Merkel; The US isn’t our b*tch now
Last week, President Trump withdrew the US from the Paris climate change agreement just after he told the NATO members that they needed to start carrying their own water in regards to their own defense. So Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, told her supporters last week that they could no longer “completely depend” on the US. She said that Europeans “must really take our destiny into our own hands.” I’m glad that she understood his message.
She should have got that message during the Obama Administration when they scrapped the missile defense for Europe. The US has spent trillions for the defense of Western Europe over the last several decades while the Euros laid back and enjoyed their month-long vacations and social security – secure in the knowledge that US taxpayers were footing the bill for their lavish lifestyles. It was in our interests, so we really didn’t mind, but now that we have massive debt to overcome, it only seems fair that the Euros start spending their money for themselves.
It’s the same with the Paris climate control thingie. Do any of you remember anyone setting up an international GoFundMe tincup for the US while we worked for a “greener” economy? While the government hamstrung the economy by forcing Americans to import for our energy needs – blocking our own natural resources from development.
Is Germany sending us money to pay for retraining the out-of-work coal miners in West Virginia? Have we even thought of asking?
Our own corporations were forced to retool the economy with a government gun to their heads. If they didn’t meet arbitrary government standards in a timely manner, they were massively fined. That was ultimately financed by the American consumers. Now those same consumers are being told that they have to pay China and India to make up for their production losses while they make their economies more green.
John Kerry blamed “special interests” for the president’s decision. I guess by special interests, he means the American taxpayer who are tired of being the bitch for every country especially our own that is owned by the special interest of “big L” Liberalism and George Soros.
Category: Foreign Policy
I just picture Frau Merkel in her old East German Commie uniform everytime she goes on another one of her rants…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328536/Angela-Merkel-Communist-links-new-image-uniform-released.html
Now, that hits the ‘Awww, s–t’ button for me.
I have tried to give Angela the benefit of the doubt and observe that she may have simply been in the survival mode, but since I know someone whose family left East Germany as soon as the wall fell, that whole doubt thing goes out the window.
Merkel’s daddy was a true-believing commie who moved the family from West Germany to East Germany.
I don’t see an issue with being an idiot at 17. If you weren’t an idiot at 17, you missed an opportunity.
Just a “little” image problem… bet you that some of out “left-leaning” commentors are trying to e-mail her to find out where they can get uni’s like the one she’s wearing.
Breathtaking to see how fast America has abdicated its role as leader of the world. And sad that after several generations we have forgotten the lessons of WWII. Some of you cheap bastards would happily sacrifice global stability to save a few bucks on your tax bill. Instead of the greatest generation, the cheapest generation.
Not at all. All Trump has done is stopped handing out blank checks. The US is still free to pick and choose what is done rather than being bound by ridiculous agreements that simply take money without and results or tangible goals.
I feel sorry for places like the Baltic nations, they are getting pretty nervous right about now. And here they thought they had a reliable ally.
Joey, Joey, you just don’t get it. It’s time the EU stood on their own feet and funded their own defense. If they can afford to import more people, then pay them not to work, furnish them free housing and food, perhaps they can finally meet their NATO obligations.
I know, your leader, Boo-rock, never saw things that way, and, you being an unthinking liberal, see things the way he did. Sucks to be you.
Actually the Baltic States have already ramped up defense spending to over the %2 target.
…Probably has something to do with living next door to Russia…
If memory serves Poland has hit the target as well. I don’t doubt Teh Donald has told them under the table they don’t have much to worry about.
Read Joe, you shouldn’t depend on me to do your research for you;
Then why didn’t he say it? He made a lot of people very nervous. Not sure if his omission was calculated or not. But there is simply no telling what goes on in that man’s mind….
As someone who has participated in several of our “World Leading” adventures, I vote that it ain’t worth it – nice to see billions of our money going to who knows where overseas when my street looks like a B-52 just hit it.
Two words – corporate welfare
-sigh- Corporate welfare…please.
Two more words – International Corruption
Two more words, just for you, Joey.
Raging Idiot.
It is NOT”OUR” job toofover EVERY ASS in Europe, nevermind the whole fricken world. While we do so VOLUNTARLY in much of the world, it is only out of the “goodness of our heart” we do so, there is no “mandate” that we do so.
If we recind our “gift” of monies, well TOO FUCKING BAD.
If we pull out “gift if monies”
Since when does “leader of the world” mean underwriting everyone else’s economic progress at our expense indefinitely? Hell, if we want an infinite drain on the economy, we should make ’em all states.
No, you stupid jackass. WE have not forgotten the lessons of WWII.
WE do not owe the world a living, which is what’s upsetting Merkel’s apple cart. THEY owe us, big time.
And, you must be a cheap bastard using your Mom’s AOL dialup or the free wifi at the local Starbucks to surf the ‘net and troll here.
He uses the free Wi-Fi at the school. You know, the one where he mops the halls, cleans the toilets and “watches” the girl’s locker room.
Actually, I have it on pretty good authority he’s posting from the school library between cleaning the shitters and the kiddie puke in the cafeteria.
