayfield.
There is some slim remote chance that Mayfield here needs some assistance. I will go with the overwhelming odds, he is out for a money grab. Fuck him. Fuck anyone like him. Fuck anyone that looks like him. This shit makes me sick.
Poor victim needs more money. I am supposed to jump on the band wagon and support the masses that think they are entitled to more money. Nah, I don’t think so.
People that file and clog the system up for trivial bullshit can kiss my ass.
PS Any organization that assists in filing their bullshit can suck the snotty end of my fuck stick. Seriously, support this shit, no way.
The problem is that it’s a catch 22 condition. He maybe getting a retirement from the government, he may not be close enough to validate the costs to see the Jax VA hospital for his care and additionally the VA has it that you need to see them first before going out in town. Even if it’s trivial BS, the VA has hoops where they will deny at the beat of a heart a claim that should have been made right after retirement but you wait until 65 for making a claim, well trying to find the paperwork and witnesses is like angels on pin head counting. Finally, hate to say this but those of us who served where told that if we did our time (whether it was 4 or 40) and left in good standing that our benefits would be there as promised. So that sentiment you are expressing about the guy being a parasite seems a little misplaced. The guy might have said it better, but he did pay into the system with his time in service and he did pay in via his taxes. So he is trying to collect on the promissory note that the recruiting officer wrote so many years ago.
‘our benefits would be there as promised’. What benefits are you talking about? When was anyone told they would be compensated for a hearing loss 20 years later. Bad backs 10 years later. Where was it promised that because I served there was a benefit to file claims for the rest of my life? No, there was no such promise made or implied. I served longer than most, less than a few. Fuck this guy.
If you don’t know which benefits then you haven’t been paying attention to Congress for the last 30 years at least. Yes it was Congress that promised us benefits. From. The supposed health care for life to needs based assistance for things like housing and food. let’s not forget the other portions of the GI Bill, help with the SBA and FHA. For assistance with business and homes. Then there are beneficial checks out there for farmers, job retraining, etc. Most of these are codified programs and a few are not codified but do exist as regulations. Then there is a slew of state level programs some of which duplicate the federal for a few dollars more and then there are additional new programs at your state level such as in mine where one can get monetary assistance to offset the high costs of heating or food or even provide discounted or free transportation to and from approved medical facilities and your home.
That I also remember directly when I enlisted in 1998 the other thing that was blathered about by my recruiting guy was that if I kept my nose clean and got out after even four then I have earned not just the GI Bill but the VA healthcare for life that there was a slew of state and federal programs to assist us.
If you research these programs you realize that you need not only your 214, but all slew of eligibility paperwork from the VA. Of which though some of it is accessible at the website, a whole bunch of it gets denied by the VA because of the VA is wonderful at denial.
Then again, VSO’s will also file any claim, anytime, for anything knowing all along that the claim will be denied. An example: The budget reconciliation act signed by President Reagan back in the 80’s narrowed greatly the parameters concerning burial/plot benefits. Yet every day, CVSO’s and VSO’s will send in a burial benefit claim for a WWII vet knowing that (by law) no benefits can be awarded. It’s the “All they can do is say no” kind of thinking. They make the VA the bad guy while keeping VSO numbers (number of submitted claims up) by telling someone that they’re not eligible. And yes, I work at a VA Pension center, and yes these claims still get worked.
Do the VFW and AL still do funeral honors for Vets? I’ll gladly volunteer for that duty. As I see it, every Vet needs to receive the honors due them when they’re laid to rest.
When I was an active member (single guy) I was part of the Post Color Guard and went to the National Championships and won 2 years in a row in their Drill competition.
We did parades, dedications and funerals. I got to sire the old M4 with blanks a few times, in public in the middle of a major urban area. Gave me quite a boner.
Yeah, I’m in my Legion post’s color guard, and end up doing a handful of funerals and a handful of memorials each year. It doesn’t take much time, and my civilian job is flexible, so it works out well.
And I wasn’t going to comment on Chip having “sired” an old M4 until he got to the part about boners…
That and “In before anyone commenting about me “shooting blanks!” . 😀 😀
AND finally it was an M1 Garand not M4.
Although an M4 would have been COOL.
