Kris Goldsmith and the Veteran Urgent Access to Mental Healthcare Act
We met Kris Goldsmith years ago under less than ideal conditions. He had an other than honorable discharge from the Army and he was rudderless in his life after the Army. After a while, he pulled himself up by his bootstraps, took responsibility for his actions, and set out to do something about it. These days you can find him wandering the halls of Congress as a tireless advocate for veterans. I’m sure that we can all agree that “bad paper” shouldn’t be a death sentence – that there are veterans out there who deserve a second chance. Kris’ latest cause is the Veteran Urgent Access to Mental Healthcare Act – it would provide authorization for the VA to provide initial mental health assessment and health care services related to suicide prevention.
Kris asked us to link to his latest piece at Task and Purpose in regards to the bill, because he’s genuinely interested in your opinions in regards to his latest efforts.
In light of this, I’d remind my fellow veterans that we’re supposed to take the warrior ethos to heart and never leave a fallen comrade.
Here are the facts: Veterans with less-than-honorable discharges are more likely to suffer from substance abuse issues, become homeless, become incarcerated, and go for years without treatment for the physical and mental wounds of war. Important to note, they’re also three times more likely to die by suicide.
Category: Veterans Issues
Ummm. . . correct me if I’m wrong here. . . . are Service Members, with Less-Than-Honorable Discharges, considered Veterans?
And if they have substance abuse problems AFTER their discharge, isn’t it usually because they had those very same problems BEFORE they even entered? So that the LTH was a result of their substance abuse baggage that they brought in with them?
If you served one day in the military, you “can be” called a veteran. However, to get any benefits you have to serve 180 days. Regardless what type of discharge a person gets, they served.
A LTH can be based on many things. Maybe things didn’t go right in your last command. You’re still a veteran.
Believe that for those entering since late 1980 the requirement has been either (a) 24 months of service or (b) the full term of service for which called to active duty, if less than 24 months. These service requirements don’t apply to those who are discharged/retired for medical conditions acquired while serving on active duty.
However, as Alberich points out below, the VA can – and IMO, often does – legally play “fast and loose” with common sense in applying their authority to determine what does and does not count.
In a perfect world, IMO an Honorable Discharge from one’s final term of service would be required to receive ANY benefits from the VA other than treatment for service-connected conditions – and OTHs, BCDs, and DDs/dismissals would all be absolute bars on receipt. Doing what you voluntarily signed up for and getting out with an honorable discharge simply isn’t that damn difficult.
Sadly, the world we live in gives handing out freebies a higher priority than either common sense or protecting the US taxpayer’s interests .
Do you think there should still be an option for a “general” discharge…where you get limited benefits, but not the full set?
I ran into this occasionally with Soldiers who’d been through explosions. Sometimes (sometimes) they really did seem to lose their self-control, and become a major PITA. So their commanders understandably wanted them kicked out fast, but simultaneously did not want them to lose VA treatment for their conditions. The general discharge made it easy to satisfy both needs.
(It was still bad for those individuals as they lost their chance to go to a med-board and get a much more extensive package of benefits. But those are the breaks.)
Were I Imperator, an individual with a General/Under Honorable Conditions would be eligible for VA treatment for service-related conditions – period. All other VA benefits would be forfeit.
General/UOTH, BCD, and DD/dismissal ending an individual’s last term of service would be statutory absolute bars to all VA benefits. This “well, he had a previous honorable discharge, so he qualifies” crap would end immediately.
Only an Honorable Discharge would provide eligibility to “the whole VA enchilada”.
Harsh? No, not really. It’s simply not that damn hard to do what you voluntarily signed up to do when you enlisted/accepted a commission. One does that, they leave with an honorable discharge. One doesn’t, I have no sympathy.
Uncle Sam has played Santa Claus for far too long. He’s freaking flat broke, and has been for a couple of decades.
It ain’t us Veterans that are causing the spending spree in case you haven’t noticed…
We have endured a boatload of shit for the bennies we get.
I was promised free health care for the rest of my life… Well… Guess what… Evidently the contract only meant something on my side of the page and Uncle Sam’s part … Well…
Um, no. Only military retirees were ever promised “healthcare for life”. And that promise was always caveated with the phrase “on a space-available basis”.
