Former Marine Loses His Guns Over Statements

| August 31, 2019

A former Marine lost his guns over statements that he made.

OregonLive reports that Shane Kohfield stood outside the home of Portland’s mayor and using a loudspeaker, shouted the following:

“If antifa gets to the point where they start killing us, I’m going to kill them next,” Kohfield, 32, said. “I’d slaughter them and I have a detailed plan on how I would wipe out antifa.”

The FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task to took a series of extraordinary steps against Kohfield which included a temporary seizure of a cache of his firearms under Oregon’s new “red flag” law aimed at preventing gun violence.

Category: Politics

Comments (149)

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  1. Comm Center Rat says:

    A AR-15, a pistol, a rifle, and a shotgun constitute a “cache” of weapons?

  2. Ex-PH2 says:

    Well, he did all he could, didn’t he?

    He seems obsessed with something. Perhaps he would benefit from finding a new hobby. Gardening might be a good thing for him to do. It requires complete attention from the gardener. He could grow tomatoes in a small hothouse in the winter and share with his neighbors.

    • Roh-Dog says:

      Gardening helps, to a point.
      I have a rodent, most likely a chipmunk, destroying some of my plants.
      I may have to resort to ballistic pest remediations.
      Much angry.

  3. Hondo says:

    Fat, dumb, and making stupid public statements is no way to go through life, youngster.

    On a related note: anyone in favor of “red flag” laws, take note. Under Oregon’s “red flag” law, this guy not only was hit with a court order mandating he had to turn in his weapons to local LE for spouting idiocy in public – he was also involuntarily committed to a “VA Hospital” for 20 days, presumably for mental health evaluation. That’s also gonna follow him around for the rest of his life (Q: “Have you ever been involuntariy committed . . . . “).

    Kinda seems a steep price to pay for a stupid public statement with no actual malicious act accompanying same. But the voters of Oregon apparently are OK with trashing the First and Second Amendments because “someone might do something wrong”.

    (Edited for correctness; the prior version may included invalid assumptions.)

  4. NHSparky says:

    This is why we have freedom of speech–to rapidly identify the stupid ones.

  5. 5th/77th FA says:

    Freedom of speech also means having the knowledge of when to keep yo damn mouth shut. It’s one thing to have a “Never Mind the Dog, Beware of the Owner” sign on your house. It’s another thing to state loudly and publicly the violence you may bring down upon persons who may have justified said violence being brought. I wonder if he realizes that he will be watched for the rest of his life.

    Agree with Ex-PH2, the boy needs a hobby.

  6. Toxic Deplorable Racist B Woodman says:

    (sigh…..) What part of “gray man”, “don’t spook the horses” and “digital is forever” did you not understand?

  7. Perry Gaskill says:

    I’m confused. According to the Oregonian story, Kohfield’s weapons were seized by the FBI, a federal agency, using a new state “red flag” law passed by the Oregon legislature. All of this taking place with the presence of a sanctuary state law which means Multnomah County local police are banned from enforcing federal immigration law.

    Does this mean the jurisdictional door only swings one way, or are the rules applied just when people like Kohfield become annoying? Something seems off…

    • Hondo says:

      I think I’ve sorted that part out, Perry.

      Per the Oregonian article, while it’s called an FBI “Joint Terrorism Task Force” the JTTF in that area appears to include both local LE and FBI personnel. Further, also per the article this tool was already on the FBI’s “radar” for sending a letter to a Member of Congress threatening to kill memmbers of ANTIFA if Congress didn’t declare them a terrorist organization; provided justification for doing so; and detailing possible ways to do exactly that.

      My guess is that a lawyer working with the JTTF – knowing about Oregon’s new “red flag” law – took this info and the new public statements to a local state judge, who then ordered the fool disarmed and committed. I’d further guess that while FBI personnel were probably at the raid, it was almost certainly local LE members of the JTTF that actually served the papers, took the weapons, and ushered him off to his next “committment”.

      I could easily be wrong. But I believe the FBI and local LE are pretty careful when it comes to jurisdictional issues that could get a case thrown out.

      • Perry Gaskill says:

        Thanks. That makes a certain amount of sense, Hondo.

        Still, although there is apparently ample evidence that Kohfield’s cheeseburger isn’t part of a full combo, it seems like anytime federal law enforcement in Portlandia is involved in something, my own alarm bells tend to go off.

        Remember how a Portland federal prosecutor a couple of years ago made a 9th Circuit end run around an Oregon district judge’s sentencing decision during the Hammond case? And how that led to the Malheur standoff? I’m aware of the legal rationale used then, but it still seemed just a bit too only-in-Portland from the standpoint of appropriate justice. YMMV

        • Hondo says:

          Well, PG, in the Hammond case the retiring Federal trial judge ignored clear and unambiguous Federal law when sentencing the Hammonds. The Hammond case was his final case, and IMO he used it to give a big judicial finger to a mandatory sentence under Federal law with which he disagreed.

          The Federal prosecutor there that you appear to be castigating simply asked a Federal appeals court to order that Federal law be applied as written – not as unilaterally modified by the retiring trial judge. The appeals court did exactly that.

          That’s as it should be. Judges are bound by the law, just like everyone else. They don’t get to “make it up as they go”.

          • Perry Gaskill says:

            Hondo, I don’t dispute the strict legality of how things came about, and we had this discussion back when it happened. My own view remains that the anti-terrorism statute, with it’s five-year minimum, was not an appropriate charge. If memory serves, the feds had also played gotcha by using a plea agreement which did not allow the Hammonds to appeal, but then themselves exercised a discretionary appeal for a longer sentence. This resulted in the Hammonds being sentenced to additional time after they had already served an original sentence.

            Such has always struck me as somehow petty and vindictive.

      • Commissar says:

        That sounds spot on, Hondo.

  8. Ret_25X says:

    What a dumb fuck.

    Everyone knows the first rule of fight club.

  9. Club Manager, USA ret. says:

    This boy looks to be a quart low, not the brightest bulb in the pack, sharpest knife in the drawer, etc.

  10. Mason says:

    “If antifa gets to the point where they start killing us, I’m going to kill them next.”

    Not what I’d have said over a bullhorn, but OK. Not really a terroristic threat because he prefaced it with a hypothetical.

