More About that Odessa Shooting
Well, it appears that LE now knows where the Odessa mass shooter got his weapon, and how. They’ve also released the reason why the Odessa mass-murderer was unable to pass a background check. (Please note that this second linked article erroneously claims that the Odessa mass-murderer used a “loophole” to obtain his weapon. This is incorrect; no so-called “loophole” was used. The sale of the firearm he used was, to put it plainly, not a routine sale between private individuals; it was a criminal act. See below.)
I don’t think our pro-gun-control “brethren” are going to be pleased.
It turns out that the Odessa mass-murderer was unable to purchase a weapon legally because he had significant mental issues. He thus could not pass a routine pre-purchase background check when he’d previously tried to purchase a firearm several years ago. Up to this point, the “system” worked exactly as intended.
So, how did he get his weapon if he couldn’t pass a background check to buy it legally? Glad you asked.
Short answer: the sale was prohibited by Federal law, and was thus illegal. More info follows.
Turns out there apparently was a another guy – reportedly from Lubbock – who “hooked him up”. But this wasn’t exactly a routine sale of a firearm between private individuals.
It appears that this other fellow allegedly bought parts, assembled those parts into a working firearm – and sold the firearm he’d manufactured to the Odessa mass-murderer. This practice (assembly of a firearm from parts and subsequent sale by a non-FFL dealer) is not legal under current law.
My guess is that the Odessa shooter heard about the other guy, possibly from a prior customer; contacted him; traveled to Lubbock; made his illegal purchase; and then returned to Odessa. Google maps says the trip would be just over 2 hours each way.
Sidebar: it’s at least theoretically possible that the individual who assembled the firearm used by the Odessa mass-murderer had a FFL. In that case, the sale was still illegal, but for one of two different reasons. In that scenario obviously either (1) no background check was performed prior to the sale; or (2) the seller performed a background check, then intentionally and knowingly sold the firearm he’d assembled to a prohibited person. My money’s on no FFL, though. And ether way, IMO the guy from Lubbock “got some ‘splainin to do” – and may well have some time to do also.
In other words, what we almost certainly have here is simply an illegal “back alley” firearms sale. The only unusual feature is that the firearm in question was assembled from parts rather than stolen.
Now ask yourself: Do you really think a universal background check law would have done any good in this case? Would someone who was already breaking the law by assembling one or more firearms from parts, then unlawfully selling them without a FFL (or if they in fact possessed a FFL, who were otherwise ignoring Federal law by either (1) failing to perform background checks, or (2) ignoring the results of same and knowingly selling firearms to prohibited persons) give a flying flip about a law also requiring them to execute a background check for each of their illegal sales?
The Odessa mass-murderer has already received suitable justice. Hopefully his (presumably) unwitting accomplice – e.g., the guy who unlawfully sold him the weapon he used – also receives appropriate justice.
—–
Author’s Note: Hat tip to longtime frequent TAH commenter rgr769 for mentioning this fact in comments elsewhere, thus spurring me to write the above article.
Category: Gun Grabbing Fascists, Guns
Hang’em high.
“Hopefully his (presumably) unwitting accomplice – e.g., the guy who unlawfully sold him the weapon he used – also receives appropriate justice”
If he does we will not read about it in the news.
If the seller is a registered Republican, you certainly will hear about him, all over the news.
Despite all this being illegal, this won’t slow the Democrat gun-grabbers down one iota. If anything, it’ll make them push harder to make assembling your own firearm illegal. Which will get broad support from an uneducated population that can be talked into the “common sense” of “nobody needs to make their own guns.” That’ll be combined with a gun industry that’ll be all too happy to also lobby for it, because then people won’t be able to buy cheaper parts, they’ll be compelled to buy the whole.
The only common sense gun control is using both hands and proper squeeze technique.
How dare you try to interject facts into the mantra of the howler gunz grabbing monkeys? This is not acceptable. If the parts to the scary black rifle had not been available, the legalasticaly challenged individual would not have been lead into temptation by the assembler of said scary black rifle to purchase same and then forced by the aforesaid assembled scary black rifle to go on a rampage resulting in his untimely demise. #someassemblyrequired /s/
“This practice (assembly of a firearm frOm parts and subsequent sale by a non-FFL dealer)”: Might want to check this part again, this applies if the gun is still not serial numbered. I believe if the seller a) stamps the appropriate part with a serial number and b) is not engaged in a practice of manufacturing, meaning only does this occasionally rather than on an ongoing constant basis c) records and keeps records of the serial number, the sale is legal. I could be wrong, but seems to me I read this when I looked into the whole 80% receiver thing. Otherwise any ‘home-made’ gun would never be able to be disposed of other than through destruction.