Knew several people who retired about the time (or before the time) you served in the mid-1970s. If you want an earful, ask them (or their children) how that promise worked out for them when bases started closing or cutting back after Vietnam. They were also cut off from then-CHAMPUS and forced into Medicare at age 65. (That’s since been corrected by Congress with “Tricare for Life”.)
The only things nonretiree vets were ever promised by the VA was the GI Bill, comp for service-connected disabilities, care for service-connected disabilities, and burial in a national cemetery. That “package” has grown over time as the rest of the US giveaway system has grown. And people (including scammers) have noticed – and taken advantage. When there’s free stuff to be had for asking, someone will figure out how to get some of it illicitly.
Bottom line: you were never promised lifetime comprehensive health care by the VA simply because you’re a vet. That is a relatively (last 20 years or so) recent development, and it’s also resource-dependent. It only exists because the VA’s budget has roughly tripled in the last 20 years (give or take). I’d guess it’s a primary reason the budget for VA healthcare has grown so much.
The statutory definition is “a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.” (10 U.S.C. 101).
Kind of awkward and it’s not as cut-and-dried as you might think…the VA has regulations to determine what “other than dishonorable” really means, and sometimes they determine that an other-than-honorable (OTH) discharge can be “other than dishonorable” for their purposes.
(Even this varies from benefit to benefit…if you want your GI Bill, you’d better have an honorable discharge.)
P.S. – While I won’t be reading the proposal ’til tonight, I suspect this is akin to the exception for “military sexual trauma” that is already out there…i.e., you can get some medical care and treatment even if you are not otherwise a “veteran.”
If your discharge is O.T.H. and you are barred from benefits. You cannot receive M.S.T. benefits from the V.A. At least research before you post. People whom count on there brothers having the right info might be harmed when confronted with the actual reality.
Please research the correct use of the word whom.
Word.
If you’re looking for perfection in folks with mental health or substance abuse issues, you’re going to be gazing up that tree for quite awhile. That includes veterans, or people-who-served-but-not-perfectly.
Agreed, PN. But if someone’s mental issues were either (a) conditions existing prior to enlistment, or (b) were not a factor in their failing to uphold their end of their enlistment contract – then why in the hell should Uncle Sam (and specifically, the VA) be on the hook for care?
Uncle Sam has a moral responsibility to “fix what he broke”. He doesn’t have the responsibility to care for you cradle-to-grave, nor should he simply give everyone a pass for willful misconduct.
If an individual can successfully argue that mental issues which developed during service led to a “bad” discharge, they can almost certainly receive a discharge upgrade these days. From some recent decisions I’ve read, that includes what appear to me to be some rather specious claims of “PTSD-induced” bad behavior leading to “bad” discharges.
Bad actions should have consequences. IMO far too many are no longer being held accountable for their own free choices to engage in bad behavior.
Part of the problem is that, compared to the other medical sciences, psychiatry is still in its infancy. Compounding that is the infancy of using psychotropics to treat mentally ill people. It wasn’t that long ago that dark padded rooms and frontal lobotomy were cutting edge medicine! The medical and legal morass of attempting to establish punishable accountability for actions that may or may not have been influenced by some form of mental illness is a very real problem.
PN, you’re on the mark… and don’t forget electroshock and insulin shock therapy as a means of treating mental health problems!
I have a D.E.E.R.S. account like everyone else whom served i.e. the D.O.D. lists me as a Veteran. I have an ebenefits account and am listed as a Veteran. Barred from benefits anyway. I served well over 180 days and never received due process in my case. i.e. no Court martial proceedings. Completely administrative. The ethos of “no soldier left behind” is whats at stack here. We as Veterans are only as strong as our weakest link. When we make excuses for allowing a system to kill our Brothers and Sisters in arms we are saying we would leave our wounded Brothers to die on the battle field. We don’t do that,we risk our lives to insure our Brothers are ok, tell me when did this stop for you? Because as an Honorably Discharged National guard member and an OTH holder from the Army,Sir, I would risk my life today for my brother, thats you! Whats your excuse Sir? With 22 vets a day thats 8000 per year dieing by there own hand maybe we should stop saying your bad and start saying lets help. We as Veterans look horrible at best when we don’t do our best to insure that everyone whom served is granted help. It is only simply the right thing to do.
@ Donald S.: What are you babbling about? Your posts (multiple) make no sense. What benefits do you think you are entitled to?