    “I’d slaughter them and I have a detailed plan on how I would wipe out antifa.”

    Alright, now you’ve boarded the bus to Crazytown, with a stop enroute at Stupidville.

    He deserves to have his guns taken away. Also deserves to have his bullhorn taken away.

  11. a “cache” of 4 firearms taken away. Didn’t know that the local fbi and leo’s were also weapons “ESPLAINERS”
    Looks like Dorian is turning a little to the right and I’m on the southeast side of the storm which is the good side. Most likely some wind and rain.

  12. Commissar says:

    All this Antifa hysteria is driving right wingers nuts.

    This fever dream fear is based entirely on a bullshit right wing narrative.

    Antifa has never killed anyone.

    Right wing extremists in the US killed at least 50 people last year and seem to be wracking up a similar body count this year.

    And unlike the right wing groups Antifa is not arming themselves, loading into busses, and then traveling to the center of conservatives cities to intimidate, instigate, and disrupt.

    I watched these right wing groups show up in Berkeley and they pile out equipped with shields, helmets, and bats/bludgeons yelling and pounding their weapons on the edge of their shields.

    What some of these right wing groups are bringing to liberal communities are NOT protests. They come looking for a fight. They are on tape admitting it.

    They also have publicly admitted their intent is to cause liberal communities to waste resources dealing with their presence and the instability they bring.

    I am a huge supporter of protests. I think it is fundamentally American. America was born from protest. The first amendment of the constitution was to preserve and protect the right to protest.

    Protesting is a patriotic act. It strives to IMPROVE the nature of our government and our union.

    However, unlike a “patriotic” protests that protest some sense of grievance caused by government; the right wing “protestors” are going to peaceful communities and standing in defiance of the existence and nature of the these communities themselves. They oppose liberal communities. They don’t live in these communities. They are not effected by the liberal nature of these communities or their policies; they simply oppose the existence of the communities themselves.

    They want to disrupt them and drain their resources dealing with the protests to “punish” them and teach them a lesson for being liberal.

    Proud boys and other far right wing groups have been caught on tape literally planning violence prior to these “protests”.

    Some of these far right wing groups are EXPLICITLY fascist. All of them are fascist whether they admit it explicitly or not.

    I wonder how many right wingers imagined being on the side of the Nazis when they watched WWII movies as a kid.

    I wonder if most of you who hate and get so hysterical over Antifa imagined you would be politically aligned with the fascists when you were kids. Ideologically goose stepping alongside aligned fascist political interests.

    There is a reason that the most advanced artificial intelligences developed so far cannot distinguish the difference between a neo-Nazi/fascist and a “ordinary” far-right winger on social media; because there is essentially no difference at this point.

    And there hasn’t been a difference for nearly a hundred years. Essentially the far-right of American conservatism has ALWAYS been fascist.

    They just wrap themselves in the flag and call themselves “nationalists”’

    Antifa is not a terrorist group. And until they actually commit an act of terror, attempt one, or get caught planning/preparing for one any effort to classify them as a terrorist group would be unconstitutional.

    And all this right wing hate and hysteria of Antifa just demonstrates that fundamentally the right sees Antifa as the “other side” politically and ideologically. Because, whether they want to admit it or not, the right is politically aligned with the fascists.

    • Stacy0311 says:

      Thank you for providing 1000% of the RDA of bull shit.

      • Commissar says:

        No problem. I am working with my fellow liberal friends to make it into pill form to save all of us some time and effort.

        But it will likely be a suppository.

        • Poetrooper says:

          Socialist Politics 101:

          Our bullshit’s so obviously bullshit no one with any sense will swallow it so we’re gonna have to resort to shoving it up their asses…

        • Stacy0311 says:

          Suppository or oral, it’ll be going to the same spot for liberals.

        • Commie-Tsar says:

          I have my empiric evidence and talisman (the Flaccid Micropenis of Truth) that tells me what is bad!

    • A Proud Infidel®™️ says:

      Which group threatens violence, riots and loots when they screech? It’s Antifa. You’re completely full of shit as usual and it’s no coincidence that they pull their shit in deep blue locations because as soon as they try it in Red State America they’ll get their asses handed to them by Real People who don’t have any time or patience for them or their shit.

      • Commissar says:

        That is not accurate.

        Wake up from your fever dream.

        • Poetrooper says:

          “Wake up from your fever dream.”

          Textbook liberal projection…

        • The Other Whitey says:

          Andy Ngo would disagree. As would the ER docs who treated him. As would every other victim of Sturmabteilung Anqueefa. You’re a lying sack of shit, Lars. But we already knew that.

        • NHSparky says:

          Well, today is September 1st. IIRC, this is the day Antifa claimed they’d be doing protests in El Paso.

          Imma take a wild fucking guess and say ain’t gonna happen.

      • Helpful Medal says:

        “Which group threatens violence, riots and loots when they screech? It’s Antifa”

        OMG rioting and looting from pothead college kids? That’s the best you got? You’d have to be a real pussy to be worried about a bunch of skinny white kids in masks.

        • rgr769 says:

          Can I hit you in the head with a bike lock or a brick and send you to the ER with a brain bleed? Let’s put you in a MAGA hat and send you into a mob of them and we’ll seen how harmless they seem to you. Why do you think they wear masks? It is so that they can’t be identified for the crimes they intend to commit.

        • OldManchu says:

          Troll. I think I know who you are.

        • Ex-PH2 says:

          HM, they generally aren’t skinny college kids. The Antifas who beat up two Marines in Philadephia last year were hefty (almost fat) and WAY past college age, probably never went to college, either.

          The more accurate reference is that they are ne’er-do-wells AND possibly some college kids looking to cause both destruction and harm to others.

    • Ex-PH2 says:

      “Antifa has never killed anyone.” Not yet, but give them time and they will, even if it is by accident, Taylor. They have beaten people up and destroyed private and public property, which you choose to ignore but they have NO RIGHT TO DO.

      You are as bad about painting the conservative side of the coin with a single brush as Antifa is about attacking people, blocking traffic and destroying property. Do I have to bring up those two Marines that were beaten up by Antifas last year, when they were minding their own business????

