Study on Returning Veterans
Kind of an interesting study that resonates with me:
Soldiers returning home from war may find themselves engaged in a battle of “warring identities” as they transition to civilian life….
An analysis of the veterans’ reported experiences shows that many had commonalities to their stories, in particular the sense that their combat experience was something that few could understand and that they felt “alien” among family and friends.
Many of the soldiers also spoke of combat as a time when they felt “safe,” even more so than when returning to the United States. The military is a highly regimented institution where soldiers develop identities that give them a sense of order, obedience, and collectivism, the authors write. When they return home, “behavior is suddenly voluntary and the lack of regimentation (and a larger sense of purpose) is a basis of distress.”
Many soldiers have difficulty creating an identity when they return to civilian life, Smith says.
“You’re making sense of who you are again and that’s a process that we all do in life on a regular basis, but in this case you return and it’s distressing trying to make sense of yourself after this combat experience.
“Within the total institution of the military, while there are threats and harms, it was also profoundly shaping who you were and your sense of self. That order and identity is no longer part of the everyday after exiting the service.”
That last part might seem counter-intuitive, but for me it is totally accurate. The best sleep I’ve had since coming home from A-Stan was when I was back there as a reporter. And my stress level over there was significantly less than it is here at home. Here I worry about bills, meals, talking on the phone, all manner of mundane crap. Over there I just needed to worry about paying attention.
(I used the picture above of me in Afghanistan, because the tall lanky bastard with me just graduated from WO school this past weekend, and is now a Blackhawk pilot. I honestly couldn’t be more proud of him. I remember him telling me he wanted to try to do that, and I remember wondering how his 6-3 ass was going to sit in that seat. Congrats CWO Gibson.)
Category: Politics
I’ve been saying this for years. And people look at me like I’m crazy when I do. How could I miss being deployed? I try to explain, and run up against that lack of shared experience. People who have never experienced making a difference on that scale, living on the razors edge of cause and effect, or the sheer sense of badassery and power don’t understand. And I just don’t have the words to explain it to them.
They wonder why I so stressed out or antsy over missed deadlines, or why I believe its so important that people be held accountable for what they promise and what they deliver. They get frustrated with my attentiont to detail…
And they (intenttionally or not) make me feel like I’m the odd one out. That I’m the broken one. That there is something wrong with me.
After a while, that makes me wonder if they aren’t correct…
Accountability is sorely lacking, you are not wrong those other folks are just biased to their own imperfect world view….I always like two quotes about work, one from Sam Ewing: Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don’t turn up at all.
and this one from Thomas Edison: Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.
That’s why most people can’t get ahead, they don’t want to work hard and get the job done. They just want to get ahead without putting in the effort. They don’t realize that the boss is usually the boss because he worked his ass off to get there…they think that somehow doing just enough to get over is the same as doing a good job….I see it every day….like Sparky says it’s why I hire a veteran when I can because I know what I am getting usually…someone who understands that work is not always fun and sometimes you just have to suck it the fuck up and get it done…
My wife commented on that when I had been back Stateside stationed on a post that trains RC/NG units deploying. She said “You were happier when you were in Iraq”.
The worst part that I went through after I redeployed was having to put up with the incompetence of those whose job was to help us veterans.
The worst one I had to deal with was a veterans representative at my local community college. This woman had absolutely no idea what she was supposed to do regarding the GI Bill paper work or what type of vocational classes that were covered by the GI Bill.
I went to another vocational college where the veteran’s representative actually spent over three hours going over all the paperwork and was on the ball regarding what the GI Bill did or did not cover regarding vocational training. If it was not for this individual, I would have given up on pursuing any kind of secondary education.
This happened to me more than once. Because I was flying a desk when I got back, I got to be pretty proficient at helping Rear D with paperwork crap.
When I got off my orders and began college, I had to show the vet rep how to do the paperwork, who to call, and generally how to do her job.
At my next college, there was a former 0311 in the vet rep position. There were quite a few paperwork snafus, but they cleared up really quickly when a former Army Admin clerk was hired as his workstudy assistant. He was cool, down to earth, and knew what to ask and what not to (unlike some of the other admin weasels at the school).
The regimentation has something to do with it, sure–even if it’s 18-hour days, 7 days a week. But the PEOPLE is what I miss the most, especially when you’re on a small command with 120-130 other guys, all depending quite literally on each other with your lives.
I’ve heard and used the expression, “I don’t miss the Navy, but I miss the people.” There’s something to that. Knowing that there’s someone out there who is going through the same shit you do every day, helping you, you helping them, as opposed to the civilian world, most of whom have never served, have as their three most important words: 1–ME, 2–ME, 3–ME.
