Something I Want You to Think About
When I got out of the Army in 2009, Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan were committing suicide at a rate of roughly 12 a day. That would be one every two hours. Now they’re up to at least 22 a day. That’s almost one an hour. So here’s something I’d like you to consider; May 17th is the 137th day of the non leap year. If the rate remains the same as last year (which all evidence seems to suggest is actually increasing) at 22 Veterans a day, that means that so far this year we’ve lost 3,014 Veterans to suicide.
So, while your going about your day today I challenge you to think of a way you can help curb that number. The VA isn’t coming to save us, and the American public at large are more interested in the false operas of the Kardashians and the Mall, so I challenge each and every member of the community to come up with a way to save our brothers and sisters.
If you really support our troops, then say to yourself at some point today: 3,014, and resolve to do more than wear red or put a yellow ribbon on your car. Find something constructive to end this epidemic.
Category: Politics
You’re right.
Thank you for the reminder. To hear the numbers like that is truly horrifying.
I don’t know. I don’t have an answer. I will, however, give it some thought.
I was a peacetime Marine. I can’t fathom what our wartime Servicemen and women are going through. I haven’t suffered a terrible wound in battle. I’m hale and whole.
But I’m a good listener. I just gotta find someone to listen to.
I have no idea how or what to do but I’m willing to do anything to help. But as I’m not a vet I can’t imagine the hell you guys are put through. So other then saying I care and being there for someone to talk to or lean on, I don’t know how to help and just saying I would seems worthless. I feel like I should say I’m sorry and I will to anyone that needs to hear it.
Like many have pointed out on this blog previously, more feel-good training is not going to do anything. We take care of our own pretty well, though. That’s the key. We tend to police our own better than any amount of medication ever could.
I guess the most constructive thing to do is know when someone needs the kick in the ass for being lazy or screwing up or when they need that quiet little walk and talk because something just isn’t right.
What a ridiculous number. I think this isn’t a result of combat but rather a cultural issue from a society that is very instant gratification. Add that to the high possibility of anger and shame regarding how we don’t fight to win anymore while our own leaders undermine our efforts makes for a very bleak future after having sacrificed.
I’d like to know who exactly are killing themselves regarding their operational history and whether they felt their sacrifice and their other service members were wasted due to their leaders actions.
It’s no secret our nation has also become very securely with religion taking a back seat to personal fulfillment except when your leadership is against you and your government is against you and you’re in a tough spot what else is going to drive these people to keep fighting? Faith can and does and I think that’s something people don’t want to discuss but should.
Almost a year ago, MG Dana Pittard CG of Fort Bliss drew national attention for a blog post concerning suicides…http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=30131
Suicide among veterans is a very important matter, which is all the more reason for everyone to get their facts straight. The recent VA study that came up with the 22 veterans a day statistic was looking at the suicide rate among ALL veterans, not just veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, one of the main findings of that study was, “more than 69% of Veteran suicides are among those age 50 years and older.” Almost one third of this number were aged 70 and above. Now I know its been over 10 years since recent events kicked off and all, but it seems quite clear that the vast majority of veteran’s suicides are NOT vets of Iraq and Afghanistan.