      If you want to live in a country where EVERYTHING is controlled by the State, then move out of the USA. Go live in the UK, where the power grid is shut off or shuts itself off and people freeze to death in the winter. 53,000 people lost their lives last winter in the UK because their electric power was shut off and they weren’t allowed to use other sources for heat, as mandated by the UK Government.

      Go on. Find Utopia if you can. It’s waiting for you.

    • Hondo says:

      Now, y’all don’t be so hard on ‘Roo above (AKA “Commissar”). Above, he’s just doing verbally what his new namesake is doing in this very likely NSFW/around prudes, clergy, and children video clip.


    • Just Lurkin says:

      As with most Larsfacts a little googling paints a very different picture. The origin of the “50 killings by right wing extremists” appears to be the Anti Defamation League, which might as well call itself the SPLC light, and we await word of ADL higher ups being involved in a sex scandal. Of course when you look into specifics they point only to certain aspects of what these whack jobs said and ignore others. So, for instance, they play up the El Paso shooter’s anti-immigrant stances (hence “right wing”), while playing down his environmentalist talk (because that doesn’t help the narrative). The point of all of this is to let guys like leg-pisser Lars keep talking about how hard it is raining so that he can stay on offense. But we see you over there Lars, and we know it isn’t raining.

      • Commissar says:

        I would tell you to check some of the 50 killings for yourself and determine if they were right wing motivated or not.

        But that seems like your dissonance would kick in, Because you think the El Paso shooter was equally motivated by his “environmental” stance.

        Most millennials are concerned about the environment and climate change. Because they know it is going to have a huge impact on their lives.

        It is primarily boomer and gen-x republicans that see the environment as a partisan political issue. A luxury of those that know they will not be around to have to deal with most of the impact.

        Climate and the environment should not be a partisan issue the climate does not give a dam about your politics.

        The El Paso shooter did not target what he thought were immigrants because he was worried about the “environment.”

        He was also explicitly conservative. Despite his “liberal” concern for the environment.

        • A Proud Infidel®™️ says:

          As usual, you’re full of shit.
          Do this world a favor, STAY in California and DO NOT BREED.

        • Just Lurkin says:

          I’m not the one spraying my “dissonance” on my political opponents trying to convince them of the error of their ways now am I Lars? The fact is that lefties such as yourself have to push half truths, such as you did above, because you have to stay on the offense. You literally can’t play defense because your positions are so easy to debunk and so divorced from reality that you have to constantly impute the absolute worst motives to your opponents (such as you did above) all of the time lest you are forced to face what a mess you are making of the great institutions you are now wearing like a skin suit. But we know the difference between piss and rain Lars, and we don’t have any problem calling you on your lies.

          • Commissar says:

            Lurkin, the fact that right wing extremist violence is on the rise and has been growing almost exponentially is not a “half truth” narrative.

            It is fact backed by both the FBI. Their own reports show this and they explicitly reported this to congress and the justice department. And according to their congressional testimony the rate of incidents and arrests has doubled since 2017 when they released their last report.

            Left wing terrorism was on the rise in the 60s and 70s. Nobody denied that. Nobody denies it still.

            Yet, right wing terrorism has been on the rise for more than two decades and you all are STILL denying it.

            It is also interesting that you feel political aligned with and defensive of the far right and fascist groups while seeing Antifa as “the other side” and the Anti-Defamation League as having no credibility.

            How many clues will it take before you realize you are lock step with the goose steppers?

            • Commissar says:

              *Both the FBI and the Justice Department.

            • Just Lurkin says:

              Again, it’s a neat trick that you gaslighters try to pull off. You essentially say “right wing violence is on the rise” and “you guys have a position that is indistinguishable from extremists” and “we get to decide what is explicitly political and/or violent with regard to what gets reported”. When did the FBI and DOJ report what you say they reported Lars? Was it while Obama was using the IRS to persecute his political opponents? I know, I know-that is fake news right? Using the awesome power of government against your opponents is not something the lightbringer would do (I remember that it was a scandal that Nixon only talked about doing the exact same thing). And making a dozen or so government owned hard drives disappear, when the law explicitly states that they should be preserved, is only a wild coincidence that only conspiracy theorists could take any note of. Our institutions are corrupt, they have been corrupted by an “elite” that has been educated and credentialed by schools that have been controlled by the left for at least a generation. Since you are perversely proud of your Berkeley education it is no wonder that you continue to carry water for them. The rest of us see them for what they are, you seem to think that makes us “fascists” (fascists that support the right of our opponents to free speech and bearing arms, but whatever). I’m a small government guy Lars, unlike you Progs I’m not constantly proposing a government solution for every problem (real or perceived) that whatever designated victim group chooses to whine about today. That you can conflate that with “fascism” says a lot more about you than me. Again, you can quit pissing on my leg at any time.

            • Hondo says:

              Left wing terrorism was on the rise in the 60s and 70s. Nobody denied that.

              No, you and your ilk justified the 60s/70s left-wing violence as “necessary” and as “a form of protest”. You’re doing exactly the same regarding ANTIFA by downplaying their violent nature and changing the subject.

              Look, I have no use for violence from either extreme end of the so-called political spectrum (both extremes of which are supporters of big, authoritarian government – and so is most of the rest of the Left). But denying that many ANTIFA supporters are violent leftist extremists is, in the words of Hank Hill:

        • Ex-PH2 says:

          As usual, Lars Taylor proves his fallibility by making blanket statements not backed up by anything but his own prejudices and his Big Mouth.

          Per an article from Times of Israel: According to the report, an extremist related murder is a murder where “there must be positive evidence connecting the murderer to an extremist group or movement. However, the murderers themselves do not need to be necessarily related to racist or ideological motives to be included in the report. The report includes murders committed for ideological and non-ideological reasons. In fact, the report states that of the 50 murders, only 19 were considered ideologically or racially motivated. The rest of the murders were non-ideological or the motives were unclear.

          That’s only one paragraph from that article. I can add more, but Taylor’s too contemptibly lazy to click on the link and read something in which the FACTS conflict with his narrow viewpoint.

          The fact IS, Taylor, that you are a lazy, lamebrained, narrow-minded twit with only one objective, to make yourself look superior when, in fact, you look ridiculous. You NEVER provide back-up for anything you say. You just throw it out there and we’re supposed to swallow it, just because…. LARS TAYLOR!