Sir,I don’t think I am entitled to anything. This sir is not about your wallet. Its about standing up and standing tall for your fellow brothers.Its about an ethos lost.Its about folks who think entitlement is the discussion.Its simple 22 vets everyday die.At there hands.Hope lost.Its about those who dont understand there responsible in civilian life just as they were in Military life. So sir, Babbling or not (your opinion) got you to read those posts. Oh and the way many people have left multiple posts.What your point?
You keep repeating that 22 per day lie, which has never made any sense to anyone who can do the most simple math. At that rate, very few of us would remain over the years which the lie has been told.
So, yeah, the question of what exactly is your complaint is more than legitimate.
Sounds like you have some heartburn about your personal issues. Until you ask for our advice with a lot more specific info there is not much any of us can do for you, assuming what you might ask of us is even in our lane.
Then you go argue with the va. because sir its there stats not mine
And we all know how well they generate useful statistics.
(In case you missed it, that there is sarcasm. The VA, or DVA, if anyone refers, only seems to be able to misappropriate numbers. Pretty safe bet that any they generate are wrong.)
After a very careful and expensive audit they could only find a couple of guys nationwide claiming POW status who were not in fact POW’s. That in spite of dozens known to others.
I’ll be happy to chime in on this. First, I resent the reminder that he begins his note with. None of us needs it, least of all from those who failed to meet that very obligation while in service. Second, B. Woodman makes the point I had in mind. Most assholes were assholes before they entered service and their failure in the military is just another item in their litany of life failures. Why are these rejects now to be given special consideration by members of a club that they, by their own actions, caused their dismissal from? I don’t get it. While I am not devoid of compassion for those who fall victim to human weakness in the worst ways, the appeal should be on that basis alone. Less-than-honorable character of service is just that and using the “Veteran” claim to curry sympathy from critters or others is, in my view, just plain wrong. You don’t have a chip to cash so back away from the cashier.
I never joined a club. I joined to defend my nation and make a difference. Military Service is not a club Sir, and that is exactly whats wrong.That mentality that makes you think that you are above all others because you served. Is gross!! I joined and was a volunteer. I was lied to abused and treated improperly by folks who believed it was a Club.Your fellow veteran’s are dieing from suicide at the rate of 22 per day 8000 per year. Do you not care? Do you have no empathy? Or Sir would you just leave these Brothers whom are injured would you just leave them on the battlefield to die. Stand on these Brothers neck’s sir, so you can see the way to get yours.Let me pass on the idea to join your club my dues are paid in full. I have experienced the worst that our military has to offer and I would do it all again to defend you.To defend your family.To defend our nation.I have never walked away from my Brother’s,in military life and most importantly in Civilian life. What kind of a Soldier would even consider that?
I read most of your message. Despite my strong inclination to lay into you from one side to the other, I’ll offer this: Best of luck to you.
Devil’s advocate here.
I have served with individuals who were good soldiers before they went downrange, and due to things that happened and toxic leadership after they got back, they were not able to get the help that they needed and ended up under the bus.
While that obviously doesn’t account for all LTH discharges, it does explain some of them. How about we give follow Reagan’s advice and trust, but verify with these individuals?
If they had a paper trail before they went in, and got waivers then we can turn our backs on them, but otherwise we look after our brothers and sisters who need help?
I say this because I once had a troop who I lost due to this very reason. Good soldier, had shit go downhill on him while we were overseas, he was moved out of my platoon, his new chain of command didn’t get him any help (which he had requested), and he ended up getting a LTH after he got back from the deployment.
http://m.realwarriors.net/veterans/discharge/upgrade.php
They can try to upgrade their discharge status too.
Yeah, there are many more anecdotal stories of good people who took a wrong turn and never recovered. I don’t view those people as I do others but lumping them all together for benies or other special considerations is wrongheaded because the perma-shitbags will be among them and probably first in line. Figure out a way to distinguish the members of the LTH/OTH club and I may change my tune. Until then, no dice.
Bingo. You have guys like one I saw overseas – who was dealing dope and got caught. He was offered and accepted an OTH discharge in lieu of court-martial because of administrative issues with the criminal case.
This didn’t happen in a combat zone. But I’m guessing he’d be one of the first at the front of the line to claim “PTSD” from being overseas.
