A little light…
Governor Greg Abbott (R-Tex)
…at last.
Figures it’s in Texas, where the Governor is pulling back some restrictions. Caught some of Gov. Cuomo bloviating this morning; looks like hospitalizations due to the virus have peaked in New York, and are on the down-side. This is all good news.
TX Gov. Abbott unveils guidelines to reopen state – first state to do so
Gov. Greg Abbott unveiled guidelines Friday that permit businesses to begin reopening their doors in the face of the novel coronavirus’ spread and announced Texas schools will remain closed for the rest of the academic year.
He issued three executive orders and rolled back some restrictions, including permitting additional surgeries, reopening state parks and allowing retail businesses to operate “to-go.”
“We’re now beginning to see glimmers that the worst of COVID-19 may soon be behind us,” Abbott said Friday from the Texas Capitol, flanked by state leaders. “We have demonstrated that we can corral the coronavirus.”
In addition, Abbott established the “Strike Force to Open Texas” that will develop guidelines on when and how more businesses may reopen. It will be led by James Huffines, a banker who has served on The University of Texas System Board of Regents, and lobbyist Mike Toomey will serve as its chief operating officer.
The task force will be a collaboration between state officials and advised by both public health experts and business leaders, including members from the Dallas-Fort Worth area like Ross Perot, Jr. and Bobby Cox.
Read the rest of the article here: American Military News
Got to start somewhere, might as well be there. We have allowed this Chinesecommunist Originated Virus Infecting Disease of 2019 (COVID19) to completely disrupt the entire economy of the Country. Open us back up and send the ENTIRE BILL for what this cost to the Communist Chinese Government. The longer we wait, the more the dims are gonna blame Trump and the more they are going to pad the “stimulus bill.” Y’all see where das Bloviatingus is asking for another 7.2 billion or Noo Yawk City will fail?
The stimulus padding was the corporate bailouts.
Can’t blame that in dems. Bipartisan at least.
Eff you, you effing dipsh^t socialist POS. And while you’re at it, why don’t you just kiss my ass? No, belay that, I’m a little choosy about who I let kiss my ass. Why don’t you read something besides your socialistic propaganda. Cuckomo is demanding more and more $s, so is Bloviatingso. The innerwebz are full of documented cases of Blue state guvs padding their request for more $ to pad their failed socialistic free sh^t crap that they use to buy votes. Pigolosi has already said she is holding up any more bills until she gets what she wants. Michigan shut down most everything but abortion clinics, and she’s wanting more money for that. The state of Illinois is asking for 41 billion of which 10 billion is for pension fund relief/saving. The initial bill was packed with raises for kongress kritters, millions for the Kennedy Center, hundreds of millions for immigrants. The list goes on.
You are literally the most self centered asinine, stupidest mofo that shows up here. If you were to have been an ossifer “back in the day” you would have been one of those “friendly fire” statistics. Why don’t you go suck start a thumper? Your mommy called, she’s got a fresh cream pie for you.
My response inspired that?
No. Your very existence inspires that.
You inspire diarrhea, now go change your sheets and suck your mama’s teat!
The ruling Democratic Party, via the Senate President, in Illinois is asking for $41 Billion in COVID-19 Stimulus in the next round. $10 Billion of that is to bail out the state government’s cash-strapped underfunded retirement system. The Illinois’ $138 Billion underfunded pension liability has been decades in the making.
Especially those darn Subchapter S corporations.
“Abbott’s suspension of elective surgeries also resulted in a ban on most abortions in Texas. The ban has been the focus of a back-and-forth legal battle between the state and abortion providers, and Abbott said Friday abortion procedures are “not part of this order” and that “ultimately, obviously that will be a decision for courts to make.””
Since when is killing the unborn non-essential?
The idiot governor of Michigan last week (who has forced business to rope off “non-essential” items like lawn and garden and furniture departments) defended leaving abortion clinics open. She called them “life sustaining.”
No matter which side of the abortion issue you’re on, I think we can all agree that it is not “life sustaining.”
She’s much more than an idiot. As Tucker Carlson put it, she’s a ghoul. To that brain-dead twat, joint replacement surgery is “non-essential,” while abortion is “essential.” She’s paying back the scumbags who bankrolled her last campaign.
Not only is she a soulless Nazi ghoul, she also looks as botoxed as Malig-Nancy Pelosi!
They are peaking in areas where measures to slow and stop the spread are implemented and being followed.
In areas not following sufficient measures to stop the spread the virus has not yet peaked.
And as soon as we stop these measures, particularly if this fall, we will see another spike.
This will not be over until we have herd immunity of a vaccine.
And we cant fix the economy until we deal with this virus.
People need their jobs. Folks got to eat, pay for a roof, etc.
The economy will take care of the virus, like it has every year since say 1775.
This was overblown, again.
Bad flu year, at most.
Overblown by the usual “government savior” bullshit artists.
And your credibility is still zero, so keep honkin that Kazoo there, Comrade!
A bad flu for which we had no immunity and no vaccine.
We are at over 40,000k dead and this is just the start of this thing.
If we were not social distancing it would be a lot worse.
And the economy would be impacted nearly as hard. Perhaps worse.
Companies would have 20% of their workforce sick at a time and people would be afraid to patronize most services.
Already on the way down, post peak.
You panic mongers hyped a flawed and badly overdone model, again, in your lust for ever more power for your ignorant foolish “theories” that never seem to work.
You folks lied to us, again. And this time you can’t claim ignorance. It was with malice aforethought I that the BS model was hyped.
Flu season. We gonna do this every year now, Komrade Kazoo?
You are wrong again.
Let’s not forget that he once howled that the Zika Virus was going to wipe us out!
“We are at over 40,000k dead and this is just the start of this thing”
That’s about 2/3 of the 2018 flu and we are
not at the beginning of this although I
can understand why you wish it were so.
Sure, it will be around forever but so will
crabs.
If they were right, they would not have to lie.
Adjusting the models to fit the data, without admitting the model is wrong, is -lying-.
The Spanish flu 1918, caused by the H1N1 virus, killed off at least 50 million people worldwide, part of which was due to lack of the current medicines and medical aid that we sometimes take for granted. And that virus changes every year, which is why you have to get a flu shot every year.
This bug? 166,494 deaths so far, lagging far behind the 1918 pandemic, and it appears to be leveling off at this point.