          Doesn’t work that way, SPORT. Never has. When the ADL includes the shootings at the Parkland high school in its “report” as part of those 50 “right-wing” shootings, when they were NOTHING OF THE KIND, they lie like dogs, and you just swallow it like a freakin’ trout going after a feathered lure.

          You can’t even write complete sentences. You are functionally illiterate. Enjoy your narrow view. It’s really all you’ve got.

          • Commissar says:

            You prove again and again that this blog’s community, including members of the “staff” like you, are too immature, petty, and childish to be trusted with anyone’s personally identifiable information.

            Every time you get triggered you start acting like a anonymous basement troll.

            You are literally the senior citizen equivalent of a basement dwelling 20 year old angsty Incel.

            All isolation, pointlessness, and resentment.

            Your entire identity and self worth is based on having served 4 years in the Navy a half century ago and the fact that you groom your cats really well.

            • Mason says:

              Commissar Pot calling the kettle black here.

              Immature? ✓
              Petty? ✓
              Childish? ✓

              If you don’t like it here, then why do you come back? If you don’t trust the admin here with your PII, then why do you come back?

              • David says:

                I am still amazed that someone with a presumed post-grad education uses ‘wrack’ instead of ‘rack’, and ‘effect’ instead of ‘affect’. No wonder people who paid for higher education feel bilked.

              • Commie-Tsar says:

                I do have those qualities… and I love to wear my jackboots and “hammer and sickle” Speedo and strut in front of the mirror on Thursday nights

            • Ex-PH2 says:

              Immature? Petty? Childish?

              Is that because, like everyone else here, I can clearly show that your arguments are not just opinionated, but heavily flawed AND BACK UP WHAT I SAY WITH DOCUMENTATION?

              Must have something to do with it.

              You’re all butthurt because I can find documentation to rebut all of your lame opinions.

              You, on the other hand, are too self-involved and lamebrained lazy to do anything except let everyone know how fallacious you are.

              Just remember this: when Stalin knew that Lenin was out of his way, he began executing any possible opposition from senior military officers, those very experienced veterans of WWI and others like them because he knew they would be the most likely to bump him off if they could. And that can happen anywhere.

              Keep right on being blind to the consequences. It lets everyone know that you are too dense to understand that history repeats itself – repeatedly.

            • Ex-PH2 says:

              Oh, and while I’m at it, I have MUCH MORE THAN FOUR YEARS OF ACTIVE DUTY, Taylor, you dimwitted, febrile, impotently and perpetually angry illiterate slob.

              And it was LESS than half a century ago, but it still makes me SEVERAL better than you, you subliterate ignoramus.

    • SgtM says:

      Beating people with a bicycle lock while wearing a mask….. Burning up a college campus because you don’t like a speaker…. Throwing caustic materials in peoples faces…. Yeah you sure ain’t the bad guys….NOT…..

      • Commissar says:

        1. Clayton was a shithead who should have been given a stiffer sentence.

        . Prior to Clayton’s spaz attack the right had been punching people in the face. Including a well documented moment when the leader of one of the right wing groups ran up to and punched a woman in the face and then retreated back into the throng of right wingers.

        2.Nobody burned up a college campus. A piece of lighting equipment was burned. And Anti-fascists did not create that ruckus. Anarchists did. There is a group of Bay Area anarchists that show up to these protests and try to instigate and accelerate violence. They wear anarchist insignia and “ungoverned” logos. Anarchists are not the same as Anti-fascists and only seem indistinguishable to people who have no clue what they are talking about.

        Anarchists were a problem at occupy and occupy protesters routinely performed citizens arrests and turned them over to police. They are a bunch of teenage and teenage mentality asshats.

        3. When talking about “caustic materials” being thrown by Antifa at fascists groups it is strange that you ignore that fact that Proud Boys and their ilk spray mace and OC spray around like they are party favors.

        And nine times out of time the “caustic” materials being thrown are literally milk shakes. And the “concrete” milkshake rumor was a hoax.

        • Just Lurkin says:

          Shorter Lars-that one guy who did something bad wasn’t really one of us, and neither were those other guys who did something bad. We get to decide who is or isn’t one of the good or bad guys because reasons, also SHUT UP FASCISTS!

          • Commissar says:

            Doing the bad things makes you the bad guy.

            No matter what politics you hold.

            However, fascists are always bad guys.

            Why are you politically aligned with fascists?

            • Just Lurkin says:

              “Why are you politically aligned with fascists?”
              I’ve explained why I reject your idiotic gaslighting several times in this thread, please try to keep up.

          • Commissar says:

            Antifa is not the only issue you are on the same side of the argument as the fascists.

            You essentially stand with them on the same side of every political issue our country faces right now.

            • Just Lurkin says:

              That’s fucking hilarious Lars-I’ve seen alt-right guys call for increased government involvement in health care which guys like me oppose on principle due to my belief that government screws up virtually everything it touches. That you need to simplify and push people who aren’t alike at all so that your simple minded ass can keep up is unsurprising, but the rest of us don’t need to play your stupid games.

            • Mason says:

              There’s only one party who’s operating on a fascist agenda, and it ain’t the one supported by the majority here.

            • The Other Whitey says:

              Antifa/Anqueefa ARE fascists, Lars, you nutless dicksmoker. Stop the bullshit about how “it’s in their name.” Nobody gives a ratfuck what they call themselves, because they consistently act like Hitler’s brownshirts. They say one thing, but do something else. That makes them liars. No wonder you love them so much!

        • timactual says:

          “There is a group of Bay Area anarchists that show up to these protests and try to instigate and accelerate violence.”

          And yet nobody in the peace-loving “liberal” community they live in seems to be able to help the police identify them.

    • 11B-Mailclerk says:

      Dayton Ohio shooter said he was “Antifa”. Body count is non-zero.

      Standard Marxism blather is any opposition to Marxism is Fascist. Which is also bullshit. (Both the accusation and the Marxism)

      • Commissar says:

        What the hell? The standard is whether their political leanings were the MOTIVATION for the killings.

        Every time a republican beats his wife it is not counted as right wing violence.