Well, that kind of makes you the problem. Because in the absence of understanding each Lth/Oth person’s story lumping “perma shitbags” into your club classification says you make determination’s on your emotions. Sir, in battle there can be no emotion or your dead. Training,logic and will this is what keeps you alive but sir most import is the knowledge that your brother to your left your brother to your rightyour brother right behind you is using the same skill set (training)and has your back.Why must you now that your no longer active, think your obligation to your brother is lost. You took an oath as every single member ever of the armed forces of America has. In the absence of no meaningful way to distinguish between the “perma shitbags” we should just shut our mouth and help. Because creating a club like atmosphere is killing our Brothers. Too many Deserving Veterans are being lumped into your “Perma Shitbags” club whom are innocent.
So what’s next?
Unemployment bennies for those who quit their jobs or are fired for misconduct?
Socialism. Gotta luvit….
Thank you one and all for the usual TAH discourse and discussion; measured, informative, and intelligent.
SO it comes down to: You may be a Vet even if you received an OTH.
BUT, let’s look at the paper trail, before, during, and after your time in service (TIS).
Did you have mental and substance abuse problems (being a douchebag) Before AND During your TIS? If so, you are (should be) a NoGo at this station for any further VA care.
If you were squared away before and during your TIS, but ran into circumstances beyond your control, after trying everything you possibly could, but got an OTH anyway, then let us help you, you deserve it.
Now it comes down to “God is in the planning and the Devil is in the details”. How do you sort and separate one from the other? How do you make sure that one is branded so that they don’t suck up any more of the VAs precious and scarce time and dollars? And how do you make sure that the VA even listens in the first, second, and third place?
As nbcguy54ACTUAL references above, there’s an established method for doing this – you petition for a discharge upgrade. If you were injured due to your service, physically, mentally, psychologically, etc., and that injury caused the behavior that led to your LTH discharge, show that and get it upgraded. THEN come around talking about benefits.
That said, if a guy is suicidal and he shows up anywhere looking for help, he should get help, same way as he should if he collapses on the street from a heart attack. But that applies to veterans as well as non-veterans.
As things currently stand, the VA doesn’t require you to upgrade the discharge before getting benefits….especially not when you are dealing with an exception like the one for military sexual trauma (or, I suspect, the one this proposal would create).
An OTH discharge puts you in line for a regulatory bar to benefits. For example, the VA may consider whether the crime that got you discharged involved “moral turpitude” or “willful and persistent misconduct.” If they decide you didn’t, you may get the benefits even though your discharge is still listed as OTH. The point is, that’s a decision made by VA.
If your discharge is (or gets upgraded to) “general under honorable conditions” …then you’re a veteran, and you won’t lose benefits unless you hit a statutory bar (such as discharge for desertion). But the decision to give a general discharge or upgrade an OTH to general is made by a Discharge Review Board from the Armed Force you were discharged from, not by the VA.
So, an upgrade from the Armed Forces is one path from OTH to benefits; a friendly determination by the VA (without the upgrade) is another path.
If Hondo’s ideas were implemented it would be a different story…you’d need the good discharge or the upgrade in order to get the benefits. But as it is, sometimes you do and sometimes you don’t.
But you may have been saying you agree with Hondo, rather than that the law is already this way; in which case I am inclined to agree with you both.
(Slight misstatement by me: obviously the choice to give a general discharge to start with doesn’t involve the DRB; only an upgrade does. But you know what I meant.)
“But you may have been saying you agree with Hondo, rather than that the law is already this way; in which case I am inclined to agree with you both.” Exactly, right, I’m on the Hondo bus. And I’ll happily to defer to you on the current state of the law, with appreciation for chiming in!
Having read the article now, I’m less than impressed.
He doesn’t mention that a commander can’t OTH a person by himself…if they try to OTH you, you get a board (3 or more members, at least in the Army) plus a defense attorney, and the question of discharge and characterization goes before them. And if you’ve really got something that needs treatment, you have every opportunity to argue that in front of them, to persuade them to take it up to a general discharge.
A commander can hand down a general discharge without a board…but if the servicemember has enough time in service, he can get a right to a board anyway). But “general” is the default for a lot of commanders, in part because it’s quicker than convening a board.
That’s what a first offender will typically get for “pissing hot on a random drug test”…or at least that’s what I usually saw. And if it’s “after two combat deployments” he has probably gone past the end of his original enlistment, which means he’s got a prior honorable term of service anyway, which means benefits. (Only a few offenses, such as espionage, reach back to cancel a prior good term.)