Most civilians (well over 90-95 percent) haven’t the first foggiest what it’s like, and it shows in their day-to-day interactions. At least I know when I’m dealing with a veteran, there’s a commonality of experience, regardless of branch or service. I know there’s a far greater chance they’ve BTDT, and have what it takes to pack the gear. I can’t depend on Joe Schmuckatelli down the street like I can someone I’ve served with or who I know has served to do the right thing, or understand that the consequences of their actions go far beyond them.
YMMV.
I remember telling someone who questioned ‘how could you give up all your freedom in the Army?’ – in many respects I had more personal freedom in the Army than I have EVER had as a civilian since then. Always knew my (somewhat meager) pay would arrive, had a pretty good idea what my world was about, and once I became an NCO, other than defined times when they screwed with everyone’s time ‘off’, generally speaking when I was gone I was GONE -no one bothered me or messed with me (except as a platoon sergeant, but I was never really gone in that case.) As a civilian, especially working in the tech industry – I suspect I have not had a true, no communications/no work vacation in well over 20 years.
What I got out of the Navy was a strong work ethic, and yes, like SGT Kane says, an impatience with people who didn’t want to do their job properly or put in a little extra effort or overtime when needed.
The self-gratification – me, first – attitude that I saw after I left the Navy bothered me. It still does.
Glad to know I’m not the only one it annoys.
NHSparky, the stories I could relay about excessive overtime and fixing other people’s crappy work would boggle your mind.
NHSparky, the stories I could tell you about excessive overtime and fixing other people’s crappy work would boggle your mind.
Dead on target as usual, TSO.
Robert E. Lee perhaps put it best: “It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.”
I’ve been back from deployment nearly 6 years now, and out of uniform permanently (retired) approaching 5.
I’ve been glad to be back in the US every day for 6 years. And yet I’ve missed being deployed every damn day, too.
“Playing for keeps” is damned addictive.
I understand the sentiments expressed very well. They bring back some vivid memories. My war and time was long ago. I did not realize until I was home for sometime what the constant anxiety I felt was. Could not put my finger on it. I remember I had a bad case of “house fear” as I called it. At night I could not sleep well and stayed armed with a .45 between the mattress and box springs for years. I slept light and every noise would have me up and checking every door and window…again and agon, to be sure they were secure. I could not reason it out. I knew I was home, near a military base, living in a trailer park with other veterans all around and yet I was still hyer-aware of everything at night. Sometimes even during the day at home alone if I was on swings or graves. I always felt safer on post. Could not put my finger on it. I began to think how I felt somewhat “safer”, over there. I thought that was so foolish at first until I talked with an older vet. He had gone through the same things and helped me a lot. As dangerous as combat can be there was the reality and knowledge of being among others who all protected, defended and constantly look out for each another. I knew I could sleep, when sleep would come, knowing someone was watching over me. It is strange to say I guess but it is a sense of safety and security I didn’t experience or maybe lost, upon returning stateside. I know it sounds absolutely butt backwards to a lot of folks reading this and I can’t really put words to those feelings myself. Even to this day. But that is just the way it was for me. Those days and times and feelings did pass though. Thankfully. Especially for my young wife’s sense of worry and concern. I don’t know If I should even write this. Most here have experienced far worse in combat and in coming home… Read more »
Sparks,
Thanks for what you’ve described. It took me till 2004 to understand what I was going through after ETS. It wasn’t until I went to a VA vet’s group that I’ve figured most of it out. From early on, cut out old high school buddy’s that found it convenient to remain civilians, etc. just didn’t have anything in common with them anymore.
Oh, I have to laugh about your “arsenal at bedside”. When I got out I did the same thing. I had my loaded (chamber empty, perhaps) deer rifle along my bed plus my .357 S&W under the pillow.
Let me know if you read this, dinner is on and I’m getting into trouble.
Steve
One of the biggest things that bothered me when I came back was most people pretending a war wasn’t going on unless they were trying to make a political point.
Twist thank you and well said. I experienced the same. Even from family sometimes.
With the widening of the civilian-military gap, and the misunderstanding of the military by civilians and politician, this study hits home.
Civilians watch Hollywood movies about the military and think that is how it is. Then poser(s) come out and tell their daring dos and exploits, and the gap gets wider.
When I read about the Ranger on his 8th or 9th deployment getting killed, one wonder who is doing the fighting.
When the veteran returns home, he adjusts with, at times, confusing results… and society does as well.
I remember those days as well, transitioning from military life to retired/civilian life. It took a long time to adjust, over a year. Even now, I still feel the odd man out, watching the civilians, both at work and on the street, with their lack of situational awareness and responsibility. After 20 years in, the lessons learned run deep, and are not easily rooted out.
And yes, even after 15 years retired and out, I still miss “the life”, both for goals and sense of purpose, and the brotherhood and camaraderie.