        We don’t know what the hell motivated the Dayton shooter to pull the trigger yet but it definitely does not appear to be antifascist views.

        There were a hell of a lot of murders last year by people who held political views. Only a tiny fraction were motivated by those views.

        • Ex-PH2 says:

          Oh, you moron, you just showed your personal prejudices right there. Are you really so stupid that you think ONLY Republicans beat their wives? Are you???? What makes you think democrats don’t beat their “wives?” Huh?

          Beating a spouse is NOTHING BUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, you moron. It has nothing to do with politics, you dimwit, whether you like it or not.

        • Hondo says:

          We don’t know what the hell motivated the Dayton shooter to pull the trigger yet but it definitely does not appear to be antifascist views.

          Actually, based on what the Dayton shooter said he does appear to have had motivations based on the same principles as ANTIFA espouses. The Dayton shooter said – on social media, prior to the shootings – that he was (1) a Socialist; (2) wanted Socialism NOW!; and (3) was going to make things happen.

          Sounds exactly like what ANTIFA wants and preaches to me.

          The Dayton mass-murderer may not have been a formal, initiated, mask-wearing, “card carrying ANTIFA member”. However, he sure as hell seems to have been an ANTIFA supporter and “fellow traveler”. And per your logic above, I guess that also means that ANTIFA – and their supporters on the Left – thus rightfully share the guilt for his crimes.

          (Don’t much like it when the other shoe’s jammed on YOUR foot do ya, ‘Roo?)

        • timactual says:

          Since Republicans are right wing that must mean that Democrats are left wing, correct?

    • HMCS(FMF) ret says:

      “Nevertheless, the University of Maryland’s Global Terrorism Database has linked them to more than 200 incidents worldwide. None of the incidents listed in the database have happened in the United States.”

    • Perry Gaskill says:

      Lars, it seems to me that here’s a useful example of how things work:

      Back when the Unite the Right rally was happening in Charlottesville, one of the more thorough accounts was by the liberal C-Ville Weekly. The paper pointed out, correctly, that right-wing activist Jason Kessler had been granted a permit to hold the rally, and that it had been prompted by a near-unilateral attempt by black-activist Vice Mayor Wes Bellamy to have the Lee statue removed. This despite the recommendation of the city’s own historical advisory commission.

      Fast forward a few days later, when the dust started to settle from the resulting riot, and Charlottesville Police Chief Al Thomas, who also happened to be black, was quoted as saying that there was a lot of violence coming from both sides, a lot of finger-pointing to go around. It’s a near-certainty that Thomas had been in some kind of contact with President Trump, who was then savaged in the press for saying there were “very fine people on both sides.” Something which was seized on as apparent praise for the knuckleheads in the Ku Klux Klan, among others. What Trump actually said was:

      “Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

      On your related comment, I realize you’re probably a Greta Thunberg fan, and might even follow the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez squad on Twitter who apparently think Baby Boomers are all stupid old racist white guys. So I hope it’s not offensive to your tender progressive feelings when I suggest it might not be a bad idea to consider in a bit more detail the specific economic ramifications of spending $18 Trillion on a Green New Deal backed by arguably dodgy data.

      To use an old Jewish proverb, “Man plans and God laughs”…

    • Hate_me says:

      “In Italia i fascisti si dividono in due categorie: i fascisti e gli antifascisti.”
      -Ennio Flaiano

      Commissar, I honestly appreciate your contributions to this site. It’s nice to see conflicting views… though I suspect you are sometimes just playing devil’s advocate.

      Sometimes, your comments are valid rebuttals of biased or flawed ideas. Often, they are simply the polar opposite of whatever point you’re trying to refute – at least as full of bias, logical fallacy, or massaged information as the idea you’re addressing.

      Antifa has never killed anyone; as far as I know, that is accurate but misleading. They have certainly used potentially deadly violence. Their ineffectiveness doesn’t make the nature of the attack any less repugnant.

      Right wing extremists have nothing directly to do with the moral nature of Antifa’s actions. The list of non sequiturs there is a long one. Nor are all your premises contrasting them with Antifa true: While they don’t load up buses to travel (that I know of), they ARE arming themselves; shock weapons like hammers and bike locks are “arms” as much as baseball bats. They may not be traveling to the centers of conservative cities, but they are traveling to the centers of conservative gatherings to “intimidate, instigate, and disrupt.” Sometimes, they don’t even have to know the allegiances or leanings of their targets – many of whom are also local and have as much claim to that city as Antifa.

      The right wing groups aren’t usually innocent victims, sure, but – again – that is tangential.

      Nazis (and neo-Nazis, and the KKK, and any other group of that ugly line) have a right to their beliefs. I don’t agree with them, but I swear by their right to those beliefs – just as a I swear by the right of Antifa or Black Lives Matter or any other “leftist” organization to hold their beliefs. Every time I hear someone say I’m “on the side of the Nazis” or something along those lines, I want to say, “damn you for putting me in a position to defend them.” Until they act on those beliefs in a manner that infringes on anyone else’s rights, I’ll continue to do so.

      Please, provide a working definition of “fascist” – one that doesn’t apply to Antifa but still applies to groups like the Proud Boys or Identity Evropa (without actually putting something like “right wing” in the definition). It’s a very ambiguous term, which is a big reason why the arguments for/against either side are so high in emotion and so void of reason.

      While you’re at it, define “terrorism.” The loosest form would be the use of fear to obtain a political objective. If you accept that definition, please illustrate how that doesn’t apply to Antifa. So far, your argument is “others are better at it, so Antifa can’t be doing it at all,” which brings to mind so many of my old platoon sergeant’s colorful descriptions (that we can’t say, anymore) of how a line of thought couldn’t be more wrong.

      • Hondo says:

        Don’t hold your breath waiting for an answer, Hate_me. Commissar (AKA ‘Roo AKA Poodle AKA Seagull AKA a number of other post-ban monikers he used before being discovered) consistently shuts up whenever confronted concerning his lack of logical reasoning and/or the accuracy of his statements. As far as I know, he’s presented supporting citations to authoritative (or even reasonable), verifiable sources for something he’s claimed precisely once – and then, it was a “cut and paste” job which presented text but no link for verification. (The quote did appear legit, but lack of a clear citation or link made it very difficult to verify independently.) He simply deems things correct and readers are supposed to accept his pontifications without question.