Oh, and it’s not “missing” for 180 days that’s a statutory bar to benefits. It’s AWOL for 180 days with an OTH discharge. Nothing “arbitrary” about that. (In fact, the VA can find “compelling circumstances” and grant benefits anyway on that one.)
I assume the author knows all this, but leaves it out to make the current system seem less fair, and his rhetoric more persuasive.
Your wrong. Simply talking out the side of your neck. I have two discharges and only one is oth. Barred from services. I had no options for my Administrative discharge.See,more club mentality. You think you know it all. On my discharge it even says where my signature would be not available for signature.I was in the hospital,a military hospital. I lost my mind temporarily.Gee, Sorry. I guess 40 months of conflict wasn’t enough. I paid my dues with my life and the majority of my Brothers just turned there back on me.So again what happened to the ethos “No soldier left behind” Truth might be hard for you to take but unless we are all cowards we better go school ourselves before we start to execute or sentence to life a brother who served.
Your attempt to educate posters on this blog, many that are Combat Veterans will not go unchecked. While I agree that the circumstances of undesirable discharges should be evaluated on a case by case basis in regards to VA benefits, there still is personal responsibility for each individual. For example, The individual chose to enlist/accept commission and chose to not fulfill their obligation Honorably, there are consequences to those choices. Further, the individual has the opportunity, with evidence, to request an upgrade on their character of service. There are many services available to non veterans and veterans not eligible for VA benefits, specifically for suicide prevention. My desire is that all men and women that have served our great nation be afforded the opportunity for benefits, but not at the cost of those that earned it Honorably. I would encourage you to consider that “No Soldier Left Behind” is a two way street.
Sir, I am a combat vet. 40 months.I have somewhere to stand from and on. I respect you or anyone else who has served and sir my opinion is anyone who has served deserves consideration or there day to explain what may have happened. Many never get this opportunity. Again yes the military has a process to upgrade your service it can take years and then the percentage of changes is single digits. Go research. Bad and unfair practices happen everyday. People are not all good. They make bad decisions constantly. What makes you think that Military personnel are exempt? http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/11/20/green-beret-discharged-confronting-accused-afghan-rapist.html
hear is a link go read.Sometimes common sense just escapes even those whom(just had to put in one more whom)everyone thinks is great.I serve each day my Brothers.I don’t need the V.A. This is not about me personally.This is about ignorance and Naive understanding of what is happening to dis-enfranchised Veterans. There are so many innocent people being treated wrong.I only ask that anyone who does not know or understand simply spend a little of your time and do some Google research. Maybe just maybe we could learn something.
That is a dated article you provided, check this one out in regards to SFC Charles Martland.
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=65512
Back on topic, I personally hold military personnel to a higher standard, if it was easy, everyone would do it. Bad decisions equals suffer the consequences, we all signed on the dotted line promising to be above reproach. When we fail, we cannot expect our actions to vaporize from our records and then reap the benefits.
It is not the responsibility of the veteran who served Honorably or the taxpayer to fix the character of service for those that did not. There are already procedures in place for this and if it takes many years or there are only small percentages changed, then so be it, that is called consequence.
There is the point.Not long ago it was not a choice. Yes today its a volunteer Military. Everyone did serve without choice in WWII (draft) Everyone did serve without choice in Vietnam (draft) My point that this effects the way we interpret the volunteer Military today.Vietnam era vets were drafted yet they are still in our system and there Military experience is not the same as Iraq and Afghanistan Vets. Its not the same perspective for the Vet.Everyone served but not the same.The military is not the same. Everything is different.Training Equipment and personnel but we still must understand they served. One group of Vets is not better then another for you or anyone else to not understand that is at best callous.No empathy and self serving. Which is exactly my point.I used the link toward SFC Martland because it come from a link which is respected i.e. Military.com I know he was re-instated I also know the incident occured in 2011 and its 2016 I also understand that without Congressional Help SFC. Martland would have been another oth discharged vet It should be a no brainer. Mistakes are being made constantly and have for many years and Brothers are turning there backs on those Brothers before they even know whats going on.As is SFC Martlands story gross it happens
No, “everyone” was NOT drafted.