There is also the element of all the cool stuff. No better Big Boy Toys than the Mil. It is very comforting to know that jobs will get done and if not someone will make sure problems get fixed. Accountability makes life very easy.
I wanted to respond to each of you but you each spoke about the subject so well, I will write a blanket thank you to all of you. You all hit it on the head and countersunk it to be sure. Here-Here and thank you all again for your posts. I hold each of you in the highest regard and respect for your service.
To CBSenior though, you are especially right. Nothing else in life is like playing with the big military toys was. Nothing later in my life ever came close to those experiences. I think that is one of the voids I still feel on occasion and think about. To be in a place where I could use those “tools” and it was not only okay, it was necessary, needed and encouraged. You just can’t find those kinds of “gap fillers” in civilian life. I hate to use the word “thrills” but nothing else comes to mind. Pardon me if I misused the term. I hope you guys understand what I am saying here.
ugh, coming from deployment where there was a purpose and real responsibility to a college setting was the worst for me. I excelled in class and had no problem showing up while I had to hear the complaints of little shits regarding everything. As a student there was very little respect given by professors to students and it pissed me off especially since we were paying their salary.
I’ll never lose my military mindset, but I have adjusted to accept shitbags as the norm now and to be completely honest not much excites me any longer.
FatCircles0311 well said. I had the same experience when I used the G.I. Bill way back when. I treated the professors somewhat like officers. With respect. The younger folks around me were like high school sophomores. All yap, piss and vinegar and No experience in life. Not including though, our own TAH HS Sophomore, who is a true stand up guy.
uhh circles?
In the civilian world we refer to shitbags as private sector employees…I thought everyone got the memo?
Whew, that articles explains a lot. I thought I might be a potential serial killer or something. I always felt comfortable going out the wire. relaxed even. I know that being aware, and comfortable in my role had a lot to do with it. I have been back from my last deployment for more than three years, and was recently wondering why I was so uncomfortable in crowds but never felt that way when I was in a crowd in Iraq. Even surrounded by detainees. I think a lot of my comfort came from having the means to protect myself, and having comrades that would bring the fury of hell fire upon anyone that would try to harm me. My gunner would ask me if I had my back plate in whenever I dismounted outside the wire. Shit, I felt alive over there. Now, I just feel old and used up.
Glad they did a study, but it’s the same same, different war (s). I believe the vast majority of Combat vets especially, have felt this for thousands of years. This is how all the service organizations got started. A place guys could go to be with guys that understood. Yep, trying to get the government to honor their promises for benefits, but really they started to maintain the comradeship they felt in war. I couldn’t wait to get out of Vietnam. Then back, I wished I could go back. Weird feelings. I couldn’t stand straight people, couldn’t stand hippies. Joined a MC Club because most of the guys were vets. It felt good at the time. There will never be a “cure” for this. Just ask Audie.
All of your posts bring back so many memories for me.
I came back from Vietnam Jan. 16 1972 and was discharged two days later. Feb. 1st. I was back at college doing what I had been doing before being drafted. Being a student, and playing college baseball. Things weren’t the same. I’d gone from being a carefree kid, to a serious adult. I remember standing out in the outfield during batting practice. Looking around, asking myself “What am I doing” it all seemed surreal, like a dream.
OK, I finally got off from work, so here’s my two cent’s worth, I’d appreciate it if y’all would tell me what you think. I originally enlisted for a three year AD hitch in the Army (91-94), I missed out on Desert Shield/Storm (It was over with before I even got to Boot Camp), Somalia, and I felt like just another POGUE when I ETS’ed that tour (The Clinton Curse had begun then), but 9/11 happened, and as soon as I found out I could get back in, and doing so WOULD get me deployed, I accepted “Uncle Sugar’s” offer. I went NG, thus I got to keep my civilian job and house I had just bought, but hey, I would finally get sent someplace “to do something for real”. After I got back from my first ME tour in A-stan, I came right back to my civilian employer which for the most part treated me like dogshit on the sidewalk, and yeah, I had problems readjusting. sometimes I’d get some puke trying to play “Billy-Bob Badass” with me at work, and I’d have to get in their face and let them know that “I OBEY MY PTSD!!” which made them back down, but a big part of me misses my “Buds” that I deployed with, some of which I still keep in touch with, and I still serve with a couple of them, getting to get together with them is something I find VERY theraputic. After my second ME tour in Kuwait (Nothing to brag about, I was just another rear-echelon “pogue” on that stint), I once again came back to my civilian employer, where the new HR manager scowled and talked down to me like I was the lowest pile of scum on the face of the Earth, but OH WELL, screw her, she’s just another Corporate EEO hire! Maybe i oughtta spend some more time at a new AL Post near me that has a lot of younger ME Vets as Members, I always like stopping by my VFW Post for a beer and the chance to… Read more »