So, when America does lead we are the arrogant Americans who think we can tell Europe what to do. When we say fine, have at it yourselves we are “cheap” and “abdicating our role”.
Screwed one way and fucked the other. No matter what we do, we are wrong, so yeah, screw them. They’ve been sucking up to communism all this time so fine, they can have it.
Funny there isn’t ANY mention of the millions the Europeans still OWE the US for the WWII reconstruction.
Since Merkel is so miffed about having to actually pay for Germany’s defense and the US pulling out of the Paris Ponzi scheme, perhaps President Trump should rethink American Troops on German soil. Relocate them to any Baltic states who are interested. Hungary and Poland come to mind. Besides, with all the muslims invading Germany, our troops and their families would be safer.
Don’t forget the Czech Republic. They seem to like us and our second amendment.
Back when I was stationed in the UK (96-03), 3rd AF, out of RAFM, was doing site visits in the Baltics and I do believe an air base has been stood up somewhere over there since I retired in 05. Not sure which country though.
Nice people, good beer – I travel there fairly frequently. kind of a Slavic Ireland.
So first you say we’re “imperialist” for our involvement abroad (that heavily favors the continental Eurofucks). Now we’re dialing it back, as people like you have spent decades clamoring for, and you’re pissy about it. Fuck off, Joey.
Let me share a real life example of why I think this is a good idea.
When I first reported to my infantry unit, it was based in Mainz, Germany. We spent a LOT of time in the field, because the simple truth is that the more you train, the less you bleed.
After every one of these, the German government charged, the US Taxpayer through the US Army, for something referred to as “Maneuver Damages.” On the face of it, it seemed to me to be a reasonable thing … until I started learning the details.
Say an Armored unit is running around through the hills and dales and one of the tanks runs over some farmers chicken. Said farmer got reimbursed for his dead chicken.
Cool, right?
Unfortunately, it wasn’t just the chicken that got paid for, but all the eggs it would have laid during it’s entire life, all the chicken offspring that would have hatched and grown into more egg layers or roosters, etc.
Gender of the chicken was irrelevant, because as we all know, it takes two to tango.
At first, I thought they were yanking my chain, but everybody and their dog said the same thing, “We’re getting hosed – big time.” This had been going on for decades.
So screw ’em, I say. YMMV
Yes. I was in the 509th in Mainz-Gonsonheim in the late 60’s. Every time one of our APC’s damaged a sapling during maneuvers it was over a 1000 marks to compensate the property owner. At the then exchange rate that was over 250 bucks for something you can now buy at Costco or Sam’s club for less than $40.00. The Germans loved it whenever we damaged anything because they considered us chumps and a cash cow.
Yep.
Well stated Jonn. It’s about time the Euros pull their weight.
And we just had the discussion about WWII, the battle of Midway, and how important U. S. industrial capability was to our victory. In the years since, we’ve de-industrialized, shipped manufacturing overseas, neutered the ambitions of large segments of the U. S. workforce, and ultimately placed ourselves at risk. Yes, some important WWII lessons forgotten, indeed.
The only nation to ever call on NATO allies to fight in their defense is the US.
The nation that most benefits from the weakening of the NATO alliance is Russia.
Trump’s idiotic grandstanding has cost the west dearly. Everything he said could have been said behind closed doors without publicly undermining and weakening the treaty.
Fuck Trump on this. He is as close to a traitor as have ever held the office.
And just why, why. why are WE expected to bear the entire burden of THEIR defense?
Our defense? When were WE attacked and they rushed to OUR defense?
Since WE sent more troops to the Gulf War than anyone else (e.g., Italy sent 700 – OOOH!), perhaps you could explain your lack of facts.
Idiotic reply on your part. We don’t pay the entire burden of their defense.
Yes, we invoked the NATO treaty after we were attacked by Afghanistan/At Qaeda.
Afghanistan was a NATO mission.
I have no clue why the Fuck you think the gulf war is relevant to this discussion. Probably think it is relevant because you are a moron.
It IS relevant to this because Germany is a NATO member and sent nothing, whereas the USA sent 697,000 troops.
Is that simple enough for you, Poodledick? The Gulf War involved NATO nations. Germany has been a member since 1955, and contributed zip. And in case you don’t know anything about history, the USSR collapsed in 1989, ending the Warsaw Pact. Got that part? And in case you’ve forgotten more history, Germany is where the hijackers who flew planes into the Pentagon, the World Trade Center in NYC, and a field in Shanksville, PA, were living before they found their way into the USA. It is quite relevant, whether you like it or not.
Here’s the list of participants:
Army Central Command
Saudi Arabia
United Kingdom
United States
Marine Central Command
United States
Joint Forces Command East
Egypt
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Morocco
Kuwait
Oman
United Arab Emirates
Qatar
Bahrain
Poland
Czechoslovakia
Joint Forces Command North
United States
United Kingdom
France
Canada
Italy
Australia
Japan
Turkey
You see, unlike you, I do some research before I make blanket statements.