        He loves to wax ignorant here. But when called out, he cuts and runs rather than backing his own argument with fact. That’s generally a characteristic of someone spouting arguments for which they have zero supporting facts.

        • GDContractor says:

          The other day he blamed enforcement “loopholes” in regards to money laundering for high property prices in Commiefornia. I posted a link to an article that directly refutes that. To which, I received…crickets.

          It’s not the first time, either. Usually, one (if not more) of his specific points can be proven factually false with a quick Google search.

          “Death threats against Obama are up over 400%” and “The Chinese manmade islands were an issue that Obama inherited” are two examples that easily come to mind. We should make a list of all of the fallacies he has projected with bluster and bravado. There would be many.

          He mistakes indoctrination for education. It’s obvious that Berkeley never taught him critical thinking. But, if the had, it’s doubtful he would have paid the tuition for what they were selling.

          • Perry Gaskill says:

            GDC, the CNBC story was interesting. It points out the apparent crackdown on “shadow buyers” using LLCs, and scrutiny of all-cash or wire transfer transactions over certain amounts. In the interest of fairness, Lars included money laundering and foreign investments among other factors affecting California real estate prices. A few things struck me as curious aspects in the CNBC piece:

            Trying to curb money laundering seems a lot like playing whack-a-mole. Once you bash one loop-hole, another scam pops up to take its place.

            Apparently part of the crackdown relies on private title companies to vet actual buyers. This seems shaky, but I could be wrong.

            Real estate doesn’t seem like a particularly good method of parking ill-gotten swag because real property is not a very liquid asset. It’s usually easier to get the cash into it than it is to get it out.

            • GDContractor says:

              If you are suggesting that criminal activity exists because of suggesting that criminal activity exist because of criminals, rather than “loopholes”… I agree with you.

      • Hondo says:

        Postscript to the above: you also probably should have used the English translation of your Flaiano quote vice the original Italian. Based on past experience, Commissar will almost certainly be “too busy” to translate it and will thus miss your point.

        • Hate_me says:

          I find the original Italian lends weight to any conversation about the reality of fascism. It’s not a difficult quote to understand, even if one doesn’t speak Italian (I don’t), but I get your point.

          • Hondo says:

            Agreed. But generally ‘Roo here (AKA Commissar) needs to have things spelled out for him. Seems he’s always “too busy” to do things like find links to sources or cite examples to support his bloviation.

          • Ex-PH2 says:

            Hondo, Die Poodleputscher will NEVER post links to back up any of his statements.

            He’s too busy defending Marxism and trying to differentiate between the Nazis and the Marxists that he forgets the really nasty things that happened under those regimes.
            Must be painful for him to show his failures in public, but he needs attention. Otherwise, he wouldn’t show up.

    • OldManchu says:

      You must be getting paid by the paragraph.

    • timactual says:

      “Right wing extremists in the US killed at least 50 people last year”

      Show me.

  13. Harry says:

    I guess nobody ever passed on to these stupid-ass millennials the age-old wisdom of “keep your mouth shut and your profile low”. Idiot.

    • Hondo says:

      Of course not. They’ve grown up with the Internet and social media – and have only rarely if ever been held accountable for bad behavior or stupid decisions.

      Still: you’d expect someone who’s served in the military to know better. Former miitary generally DO know what it’s like to be held accountable for bad behavior or stupid decisions.

    • NHSparky says:

      Mostly because there are no (negative) consequences to their actions.

      They used to say stupidity should be painful. Nowadays it gets you millions of Instagram and YouTube followers and movie deals.


    He should have taken a fun, relaxing boat trip with his boomsticks, that turned tragic when the boat capsized.

  15. Poetrooper says:

    Lars is guilty of “Reductio ad Hitlerum” by trotting out the old liberal trope of equating American conservatives with Nazis. If Lars were as astute as he likes to believe, he would know the “absurdity” of that.

    Nazis were socialists, as the name of their organization, the National Socialist Party, clearly signified. Modern day leftists try to dodge that reality by pointing out that German communists were the real leftists and that because the Nazis opposed them, they, the Nazis, had to be right-wing. That, like so many liberal leftist arguments, is simply not so: The Nazis battled the communists for political control of the country, but control to be exerted from the left side of the political spectrum, regardless of outcome.

    Just as their party name foretold, the Nazis believed like the communists, in central planning and control of the means of production by the state, but unlike the communists, Hitler permitted ownership of those means to remain in private hands so long as the owners remained obedient to his mandates.

    Both political groups believed in dictatorial, strong-man control and rigid regimentation of society. Where they differed was on the issue of scope, with the Nazis believing in the supremacy of the German state, or Third Reich nationalism, while the communists believed in globalism, just as the American left does today.

    Lars knows this, but it’s another one of those inconvenient truths his side likes to ignore. Here’s another: Both the Nazis and communists adopted the color red as emblematic of their leftist, socialist movements while blue was largely used by conservative and Republican organizations throughout the 20th Century. That is, up until 2000, when the American media suddenly switched the representative colors of the two sides because red was too closely identified with world communism. Yep, they just up and did it because they could–and it’s stuck hasn’t it? Never underestimate their power–or their treachery.

    So, Larsie, just continue calling us Nazis–every time you do, you trumpet either your ignorance or your mendacity–likely both.

    • Commissar says:

      The American far right is textbook fascism. Has been for nearly a century, often explicitly.

      The Nazis were not “socialists” They were fascists.

      The term “socialist” in German politics at the time in Germany was anti-marxist. The Marxists in Germany were called “Communists”.

      German socialism was based on Oswald Spengler’s political theories.

      Spengler’s “socialism” was explicitly and staunchly anti-Marxist. It was corporatist. It believed fusing industrial power with civil society was the source of National strength.

      Google his book “ Preussentum und Sozialismus“

      Trying to claim they Nazis were socialists because they used it in their name shows how little you know about the issue or the history of fascism.

      The Nazis literally killed the communist leadership FIRST. Literally. They killed them FIRST.

      Do you also claim North is a “Democracy” because they named their country “The People’s Democratic Republic of Korea”?