Some of that is due to the precautions everyone is taking, and to modern medical care and modern medicines, and some of it is that it is a much weaker bug than the H1N1 bug from 1918.
And the interesting thing is that most of the casualties come from socialist blue states. Wonder why? Of course those states are falsely claiming everyone who dies died from COVID 19 so they get more federal money out of it. The death numbers are significantly inflated in the blue states.
No immunity and no vaccine? Great. Let’s stop the world!!!
Just from personal experience, vaccines aren’t that great.
Flu vaccine AND pneumonia vaccine in November (Tuesday before Thanksgiving to be precise).
Guess who got the flu in January AND pneumonia in February?
This guy.
Followed by “unknown lower respiratory infection” in March.
So yeah, people are gonna die. Shit happens. Deal with it. Let’s not screw over the whole country because of panic
“A bad flu for which we had no immunity and no vaccine.”
Every year (flu season, get it?) we have a new flu for which there is no immunity and a vaccine which is the product of guess work which may or may not be effective.
That’s life; deal with it.
do you even think before you post, or just regurgitate the crap your echo chamber instructs you to? None of what you’re saying is based in fact, or even makes much sense. How about you leave this to the adults, especially those of us actually dealing with the situation. We just MIGHT be better informed than you are..
Be more specific. Everything I said is sound and consistent with any mathematical model.
The only way it would be untrue is if you thought this virus was not real.
Did you once again whip your Empirical Evidence out for all to see?
NO… NOT THAT… THE DREADED “EMPIRICAL” EVIDENCE”
Scroll down to the Daily Counts charts- they all show a marked decrease in cases, hospitalizations and deaths.
NYC.Gov Link
Because of social distancing and other measures.
My point is that without these measures things would be worse.
And if we end the measures they will get worse fast.
Though you are wrong that hospitalizations and deaths have dropped everywhere in the US. Just overall. There are several locals and states where measures are not being effectively implemented that are still seeing rising deaths and infections.
Those would be places that were late getting their first infections. As the Israeli study shows, this virus follows a set pattern, over a fairly standardized time frame, so say that time-frame is two months long. If the places you mention had their first case a month after NY, it would stand to reason that they’d hit their peak a month later than them, and all other benchmarks would be a month later as well. Again, this is all pretty simple, you should be able to grasp it.
Don’t disagree, Lars. I didn’t say everywhere. The PDRofMD where I unfortunately reside, is still on the upswing. Trump’s guidelines let the Governors of the several States make the call when they can begin to relax the protocols. Exactly as it should be.
My local hospital is actually struggling to keep their employees busy. All elective surgeries aren’t being scheduled, and with 24 positive tests, 4 hospitalized, no deaths in the county, the hospital has nothing much to do. People aren’t even going to the ER if they can avoid it.
Every model has been proven to be bullshit. New York and others have done a crap job of following social distancing (why it’s hit certain communities harder, NOT because of racism as idiots have been saying), and the death tolls are STILL nowhere near the projections. The only reason the numbers are anywhere near as high as they are is because EVERYONE that dies while positive, or even showing signs / symptoms is counted as a Covid death, regardless if that’s what actually killed them (your opinion on this does NOT matter, I got it straight from state officials on a conference call)
Herd immunity can be built as it is in an actual herd, not just through a vaccine, There will be no economy (collapse of the food supply chain, etc) if we don’t start to restart it. Waiting for the mythical end of the virus before doing that is ridiculous. The study out of Israel shows there’s no statistical difference between strict social distancing, and doing nothing. (I can’t find the link, but it was in an earlier thread if you care to look). Back to the models, they are all just guesses anyway, as SARS just disappeared, even though the original models for that were much worse. No-one, even the “experts” really knows what is going to happen here, only that their original estimations were about as accurate as the global warming hockey stick one.. (like Cuomo saying they’d need 50,000 ventilators, and actually needing less than 10% of that). And as for not thinking this virus is real, wrong again, I’ve lost an Aunt and an Uncle to it. Doesn’t change the facts that this is far more a dem-panic than a pan-demic..
A crap job still slows the spread.
It still saves lives.
I am not sure what your agenda is. But it clearly has nothing to do with dealing with this crisis.
Fucker EVERY day i’m on the street, dealing with this crisis, which is a shit-ton more than you. Please learn basic English. Slowing the spread does NOTHING to change the numbers, only the rate at which they occur, and how long this lasts. This is not an advanced concept, but it still seems to escape your simple mind. I have no agenda other than the one I’ve had for 35 years, and that’s to serve my community as a first responder. I know that I am not the first, nor the most distinguished to suggest this to you, but EABOD! You truly are an insufferable cunt.
Even by your low standards, that was an abysmally ignorant thing to say.
“I am not sure what your agenda is”
Typical. And you whine about personal attacks and why people here think you are an asshole.
Actually the numbers are pretty accurate, if we can trust we know the actual numbers of infected based on reported cases. As was originally discussed in Hondo’s thread on the topic I noted it was killing 1 in 20 worldwide, at that time it was not killing that many here in the US against reported cases.
As we only have the numbers we know for certain to compare apples to apples with regular flu we report roughly 60 million regular flu infections and maybe in a really bad year you get 60,000 deaths as Hondo noted which is a .1% death rate. The US has reported 764,000 cases against 40,000 dead.
If we had 60 million reported infected using that death rate we would be looking at what Trump and Fauci said originally which is about 3 million dead.
I’m not sure where anyone thinking 3 million dead might be “overblown” with respect to the nature of this disease but we were struggling in keeping up with the need for ventilators with 740,000 cases. With 60 million cases of the disease the health care system’s rather under prepared health system would fail completely…which might in fact lead to more dead.
While there are often reasons to disagree with Commissar, he’s not wrong about social distancing and isolation measures being effective.
Once we reopen there’s an excellent chance we will see another spike in cases, I hope not but I would not be surprised.
Thank you for bringing a logical perspective to the inane rumblings about infection and mortality rates. You Sir are a voice of reason.
Note: I may have inadvertently hit “report comment” in my excitement to respond to your post.
“but we were struggling in keeping up with the need for ventilators with 740,000 cases.” Actually, that’s not accurate VoV. Cuomo et al would like you to believe so, and yes, we were struggling to keep up with the number of ventilators THEY were demanding, but as for the number of patients requiring one, not so much. There was never a time where they ran out of ventilators, and from the numbers I’ve seen, probably never went above 80% of available. Now, that’s not to say that DeBlazio shouldn’t have maintained the stockpile they were supposed to have in NYC instead of spending the cash on other giveaways to the FSA, he obviously should have, and that’s an issue that should be addressed, but still, we never hit numbers that we ran out of ventilators.