The German Army sent me some socks while I was in the Gulf War.
We got a repatriated East German decontamination system that made a really great shower point.
Well, I am glad I swallowed my tea before I read that!
That was mighty decent of them. Were they summer weight or winter weight? Oh, never mind.
OD Green wool knee socks. Perfect for the desert.
Good Lord.
Those are Turbo GT Porsche driving socks, Jonn. They retail for $2500 a pair, but have good resale value if they haven’t been washed too often…
OD Green wool knee socks. Perfect for the desert.
liederhosen…
Al Qaeda. Auto-corrected to At Qaeda.
You know better than to say we “bear the entire burden”. Nonsense. After surviving WWII people weren’t so intent on pinching pennies, they knew stability took precedence over a dollar here or a dollar there. They were glad to be alive, they didn’t fret over the fact that they might pay a few dollars more or less on their taxes than their neighbor. Now people like you Ex-PH2 would reduce it to a zero sum game, only winners or losers, every nation for itself, the primary concern being their wallets. Well, when the world really goes to hell, I hope you are happy with the few bucks you saved.
Yeah whatever, o rock-scampering bunny fart! Now take your meds and have a cookie. NOT one of the ones with sprinkles, sprinkles are for winners, mmmmmmkay?
Joey, joey, joey – you should not post driveling, sniveling, incoherent, slackbrained comments when you’re stoned.
Your entire statement does not make any sense. I have no idea where you get the nonsense that you create, but after WWII, when the military came back from the Pacific and Europe, they either got jobs because the Depression had been over with for almost 10 years, or they went to college on the WWII GI Bill and got even better jobs after that. The automobile industry cranked up rapidly AFTER World War II. Radio’s broadcasting empire was threatened briefly by television, but only briefly, because the radio networks quickly realized the value of visual broadcasting. People who were WWII veterans were easily able to find jobs in the private sector, including Hollywood the Industry.
So, about saving money? That’s something you don’t know how to do, isn’t it? If I were a bettor, I’d bet you are up to your ears in debt, and unfortunately for you, welfare is something started by that enormous ASS Lyndon Johnson in 1965, for the sole purpose of buying votes, which means the money for that crap comes out of my pocket. Yes, I would definitely like to retrieve every dime of my taxes that went for that crap since 1965. He also started Medicare. Do you enjoy paying for Medicare, Joey? Wait till you get your SSRI checks. The premiums are deducted from what little you get for SSRI, despite paying into it for decades.
Joey, you are an ass. An ASSS! Now, go find something useless to do with your time today.
Are you telling me that Joe doesn’t know his burro from his burrow?
Why, yes. Yes, I am, Graybeard.
It’s always about your purse with you, isn’t it Ex?
It’s her money, why shouldn’t she be concerned about it? It’s not your money, it’s not the government’s money – it’s her money.
Shhhh…you’re confusing him. It goes against everything he was spoon-fed.
It’s not the taxes that concern me. I’ve always paid mine.
It’s how my taxes are spent on useless jerks like you, Joey, that I object to.
You and your weed-cronked pocket pets want a welfare state. Well, dimwit, the money for that has to come from someone and it always comes from working stiffs like we, the people who post comments on TAH. It seldom comes from slackers and layabouts like you. Without tax money going into welfare, you wouldn’t be able to spend money on weed, would you? No, because without welfare, there is no SNAP card.
Please go spot a train or something, will you?
Sadly, the Durango-Silverton railroad trains don’t go nearly fast enough.
OH, those old trains! One of these days, I will get on one and go some place special.
Have you gone up to Alaska ? The Alaska Railroad has tours, vacations and packages.
“The only nation to ever call on NATO allies to fight in their defense is the US.”
And why do you suppose that is, Lars?
Agreed.
Joe, take Commissar’s dick out of your mouth before you post….
The only nation to ever call on NATO allies to fight in their defense is the US.
Factually wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_Operations
Ill give him a huge benefit of doubt. He may have meant it was the first time Article 5 was invoked by a member
Aaaaaaand Commissar turns out to be full of shit yet again.
Nope, sorry, wrong again, and you should be very used to hearing that, but obumbler, and clintoon were actual traitors, doing everything they could to undermine US interests, and line their own pockets… I really have to wonder, does it hurt being so stupid?
You, of course, overlook decades of keeping the Russians out of Western Europe.
Safely behind the American Phalanx, Western Europe was free to pretend that one can free base Socialism, and not poison ones nation into decline.
Now, of course, they get to see what the Bear looks like, again,and they expect -us- to keep the Bear busy while they pretend they are not being idiots.
And idiots -here- will endlessly blame -us- for not enabling the idiots there.
Absent -us- rebuilding Western Europe, and absent -us- preventing the Russians from engulfing the entirety of it, those folks now bitching would be Russian-speaking serfs.
And certain idiots -here- want to wish that away, possibly because they really want -us- to lose, because any shining example of Liberty and Capitalism kinda gets in the way of selling Socialism/Progressivism/Marxism as anything other than the dreary doom that it is. All the while, believing that -they- are finally the ones who can make their mess work.
Oh look, an American President is working in the best interests of America! Wow. And look at who is -opposed- to that!
Eat shit and die, Lars. Remember that little place formerly called Yugoslavia? Remember that whole little “ethnic cleansing” shit going on back about 20 years ago?
Gee, who was carrying the bulk of the load back then? No, wait–don’t tell me! Lemme guess! Had to be one of those European Union countries, right? After all, that shit was going on in THEIR backyard!
Oh, wait. Nevermind. It was us doing the majority of the work. AGAIN.
You may go now.
Just to refresh my memory, who in or near the North Atlantic is such a threat to the US that we need to rely on Albania et al. to protect us? Just how is the well being of the Baltic states so critical to the well being of the US that we need to guarantee it with an open ended commitment of American blood and treasure?
Pulled their weight? NATO came to our defense and fought for us. Allied soldiers died for the US in Afghanistan.
The 2% budget requirement DOES NOT SAVE THE US MONEY.
It is their standing army requirement. It does to their military budgets.
And it is outdated since most of these nations have significantly increased their domestic security and domestic intelligence budgets due to terror threats.. Most of that spending does not count toward the 2%.
The 2% standing military requirement was based on the assumption of an external nation state threat.
People agreeing with Trump’s idiocy on this are flat wrong. Trump could have handled this much better behind closed doors instead of creating a public spectacle to excite his moronic base.
He is the first president in history that could mad a closed door threat to pull out of NATO that would have been believed by our allies. The threat alone would have spurred them to spend more because they all know Trump is a big enough fucking moron to actually pull out of NATO.
So, Poodle, you think that any increased funding to their police forces and internal intelligence should be counted toward their 2% benchmark?
How many times has this “behind closed doors” diplomacy been tried, and how successful was it? Apparently, if it was tried, it didn’t work. So, doing it in public was a viable option. And, if it would have worked if he’d done it “behind closed doors”, it’ll work now.
But, I’m sure that Merkel, Macron and some of the others will be too busy surrendering to muslims to be bothered to fulfill their obligations.
Did public grandstanding work?
Yes, if Trump’s goal was to weaken NATO to the advantage of Russia.
It did nothing to fix NATO.
HEY Babbles McButthead, it’s time for you to take your meds, and you can have yourself a cookie afterward. NOT one of the cookies with sprinkles because sprinkles are for winners! Mmmmmmkay?
“NATO came to our defense and fought for us.”
Commissar, I know you’ve been overseas but I don’t know if that includes Afghanistan. If it does, then you cannot possibly believe that the NATO contingents pulled their weight there. All come with so many caveats that most are left to doing the most menial missions in the safest areas. Exceptions in my experience being the Brits and Canadians.
And I’m not saying that other NATO troops are afraid to fight – they just aren’t allowed to.
“Pulled their weight? NATO came to our defense and fought for us. Allied soldiers died for the US in Afghanistan.”
Yeah, because they had no self interest in the fight at all, radical islam posed no threat to them, just us… do you even think this shit through before you type? or is it just a form of verbal diarrhea over which you have no control?
“The 2% standing military requirement was based on the assumption of an external nation state threat.”
Which, of course, is the assumption NATO is based on.
“Trump could have handled this much better behind closed doors”
Being a big fan of Democracy, I would much rather have it all aired in public so that I know what my elected leaders are committing me to. You are free, of course, to prefer secrecy and ignorance.
Russia/Soviet Union has spent more than a half a century trying to disrupt the US-German alliance and weaken NATO.
They failed.
Trump accomplished this for them in 120 days.
I did not believe Trump was a Russian collaborator until his week long attack on our relationship with NATO and Germany.
I knew Trump had a business deal for loans that is contingent on him influencing the US position on Russian oil to Russia’s benefit. Which was borderline but not direct collaboration because it is a business deal.
However, he is undermining the security of our allies.particularly the NATO periphery nations.
It is insane.
Nope. You’re insane, and mentally and physically lazy, Piuperdink.
I should add that you are so completely wrong, so far off the mark, about what you said, you will NEVER get back to Square One. WA-A-A-AY off base, BOZO!
YO, Babbles McButthead! Yeahhh right, you’re off your meds yet again, aren’t you? Tell us how President Trump is a Russkie puppet when we saw his election opponent take money from them and suddenly had a deal for a chunk of American Uranium after they made a “donation” to the Clinton Foundation, bunny fart-brain!
Ok, other than some rhetoric from Merkel what has changed? Will the Russians invade Poland now? Will Germany invade France again? I fail to see how anything is different than before the visit other than the whole world knows we have a clown for president.
They already knew that anyway. And really he wasn’t even the worst we sent over there. Carter was such a pussy that when he went in 1978 he got NATO to agree to:
“This is exemplified by the fact that all the members of NATO now have promised to increase their actual budget commitments to NATO defense by 3 percent per year above and beyond the inflation rate.”
