Scores of dead in CT
The Hartford Courant reports that there are 27 dead including 18 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT where a single shooter opened fire with a couple of handguns. Fox News reports that at least one of the guns was a Glock, you know – those handguns which have minds of their own and inspire fear among gun control advocates. The other was a Sig Sauer.
Fox also says that the gunman had a “.223-caliber rifle” so he couldn’t have been using the terrifying AK-47. MSNBC says that no one has mentioned the rifle to them. But, the MSNBC reporter just said that there was no word if the shooter used “high capacity ammunition clips”, so I’m not sure if they know the difference between a pistol and a rifle.
MSNBC broadcast news is reporting that another person has been apprehended in regards to this shooting. Other news sources aren’t confirming the “second shooter” theory.
Of course, some folks can’t wait to get in their shots against gun rights;
Alex Pappas at The Daily Caller has some more reactions from the Liberals on Twitter. Twitchy records more knee-jerk reactions from the usual suspects.
White House Press Secretary Jay Carney on the shooting;
“There is, I am sure, will be, rather, a day for discussion of the usual Washington policy debates, but I do not think today is that day.”
Well, when they have that discussion, remember this; I went to the range yesterday with several of my weapons. Among those weapons was a Glock (with a large capacity magazine) and two .223 caliber rifles, also with large capacity magazines. I had about 1,000 rounds of ammunition. I drove by at least two schools on my way to the range in Maryland. None of my weapons jumped out of the truck and began shooting up those schools, neither did I.
Whoever this shooter was, (MSNBC says his name is Ryan Adam Lanza, 24 years old – his mother was a teacher at Sandy Hook and she was found dead at the school) he broke several laws to accomplish his grisly task today. How is it possible to write more laws to prevent something that was already steeped in illegality?
ADDED: Our buddy, Blanka, sends a link from USAToday in which they mention that Lanza was “dressed in military style assault gear”. That’s not what caused the incident, either. I was wearing Multicam – the style of uniforms Army troops wear in Afghanistan – at the range yesterday, and I wasn’t even tempted to shoot another person. The MSNBC reporter said that Lanza was wearing “dark” clothes “with pockets” – so we should be banning pockets now, I suppose.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists, Guns
OOPS
Number of gun deaths per 100,000 people in Great Britain – .22 Number of gun deaths per 100,000 people in U.S. – 9. That’s a 41 fold increase in our country. I think those numbers speak for themselves.
Joe: if you prefer security to liberty, then move to Great Britain. No one is stopping you.
Don’t let the door hit you on the ass as you leave.
I don’t equate a nation bristling with guns with the concept of security. How much security did the innocent little kids in Newtown have?
Joe: Perfect security is a myth. Life involves risk.
However, to answer your question: they had the same amount of security that the kids in Dunblame and Hungerford had when insane fools killed 17 persons (most of whom were children) in each location some years ago before committing suicide. They used guns in each case. In the UK.
However, had even ONE person on the staff at that CT school been armed and trained yesterday, there’s a reasonable chance all of the kids would still be alive – though the office staff likely would not be.
Oh, and by the way, Joe – care to address Switzerland? If you think the US is “bristling with guns”, you ain’t seen nothing.
Yeah, and they have mandatory military service, beaucoup training, and well, Switzerland is a civilized country.
So if you find the US too “uncivilized” for your tastes, Joe – then move to Switzerland. Or to the UK. The rest of us will applaud as you leave. Hell, I’ll send some $$$ to help defer the costs of your one-way ticket – after you use it and produce evidence you’ve renounced your US citizenship.
If either the UK or Switzerland will have you, that is. I have my doubts.
Again Joe–apples/oranges. Compare VIOLENT CRIME RATE between here and GB.
But something tells me you’ve already done that, and didn’t like the result.