“For it’s Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy go away, but it’s ‘Thank you, Mr. Atkins’ when the band begins to play.” –Rudyard Kipling
#4 has a point, which I’ll add my spin to. I have yet to lose a Soldier to suicide, and can only hope it never happens. Still, I can understand where some of the grief and pain comes from, especially for those still serving. More than a few veterans probably feel that same pain years after leaving the service. Houston recruiting battalion had its fourth suicide in less than three years just before I reported to Baton Rouge battalion. Recruiters at the time faced toxic leadership within, and all-too-often also faced hostile, or at least unfriendly, civilians in the community. Those of you who recruited years ago may simply dismiss this as the nature of the job, but immerse a multiple-tour combat veteran (something the Army hasn’t seen much of since Vietnam) used to success as a leader into that environment and it is obvious why so many Recruiters took their own lives. There is nothing quite so telling about a command as when a slick-sleeved (no combat patch) SFC, 1SG, or CSM who’s spent the entirety of the current war in USAREC feels righteous in threatening the career of an Infantryman who until recently had been trying his best to keep his Soldiers alive in combat. USAREC is a small community within the Army. As a whole, active-duty Soldiers now face multiple deployments, thankless assignments, seniors who do not look out for them, and the possibility of QSP or QMP–“thanks for your service, here’s the door”. Senior NCOs no longer fight for their subordinates, or attempt to help them progress in their careers (in my experience). “I got mine” seems to be the mentality, and “needs of the Army, needs of the unit, then needs of the Soldier” is brought up whenever a junior Soldier or NCO tries to voice their concern over their current or projected assignments. Prior service is dismissed on a whim, and with that dismissal, lost friends and acquaintances become marginalized by the very “support channel” we as Soldiers are trained to look up to. Veterans may feel some of that same disillusionment with their… Read more »
Not buying the ‘stats’ you quote, sorry. Not saying it’s not a problem that needs to be addressed, just not as extreme/epidemic as you and some others profess. There is a LOT of money in counseling and treatment of every disease/disorder/crisis and this topic is no different. Just keep an open mind, consider the source and get a second opinion before jumping on a bandwagon.
Okay, Doc. I’ll bite, where do you get your 22 per day data from? Checking CDC NVSR’s 2011 report(nvsr61_06.pdf) they do not list daily numbers. What they do list are total suicides per year and then those are broke down into categories but nothing turns up for veterans. The rate for suicide is 12.3 per 100,000 US population.
Intentional self-harm (suicide) – 38,285, 12.3
Intentional self-harm (firearm) – 19,766, 6.3
Intentional self-harm (by other, unspecified and means of sequelae) – 18,519, 5.9
@10. I’ve seen the stats of 22/day but they include ALL Veterans. And the spike in that rate is attributable to a jump in suicides among Veterans 50+. I have looked at a number of studies and I am forced to conclude that there isn’t any difference between the civilian and active duty/Veteran rate of suicides, notwithstanding the talk of an epidemic, a term carelessly used and widely quoted, thanks to Leon Panetta. The immediately preceding sentence may prompt a ‘battle of the studies’ here but, if so, that battle will exclude me. I see no value in such a battle. The challenge presented seems a bit unfair. The whys, wherefores, and other questions attendant to the suicide rate among Americans–Veterans or not–is beyond my capability to accept.
Recruiters at the time faced toxic leadership within, and all-too-often also faced hostile, or at least unfriendly, civilians in the community.
It’s not just that, but that was also my experience in the mid- to late-90’s in recruiting. Even members of my own family had no idea what service entailed. I’m the only one of my extended family on either side since both my grandfathers served in WWII. And going from an environment where the zero defect mentality not only was a good idea but necessary for survival to a situation where half-assed was the way of the day, and you can imagine the stress I felt at times, both from my command and the civilian population.
Of course, Mike, we threw money at it, there cant be a real problem anymore.
when i got out in 06, i was pretty messed up in the head. i didnt adjust well to civilian life and found a lot of comfort at the bottom of a bottle. i dont think i actually tried to kill myself, but i sure didnt try hard not to. i pushed the evelope on everything i did almost seeking my death. fortunatly for me, i have many family members that are military and had an idea what i was dealing with. I dont buy the PTSD excuse and never used it, but i know i had some issues. i came out of my funk a few years later and have managed to get my life going in a productive direction, but how many vets get out and dont have that immidiate support to fall back on?
Something that works, but has been publicly critisized, was Chris Kyle’s method of taking vets out to a fireing range. He had great results and helped soldiers better come to grips with their issues and adjust into civilian life. From personal expirience, i think having someone that is willing to be there that has been in your shoes can make all the difference. Having that familiar act of going shooting can relax ya and, at least temporarily, eliminate the anxiety that you are dealing with.