Of course they did not do it and Carter didn’t say or do a thing about it.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=31087
All El Trumo’ did was go the other way and say: Do it.
Um, Putin did recently invade Crimea after all. Up next, Estonia?
Yep, and who was the pResident when that happened? oooh yeah, the golfer in chief… nice try Joe, go back to sniffing paint fumes
We’re talking about Putin, not Obama. Anyway there is nothing we could have done in that case, it’s his backyard. But we best be prepared for the next shoe to drop.
“We”? You have a turd in your pocket, Joey? What the fuck is this “we” you mention?
He stole the hamster out of Mrs. Fartzsnocker’s classroom.
And he didn’t hide it in a pocket….
BwaHaHaHa. Great, SEA.
Yeah, I’m well aware of what we’re talking about. the point you’re trying so hard to avoid, like a good little leftist, is that you all on that side of the fence only decided to take Putin seriously, and get upset about his actions AFTER your anointed one finally vacated the Oval Office
That was three years ago under “O”s watch. O and NATO didn’t do shit. Merkel didn’t say a damn word about the US not having their back then and we sure didn’t.
In any case the Russians sure are taking their time in world conquest. In 1939 Hitler invaded Poland. By 1942 he was balls deep in Russia and had all of Continental Europe and Scandinavian Europe under his control.
Merkel and the rest didn’t say shit, because they were scared the Russians would shut their Natural Gas off if I remember correctly.
Seems to me they were calling the Ukrainian government Nazis…
Just my humble opinion Major but if Germany wants France again, they can have it. France, the brown smear between Spain and Europe.
Dear France,
You’re still our bitch.
Signed
Germany
And the fact that the current leader of Germany is a former member of East Germany’s version of the hilter(or stalin) youth???? That’s just irrelevant? Seems she’s pretty upset that a photo of her very much enjoying herself while a part of that group has come to light).
I know you’ll never give President Trump credit for anything he does, but just maybe it’s her communist ties that actually exist, and you should be concerned about…
But then again, as you’ve pointed out multiple times before, ” don’t fear the commie” after all, your hero, the former occupant is the one that told Romney that the 80’s wanted their foreign policy back… see, those of us on the other side remember the stupid shit you and the left spout, we don’t just pretend it didn’t happen when it becomes inconvenient…
You’re still worried about “the Commie”. Gearing up to fight the last war? You should worry about the Oligarch.
Kim Jun Un is an oligarch? Or, are you just demonstrating your cluelessness yet again?
Pop quiz, hotshot! How many people in this world still live under communist regimes?
Actually, i was talking about stupid comments made by another leftist on this site, as well and the obsession you lefttards have with Putin…Of course if you’re taking about North Korea, it seems they got their nukes while another leftist idiot (clinton) ignored what they were doing.. I don’t know about you, but i’m seeing a pattern here…
Funny how the left is now shrieking about Russians (!), after the -one- time the Russians do not back -their- play.
Oopsie. They were kinda hoping no one would notice that…..
“Trump accomplished this for them in 120 days…”
Hysteria is so unbecoming.
“It is insane”
Yes, it is. But don’t despair. I am sure some outpatient treatment and a few psychoactive drugs will fix you right up. Until then, just remember that the giant magenta caterpillars are not real.
Interesting how many people are butt-hurt with this, but seem to ignore the simple fact that BHO did NOT have approval for the US to join this fiasco in the first place. I’m sorry, EU, but maybe it’s time you paid for your own instead of trying to rely on the US as your open checkbook. As far as NATO goes, maybe it’s time that we moved that bunch of leeches out of the US and into one of the EU countries for a while and then see how well they fair!
NATO (as well as the EU) is HQ’d at Brussels, Belgium. The UN HQ is located in NYC.
Personally, I’m all for moving them out of the US, as well.
Personally, I’m all for ending the UN, period. The whole peacenik thing, peace in our time, was/is baloney.
We could put that money into something useful.
United Nations…the little train that didn’t.
Yep! There’s nothing left to say.
You think the United States joined NATO under President Obama??? You think NATO is headquartered in the US?
You’ve got it all figured out ace.
I think, maybe, in the first part he meant the Paris Accord, unratified by the Senate.
But the second part? Train wreck.
For those with short memories, the US missions in the Former Republics of Yugoslavia were also done under the NATO flag – a classic example, BTW, of the US finally stepping in to do something because the feckless UN absolutely, utterly failed.
Other NATO countries were involved but with the usual exception of the UK, the participation of other countries was mostly in the form of providing a place for the US to set up the huge logistic bases neccessary for the operations to occur.
Other NATO countries did participate but, as usual, it was the US that did the heavy lifting and the non-US, Canadian and British NATO troops that were deployed were generally posted to safe areas and acted as security guards.
My point with all of this is to say that, counter to Lars who seems to be implying that the US is the only country that has called on assistance from other NATO countries, the US has in fact expended a huge amount of treasure (though not much blood) fixing problems that occurred in Europe’s back yard and that Europe proved absolutely unwilling to take on.