There is a two-fold reason for this. First, the numbers just weren’t that bad. second, as time went on, doctors found that going “old school” and putting people on ventilators at high pressures actually did more harm than good, due to cellular damage done by the virus, so they changed treatment modalities, which further decreased the number of ventilators needed.
Having contacts in systems all over the US, from what I’ve heard from them, the systems that were overwhelmed were those that did not adapt. Did not change the way they responded in the field, transport protocols, PPE usage, etc. This could be due to the EMS systems themselves being under funded or mismanaged, Physician advisers / politicians that don’t trust their providers and give them the latitude they need to operate and adjust in the field, or a number of other reasons. The bottom line, just like in nature, those that fail to adapt are the ones that suffer. The reasons for these failures to adapt is what should be looked at and adddressed.
Thanks for the update, appreciate the information.
The dead remain at 5% of reported cases though, and clearly we don’t know how many were actually infected but I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that it was 60 million just yet so I am not certain we know just how deadly this will be when it’s all behind us.
I’m not certain any of that is hype or overblown, I think it’s those health care professionals our elected representatives have chosen to offer advice trying to avoid being responsible for lots of dead Americans.
The evolving approach to the public information, to the treatment as you point out, all indicate the one reality of this virus versus others…we didn’t know shit about this one and maybe that is what made all these doctors and medical professionals quite nervous about what might be happening.
Very accurate statements VoV, especially the last one. The fatality numbers are definitely inflated, though by how much is something we may never know. In our state, EVERYONE that dies after testing positive, or even showing signs of the virus is counted as a Covid death (even if getting hit by a bus was what ultimately killed them). This is not anecdotal, this was direct from officials at the state OEM last week. While our number of cases is low compared to other states, It is safe to assume that a similar methodology is being used by other states, and if their numbers overall are higher, it’s likely that the inflation of stats follows a similar curve.
To everyone here, I wanted to apologize for my earlier explosion on the seagull. Nerves are a bit frayed, and sleep a bit scarce lately and I let it get the better of me.
OOh, I’m sorry, as far as the numbers, our fatality rate is showing roughly 1%, even with the inflation I mentioned. And that’s of known cases, with the asymptomatic / minimal symptoms level sitting at a projected 81% the mortality rate is likely half that. That is only for Colorado though, I don’t have access to numbers / stats directly from other states.
Sorry, Fyr, but our numbers show a 4.3% fatality rate in known cases. We have 422 dead out of 9730 cases. Perhaps you were looking at 422 out of the 46195 people tested? That would be 1%, but most of those were negative. The 9730 cases are the positives.
Site: https://covid19.colorado.gov/case-data
There is considerable hope in the numbers out of the Stanford antibody study, which estimates there could be 50-80x as many people infected, plenty mild, but there are questions about the validity of the antibody tests now. Boston did one, too, and something like 1/3rd of people had been exposed, which is also good, since that lowers the mortality rate dramatically. New York is about to do the largest test yet. With that data, we might be able to radically update the projections, but right now, our fatality rate still sits at a sobering 4.3%.
I grabbed the nationwide numbers, rather than state because in the end the Feds are responsible for the whole of the nation, which is why I believe they chose a cautious, “we don’t know what this is or how bad it will be” course of action…
Nationwide the numbers I saw today were 40,565 dead against 764,265 infected…that’s the 5% number I mentioned…
Not being argumentative, just wanted to clarify where I drew the numbers from. I still believe that will be less once we understand how many were actually infected which is a very large unknown at the moment.
I quote these numbers provided to explain why I believe the medical profession was cautious in their modeling…that’s a scary percentage if it were to hold and I believe they didn’t want to be responsible for not sounding a huge alarm.
It will be well under 1% once they test all the folks who has “a cold” or were not sick at all.
Probably under 0.1% net.
If it were 4% lethal, -here-, we would be hip deep in copses buy now.
It isnt.
@11B:
If that was to me, I tend to agree it’ll drop a fair bit. I’d bet under 0.1% is pushing it, but who knows?
My reply was to Fyr, who said:
Known cases are those that tested positive. In Colorado, that gives 4.3%, per the link above.
Now if only we had a lot more testing available…
Argue all you want about the numbers. As I have said before, they are all crap and will be for months if not years.
As Fyrfighter has said (I think) hospitals aren’t swamped, people are not dying for lack of equipment. and bodies are not stacked in the corridors. It’s past time to tone down the hysteria.
You just hit the key word, VoV…REPORTED.
Not total. And there are studies showing the number of asymptomatic cases is many times higher than previously thought. This would mean a mortality rate far lower than 5 percent, even approximately the same as a seasonal flu. While the lack of a vaccine is a legitimate concern, the mortality and infection rates may well prove to be highly inaccurate.
Understood which is why I reported them as I did.
During the lack of other numbers our medical advisers were understandably concerned, and once they saw what happened in Italy I believe they cautioned the President regarding worst case outcomes which was prudent.
That’s my take, not that anyone has to be “blamed” for anything, just that something new and possibly quite terrible was presenting itself and those medical professionals were cautioning risk averse options.
“While there are often reasons to disagree with Commissar, he’s not wrong about social distancing and isolation measures being effective.”
Nobody is disagreeing with that. I say again, nobody is disagreeing with that!
” if we can trust we know the actual numbers of infected based on reported cases.”
We can’t.
All the projections have turned out to be completely wrong. All of them. Actual figures, including those from the NYC area, have not aligned with projections.
Your point?
The original 1-2 million dead was based taking no action. We don’t know if that was accurate. Because we took action.
Then they revised estimates down to 100-200k based on mitigation efforts. We don’t know if that one was correct.
Then it was revised down to 60k. We already know it was wrong because it showed a peak last weekend.
They revised that up to 90k which I think is the current projection.
The fact is we don’t know. All we do know is that measures to slow the spread work. And save lives. If we implement them.
The sooner the we lift them the sooner we accelerate the spread again.