But here’s a bit for you to chew on, sonny:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
@156: Cool figure you’re throwing out there, Joe. So; can you tell me the stats on violent crime per 100,000? How about telling me that it’s morally superior for a woman to be found strangled with her own pantyhose, raped, and killed rather than her explaining to the cop why the guy is laying there properly ventilated. It’s dumbasses like you that think you have the right to tell someone how they are supposed to be able to protect themselves, because you haven’t experienced your life being in danger from someone physically superior to yourself, or a group of people wishing to do you harm. Some day you may understand, but I doubt it. I personally know 2 women that have become armed citizens because of experiences that have caused them to be that way. Go look up Castle Rock vs. Gonzales and then come back and tell us that it should be up to chuckleheads like you to determine whether we have the right to protect ourselves as we see fit. We have that right despite chuckleheads like you.
As for the “automatic” rifle you were blubbering about at the top of the page…….he never used it, because it was found in his vehicle. Plus, you were being your usual lying ass by stating that it was and “automatic rifle” to begin with, when you had no fucking idea what you were talking about (which is SOP for you) from the start. You mentioned the picture that Jonn put up of his firearms that he took to the range……surprise!!! Not one of them killed anyone that day, but it doesn’t fit your pussyassed agenda so you throw it out there trying to make a point that has nothing to do with the tragedy in CT. It was just you being a dumbfuck as always.
Now, some reports are saying that Lanza shot his way into the school, that no one buzzed him in. So, how far would he have gotten if there were one armed and trained person in the office? Or, if they’d simply installed security glass in the doors, along with an armed person inside? http://www.swissshade.com/fauser_security_windows.htm
Rupert Murdoch just tweeted about wanting an assault weapons ban:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/12/murdoch-calls-for-automatic-weapons-ban-152057.html
@167: Of course he does, because “assault weapons” were the reason for this………even though NONE were used. That’s like when Mayor Bloomberg called for stricter gun control when he found out about the Times Square bomber. Makes sense to call for bans on weapons not even used. That’s like going to your doctor for sinus issues and he wants to schedule you for prostate surgery. Those that are ignorant, uninformed, and emotional will always wet their pants and make emotional calls for banning things that have nothing to do with the reality of any given situation. It reminds me of a scene in a MASH episode, where Margaret is missing and Frank accidentally shoots BJ. When Col. Potter asks him what happened, Frank says “I think the Chinese have Margaret” and Col. Potter says “I see, so you naturally shot BJ”. Same mindset going on here.
NHSparky: isn’t it interesting how a UK paper documents the fact that the US has a lower violent crime rate (466 total violent crimes per 100,000 residents) than the UK, Austria, Sweden, Belgium, Canada, Finland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and France – all of which have much more strict gun control than the US.
It’s also interesting that the areas in the US with the most draconian gun control seem to in general have the highest rates of violent crime.
Indeed, based on those two facts alone one could conclude that gun control laws are counterproductive, and that the threat of facing an armed citizen capable of defending himself/herself with deadly force actually drives down the rate of violent crime.
And in point of fact, I’d guess one can show can show there is effectively no correlation between the “strictness” of gun control laws (as measured by Brady Score) and the rate of murder by firearms. Oh, wait – I think that someone already has.
But fools like Joe don’t want to hear any of that. Like the Brady Foundation, they’re convinced unconditionally that “guns . . . bad” – even when reality proves otherwise.
I’m certain they also believe in unicorns that shit Skittles and Santa Claus too, and that Social Security is just “insurance” and will be solvent forever – but those are different subjects.
Looks like authorities have email and other evidence from this guy that may shine light on his motives. Wouldn’t be surprised if there was some manifesto.
Like I said before, I’m sure his motive was simply that he was one of those isolated loners that felt alienation at a world that seemed to “ignore” him. He needed to ‘validate’ his existence to the world, and like Choi, the mall shooter, or the Colorado theater shooter, wanted to do it in a way that was so shocking and horrifying, that it would forever be remembered throughout history.
This is the informational digital world we live in where everyone wants to be “famous,” it’s just that some weird ones take it too far.
I noticed that Joe hasn’t been back to refute the facts. Actually, I didn’t think he would, because as I have stated before; leftists and anti-gunners function on emotion, not logic and fact. Rupert Murdoch, Nanny Bloomberg, the Brady Bunch, David Frum, Joe, etc. always use tragic issues to push their emotionally based agenda without facts, or with cherry picked data. Some, like Chuckie Schumer, do it intentionally for their own control agenda.