I remember the climate in my unit when I first ETS’ed in94, it was “Up yours, me first!”. The CO and 1SG were politicians, and getting sold out was an everyday occasion. Today’s Troops are told to “Suck it up and stay motivated” and the morons in charge think that a bunch of death by PowerPoint is the solution, and we know it isn’t. I’m staying vigilant, anyone I can help out, I will!
@11- Not looking for a battle of the studes either but it has me wondering where the figures Doc quoted are derived from. I am a 50+ veteran and though I have been in rough spots in my time, I have yet to contemplate suicide. If fact, it is the furthest thing from my mind and I don’t know why. Maybe it was my formative years of working livestock, trudging through thigh deep snow to rescue injured/lost hunters, downed small aircraft or going on river/lake rescues that turned into recoveries.
Leon Panetta is and always will be an elitist, political hack from (UCSB) Santa Barbara in my book. Why he tossed that word “epidemic” out there? IMO, he used it for political fodder and following marxist party line of besmerching veterans and active duty service. It has gone on since at the very least Korea, picked up full steam during Vietnam and kept in the foreground since.
Maybe I’m just jaded and cynical, but whenever I hear about an “outreach” program, especially involving veterans, I automatically wonder who is getting paid and how much. The VA is constantly trying to gin up some program through which folks can justify their paychecks, and also to divert attention from their generally lackluster performance.
I’m also cynical enough to know that the VA, especially under a leftist administration, is more than happy to pair up with Hollywood and other leftists in pushing the “veteran as a victim” or “broken veteran” meme. they want nothing more than to show ALL of us as some sort of victim, tyo be cared for by their enslaving government programs, to impale all of us on the velvet fangs of dependency to a benevolent dictator.
So, color me jaded that this nation is actually losing 22 veterans a day to suicide, or that there is a causal relationship between military service separate from all other contributing factors.
But I’ve learned this much: Whenever a VA doctor or other “caregiver” asks me how I’m doing, I’ll always smile and say “Finest Kind!” I don’t trust them with my mental health in any way shape or form, and from what my experience has shown, you’re a damned fool if you do.
YMMV, but that’s how I see thi8ngs.
Part of the problem that exists is servicemembers are getting a cocktail of meds to help with depression/sleep disturbances, etc., with little else being done to figure out why they are experiencing the troubles they do – and when counseling IS part of the fix, the counselors have little knowledge about the challenges/stress both the military and combat brings. If no where else, as it was while I was in uniform, I believe we can help the person to the left and right of us (who are veterans and others), just like we did while we were in. Most of us have similar experiences. Sometimes we just need to know when to stop, shut up, and listen.
USMCE8Ret: good point. Antidepressants are one of those often prescribed, if I understand correctly. And if I recall correctly, many antidepressants are also linked to an increased rate of suicide – either while taking them, or when someone taking them quits “cold turkey”.
We ARE our brothers keeper.
I have had the misfourtune of seeing our brothers and sisters at their lowest- What is worst is the dishonored, guys who cracked and and went to drugs to cope and and were DD. They recive no help at all.
I know that it was the individual choice to do the drugs- the reason the stresses of military life on the individual and the family are universal, as it applies to honored and dishonored vets. Its hard to watch and not be able to help.
Some of us have faith backgrounds: which is more precious then gold. But other do not. I have always belived that Faith Groups should recive some flexabilty and some form of VA assistance in some form. They do help: they ask for very little. Beats the damn drugs they pump into our brethern and walk away when they cant stop.
I’ll always say: The Nation is weak- Because the Family is weak. The Family is weak beacuse the Man is weak. For one to be strong all must be strong. Man referes to the individual-
What’s interesting is that a full 50% of servicemembers who commit suicide have NEVER deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, and 80% have NEVER SEEN COMBAT!
It may not just be a problem unique to the military, and may be “generation-related”.
I am a high school administrator in my non-USAR life, and this week alone, three of my students have threatened suicide over…..academic or realtionship issues!