A – I was NOT addressing you, you vainglorious dimwit, and
B – You have no back up to ANYTHING you ever post. You just post smatterings and natterings, which is why no one takes YOU seriously, LARS. Your viewpoint is ALWAYS unsubstantiated.
and C – You can’t even write complete sentences. You are subliterate at best. When you learn how to compose complete sentences, let someone know, you boring, narrow-minded dimwit.
The original models were utter bullshit.
No significant numbers of lives were “saved”. We may have spread it out some, but the area under the curve is unchanged.
The tell is when the need for power keeps growing and shifting, no matter how much this thing fizzled.
Fizzled! Flu is a -more- lethal bug, and we handle it every year.
Kinda like I predicted eh? Still within flu levels eh? Massively less lethal than Komrade Kazoo said, eh?
Busted, you are. Again. Keep honking that Kazoo. Don’t change a false note. You single-handedly destroy your position with almost every utterance.
Lars says, “Be more specific. Everything I said is sound and consistent with any mathematical model.”
Totally oblivious to the reality that so far, all his precious mathematical models have been ridiculously off-base. Lars’ child-like faith in them would be laughable were it not for the grievous harm these panic-generated models have caused the people of this nation.
We can only be thankful we didn’t let the liberals have their way on global warming based on their silly, pipe-dream “mathematical models.”
By the way, Lars, when are you going to bring us a report based on your “empirical data” regarding all those unfortunate citizens killed by Trump’s reckless, “unproved” and “untested” hydroxychloroquine therapy, hmm?
You might wanna run it by LC for a peer review.
We wait with bated breath, dipshit…
Even the best mathematical models are approximations, and even the best models produce crap if the input data is crap. And that is what we have now–crap data. It is absurd for people to complain about the lack of testing and then assure us that the data, consisting of untested people, is accurate.
Every model used for this pandemic has proved to be inaccurate at best, complete failures in most cases. Being consistent with those models makes you inaccurate at best, a complete failure.
That is now it works. Every estimate causes a change in policy which causes a change estimates. It also has to make assumptions about the virus for characteristics we still have insufficient data to determine…
And it can’t predict how steadfastly much of the population will act like obstinate morons and resist measures intended to slow the spread.
Or, the models were bullshit, intended to aggrandize their prpoponents and to leverage power grabs to save us “see? Fewer deaths!”
Fewer, because -bullshit- models were never going to happen.
We are healthy here, with a great healthcare system (where not fouled up by government meddling). Diseases fizzle here, reliably and predictably. SARS2.0 akCovid19 is no exception.
-Fizzled-!
Again!
The models were bullshit and you folks lied to exploit them. Now you are tap-dancing to avoid admitting it.
Again.
We understand that a model will change as available data increases and improves. The issue is that progessive-liberal folks like yourself take the first model, which is never going to be accurate, and preach it like Moses brought it down from the mountain. Anyone that doesn’t immediately follow along in lockstep “orange man bad” fashion is a “science denier” and has blood on their hands. Go look at the “empirical data” you worship. Your progressive enclaves are getting hit with the brunt of this pandemic. They’re the ones screaming for moar moar moar from Uncle Sam. You and your people created those shitholes, now go clean them up.
“Your progressive enclaves are getting hit with the brunt of this pandemic. They’re the ones screaming for moar moar moar from Uncle Sam. You and your people created those shitholes, now go clean them up.”
This! Times a billion, every second from now til the end of Mankind! (Which THEY’re hastening)
Damn the progs!
Damn them all to hell.
“Go look at the “empirical data” you worship.”
Speaking of empirical data, I think Fyrfighter supplied some.
” we still have insufficient data to determine…”
Yes! Too bad you still keep determining things with that insufficient data.
Ooooh! He said “mathematical model”, so he must be right.
I’m sure he got that term from the “Encyclopedia of Terms for Imbeciles Wanting to Sound like Intellectuals”.
Ooh, ooh, who knew our own commie cuttlefish is an epidemiologist.
And he knows a model.
What he doesn’t understand/refuses to see is that facts trump models every time.
Are y’all a-gonna make him whip his Empirical Evidence out yet again?
You could just google my numbers. Most of them came from your orange fuhrer’s daily shitshows.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… Spoken like the truly brainwashed dipshit you truly are, I see the signs of an Inferiority Complex in you with plenty of Projection.
“You could just google my numbers. Most of them came from your orange fuhrer’s daily shitshows.”
Stunning. You get your numbers from “Orange Man Bad’s” shitshow but you consider them credible.
Schizophrenia or cognitive dissonance? You might want to rule out a physical cause. Oh, right, no “nonessential” medical care.
So far you all have no facts.
Yeah, those weekly briefings from the state OEM don’t yield shit for facts… PLEASE pull your head out of your ass
And as I said, YOU, Lars, have no backup for anything you say. YOu just throw it out into the mix and expect people to accept it. Doesn’t work that way, numbskull.
What is your point Ex? What is your agenda? You clearly feel passionately about this?
Is this a hoax?
You want everyone to just act like things are normal?
What are you hoping will happen?
Probably hoping you finally extract your head from you ass, Komrade Kazoo.
Lars, why do you keep asking if the Chinese flu is a hoax?
Is that what you want to hear?
I know it is not.
But the narrative on this forum seems to be that this is not real or entirely overblown.
“But the narrative on this forum seems to be that this is not real or entirely overblown.”
And now delusions!
Is this disease a hoax? What kimd of asinine question is that???? Are you REALLY that moronic, that you have to let everyone know how utterly dumb you are?
I see the numbers every morning on the news, local and national numbers, you imbecile. The death rate is less – FAR LESS – than the death rate from 1918, BY A HELLUVA LOT.
The only hoax on the planet is YOU, Lars. And don’t think for one second that you know more than anyone else, BECAUSE YOU DON’T, and you prove it every time you post a comment.
I know it is not a hoax.
I am trying to understand what the fuck you all are constantly whining about.
The virus is real. Fucking cope.
Yes, the 2019 Wuhan coronavirus (“***k you very much, PRC”) is real. But it’s hardly the “end of the world” viral pandemic event you’ve been hyperventilating about since, well, the Zika virus outbreak several years ago.
Is it going to be a bumpy ride? Yes. Are some folks going to lose loved ones? Yes (my condolences, Fyrfighter). But unlike a few other possibilities, it’s NOT something that will be a society killer.
We’ve weathered far worse in the last approximately 105 years. We’ll get through this one – unless we collectively commit economic suicide through overreaction.
Hmmmm. You seem upset–vhy iz dat? Are you zis upset often? Perhaps a nice cup of tea…
Oh, Fyrfighter! Do you haff vun of dose nice vight coats in your truck? Somting mit ze extra long sleeves, eh?
Don’t try to backtrack and get out of what you said, dorkwit. YOU SAID “Is this a hoax?” Those are YOUR words, and you can’t back out of it.
Don’t even try to throw this onto anyone here, EVER.
The only hoax here is YOU.
” What is your agenda?….What are you hoping will happen? ”
Hmmmm. Again with the agenda business. I think I see a bit of paranoia creeping into the mix. That medical evaluation may be essential after all; public safety and all.
None that agree with your line of bullshit, you bloviating dipshit.
None here.
But this place does not reflect anything remotely close to a forum of reasonable people.
It all just whatever right wing talking point is coming out of the echo chamber on any given day.
There is nothing coherent about any of the shit you all seem to believe.
Then why are you here? You come in, spew a bunch of barely comprehensible CNN and DNC (I repeat myself) talking points about how Orange Man Bad, and then leave.
You’ve been asked to leave, including by the founder of this site, and yet remain.
The founder of the site dropped the banhammer on him… he only came back after Jonn’s death.
I remember seeing Jonn post something about that, Lars finally pissed Jonn off to where he swung the banhammer!
Commissar…
As for “echo chambers”, we all know your go-to source for information and guidance is
Xinhua News Agency or New China News Agency AKA the official state-run press agency of the People’s Republic of Chin
Commissar…
As for “echo chambers”, we all know your go-to source for information and guidance is
Xinhua News Agency or New China News Agency AKA the official state-run press agency of the People’s Republic of China.
“But this place does not reflect anything remotely close to a forum of reasonable people.”
Hmmmm. Very interesting. Zo, you tink perhaps zey are all against you?
“There is nothing coherent about any of the shit you all seem to believe.”
“It all just whatever right wing talking point is coming out of the echo chamber on any given day.”
(writes in notepad–“projection?”)
Zo, you tink dey are all incoherent? Tell me about zis, eh, “echo chamber” as you call it? Do you hear ze echos?
Yet your “facts” come from what you yourself called “your orange fuhrer’s daily shitshows.”
I’m sure the irony escapes you.
Well, I understand that the current POTUS has known several models during his lifetime – some quite well, reportedly. (smile)
Well enough to produce children…
I knew a model once.
*sigh* My nephew.
“And we cant fix the economy until we deal with this virus.”
Nonsense. First, we don’t need to “fix” the economy; just get out of the way and it will grow by itself. That is what economies do and have been doing since time immemorial.
Second, the human race has lived with worse diseases than this while carrying on a relatively normal existence.
Did any of you see HRM Queen Elizabeth II’s speech yet?
Gracious and classy. Thanks.
Jeez. Can I vote for her? Maybe we should rethink this whole monarchy thing.
Coupla more things for all those idiots out there intent upon destroying the American dream for the rest of us.
I need some elective surgery. No, it isn’t really elective but it can be put off for a bit. But, if this doesn’t clear up pretty soon, what should be a simple procedure could easily develop into something very serious requiring immediate, painful emergency surgery with a long recovery. And lots of unnecessary complications. Your alarmist attitudes and the volumes of silly requirements is literally putting my life in danger. I could have a very simple procedure as an outpatient at a private hospital but instead must risk needing a visit to an ER and an extended stay in another hospital. Who wants to risk being in a hospital right now, or any time in the near future?
And. With you nuts intent upon destroying the supply chains of food, you are putting all of us, including yourselves, in grave danger. I can tell you that if it gets to the point that folks come looking to eat my critters, I WILL come looking for all y’all that are putting us normal, sane Americans at risk over this mess you got us into. At some point, the dogs will run out of food, and they will likely volunteer to help me find you.
OK. All better now.
Almost.
Rant on, OWB! Ran on!!
This nation needs elective–no, make that “electoral” surgery before November, to remove all the gangrenous rot the Democrats keep injecting into the electoral process.
Who are you blaming and for what again?
If you don’t understand the words, I suggest that you look them up. In a dictionary. Surely you have seen one somewhere.
You can’t answer.
Because you are just mindlessly regurgitating bullshit you are hearing in the echo cha,bee.
You elect to ignore the obvious, but that is your choice. You have that right. What you do not have is the right to demand that any of us fall in lock step with you or appreciate you, your ideas, your ideals, or anything else about you. That is something you earn. You have not earned an ounce of respect from any of us.
You may not like the answer, but you got one. Your childish response simply confirms the correctness of my decision to usually not waste time reading your posted comments.
‘Ol Lars could really use some help and counseling IMHO given the signals and projection he emanates here on TAH. As I see it, he is obviously very lacking in perceived accomplishment, relationships and intellect just from his projections alone! It looks to me like he comes here with his rants thinking that he will suddenly turn us all to see things his way OR he shows it to his UC Berzerkely Profs thinking it will gain him favor with them, either way he does anything he can to seek and gain the attention that he craves.
“Because you are just mindlessly regurgitating bullshit”
I just ran out of jokes. This guy is nuts.
And you, you incredible moron, didn’t even READ or COMPREHEND what OWB said. Geezo Pete, you just keep proving your lack of understanding plain English and your burden of sheer stupidity, Taylor, never mind your lack of common decency.
IMHO Lars doesn’t ever even think, he merely projects his own inner insecurity and low self esteem on others, what say you, Ex-PH2?
Agreed, and it’s mostly to annoy people.
He’s an attention whore, nothing more.
I personally think he has issues going back to his childhood that he projects here.
The “experts” who have caused hospitals to be empty and medical staff to be laid off while “nonessential” patients sit confined to their homes…waiting.
Ditto. I haven’t been able to move my hand/wrist for about 3 months now. Can’t make a fist, can’t lift anything, have no grip strength in the hand. All I have been able to do was go to UC in mid-February, which was useless.
No orthopedist will see me, and the earliest anyone is even speculating to make appointments is May, with a 6-8 week delay after that, and another 6-8 weeks for any diagnostic tests that may be needed. Physical therapy is looking like June, at least.
IOW, it may be AUGUST before I even know what’s wrong, to say nothing of getting it fixed. In the meantime, all I can do is chomp down 4-6 Aleve per day until my fucking liver fails.