And, yeah, those who serve honorably are generally held in higher esteem than those who do not. Got a problem with that, take it up with whoever invented human nature.
Bingo. Only about 25% of those who served in-country during Vietnam were draftees. The rest joined voluntarily.
http://mrfa.org/vnstats.htm
Donald S.: Maybe consider not speaking in absolutes, such as using ‘everybody’ in a sentence. The use of absolutes very rarely applies to a subject matter. I pointed this out to your brother, Lars, a few months back. Also, sounds as if you screwed up and are bitter because, of course, it wasn’t your fault or you got a bad deal or some other pablum. I do like PH2’s advice re establishing benefits through the VA. I’ve noted that many on this blog are more than willing to help a fellow veteran … it’s in their nature to do so. It’s part of the ideology of ‘leave no man/woman behind’. Anyway, I do hope it works well for you. If you are wanting assistance, contact Jonn via the link above. Oh, BTW, Jonn is somewhat temporarily out of the loop. He says he was evicted from his home so that remodeling can be done. We know, however, that he is on a weeks long drinking binge. Hope some can offer assistance/advice. /sarc re Jonn. (Or not?)
YaDa YaDa YaDa.
You’re way behind the power curve on getting the updates on the Green Beret discharge story.
dieing – dying
whom – who
there – their
your – you’re
Learn them, use them.
How about throwing in a few apostrophes, commas and periods when the occasion calls for them.
The spelling and grammar Nazis are watching. If you keep it up, you’re going to end up on Joey Wilson’s shirt list.
And you don’t want that. Being on Joey Wilson’s shirt list will haunt you for the rest of your life.
Why is it that people like you never want to speak about the situation and attempt to spin the scene to some point that has no common ground. I have sir no use of my right arm,no use of my left leg and am nearly completely blind. I do my best with no sight and one finger.See worthless attacks.This your best. Look what it took for him to be treated right? Are you kidding sir? I believe thats the point.
My point was sarcasm.
If after “40 months of Combat” you can’t see that, then your Bullshit Detector needs a new battery.
Got it?
And there you have it, folks. Our FNG commenter “Donalt S.” is more of an expert on administrative discharges and how they affect (or don’t affect) VA benefits than a military lawyer with several years professional experience in the matter.
In case you didn’t realize it, dipstick (AKA “Donald S.”): Alberich is a current or former JAG officer. He’s had to advise people on the effects of a “bad” discharge in his professional capacity. Ya might just want to avoid telling him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about on these matters. He most certainly does.
And this is what I said about DS aka dipstick’s opinions:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=65139&cpage=1#comment-2839352
Aside from that, he’s a whiny little crumpet looking for freebies and was turned down.
I hear Jeffrey Belk wants to know what he can do to help this great cause.
I wonder how many people called or emailed their legislators to OPPOSE this legislation. I’m guessing…none. That may change to at least one if our single-shooting visitor keeps it up.
Truth can be harsh!!!!
When you say lost your mind, what exactly do you mean? I had Marines deal with psych issues and were discharged because of them. They didn’t get OTH’s. One even checked himself into a state hospital 4 days before we were supposed to fly out. He didn’t get an OTH. There’s more to your story that you’re not telling.
I lost my mind sir from my injuries.I will never again see my wife. I will never have children.I will never run. So sir what is your point? Instantly you think I skated by somehow. What is it you think i have done? For you to assume that the system is correct and your brother is wrong is gross. Your making assumptions based on a prejudice.I was fortunate to find a path without Govt. help. I pay for it out of my own pocket. As far as what happened to me sir,its none of your business. I rarely speak of it and don’t wish to. My point is easy. Don’t speak unless you know the truth. Find that truth based on truth not assumptions My situation in that it was horrible by far is not the worst scene created by folks who think they are great.When I was hurt it was my brothers who got me home.If not for them I would have died. I am happy to have survived. But more important am honored that I am in a position to help my Brothers whom have been mis-treated.Brothers waiting to be approved by the V.A. My family and I are currently personally helping four vets.These Vets are not homeless,cold, hungry or friendless. I volunteer my time with a program called SSvf. Supportive services for Veteran familys. I roll out in my chair three days a week on the street and talk with and support my Brothers on the street.Each Saturday I hand out sack lunches to the unfortunate.My life sir is consumed with helping Vets.I understand that each one of these Vets could be the one who saved me.I never don’t think like that.Tell me what do you do Sir? Tell me what do you live with Sir from your service? Because to me its our responsibility to insure our Brothers and Sisters who have served with us regardless of when or where they served are protected and that someone cares.There are too many Vets falling through the cracks and not enough Vets standing up for them. Defending them… Read more »
The audience that you might have had you lost, David S. If you want to yell and scream and pound the keys some more, go for it. Just understand that you are not furthering your cause. Many Veterans here do much for our fellow Veterans although I don’t know that handing out a sandwich every Saturday to someone on the street who says he is a Vet is something anyone but you does. But that’s great if it makes you happy and gives you a sense of self worth. Just ease up on the preachy, holier-than-thou stuff. Or don’t. It doesn’t much matter, really. Good luck.