Ten years ago, this happened so rarely that I can’t even remember it.
It seems to be a media-driven, ADHD, immediate gratification” generation, more that “PTS” (no “D” because most of us has some form of PTS!)
Another factor (In My Humble Opinion), 16 million men served in WWII. When they returned, there were 10 veterans who were your neighbors. If you were having a bad day, you could call your neighbor, and go have a few beers in his garage and talk about that shared experience.
Now, I know one other guy in my town who served in Iraq. Remember, <1% of this nation is in uniform, and life goes on for the rest of America. Despite a hyper-focused emphasis on suicide prevention from all levels of command, The Army is at War, America is at the mall.
You’re absolutely right, Sustainer! I came back into the NG after a 9 year break in Service, and I’ve done A-stan and Kuwait since. Both times I came home to a Civilian Employer that gave me lip service about my overseas time and treated me like trash.
There may be several factors behind a climb in these rates, if it’s for veterans:
Lack of available jobs, which means loss of income
Being separated from a group of people whose most recent experiences are the same as yours, and finding no one interested in listening to what you went through
Loss of a sense of purpose
Something similar to the hormonal changes that occur in post-partum depression
I don’t know what prescriptions the VA is handing out these days for emotional disorders, but I wouldn’t just swallow them like an obedient child. I would sure as hell ask about the side effects, and if you can’t get an answer, go to the nearest drugstore with the prescriptions and ask the pharmacists about side-effects.
Also, Military Pathways has ads for steptohealing dot org, which is a free screening holtine, on a local TV station.
The VA still has those drop-in centers, which is where Vietnam combat vets went to get into groups and get “it” out of their systems. There was no obligation to go to a VA counselor, and no one was dosed to death. If those groups have stopped gathering, then the VA could start them up again and right now. They cost nothing.
@20 – You observed “What’s interesting is that a full 50% of servicemembers who commit suicide have NEVER deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, and 80% have NEVER SEEN COMBAT!”
I’ve seen that somewhere as well. If there’s any truth in that assertion, my guess is that mommy and daddy’s little special darling have trouble assimilating into military culture and actually being held responsible for some things -namely their behavior and being held to a higher standard, coupled (perhaps) with being treated as an adult. Lots of younger kids don’t have the coping skills to deal with it, which is sad to say. That may have something to do with it, but I’m no head doctor. (Just making an observation).
I retired in ’05 and am an over 50 veteran. Retirement can be rough, and I have had my problems fitting in the civilian world. Most civilians have turned out to be weasels, with no sense of honor or duty. It was my great fortune to have a support network made up of people I served with. They were literally saved my life at times.
@ #2: You have unwittingly identified a huge part of the problem. And I want to compliment you on your candor. Thank you.
Having outsiders intrude into a veteran’s life and pain is often just adding to the pile the vet is carrying. In other words, more often than not, it is counter productive. And there is no more effective solution for veterans than there is in the population at large.
If I may suggest, V, that you keep reading, continue to hang around here, and keep your eyes open for the vet (or anyone else) who is obviously suffering and simply offer your support. Could be a smile. Could be sitting quietly for a while. Could me more, depending.
What I am suggesting, V, is to continue educating yourself on the real needs of veterans and be observant of those around you, prepared to offer that smile or a reassuring handshake. Or whatever you are capable of offering. Just do not minimize the positive effect that a very small gesture can make.
The rest of us should probably be a bit more proactive.
Here’s a link to the PDF report on the VA site regarding this issue if anyone is interested in the data collection and reporting methods.
https://www.va.gov/opa/docs/Suicide-Data-Report-2012-final.pdf
Children, young children are attempting and completing suicide in unprecedented numbers in this country, also. Whatever is causing this, I don’t think it’s just the experience in the military.
As a veteran that has worked with many homeless, alcoholic drug addicted Veteran’s for over 24 years I know that those crutches frequently grabbed onto contribute to a lot of the despair that many of us feel.