Do you have a wrist brace? You can find them in many pharmacies. I have some recurring wrist issues, and bracing it while I sleep or type does wonders for when i am not doing those things. Also reminds me “stop making it worse”.
Ice it. Those “4 degree” cooler bocks seem to work. The “ice” packs that ship with refrigerated medicines also work well, wrapped in a thin towel. Good old baggie of ice and a towel also works.
If getting the swelling down helps, you may need less of the pills. Makes a -huge- difference for me.
Hope that helps.
The backlog is going to be immense. I was at my dentist’s last week after breaking a filling. The receptionist the whole time I was there was calling people to cancel routine appointments. I asked what the plan is for when this is over?
I guarantee a large part of their business is the semi-annual cleaning. It’s consistent income and the insurance companies don’t dispute every nickle and dime. Skipping a check isn’t something the dentist is going to want to do.
Receptionist told me they’re planning on working a lot of extra hours once things open up. I’m sure other industries are going to be the same. Once we “open” it’ll be like opening a fire hydrant.
As I see it, it’ll be more like the opening of the floodgates on a Dam.
“The backlog is going to be immense.”
No worries, mate. I am sure the “experts” (top men, all of them) have a plan for that.
And a scapegoat, too. (Hint; it’s orange)
While I wouldn’t characterize anyone as ‘intent upon destroying the American dream’, I can absolutely relate to the frustration with putting all important things, even in the absence of an influx of cases, on hold. I’ve got a family member in need of radiation for cancer, and the doctors have deemed it non-essential for now. On the one hand, I get their point – it’s not spread yet, and coronavirus is hitting their home state pretty hard. But at the same time, radiation techs aren’t doing coronavirus medicine, and the machines are sitting idle. And the longer we wait, the greater the chance the cancer spreads, and survivability drops.
That’s fucked up, and there’s no other way to put it. There has got to be a better way of dealing with this. But, when I take a breath and try to relax, I still come to the conclusion that while there’s got to be a better way… this doesn’t mean anyone is out to harm my family, or destroy America, or whatever other anger-fueled feeling I might have. It’s that the people making decisions, be they either lacking competence or so overwhelmed by the other stuff, can’t seem to tackle more than one thing at once. There’s something to be learned from that moving forward, but it’s not malicious behavior.
Rather than play the blame game, which just leaves people picking political sides, I’d rather we all try to look for solutions we can agree on. I think we can all agree that curtailing important medical procedures when facilities and specialized staff are idle is pretty dumb. Hope you get your surgery soon, my family member gets their radiation, and these sorts of common ground agreements pave the way for better decisions in the future.
And I fully agree on the dogs, too. Fuck that.
Two things at play here that concern me. First is that old saw, “To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” To some of these lifelong bureaucrats in lab coats, they are finally getting their 15 minutes of fame and they like it. Even the camera shy ones and the ones aware that they are hammers still see everything as a nail. And we are all paying attention to their hammering.
Second is that in no situation does one size fit all. Never, ever. Why would anyone expect otherwise here? What it takes to keep you safe and healthy is more than likely quite different from what it takes to keep me safe and healthy – for a wide variety of valid reasons.
Seeing both of these play out is more than frustrating. It’s rather like my own knowledge of myself and my needs is being disregarded completely as others decide what is best for me. Others who simply cannot know what is best for me, and apparently don’t really care much.
Oh, well. We will survive this. We made it through polio and a bunch of other things since then.
Thanks for that. Unfortunately, I suspect there are thousands more in the same boat. But I guess the “experts” missed that small point.
I hear ya OWB, I need an angiogram on one of my legs due to bad blood flow. Been re-scheduled 2 times already.
I’m 69, with heart disease, had a quad bypass, am over weight and should be scared shitless of this Kungflu nonsense. Fuck it!
This is about the 5th end of the world crisis that I have lived through.
I think the best part of this crisis is watching President Trump dismantle so many of the norms brought to us over the past fifty years of exponential liberal bureaucracy growth as a general response to an emergency get trashed and replaced with something that actually works… Federalism, the original vision of the great men that wrote the formula that became the most innovative and powerful nation on Earth by relying, not on government but the power of the individual. The CDC, the FDA, WHO and damn near every other government bureaucracy has demonstrated notheing but the same contempt for individual thinking that our resident moron espouses at every turn. So expect to see this trend continue and if you can at least read the takeaway on the article by Christopher Demuth for the Wall Street Journal featured on Instapundit with a link to a paywall, unfortunately. The gist of the article remains that premise that we see played out everyday in the Chicom Virus briefings at the White House. And that just galls all of these left wing media and resident chiump (yes, chiump) clowns to no end !!! Here is but an excerpt from Glenn Reynolds Instapundit page. Read it and weep larsie-boi…. “The most striking aspect of the administration’s response has been its waiving or liberalizing of hundreds of regulatory requirements that would otherwise impede efforts to cope with the epidemic and ensuing shutdowns. The Food and Drug Administration has relaxed its extreme restrictions on the development and deployment of medical tests, equipment, drugs and vaccines. The Medicare and Hipaa waivers, along with the suspension by many states of their restrictions on out-of-state medical professionals, are allowing doctors and nurses to go where they are needed and to practice telemedicine. The Education Department is easing its micromanagement of school districts to facilitate online teaching and other initiatives. Teachers I know are enthusiastic about the cancellation of this year’s federal testing requirements—now they can actually teach their students instead of merely preparing them for tests.” Most of these requirements — possibly all — should be permanently abolished. So… Read more »
That’s quite an interesting read there sir. If I wasn’t so cheap, I’d go over to the Wall Street Journal and read the whole thing. Because I’m not paying just to read one article.
Trump is the ultimate troll. On the 13th he declared in a pair of posts, the decision to re-open rests with the President of the United States and the federal government, not the state governors.
Dems and the Lame Stream Media went insane.
Today, Trump in a classic bait-and-switch, announced guidelines for states to start opening their economies that have been largely shut down by the coronavirus pandemic.
The “Opening up America Again” plan, which includes three phases, will give governors the authority to make decisions about how their states proceed in the coming weeks and months.
Dems and the Lame Stream Media went insane.
Gotta love it.
*grin*
It looks like he’s decentralizing the power of shutting things down and decentralizing power drives liberals triple batshit crazy!
Trump is not dismantling anything. Nearly 60% of the population see him for the incompetent con artist he is.