@ 153 – I agree with you in relation to growing government control. Frankly, it scares the hell out of me too. I came from a country that was still under Communist rule when I was born. It took Poland years to recover from it. I just wish there was an answer to this, especially in relation to preventing such incidents. At one point in my life, I led a less than honorable existence. But it was also an experience that opened my eyes to some truly heinous behaviors. I have no doubt that the people exhibiting them belonged locked up before they blew their gaskets. But how to warn others? What progressive actions to take? Tell the police? And then what? Would a mental health department truly take the time and money to “fix” the person? There are so many issues that present themselves in this CT situation that beg for authoritative involvement. All in all, like everyone else here, I’m utterly shaken by what has happened.
@170 you hit the nail on the head
Look at this unbelievable coincidence. Are we going to ban Ginsu knives as well?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/man-stabs-22-children-in-china.html?_r=0
You know what the scariest irony of all is?
That there are dozens, maybe even more, of guys like this across America.
And they are watching the news media, and seeing how it has touched people from across the world.
They see all this media furor and attention, and now in their twisted minds, they want that same attention. But now they feel that they have to “outdo” the previous shootings, and up the ante. It is sickening, but these incidents do seem to have escalated, going from movie theater shooting to mall shooting (which, thankfully, did not go as fully planned as the shooter wanted it to), and now targeting innocent children.
@Tman – “You know what the scariest irony of all is?
That there are dozens, maybe even more, of guys like this across America.”
The only solace is that there are multitudes upon multitudes more of gun owners such as we, who would risk our lives to stop them.
But, CI, these people target places where they don’t think anything else is breaking the rules in order to shoot back. Weapons, any weapons, are not allowed on school campuses. when I had aspirations of becoming a teacher, I was going to have a baseball bat in my classroom. Technically, not a weapon…
CI, Miss Ladybug does bring up a good point, as did Poetrooper’s thread, in that there is definitely a sort of ‘rhyme and reason’ for these shooters, in that they clearly choose a location where there is a presumption that no one is armed.
I’m not sure if this is a conscious thought process on the part of the shooters. By that, I mean, I don’t know if they pick a location thinking no one’s armed, or if they just pick a location based on it being a place where everyone is in a relatively peaceful setting, where there is absolutely no expectation of violence, perfect for catching people unaware to promote maximum damage.
As for a school setting, I just don’t know the answer. I think having regular drills is a start. I read that in the mall shooting, the shooter’s gun jammed, but at the same time people quickly sprung into action when they realized a guy was shooting. One of the mall workers escorted people out.
@177&178 – Absolutely; I wasn’t trying to argue otherwise. What I was partially implying, is that I think we’re likely to see in the near future, instances of intended homicidal violence in ‘gun-free zones’ met with acts of rampant lawlessness by otherwise law abiding, gun-carrying Sheepdogs.
Frankly I think both sides of the political spectrum use these shootings for political gain, the right scream that less gun control would have prevented this tragedy, while the left are screaming for more gun control. It is a very tragic situation we find ourselves in. The only thing that is a fact is that there are a lot of mental cases out there getting their hands on weapons. Maybe it’s the video games these people play day in and day out that desensitize them towards killings or maybe it’s the prescription drugs doctors prescribe kids for ADD that screws them up when they become adults. It could also be the amount of sugars people consume in sodas and sport drinks to take them over the edge. Who the hell knows? To turn to name calling for someone’s opinion is childish and un-American. If you can’t debate the issues with pros and cons for your argument than you need shut the hell up cause nobody coming to get your guns cause of what happen in CT. The government is not going to do anything just like with other problems facing America for example immigration. They’re not sending illegals back it’s all political. No politician is willing to tackle the problems we face because it will be political suicide and they wouldn’t get elected or reelected. That is way we are at a political standstill.
Right now, somewhere in America, some honked-off wanker with a brain the size of a pea is planning another copycat crime. First was the Aurora, CO, shooting in a crowded theater; then comes the Milwaukee-area spa shooting; then the Oregon mall shooting; and now the Newtown, CT, school shooting.
And that’s just this year. We’re due for another some time between the Doomsday date (12/21/12) and New Year’s Eve (12/31/12). Probably a party where everyone is having a good time, and some jerk with a ‘tude didn’t get invited, or his girlfriend dumped him at Thanksgiving and is going with her new squeeze.
Count on it.
And no, no one at said party will have a gun and it will be a ‘closed’ or private affair, with doors that can be shut and blocked.
Count on it.
And when it happens, everyone will be completely shocked.
@180. We’re at a political standstill? The USA? Standstill? Brother (or sister), I wish we were!
200
Blanka: sadly, there is no perfect solution to the problem in this world. A free society allows freedom – for its good citizens, its evil bastards, and its lunatics. And at present, it’s simply impossible to determine with certainty ahead of time when a member of the latter two categories is about to go “off the rails” and commit mayhem.
The only alternative I see which avoids that possibility is a repressive dictatorship that values order over freedom, and enforces order with an iron hand. Uh, no thanks. I’d rather take my chances in a free society – realizing full well that from time to time a lunatic or evil bastard will slip through the cracks and commit mayhem.
Here we go, just HOURS before the Connecticut shooter went on his rampage, a student was arrested trying to pull off his own macabre massacre:
http://news.yahoo.com/okla-teen-arrested-school-shooting-plot-184243533.html
This guy researched the Columbine shootings.
I’m telling you all, I’m sure there are more than a few of these types wanting their own moments of infamy, trying to outdo previous shooters.
Something is seriously wrong with some people in our society, and it has nothing to do with firearms. I can say with confidence though that the internet has only fueled more of these types to seek their 15 minutes of sick infamy.
@185 – Tman, your last paragraph is on the nose. There are definitely more of these people waiting in the wings.
You can analyze this incident all you want to, but it won’t stop the same thing from happening again, and it has absolutely nothing to do with firearms. It has nothing to do with the clothes you wear, how many tattoos or piercings you have, the kind of car/truck you drive, or what kind of dwelling you live in. It has everything to do with these people parking themselves outside the circle that makes up a society.
If it were only about having guns, then someone explain the Oklahoma City truck bombing. No guns used in that one, and a lot of people, including children in the day care center, died in that blast.
Analyzing it do death is not going to get rid of the fear and anger that says “you could be next”.
That sad part, Ex-PH2, is that this shooting broke all boundaries of what is considered sacred. That is, the brutal, cold blooded, up close execution of little children in grade school. Certainly attacks against and among elementary school kids is not exactly isolated, as evidenced by those knife attacks in China.
But there’s something about this shooting that is so heinous, that even individuals in Iran are expressing shock and sympathies.
Who knows what the next guy is planning to ‘outdo’ in terms of body count or a mass murder being so horrible that the world media once again sensationalizes the crime?
That guy in Oklahoma who go caught hours before the Connecticut shooting was planning on locking in students in an auditorium and slaughtering them, and booby trapping the doors with bombs. He was researching the Columbine shootings, no doubt ‘inspired’ by them.
I mean, seriously, there’s something seriously whacked about our society, that some young people are so starved for notoriety and ‘fame’ that they want to go out in a horrible blaze of glory, killing as many people as they can.
Can’t blame it on divorce, or abuse, or any other excuse. Plenty of young people with issues like that, don’t go around planning mass shootings.
‘Plenty of young people with issues like that, don’t go around planning mass shootings.’
Exactly. The majority of people don’t get drunk and drive when they’re buzzed, or cause accidents. The ordinary person doesn’t walk up to someone’s front steps and open fire on children playing there. Normal people have things that bother them every day, but they don’t plan an explosion that will cover a 16-block radius and kill several hundred people. Nor do they lure people to a remote jungle in South America and slaughter them with cyanide-laced Koolaid, as Jim Jones did in 1977.
But — and this is the kicker — how do you sort the looney tunes out from the rest of us? Well, you can’t.
You can only hope people are alert enough to let someone know, unlike the teachers at Virginia Tech, who knew that one student was off the deep end and did nothing.