Back when Europe was a post-war shambles, with an economy in ruins and a predatory Soviet Union trying to stir up trouble, it made perfect sense for the US to station troops there and to guarantee the security of Western Europe. That was done in the US self-interest, as it should have been.
But those conditions no longer apply and haven’t applied for decades. There’s no reason the nations of Europe cannot provide for their own defense. They have robust economies and manufacturing capabilities that either equal or exceed those that we have in the US. US taxpayers are absolutely entitled to tell Europe that their defense free ride is over.
And BTW if the Germans and the French are worried about the Russians, I would argue that the history of the past couple hundred years shows that the Russians have much more justification in being afraid of the Germans and the French. 😉
I seem to remember NATO standing by and watching while the Serbs savaged Kosovo. NATO begged WJClinton to intercede, you know, instead of doing something without us. The same thing happened a few years before that in Bosnia. I think we’re still there while juggling a few other conflicts.
Yup, they wrung their hands and said “ain’t it awful” until we finally rolled up our sleeves and did something.
And this wasn’t the broke, dysfunctional Europe of 1946, this was the wealthy, flourishing Europe of the 1990s.
Well, we should also remember that the Germans complained dismally, at great length, about the US troops present on their soil, until the US pulled up stakes and left.
Then it was ‘please come back, puh-leeze?’
Poland, on the other hand, pulled itself up by its bootstraps, joined NATO in 1999 and the European Union in 2004. With its transformation to a democratic, market-oriented country largely completed and with large investments in defense, energy, and other infrastructure, Poland is an increasingly active member of Euro-Atlantic organizations.
Hint: some of my dishes come from Poland. Earthenware and porcelain, both.
Funny how that democracy and market-oriented stuff works isn’t it.
Didn’t the Dutch just stand there with their collective dick in hand and watch people get pulled away from their fence to be slaughtered?
I don’t agree that “the Germans” complained about “the presence of US troops.”
Certainly “SOME” Germans complained about the presence of US troops – mostly lefties who loved the USSR – but most of the Germans I met were either indifferent to the presence of foreign troops on their soil (not as if that’s something unusual for Europe) or were generally supportive. BTW the support generally got better the closer one got to the IGB (inter-German border) or the border with Czechoslovakia, i.e the Iron Curtain.
And even those who were not extremely supportive of US troops were, of course, quite supportive of the millions and millions of Deutschmarks that made their way into the local and national economies because of the presence of US troops, whether it was through high paying civilian jobs on US bases, lucrative contracts with local businesses, or the spending of highly paid (compared to their NATO counterpart) US troops.
Certainly, some Germans complained about specific incidents involving US troops, whether it was drunken fights, assaults/rapes by soldiers or maneuver damage during big exercises, but that is no different than the way some of the “townies” in camp towns like Fayetteville NC (Fort Bragg) or Jacksonville NC (Camp LeJeune) complain about the troops there. IOW it’s always a love-hate relationship.
Okay, I’ll accept what you say, but I was going on what I heard from guys who were stationed there in the 1960s and 1970s, quite some time before the end of the Cold War.
Gotta go with martinjmpr on this one, started visiting Germany in 1971 and was stationed there in the late ’70s. Some grousing and complaining but all in all, better than many US towns near military bases.
I also agree with martinjmpr. Never had problems with the West Germans while I was there. When the units rolled out of the kasernes on alerts, mostly the older males would hang around the traffic control points and admire the equipment rolling by. If it was a night alert, a few of them would bring us a cognac and coke, or two. 🥃🥃
I know that the closer we got to the East German border, the West Germans got friendlier.
Same thing with Korea.
And notice how the former Warsaw Pact nations are a lot more supportive of us than the Eurotrash we’ve been supporting for the last 70 years.
Yep, odd how I saw plenty of Brit and Aussie uniforms in Iraq. Romanian, Bulgarian, Lithuanian and even Slovak uniforms in Kandahar, but not any German or Italian ones in the south – but, as usual, plenty of Brit ones. I did hear from friends that there were German and Italian units in the north. Looks to me like the newest members of NATO are the most dependable.
Me too. I think most of whatever complaining there was was just an excuse to get higher rents and compensation and such from the US.
In this discussion of who fights and who doesn’t I noticed a glaring error. No one mentioned the only country to come to our aid in every conflict and is our greatest ally. Australia
True but also not relevant since we’re talking about NATO and Australia is not part of NATO. 😉
Trump is angering all the right people.
Love it.
Of the $913.3 billion 2016 NATO budget, the US contributed $664.1 billion of that. Yes I would say the developed European nations can more than pick up their fair share of the load. Only five meet the 2% goal.
Here’s a breakdown of each country’s contribution, based on 2016 figures provided by NATO:
United States, 3.61%.
Greece, 2.38%.
Britain, 2.21%.
Estonia, 2.16%.
Poland, 2%.
France, 1.78%. Losers
Turkey, 1.56%.
Norway, 1.54%.
Lithuania, 1.49%.
Romania, 1.48%.
Latvia, 1.45%.
Portugal, 1.38%.
Bulgaria, 1.35%.