Even among his base a significant percentage know he is a lying shitbag. They just like that he is on “their” side.
He took an opportunity to shine as a leader and squandered it with his fuckwit handling of this virus.
That sounds very much like the Obama administration. An empty suit propped up by con-artists reading a prepared script.
Too bad uncle Joe is the only option the Dems have put forth…if what you say is true it seems like an easy win for the Dems and yet they seem committed to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory yet again.
“The is none so blind as he who will not see.”
Your twisting of the meaning behind polls shows the echo chamber you reside in, an echo chamber you so often accuse others of living in. You come here spouting as facts information you get from the “daily shitshows” of someone you call “your orange fuhrer” (BTW, that’s spelled Fuehrer when the umlaut is not available). And you expect to be taken seriously? It appears the irony of this flies right over your pointy head on a regular basis.
Would that be when he banned travel from China (much to the consternation of the left)? Or when he had the hospital ships Comfort and Mercy deploy to hot-spots (even when that ugly dude Racheal Madcow said it wouldn’t happen)? or is there some other part of his handling you take issue with?
Here you go projecting again Lars, this time you’re projecting the previous Administration onto what we have now, see you next rant!
“opportunity to shine as a leader” must mean massively expand the government, rush sweeping changes through Congress, and make the executive branch just a tad more tyrannical.
For all the bluster your side complains about how they think Trump wants to be a tyrant or king, he’s proved with this beyond any doubt that he does not. He’s put the bulk of this on the states, which is how our government is designed.
If anything, this crisis has shown his base that once again, Trump is right. The media jumps his shit for everything and he proves them wrong over and over and over again.
Most of the people that held their nose to vote for him (me included) can’t wait to vote for a second term.
Sometimes shining as a leader means you hold your junior leaders feet to the fire in order to make them perform their own leadership role. As in the President pressuring governors to lead their states in the way our government intended.
Sorta surprised no one mentioned: April 19th, guys – the Shot Heard Round the World. Not a world, or a country, the Founding Fathers would recognize as descended from their work.
Ah but they would smile at the survival of the
original Bill of Rights albeit a bit beat up
and constantly watchful for tyranny. Like now.
Carry a copy of the Pocket Constitution with
you and perhaps a few copies to give out.
I bought thousands of them when Obama was
annoited and still have a few hundred left.
Always keep one on the dashboard in the car.
When they stop and ask for your papers…..
Just hand them a copy.
“When they stop and ask for your papers…..
Just hand them a copy.”
Aw, jeez, you ain’t one of those “travelers” are you?
Thanks for the reminder, David.
Posting again, because this just destroys the shitshow of phoney model-induced overreaction.
Busted they are. Lying they are. Never will they admit.
https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/essays-and-commentaries/overall-u-s-death-rate-is-at-a-multi-year-low/
Interesting… probably because one of the greatest killers of US citizens, the automobile, is not being used much these days… 🙂
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/19/nation/stark-reality-sundays-boston-globe-runs-16-pages-death-notices/
Regardless of the impact of this novel CCP virus, the number one preventable cause of death over the last century is democide directed by Socialists.
Don’t repeat history boy.
How is that relevant?
And not socialists; communist regimes.
Not the same fucking thing.
Socialist is communist is fascist is progressivist is collectivist is
Well, everyone else understands those are all “on the spectrum”, varying somewhat in execution methods. The willfully ignorant and the willfully malicious try to hide that bit of knowledge.
Um, risk mitigation…?
If we stay on this path there is one conclusion; state control and all of its gifts.
“Union of Soviet Socialist Republics”.
USSR.
Not communist?
Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP)
English translation: National Socialist German Workers’ Party, also known as the Nazi Party
SOCIALISTS
But it wasn’t TRUE socialism!
This time they’ll get it right.
When it fails, it wasn’t true socialism.
You don’t understand, it’s a progress that must break many eggs. Do you want to be one of those eggs, Comrade?
You are right to a degree. According to Marx, Socialism is the precursor to Communism. So it is in the same spectrum.
Right. Communism is “scientific” Socialism.
As opposed to a normal Sunday, dipshit?
Yes, as opposed to a normal Sunday. Dipshit.
Lars, YOU DO KNOW that the Boston Globe is as much of a DNC propaganda apparatus as the Washington [Com]Post and the NY Times, don’t you? But I also assume that what they produce is what you accept as “Empirical Evidence”, take those blinders off and come out in the sunlight once in a while, wontcha?
Boston Globe death notices? You’re celebrating I see.