/how can you tell I’m Chair Force?!?! 😀
I ASSume you were using either an Air Farce or Navy rifle with “THIS END TOWARD ENEMY ” stamped on the barrel. XD :D.
Chip, I imagine it does in fact take quite a boner to “sire” an M4 in public.
Seriously, Jonn, I’m glad to read your thoughts and see these positive responses. I admit to being somewhat baffled by some of the hostility towards the AL and VFW that I’ve seen expressed here. I’m a member of both just by way of showing support for the mission, as I don’t have any really compelling desire to go to the lodges or meetings.
“Firing” .vs “Siring” an old M4. Both painful.
/Got damn Jonn we need an “EDIT” button.
Yep, they sure do, depending upon availability of those able to perform the function.
Being a Guard guy I joined the NGAUS when I was in….probably a good time to consider joining again as I see their site continues to post great stuff about current legislation they are lobbying and work they are doing for Guardsmen and women…
I am not eligible for VFW, but after I retired and the DAV went to bat for me with their service officer local, putting together my package and submitting it to the VA and then, following up with multiple requests for a reconsideration of rating (initially I was giving 10% but now 30%), I certainly appreciated it and let them know so.
As soon as I got my forst check from the VA, I immediately paid for a DAV life membership.
Considering that the local DAV representative did it for FREE, it was the least I could do to represent them.
Also, after joining the American Legion, oh like 22 years past, I did it for the cheap bear and food and because there was one down the street.
Again, I was quite aware about the Congressional representation, and that was important to me. When I got that first VA check, I reconsidered my annual membership, did a cost comparison and then paid for a Life membership.
When I started at one post, my Dues were , I think $20, later when I moved, they went up to $25 at another post. they said “It’s because we have windows” 😀 ) Last time I paid an annual dues payment, it was $40.
IF you are an AL member or are considering Al membership, it may behoove you to consider life membership. Take a look at their new Paid Up For Life (PUFL) offer. It’s supposed to be simpler and has more incentives.
http://www.legion.org/join/pufl
When I did it some years ago, it was based on this chart and I figured I’d break even at like 62 years old and after that it would be free.
If you’re interested and want to get an idea about the cost, google ” american legion PUFL chart” and there are some PDF links out there.
Those specific costs are 5 years old and have been replaced by newer incentives so maybe it’s cheaper.
At least think about it for the political representation that these organizations have for all veterans and our future benefits.
Did it last year.
Money well spent, IMO.
And then you have groups like WWP who let everyone in while claiming everyone has been wounded in combat.
Don’t forget that some of these VSOs also offer some benefits beyond representation and fellowship. For instance, American Legion offers discounts to car rentals.
Thank you for a great post Jonn. You put into words a lot of what I have been feeling about some of the discussions of late regarding the American Legion, American Legion Riders and the Patriot Guard Riders. I belong to DAV, American Legion, American Legion Riders, Patriot Guard Riders and of course, the NRA. As a Patriot Guard Rider, I consider that the best thing I can do to show the colors to those that would protest the funerals of the men and women that served this country that I share with them. I have never seen a protest at a funeral, a house presentation or a welcome home from a combat zone, but I have seen a HUGE turnout for these events and had my heart beat a little stronger at the pride I feel and the honor it is to be allowed to serve yet again. When I got out of the US Army in 1977, there was no pride associated with it. The stank ass hippies had polluted the gene pool with their hate the military horse shit and it was not until Desert Storm I that I finally felt proud to be a Veteran. All of these VSO’s present a positive image to the rest of those Americans that only see or think about us when they happen to drive by. When you get into a procession and they literally close the freeway for you in Galveston County Texas you know that others share your viewpoint and are willing to go out of their way to make sure everybody knows it. Oh, and yes, we all wear those vests with the colors of the PGR and ALR, patches from our service and patches that tell the world who and what we are. For some reason, that seems to piss people off. I don’t care, nor do any of the other riders I share these honors with… So if you want to help support Veterans and others that have served our country in some way, like being a cop, firefighter or some other dangerous profession please… Read more »
Thunderstixx…Well said Sir. You gave me a lot of food for thought and reflection of my previous beliefs. Thank you again.
Jonn is absolutely correct. If you are an officer and not a member of the Military Officers Association of America, you should be. MOAA is rated the number one lobbying VSO on the Hill. Since I am 73 and gave up my military retirement in lieu of a higher civil service retirement (without my VA 40% being deducted from it) I started to drop out. However, with both a son and son-in-law now retired from the military, I suck it up because their bennies and those of the brave men and women now serving are in danger.
Jonn and others – I understand your viewpoints on the reasons to support the various VSO’s out there; they do a service in looking out for all of us that have served. The only thing that holds me back from being a member is how they seem to be handling phonies in their organization – to me is seems like they are leaving it at the local post level (I haven’t seen anything online from any of the organizations National Headquarters making a statement on what they are doing to deal with the issue). If an organization has made a statement and is actively doing something to better vet present and future members wanting to join, I would have no questions about becoming a member.
I’m not expecting a perfect solution – there are asshats that will try and slip in (and eventually get caught) and there will be idiots like Bernath, Wigettfeld and Visconi who will make themselves out to be “Rice Paddy Daddy” and show their asses. Maybe it’s me but every phony that seems to be popping up lately is a member of a VSO – another black eye for the VSO and vets in general.
My mind is still open… maybe I’m not seeing something that the VSO’s are doing to address this.
Thanks for letting me speak my mind (Jonn – if a regular wants to pass anything to me about this, please give them my e-mail address)
I pretty much agree. There’s a way to fix that problem, and I’ve written about that previously:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=47844
IMO, it will take a change to each VSO’s national by-laws making bona fide vetting of applicants and members mandatory – coupled with revocation of the charters of posts/chapters that fail to comply – to fix the situation.
I’m not holding my breath.
Hondo… thanks for the link and I agree with what you previously posted.
Some of the organizations mentioned above around here are in tatters.
They are getting older while they fail in being able to target and recruit the younger generation, which in all fairness to the organization(s), are “disinterested.
This could lead to a “lax” review process.
Not intentional, per se, but more of a “we need people badly” mentality that results in cutting corners.
Additionally, many posts/groups around here are open to the public to maintain themselves financially. And a few, I will say, cater to a very questionable crowd.
It’s that “we need people” mentality that seems to be the problem, and has probably led some of local posts/halls to cut corners on vetting applicants just to keep the doors open.
Something else that crossed my mind this morning – Originally WWI and WWII vets were running the show in the organizations… then the Korean War and Vietnam vets started showing up wanting to join (and probably catching hell about being “losers” and Americans in general having a change in heart about the Military). Now you have a new generation of vets who may be interested in joining, but the Korea and Vietnam vets are running the show (and see how the public is supporting the newest generation of vets) Do you think there may be a bit of jealousy going on between the groups instead of all groups supporting each other because we wore a uniform and served our country?
Again, sorry for the long posts…I guess I’m trying to look at this rationally and may be over analyzing it.
Well said intill my Bo-Bo overseas I never gave any of these groups a second thought now I’m learning with out them life would SUCK ! ! ! ! The big issue I’ve seen is the age gap in these groups they need to open the doors for OIF and OEF Vets instead of slamming it closed in our face
Agreed.
Several of the “Old Guard” are not open to new ideas and beliefs.
Similar to the VA. They are still running it like they did in the 50’s.
Times change and some of these organizations refuse, it seems, to change with them.
It is not the strongest, smartest or fastest that survive the evolutionary process, it is those that can adapt and change.
I want to believe my dues would matter but the reality is they waste a shit ton of money on stupid shit and we simply don’t have the numbers. The Fucking illegal base is more important than veterans because they out number us and all that matters is available voters. So unless the shit hits the fan and our ranks swell significantly we will continue to be ignored regardless of how much money is thrown around especially since vso can’t donate politically which is what really matters.
So pay the dues. Get your monthly magazine. Watch politicians ignore you because you don’t have the voter pool of political donations.
It’s sad but it is what it is.
Excellent post! The dues are a pittance and if one doen’t like the local posts then perhaps consider an at large (no Post) membership. I’m a member of both VFW and AL, but not enough time to be active in one, forget about two. Also, I don’t smoke, don’t drink, but still will grab a meal or a meeting as time permits. VSOs are about the only orgs watching out for us.