Croatia, 1.23%.
Albania, 1.21%.
Germany, 1.19%. Bigger loser.
Denmark, 1.17%.
Netherlands, 1.17%.
Slovakia, 1.16%.
Italy, 1.11%.
Czech Republic, 1.04%.
Hungary, 1.01%.
Canada, 0.99%.
Slovenia, 0.94%.
Spain, 0.91%.
Belgium, 0.85%.
Luxembourg, 0.44%
(Loser remarks added by me.)
We get more out of the deal than we give.
Explain. Last time I checked, there wasn’t any ethnic cleansing going on in Ohio.
We’d get something out of the deal if NATO would patrol our border with Mexico. Otherwise, nope.
He must have been referring to military personnel. Where would you rather be stationed–Heidelberg, Naples, or El Paso? If I were still in the Army I know I would be a big NATO fan. There is a reason AFRICOM is based in Stuttgart instead of someplace (anyplace) in Africa.
Well that and no one would have us.
After all the adventurism in the Americas in the early part of the last century by the US a lot of smaller countries are standoffish.
So Germany with the world’s fifth largest economy pays less than Albania, the 125th? Seems legit. And where are the Italians? Are they not G12 or G7?
It’s worse than that. Granted, 1.21 percent of Albania’s economy is pocket change compared to 1.19 percent of Germany’s, if you look at the NATO members contributions, you’d wonder why we don’t just call it the, “Give the Eurotrash all our cash club.”
Let’s see. Angie is mad at Donnie because Donnie is friends with Vlad, and Angie thinks Vlad is a meanie and a poopie head.
Didn’t we get over this stuff in second grade?
When the beneficiaries of a lopsided deal get notice that the other party has wised up and demanded a rebalancing, the cry of “no fair” is often heard.
Yup. It was in our interest to prevent a -third- global European war of the 20th Century. Those folks have slaughtered tens of millions of people with their bullshit. (And yes, Russia is a Euro power. Read a map…)
The next time they set the world on fire, we will again be the ones stuck putting it out. If they -insist- on a next time, we should simply -conquer- the whole mess. -Then- we can stop getting caught up in their millennia old game.
Next up, the Finlandization of the Baltic States.
Not even apples and oranges. Not the same ballpark.
Not even the same fucking sport. Maybe you could break open a book after you put that orange barf cleaner stuff down.
Library, you know, that place you surf pron and try to blame some 4th graders for it.
Sez you.
At the risk of sounding trite, read a history book. Focus on the relationship between Germany and the Soviets between about 1938-41.
Then you’ll realize how fucking stupid your comment was.
Then again, probably not.
Finlandization – is the process by which one powerful country makes a smaller neighboring country abide by the former’s foreign policy rules, while allowing it to keep its nominal independence and its own political system.[1] The term literally means “to become like Finland” referring to the influence of the Soviet Union on Finland’s policies during the Cold War.
History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes…..
Helsinki was one of three national capitals in Europe not occupied at any point during WWII.
They were the original flip-floppers, supporting first the Nazis, then the Soviets, based on their self interest.
And if you’re going to quote teh Wiki, at least be smart (or honest) enough to understand the references they cite.
So basically you’re not just lazy, but a plagiarist as well.
I expected nothing less from you, I guess.
So you’re too dumb to get the parallels…..
Jeez. Speaking of dumb. At least use quotation marks. And it ain’t that hard to copy/paste a URL.
So? We have great relations with the Finns.
Back off freebasing the used kitty litter, Joe… it’s frying what few brain cells you have.
Here’s your quote, Piuperdink:
“Yes, we invoked the NATO treaty after we were attacked by Afghanistan/At Qaeda.”
at this link: http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=72572&cpage=1#comment-2997539
YOU are saying, very specifically right there, that Al Qaeda is part of the Afghan government. Nowhere have I found anything that supports what you said.
Here’s a complete history of Al Qaeda from PBS:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/network/alqaeda/indictment.html
The fact that Al Qaeda was formed independently in Afghanistan during the Soviet/Afghan War seems to have escaped you. The fact that it was supported by OUTSIDE financial resources seems to have also escaped you.
YOU state: Afghanistan/Al Qaeda attacked us.
That is completely NOT TRUE. Afghanistan did NOT attack the United States.
The 9/11 hijackers were linked to support from the Saudi government. That report was released in 2016. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/long-classified-28-pages-show-911-hijackers-were-aided-by-men-wi/
The 9/11 hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. Fifteen of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, and the others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt, and Lebanon.[1] The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with three or four “muscle hijackers,” who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.
You frequently pull stuff out of nowhere and state it as fact, when IN FACT, it turns out to be nothing but NOT FACTUAL. You don’t do any research. You don’t support your statements. You just throw them at us and we’re supposed to believe it because Commissar SAID SO????
No, Commissar, aka COMMISSAR, aka POODLEDICK, aka PIUPERDINK, you are so utterly incompetent at what you do that no one believes anything you say. You have your own head so far up your own backside, you will never see daylight EVER.