Sorry. I meant Donald S., not David S.
You are incorrect, Donald S. There are far too many vets commenting on TAH who have service-connected disabilities.
Unless you behaved badly, if you have a service-connected disability you do not get an OTH or LTH discharge. PERIOD.
You are incorrect.
Pretty much spot-on, Ex-PH2. From AR 135-178, Enlisted Administrative Separations, para 2-9: c. Under other than honorable conditions. Service may be characterized as under other than honorable conditions only when discharge is for misconduct, fraudulent entry, unsatisfactory participation, or security reasons, and under the following circumstances: (1) When the reason for discharge is based upon a pattern of behavior, or one or more acts or omissions, that constitutes a significant departure from the conduct expected of Soldiers. Examples of factors that may be considered include the following: (a) Use of force or violence to produce serious bodily injury or death. (b) Abuse of a position of trust. (c) Disregard by a superior of customary superior-subordinate relationships. (d) Acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other Soldiers. (e) Deliberate acts or omissions that seriously endanger the health and safety of other persons. (2) A discharge where service is characterized as under other than honorable conditions will be directed only by a general officer in command who has a judge advocate or legal advisor available to the command, or a higher authority in accordance with paragraphs 1–10a and b(1) and (2), of this regulation. (3) No Soldier will be discharged in accordance with this regulation, with service characterized as under other than honorable conditions, unless he or she is afforded the right to present his or her case before an administrative separation board. The Soldier will be afforded the advice and assistance of counsel. Such discharge must be supported by approved board findings, and an approved board recommendation for discharge under other than honorable conditions. (4) As an exception to paragraph (3), above, a discharge with service characterized as under other than honorable conditions may be issued without board action if the Soldier waives their right to board action. (5) When a Soldier is to be discharged under other then honorable conditions, the separation authority will direct an immediate reduction to private E–1, in accordance with AR 600–8–19, chapter 10. Other provisions of the reg (and Federal law) mandate an exam… Read more »
What I suspect is that you’re blaming PTSD for criminal behavior. I am T&P for PTSD and I’m a retired state trooper. I know a little bit about both PTSD and criminal behavior. Yes PTSD may cause some alcohol related crime like DWI, but there is no way you can blame violent crime on it. That one’s on you.
Can I go file a claim of PTSD from just reading the crap by these whiners?
Probably. I know Lars stoking his anger fire here isn’t going to help him.
And if you truly didn’t want to speak on it then don’t. You’re the one that made it an issue.
And don’t pretend that you’ve got a monopoly on helping vets. Some of the people here have done more for vets than you will do in a lifetime.
There’s a braille version of this blog? Cool.
Don’t tell IDC SARC. If he finds out, the rest of us will never be able to access any of the pages with pics of fine-looking women. (smile)
…and the pages will be all sticky
Figures.
I thought you knew, IDC SARC, that the rule was no jam sandwiches when you’re reading anything.
Here’s the deal, sport aka DonaldS.
You send your info to the admin of this blog. Contact info is at the link at the top of the blog page. He’ll get an FOIA on you to confirm your service. If you’re a lying dork, we’ll know in a heartbeat. If your issue is real, we’ll also know that. There are plenty of people who are willing to help a vet get benefits if they are having a difficult time, and that includes VSOs.
But if you just showed up to gross and grumble and whine and get attention, and call people names, you are wasting your time.
It’s simple.
Accck! ‘gross’ should be ‘grouse’. My bad.
I think gross works equally well in this instance.
Ahhhh come on Donald. Do you not wanna play anymore since you found out you don’t have a monopoly on ptsd?