For what it’s worth: the current Johns Hopkins University’s 2019 Wuhan Coronavirus map site (they persist in using the PRC-was-the-source-obscuring term “COVID-19” for the virus) indeed shows the US curve for confirmed cases flattening on a logarithmic scale plot. A quick look at the log-scale charts appears to postulate somewhere around a million total cases – I’d say a bit under that, but that’s an eyeball projection based on visually examining the data to date and projecting future data based on same vice any mathematical curve-fitting model. Further: the flattening of the log-scale curve for total cases has been quite apparent for at least the past 2 weeks – if not the 3 weeks to a month. Daily new cases have also remained stable for the same period. That’s further data indicating that the rate of infection has stabilized. Finally, yesterday marked the first day with a reported decrease in US deaths from the 2019 Wuhan coronavirus. And that’s in spite of the suspected (and in some cases, admitted) deliberate inflation of the mortality data attributed to the virus in many locations. If that continues – or even simply stabilizes – that’s very good news. Assuming a 5% mortality rate, at total of 1M cases gives us somewhere around 50k US deaths from the PRC’s latest “gift to the world”. Bad? Yes. But hardly catastrophic. It’s too early to tell for sure, of course, if the current trends John Hopkins is showing in their consolidated US data will hold. But if they indeed hold true, then we’re looking at what’s equivalent to a roughly normal flu season in terms of total dead (CDC predicts about that many deaths attributable to the 2019-2020 seasonal flu). So, c’mon tàidíquǎn (AKA 泰迪犬 AKA Poodle AKA Commissar. Tell us again how the data Johns Hopkins University is reporting is wrong and you are right. —– For those interested: to access the US data and curves, go here: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html In the left-hand column, click on the entry for the US. This will switch the displayed data for deaths and charts to US data. Then select… Read more »
For what it’s worth: the current Johns Hopkins University’s 2019 Wuhan Coronavirus map site (they persist in using the PRC-was-the-source-obscuring term “COVID-19” for the virus) indeed shows the US curve for confirmed cases flattening on a logarithmic scale plot. A quick look at the log-scale charts appears to postulate somewhere around a million total cases – I’d say a bit under that, but that’s an eyeball projection based on visually examining the data to date and projecting future data based on same vice any mathematical curve-fitting model. Further: the flattening of the log-scale curve for total cases has been quite apparent for at least the past 2 weeks – if not the last 3 weeks to a month. Daily new cases have also remained stable for the same period (the last 2 weeks). That’s further data indicating that the rate of infection has stabilized. Finally, yesterday marked the first day with a reported decrease in US deaths from the 2019 Wuhan coronavirus. And that’s in spite of the suspected (and in some cases, admitted) deliberate inflation of the mortality data attributed to the virus in many locations. If that continues – or even simply stabilizes – that’s very good news. Assuming a 5% mortality rate, at total of 1M cases gives us somewhere around 50k US deaths from the PRC’s latest “gift to the world”. Bad? Yes. But hardly catastrophic. It’s too early to tell for sure, of course, if the current trends John Hopkins is showing in their consolidated US data will hold. But if those trends indeed hold true, then we’re looking at what’s equivalent to a roughly normal flu season in terms of total dead. (For comparison, CDC predicts about that many deaths attributable to the 2019-2020 seasonal flu.) So, c’mon tàidíquǎn (AKA 泰迪犬 AKA Poodle AKA Commissar). Tell us again how the data Johns Hopkins University is reporting is wrong and you are right. —– For those interested: to access the US data and curves, go here: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html In the left-hand column, click on the entry for the US. This will switch the displayed data for… Read more »
“I smoked pot with Johnny Hopkins”,”him and Sloan Kettering were blazing that sh-t up”
https://youtu.be/bGH2d1jBJu8
Happy 4/20 for those who partake in the Devil’s Lettuce.
” but that’s an eyeball projection based on visually examining the data to date”
Probably at least as good as the “experts”.
These numbers seem legit.
Hat tip to Skippy
Those numbers look perfectly reasonable.
I’ve always appreciated honest reporting.
Nothing to see here.
Let’s move on.
It is the Chinese that are lying about their numbers.
Thanks for the tip. I knew something was
wrong with that chart but just couldn’t
figure it out.
Master of the obvious, isn’t he? The sarcasm flew right over his pointy head.
I laughed so hard I think I peed myself. Thanks 26L.
Imagine that. Who would have guessed.
Yeah, well, it is not always clear this forum can determine that.
Just a few days ago the forum was claiming New York’s numbers were lied.
They are being deliberately inflated, 泰迪犬 (tàidíquǎn). See the URL in SFC D’s comment below.
Spare me the “but they’re not inflated” BS. When you’re reporting “projections” (AKA wild-ass guesses) about how many have died from the 2019 Wuhan coronavirus vice reporting demonstrated and known fact – and also have an economic incentive to report higher numbers vice lower ones – it doesn’t take much beyond a bit of common sense to figure out what’s going on.
And NYC’s hardly the only place where that’s happening.
I’m still claiming that. It’s not just NY. There’s a huge difference between dying OF Covid-19 and dying WITH Covid-19.
Dying during the pandemic or near
someone who died is also counted.
Know someone who died recently?
Yep, Corona.
You think? When did you come to that conclusion? Hell, even their citizens know that they are lying about it.
Here’s an interesting little tidbit. Not exactly news to those who have been paying attention. And it’s packed with empirical data!
https://pjmedia.com/trending/heres-how-much-downstate-new-york-is-skewing-the-united-states-coronavirus-numbers/
This guy is full of shit and I suspect he knows it. His entire blog appears to be partisan propaganda.
Population density effects the spread. And areas even a few weeks ahead of others as far as the beginning of the spread will have several times the infection rate. Especially if the spread was happening for 3-5 weeks before it was even recognized like it appears to be the case.
When I translate what you just said, we get “This did not come from an approved source, and therefore must be bullshit”.
And yes, population density does affect the spread. And logically, as we have seen, densely populated areas have more cases than sparsely populated areas. The greater numbers of cases in those areas greatly skew the total numbers for the entire nation. It’s not propaganda. It’s very simple math.
AS USUAL, NOBODY is correct about anything as Lars is, or so he thinks. The more I see of his rants the more I think it’s him projecting his own Inferiority Complex on everyone else.
Ok,
Thread I was on above had a response from VoV and LC that I wanted to respond to, but it’s full, so here goes.
VoV. Never thought you were being argumentative, and I did assume that you were using national numbers, just trying to add in the info that I’ve been getting. You always have good info, an the discussion makes us all better, IMHO
LC, you are correct, based on the current confirmed cases, and reported deaths, Colorado is at about a 4% mortality. Due to lack of sleep and caffeine, I misstated my point. The “less that 1%” I stated was based on a comment from one of the state epidemiologists, taking into account the 81% asymptomatic / minimal symptom cases that are highly likely to exist, but not be tested. In general, only symptomatic individuals are being tested in our state (along with some high risk categories, and it is expanding), but current numbers are based on primarily those showing symptoms.
Mia Culpa on my mis-statements
Just an update on numbers here in Colorado, These are available on the state website, as the slides were used in the Governors press conference two days ago. The current number of confirmed cases in the state stands at about 11,000, the predicted number is 65,000-75,000 (that’s the assumption of how many have already had the disease, not how many will get it. Again, this is from the Democrat Governor, not me). Given that we’ve had 492 deaths in the state, that gives a mortality rate of 0.66% on the high end, and 0.57% on the low end.
Dhais aihnt heeh! Dhont trhust meh! Eye ahm ahs hoe!
So in SoCal they’re doing massive testing of the population at large. Turns out a significantly large number are showing up as having had it, but were asymptomatic. Not only does that raise the infected raise, but it’ll massively lower the death rate. Which is what I said here weeks ago.
To say a virus is X% deadly, you have to have a reasonable belief that you know how many are infected. We know how many deaths there have been, that’s well tabulated. We don’t know how many had it. At best, right now we know how many had it and were severely symptomatic. I know a few people that had COVID-like symptoms and were refused tests in weeks past.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/20/l-a-county-study-coronavirus-outbreak-up-to-55-times-more-widespread-less-deadly-than-predicted/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29