All you’ve done here is prove, once again, that you are dumber than a box of bent screws.
I would also bet there is no evidence that the Taliban gov’t. of A’stan even knew what AQ was up to.
But what the hell. All those ragheads look alike, eh?
Not a 100% true. One of the tribal leaders got wind of it and was going to dime them out to the US but AQ got to him first and had him whacked with an IED.
Had that not happened the world might be entirely different place.
The person I believe you are talking about wasn’t Taliban, he was Northern Alliance.
I believe this is who you are referring to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud
I suspect you are correct.
When I was little, my folks kept boxes of popcicles for me. I noticed that I had friends around as long as I had popcicles to hand out. When we ran out of popcicles, the kids found other things to do, rather than play with me.
Looks like Uncle Sugar is having the same problem, except he hasn’t been using popcicles to pay for his friends.
You must have been a real fatty.
Go fuck yourself, asshole. For your information I was underweight, wouldn’t eat, and the popcicles were a desperate attempt to put weight on me and keep me hydrated.
Ahem.
Given a room full of -veterans-, was the response you got inappropriate (or unexpected), to your seeming use of a re-hash of the old joke about “mom hung a pork chop around my neck so the dog would play with me”?
Seriously? In this crowd?
And by the way, how does one get pork chop stains out of a t-shirt anyway? Mine really look awful…
The response WAS inappropriate, but not unexpected.
T-shirt stains: if you haven’t attempted to wash them yet, rub a drop or two of dish detergent into each stain, full strength, then launder as usual.
But, thinking about it some more, you’re probably right. I doubt OM knows that I rarely joke on here, since I have no talent for it.
FWIW, I recognized that as a joke, Pinto – and tho’t that OM’s response was a bit overboard for the circumstances.
That and $10 may get you a drink at Starbucks, if the CEO doesn’t disapprove of your ideology.
And Major, if you couldn’t anticpate -that- sort of response, please do not work in any sort of attack planning……
Sheeeeesh……
BTW I know I’ve said it before, but I assume I’m not the only one who thinks it’s funny that all of a sudden the democrats and the left are all worried about the Russians Menace.
Didn’t they spend most of the Cold War telling us that our fear of the Russkies was overblown, paranoid, delusional?
Hell, Sting even wrote a song about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHylQRVN2Qs
So what gives? All of a sudden it’s liberals and democrats looking out for the Russians?
I suppose when the mid term elections approach, we can expect the Dems to recycle Reagan’s “There’s a Bear in the Woods” campaign ad from 1984…. 😀
Tonight on the news, a reporter was quibbling with the press (assistant?) secretary over the use of terms for the ‘travel ban’, or is it ‘travel restrictions’?
She said the President is only interested in protecting American citizens, and that semantics weren’t nearly as important as that.
It was refreshing.
That was back when they were pretending to be communists. Now that they are pretending to be a social democracy they are no longer the cool kids.
For the first time in a very long time, the Russians were not friends of the Democrats. In fact, Clinton was such a horrific candidate that the -Russians- preferred a -Republican-.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
Of -course- the Dems have lost their collective minds over Russia. They fear that the folks they have been apologizing for, over decades, are not faithful to them.
Tsk….
“I think (if) you compare the two that Watergate pales really in my view compared to what we’re confronting now.” – James Clapper
“Ambiguous statement of dissatisfaction because of ambiguous circumstance, because..Trump.”~ The Liberals
“This scandal is going to go on. I’ve seen it before. This is a centipede. I guarantee you there will be more shoes to drop, I can just guarantee it. There’s just too much information that we don’t have that will be coming out.” – John McCain
The suspense is killin’ me…..
…just too much information that we don’t have..”
lolololol
You beat me to it. Very funny, indeed.
McCain!! You’re quoting McCain? That guy needs to RETIRE.
He has become what Reagan warned us about.
Ie, GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM.
Watergate has nothing to do with any of this, Joey. That idiotic remark by Clapper confirms how far his head is stuck up his own ass.
Joe is just regurgitation the Donk “talking points” today… ’cause he’s so much better than us or some shit like that. Hill, Clapper, JEF, Warren, Pelosi, Waters, et al., are his “heroes”.
OK, so according to you, Clapper “has his head up his ass”. I understand that’s pretty much the case for anyone who doesn’t agree with you. What about McCain – he’s one of yours. Is he full of sh*t too? He was a war hero yesterday, but does that mean he has his head stuck up his ass today?
Where there is smoke, there is fire. This time the smoke is in the form of several huge mushroom clouds.
McCain lost all cred long, long ago.
“RINO” comes to mind.
“– he’s one of yours.”
Nope. And yes, he is full of shit, and has been for quite a while.
George McGovern was also a decorated flyer. He was full of shit, too.
McCain has become another self-serving politico using his POW history to boost his status. He sits on both sides of that fence, and since you haven’t been paying attention to which way the wind blows with him, it blows in both directions with McCain, Joey.
Yes.
Seems to me, the very definition of RINO.
Has totally lost it. So sad …