You might want to check with a lawyer before actually doing what you suggest. 18 USC 923(a) seems fairly cut and dried on that point.
You’re almost certainly OK up to the point of sale. Prior to that point, it’s assembly for personal use (nonbusiness) – which is permitted under current Federal law. However, when the sale occurs my take is that you’ve just become “engaged(d) in the business” of manufacturing and selling a firearm. Further, the 3rd link I provided – to an article that appears to have been written by a practicing attorney – seems to agree, saying the same fairly explicitly.
Hey, it’s your criminal record; do what you want. You want to stake your freedom and voting/firearms rights on hiring a lawyer to convince some prosecutor or jury that “it was only a private sale” when Federal law seemingly classifies it otherwise, be my guest. But I think I’ll choose to listen to a lawyer when he tells me in writing, “That’s not legal”.
One can make or build a firearm for personal use (as is the case with 80% receivers) and later legally sell it. The crime is when the firearm is made or built with the specific intent to sell it. That appears to be the case here.
See Hondo’s comment, above.
Kinda hard to argue “no intent to sell” if you sell it.
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/can-i-sell-or-give-my-homemade-gun-another-person.htm
from the same site Hondo cited. ArmyATC and I seem to be supported. Does not mean that this transaction was legal, but does support that under limited circumstances you can make your own gun and at some time sell it without legal penalties.
ATF will err on the side of hemming folk up.
Not necessarily correct. The legal definition of engaged in the business is just that. I intentionally buy guns and I sell guns. I have a place of business for that purpose. That was my plan before I started doing it, not like I look at the collection and decide on the spur of the moment that I need to cull it down some, so I will sell one or two, or one of my buddies offers to take one off my hands. I have to get a license, unless I only sell them to my local gun dealer. I can legally buy a lower AR receiver, which is serial numbered, and I must fill out a 4473 form on, then put the rest of the weapon together. Hundreds of people do that every day. No license required. If I build a gun off a receiver I legally bought, I can sell it to anyone later that I want to. Varying among the states is any requirement for me to be sure whomever I sell to is not a criminal. I cannot as an individual do a NICX check, as I don’t have the means to do it. If this guy knew the shooter was a felon, he is busted as all get out though.
As for an 80 percent receiver, if I build and serial number it in accordance with ATF requirements, I am free to later sell it should I want to.
As a kid I made a firearm from a piece of
theaded 3/4 inch pipe, threaded end cap,
empty CO2 cartridge and box of Ohio Blue
Tip matches.
Fired CO2 cartridges filled with match heads.
But I didn’t sell it.
That would be stupid.
The cops took it away.
I’d be very leery of doing even that unless I could document that I sold the item literally for the cost of parts. And even then, I might investigate seeing if I could find a FFL dealer to facilitate the sale instead of doing a direct sale – especially after this latest incident.
Why? If you were to sell the item and make any profit whatsoever, an overzealous prosecutor could claim you were “engaging in the business of manufacturing and dealing in firearms” – and were thus in violation of 18 USC 923. He/she could then make your life hell for a while, even if your lawyer eventually managed to convince said prosecutor (or a judge) to drop the charges or jury to see things your way.
Selling it at cost might be a viable defense if it were a one-time event (not a lawyer, so I don’t know one way or another). Going through a FFL dealer, assuming you could find one who’d facilitate the sale, would eliminate the problem entirely.
Sales of assembled firearms are going to get LOTS of attention now. This is one area where extreme caution might be a damn good idea.
LONG BORING POST
“The term “engaged in the business” means— (A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.”
so occasional hobby activity is not prohibited… the above is from ATF:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-individual-now-manufacture-these-firearms-and-sell-them
Per the defenselawyer site both Hondo and I cited (his page in the article, mine in my prior post), a home-made gun is not required to be serial numbered, although ATF suggests that for identification (i.e. in event of theft) a number is a good thing. However, if the gun is transferred through a dealer (not an unwise precaution) the gun is supposed to have a number – expect issues getting a 4473 approved without a number. Prior to GCA’68 not all rifles were required to be serial numbered, so legal non-serialized weapons do exist.
Intrastate transfers without a background check are legal if compliance with state law.
It sounds like the idiot in question found someone who would make and sell him an off-the-books gun… I suspect that if the supplier is not squeaky clean in every respect, even his jaywalking tickets will be gone through for possible prosecution.
Doesn’t matter with the demorat gun grabbers about old laws, new laws, inlaws, outlaws. The bottom line is that they want a total gun confiscation.
I’ve noticed the media blackout on this
In this area this would explain why
“Media blackout”
Source from NY post literally listed above.
Holy hell, could you guys possibly be any dumber?
Did someone ask for a blowjob?
Then why is your mouth open???
Much like the Dayton shooter, once the political proclivities and stances of the shooter were known (and unlike the racist rants of the El Paso shooter), media coverage of the event certainly declined in the immediate aftermath. Note how his social media profiles were scrubbed BEFORE his information was released.
Certainly reminiscent of the Soviet “memory hole”, isn’t it? If it doesn’t fit the narrative, ignore it.
White male shooter = maximum coverage.
Scary black rifle = maximum coverage.
The fact more people were killed in Chicago that same weekend = crickets.
You fucking get it now?
Doesn’t fit the leftist “narrative” for disarming law-abiding folk.
Holy shit, you consistently display a pattern of stupid fucking comments that point to either a lack of common sense, reading comprehension or a blend of both.
You could have a PhD (Piled higher and Deeper) Degree from UC Berzerkely and not be THAT stupid!
He’s a troll, guys. Take that into account.
I also suspect he’s another troll (not Commissar) that Jonn previously banned during his lifetime who’s now commenting under a new screen name.
Doesn’t the Constitution of the United States specifically say that Congress does NOT have the authority to pass laws that “infringe” on a citizen’s right to own a gun? So it seems that legal or illegal doesn’t really mean anything here – it’s just a matter of who has the biggest gun.
I commented about this a couple of days ago. As I said then, this is just another illegal black market sale of an illegal product, just like the many thousands of illegal black market sales of drugs that occur every day. So, progs who visit and comment here, what law would prevent these already illegal transactions? It is like saying we need new laws that are supposed to prevent murder or some other major felony, like selling heroin or black market fentanyl.
You did indeed mention this in comments elsewhere, rgr769, and it was the reason I wrote the article above. I originally forgot to mention that fact.
That omission
will be fixed very shortlyhas been corrected above.The 1st Amendment specifically says that whatever rights are not reserved to the federal government are reserved to the states.
Almost all states have specific gun laws. Some states have counties that are now declaring themselves sanctuaries for gun owners, but they also refer to state gun ownership laws at the same time.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
The only reasons politicians have or can use to jump up and down on the bodies of the dead is that it is election season and they’re looking for votes, pandering (as always) to the panicky and ignorant in the crowd, with the objective of grabbing votes. And the media slimeballs just egg them on. And then the ghoul parade – the wooden crosses, the interviews with bystanders, the squawking about needing more laws when we already have them in place – starts up and goes on, ad nauseum.
So what is so difficult to understand that this stuff is already covered and the bad guys don’t give a crap about anything but the hair up their backsides?
10th.
Ditto.
AWR Hawkins wrote a great article that uses CDC data to refute the dangerousness of firearms. Worth keeping the link handy for future arguments.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/06/18-daily-causes-death-americans/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29
With the exception of barracks life, there has been a loaded gun in my home since I was 18.
No wrongful deaths. Hmmm. Doesn’t fit the narrative. Memory Hole time.
Man, you make me feel better. I thought mine were the only defective guns around. They haven’t gone runnin’ off by themselves, firin’ themselves indiscriminately and massacrin’ innocent wimmens and childrins.
Josey Wales spit added for effect.
I only keep one loaded gun at my casa. It is in a locked case. The rest of my “arsenal” is locked in my gun safe. Anyone who travels in cars cross country without a firearm is a potential victim.
Are they coming for my crossbow and my shotguns?
Eventually
The progs don’t want you to have any means to resist the power of the totalitarian state of their fever dreams.
That wrist rocket you bought as a kid is next.
Don’t forget harsh language… hurtful, you know.
Sticks and knives.
Stones will always be plentiful and free.
It’s a biblical thing.
Well GEE MUDDA-FUCKIN’ WHIZ, a few bucket loads of already existing Laws were ALREADY violated in this so the gawdamnmudda-fuckin’ politi-snobs at the Great Whorehouse on the Potomac River want even more Laws passed restricting us Law-abiding taxpayers, further proof that liberalism is a Mental Illness.
It may be a mental illness in some cases, but in many others it is merely a fervent belief in a totalitarian design to force the citizens of this country to be the slaves of a one-party state not unlike the ones imagined by George Orwell and Aldous Huxley. Or more particularly, like those presently extant in China, North Korea, and Venezuela. As David Horowitz has said, “in every progressive there is a totalitarian trying to get out.”
Remember, Commies only beef with Nazis was envy over the cooler uniforms.
I don’t think Orwell meant “1984” to be a training manual for the left.
I read it in 1967.
It came true.