      Claiming the Nazis were “socialist” because they used the term in their name is the most superficial and ignorant argument the right has on the issue.

      • Mason says:

        They were socialists because they nationalized industry. The “means of production” as you proletariat would call it.

        The only difference between Hitler’s Nazism and Stalin’s Communism is that Hitler thought all non-German, non-Christians were subhuman while Stalin thought that everyone was subhuman.

        • Commissar says:

          They did not nationalize industries. They were corporatists. That is not the same thing.

          Fascism fuzes industry, government, and civil society for national strength. Not to benefit workers. They do it for national power, not social welfare.

          The fusion of all the elements of a nation into one “Fasci” in order to promote national strength is literally where the term “”Fascism” comes from.

          The fascists were violently anti-Marxist.

          They were explicitly anti-communist, anti-liberal, and anti-capitalist.

          That is where a lot of the confusion comes from. “Capitalism” was seen as center left at he time. Fascism was the right wing response to “liberalism”.

          Fascism is right wing. Period. You can call it “right wing socialism” if you like. Though it has no ideological roots in Marxism.

          Fascism has no more similarities to left wing socialism than right wing populism has similarities to left wing populism. They share some similar rhetoric but heir vision for society is entirely different. Both were, and still are, a response to the perceived failures of capitalism. Socialism is the left wing response, fascism/nazism the right wing response.

          Trump is literally the right wing response to the perceived failures of capitalism and liberalism today.

          Just as fascism was the right wing response to the failures of capitalism and liberalism in the 1930s.

          It is no coincidence that Trumpism includes most of the historical tenets of fascism with a little bit of Listian neo-Mercantalism thrown in.

          None of the historical fascist countries had all the tenets of fascism but all implemented or promoted most of them. Trumpism promotes most of them as well.

          • Just Lurkin says:

            Really?!? Capitalism was “center-left” during the rise of fascism? Why then did the sainted FDR himself make it illegal for private individuals to own precious metals in 1933? I mean how dare individuals try to protect their wealth against government action? The soul of “capitalism” (I hate to use Marx’s word) is the market and the market will find alternatives. It looks to me that the “center left” in the person of no less than the President of the United States of America lacked faith in the power of markets and threatened government force against those who did not wish to comply. But remember, the right is fascist.

            • GDContractor says:

              FDR? The same racist bastard that came to Dallas and dedicated a statue to Robert E. Lee?
              The same FDR who spoke about Lee in glowing terms of admiration? That FDR?

          • Mason says:

            Trump is not a response to the perceived failures of capitalism. He is the response to people being fed up with the political class not working for us.

            The similarities between Nazism and Communism are too numerous to list, because fundamentally they are the same. That they started from different motivations is irrelevant. That they both hated each other is irrelevant. The end result is mass suffering and genocide.

            • GDContractor says:

              Lars wrote: “Trump is literally the right wing response to the perceived failures of capitalism and liberalism today.”

              Huh? I thought Trump was president because the Russians hacked the election? Or, I thought it was because Cambridge Analytica duped the “undecided”. Or, I thought it was because of “mind control” exercised by GoogleFacebook.

              All of the above, I find humorous, given that you and I, at one time, AGREED that Trump would not have been the GOP nominee without the complicity of the Democrats and The Press who conspired to get “Hillary’s preferred opponent” at the top of the GOP ticket.

              The facts are that Trump was a failed, bankrupt, grifter until Hollywood re-made him into a “business genius” while making bank on The Apprentice themselves.

              The notion that a bunch of racist white guys spontaneously picked Trump as their idealogical leader, while sitting around at deer camp, is laughable. Hollywood packaged him, and big Dems (including the press) salivated over the possibility that he would be the GOP nominee. So what flavor of fascist does that make them, Lars?

          • Hondo says:

            Fascism is right wing. Period. You can call it “right wing socialism” if you like. Though it has no ideological roots in Marxism.

            Missed this previously.

            Damn, ‘Roo – are you so freaking ignorant that you actually believe Marx invented Socialism?

            The concept of a communal society dates back to at least the early Christian Era (see Acts of the Apostles), if not earlier. A peasant revolution in England in the late 1300s is proudly claimed by the UK Labor Party to be part of their heritage, because it was based on the principles of “Christian socialism”.

            Hell, political movements described as having coherent socialist philosophy (and, presumably, socialist objectives for society) predate Das Capital by roughly two decades. Go look up the Owenites, Saint-Simonists, and Fourierists – among others.

            Let me put it to you in simple terms: the term “Socialism” is NOT equivalent to “Marxism”, and never has been. As a political philosophy, Socialism existed before Marx ever put pen to paper writing Das Capital. Marxism is simply an extreme and infamous variant of Socialism – and was also the philosophy espoused by regimes that murdered at least five times as many persons for political reasons in the 20th Century than the Axis Powers did during World War II.


            • Twist says:

              Joseph Smith tried socialism with the early Mormon Church in Kirtland, Ohio in the early 1830’s. It failed. So the Mormons tried socialism and it failed when Marx was still a young teenager.

      • Hondo says:

        The Nazis were not “socialists”

        According to Hitler, the Nazis were indeed Socialists.

        And don’t give me any more of that “Hitler never said that – it was Spengler” crap. In previous comments here I’ve already cited speeches given by Hitler where he said precisely that himself. Once Hitler said it as Der Fuhrer, that became Nazi dogma.

        • Commissar says:

          Nazi “socialism” was not the same thing. It had no roots in Marxism. It was nationalist and corporatist.

          Literally the opposite of Marxist socialism.

          Claiming they were “socialist” is as accurate as saying North a Korea is democratic.

          • Hondo says:

            Quit trying to change the subject and/or introduce irrelevant points.

            The point of discussion was whether or not Nazi’s were Socialists. Whether they were Socialists of the Marxist variety is a different discussion entirely.

            By Hitler’s own pronouncement, Nazis were socialists. They were a particularly nasty and authoritarian form of Socialism that murdered the third highest total number of people, excluding deaths due to war, in history (the USSR and the PRC are #1 and #2). But they were socialists.

            You appear to have just admitted that the Nazis were socialists. Good. The truth is now starting to get through to you. Not all Socialists are Marxists.