Treatment at VA Hospitals for those things are good, here in Milwaukee, we have a great system set up for rescue of them before they go over the edge.
I try to talk to young Veteran’s a lot and am now working with a young Marine that is obviously having a hard time readjusting to civilian life.
If nothing else, just go to the VA hospital and sit down somewhere, start talking to someone and let them know you care about them. Sometimes that can help them more than anything. I do that frequently and take my daughter down there with me sometimes on holiday weekends just to talk to them as nobody shows up for a lot of them when they need them the most.
I spent a lot of time in the VA here for medical issues and know the loneliness that comes from being cooped up in that place for long periods of time.
Without preaching I would also like to say that I am on a spiritual journey, and it is not the destination that counts, it is the journey.
I use to sit in the bar and be a counselor by just listening & relating . Then they would ask why I wasn’t a counselor Bla hahahaha – We’ll leave that to the dogs to answer . I am a Tramp , A worthless piece of American minded garbage . A no good muther fucker- and dam unworthy of any such office . Just a problem that decided to get out of so called society before I became their next victim in a cage . Being I was a addict , Alcoholic substance abuser – when released from the military thanks to my commanding officers . . Most Vet’s go to the VA once or twice . If they encounter the same as I did- Fuck the low life pretend cocksuckers is what comes to mind . The Va was full of punk fucks that were more interested in impressing the twit next to them of the opposite sex now0days could be same sex . More ” than to waste their precious ball licking time being a help to those that had a problem they actually could not relate to . Well times have changed , this country is fucked by a bunch of tyranny minded squat to piss pieces of shit that want nothing more than to blame the person resigning and get away with their monster size gratuities promised from the multitudes of economical rapist’s perched upon the wires of Freedom awaiting to prey on American values . Fuck The shit wad’s committing open treason are so fucking abundant we need to glass over Washington D.C more than send anyone out of the country for a bogus weapons manufacturers glory parade of sales War my ass . The sniveling rodents in the mix that ask fora job helping , then when they get it – just want to go vent to another disgruntled shitstain after getting pissed that someone actually asked them to do something . But send them their check and can they have a raise for the worthless efforts they attempt to perform in the… Read more »
@29 Insanity in a Box: Just like those folks in the bars used to talk to you, you can talk to us. Most of the posters here are vets, and will hear — and understand — what you say.
Yeo. There is usually someone around here who will listen.
There’s a lot that needs to be done to fix the problem. #1- Care for soldiers. Both the quality and the availability. When I was in Iraq, I worked on a Combat Stress Control team, and after I got back from Iraq, I was talking to a good friend of mine who served in Iraq 2 or 3 years before me. I was telling him about the mission of CSC (Combat Stress Control) and I felt really bad to know that he had NO IDEA that CSC was even an option to him when he was in. Part of the CSC mission is to take the treatment to the troops. You go out to them….and when my friend was in Iraq, he would have been the perfect candidate for something like that. And yet, he never even knew anything about it. When soldiers actually do know about CSC and try to use it, they are shunned or outright yelled at. There was a particular Field Artillery unit that was stationed at Camp Taji while I was there. We kept seeing A LOT of their soldiers come into our clinic and A LOT of them had multiple complaints about leadership in the unit. So one of our psychiatrists decided to go and speak with their CO and 1SG, seeing as how we thought we had a rapport with them. Their 1SG’s name was 1SG Davis, which is my last name so he automatically took a liking to me and in the DFAC the 1SG and the CO would come sit with us. So no harm in approaching them with concerns about their soldiers’ wellbeing, right? Not so. The very next day one of our many friends from the unit came to us and said the command had called them all into formation and called them “fuckers” and berated them for going to CSC. They also basically let them know that CSC was now off limits to them and threatened them if they decided they wanted to go back and complain. WTF!? It’s horror stories like that that really piss me off.… Read more »
@32 That wasn’t rambling — that was excellent, and I was very interested in what you had to say.
Well thank you, PintoNag.