            Socialism is a philosophy of the left, remember? So by your own admission above, now you need to face the fact that the Nazis were a leftist phenomenon. Whether they were “Fascists” or not – or whether they were Marxists – is irrelevant.

            Moreover, you are aware that German industrialists were actually studying Marxist theory by the 1938-39 time frame because Nazi economic policies were so similar to those of the USSR – right? Well, they were. I’ve previously posted citations to authoritative sources showing that in comments here, too. I believe it was Speer himself who made that observation, but I could be in error on that point; it’s been a while since I looked it up.

            Now, kindly go play in I-580 rush-hour traffic. You’re worth no more of my time today.

            • rgr769 says:

              See, you are supposed to believe Squidward, the commie cuttlefish, because when he “says a word, it means what (he) says it means, nothing more and nothing less.” Just because they called themselves the National Socialist German Workers Party (NDSAP) and said they were socialists and “socialized” (governmentalized) every aspect of living in Germany, you should ignore those facts cuz they aren’t LarsFacts. You should also ignore the fact that the Italian Fascist Party also had socialist underpinnings.

              • Fyrfighter says:

                and when antifa says there’s anti-facist, we should believe that, because it’s literally in their name… the irony of those comments obviously escapes him…

        • Commissar says:

          You are just choosing no to accept established historical fact. Because it makes you uncomfortable.

          The Nazis were violently anti-communist and anti-Marxist.


          • Poetrooper says:

            Um, Lars, your reading comprehension still sucks. I know, I know, it’s the dyslexia, poor baby.

            I didn’t say the Nazis weren’t anti-communist. I just pointed out that both were leftist movements. Their political differences were more a matter of degree than diametrically opposing stances.

            Split all the communist, socialist, fascist, corporatist hairs you want to, but we all know that with exception of globalism, it’s your side, in its current iteration, that has the most similarities to the, splutter, gasp, choke…eeevil Nazis!!!

            • GDContractor says:

              Lars has Cognitive decline aka Joe Biden disease.

              • Poetrooper says:

                Actually, GDC, it’s Deceptive Cognitive Decline, wherein they both are thoroughly dishonest but can’t remember why they’re doing it.

              • Hondo says:

                I prefer to think of ‘Roo’s (AKA Commissar’s AKA Poodle’s) affliction as rectalcranial insertion.

            • Ex-PH2 says:

              This should be interesting. The Nazis under Hitler and Commies under Stalin put together the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. They seem to have known how to get along with each other pretty well.

        • Commissar says:

          Honda, have you even taken a single moment to ask yourself why you find yourself politically allied with fascists on so many issues if fascism was “socialism”?

          Next to Evangelicals they are the most reliable and enthusiastic base of voters for the Republican Party right now.

          They are not voting democrat. The sure as hell don’t support the AOC “Squad”, or Bernie, or Warren.

          They are MAGA core.

          Name something that fascists politically support in the current political discourse that Trump and the Republican Party don’t also support?

          They may claim to have different rhetoric and justifications but the right wing is lock step in goose step with fascists right now.

          • Mason says:

            Who are these fascist political figures you reference so frequently? There are no national fascist parties. What are the stances you think we and Trump support?

            There are neo-Nazi and other racist groups. Trump has repeatedly condemned them, as does anyone here.

            There is a party that’s running on the platform of limiting free speech, nationalizing entire industries, and dividing the country by race and gender. It’s not the GOP.

            • 11B-Mailclerk says:

              To the Marxist, anything that opposes Marxism is “fascist”.


              The whole Marxist thing is based on fraud and force. Expecting rational thought from them is pointless.

      • NHSparky says:

        Anti-Marxist is not, nor was it ever, anti-socialist.

        Hitler and Stalin may not have been buddies back in the day, but they certainly ran in a lot of the same circles.

        Look up the difference between national versus international socialism. Do try and keep up, won’t you?

      • A Proud Infidel®™️ says:

        Hey shit-for-brains, Hitler’s Nazi party originally had its Sturmabteilung also known as the “Brown Shirts” who acted JUST LIKE today’s Antifa pissants. They intimidated people, carried out acts of violence, rioted and looted as well as made life hell for any and all who dissented with Nazi dogma and ideology. When have we ever heard of Conservatives carrying out acts of violence against libtards like you while we see and hear of your ilk beating people just for wearing a MAGA hat? Jesus loves you while everyone else thinks you’re a bloviating poodledick!

      • timactual says:

        That depends on which flavor of German socialism you want to talk about; there were/are a number of them. Not all of them were based on Spengler. Bismarck, for example, had his own flavor of Socialism. The Nazis had just as good a claim to being “Socialist” as many other German “Socialist” parties.

        Speaking of superficial and ignorant arguments, as a dead white male once said, “If you want to converse with me, first define your terms.” Another dead white male said “The beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms.”

    • HMCS(FMF) ret says:

      “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is…in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
      –Theodore Dalrymple

      • Poetrooper says:

        “A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.”

        I had no idea Ted knows Lars.

        Small world…

    • rgr769 says:

      Also, Hitler’s dislike of the communists was that many of them in Germany were Jews and they supported the international communist goals of the Soviet Union, an obvious threat to the Greater Reich which was to be expanded into Soviet territory for his “lebensraum.”

      • Poetrooper says:

        But, but, but, rgr769, lefties like Lars just love Jews and the Jewish nation, don’t they?

        DON’T THEY???

        • Poetrooper;
          I’m of the Jewish faith and am a Conservative who served in the US Navy, inactive Navy Reserve, NY State Army National guard, Volunteer FireFighter for thirty years, am a fire arms owner and don’t have horns growing out of my head. Is the Jewish nation some sort of tribal thing like the American Indians?

          • Mason says:

            If it were, Elizabeth Warren would have tried to appropriate it.

          • Poetrooper says:

            Jeff, my remark was meant to be sarcastic; guess I should have so indicated.Thankfully there are growing numbers of conservative Jews in America who recognize the American Left for what it is, a very real threat to the State of Israel and, by extension, all those who support it.

            How so many American Jews can remain loyal to the Democrat party, a party openly signaling its growing antisemitism, is a baffling question.

  16. Green Thumb says: