More beret kerfuffle
Today’s outrage seems to be about a Green Beret. The Army established the 1st Security Force Assistance Brigade at Fort Benning, Georgia earlier this year. Their mission, according to Mil.Gov is;
The 1st SFAB is the first brigade purposefully built to help combatant commanders accomplish theater security objectives by training, advising, assisting, accompanying and enabling allied and partnered indigenous security forces.
Their shoulder patch is a little odd;
Soldier Systems says that the tab has changed, but I can’t verify that;
But the biggest stink is about their beret, which is a different shade of green than the traditional Special Forces Green Beret, supposedly. There are a number of petitions out there from special forces soldiers and veterans asking that the 1st SFAB not wear their shade of Green Berets.
I haven’t found any instance of anyone wearing that distinctive headgear, even on the 1st SFAB Facebook page. All I see is helmets and patrol-type caps. But then I remember the Shinseki days when the Army Chief of Staff decided that a Black Beret taken from Rangers would improve morale in the US Army.
The Army is seeking volunteers for the 1st SFAB and offering $5000 bonuses for reenlisting volunteers, so yeah, they might be thinking about a beret as a cheap way to attract soldiers – but I don’t see anything tangible in that regard.
I remember in 1979, when the Army Chief of Staff wiped out all of the distinctive headgear that wasn’t in the Army Regulation 670-1 (Uniform Wear and Appearance standards) which took away the maroon beret from Airborne soldiers, Stetsons from Cav soldiers, black berets from tankers, the wool blanket beret of the 172nd Brigade in Alaska, basically everything that wasn’t Special Forces Green Berets and Rangers’ Black Berets. It took changing the Army Chief of Staff to return the maroon beret to airborne troopers.
Given the Army’s love for changing uniforms, I don’t doubt that they’ll try to slip this one past us, but there’s no real evidence right now.
Category: Army News
Easy fix. Just stay the fuck away from any shade of green…period.
The Special Forces work too damn hard for that beret to have someone else wear the almost same shade.
I agree, whole-heartedly. I was debating volunteering for this after my current stint at language school, but I have no interest in wearing a green beret of any shade (apparently it’s olive green, rather than rifle) when I haven’t earned it.
That SSI also seems very wanna-be.
I have too much respect for the long-tabbers.
better fix…no berets.
Anytime you see a formation of soldiers in berets you know exactly what they think of the beret by how they wear them.
You have the pizza man, french cabbie, flathead, comb over, floppy hat, and many other wear styles for the beret in any formation.
And what do the NCOs do to correct the soldiers and make them wear it correctly?
Nothing.
Why?
They don’t like the beret either.
So just stop, Army. Most of the soldiers hate the beret and feel like you are just handing out bling.
While I agree we shouldn’t be so focused on what color hat we wear, that green beanie is a legitimate symbol that should be respected.
On the other hand, this whole issue has somehow resulted in “Raspberry Beret” getting stuck in my head, which just reminds me of the 82nd gay porn scandal. So it’s at least good for a laugh.
Was it back in the early 70’s that Admiral Zumewalt had enlisted sailors from E1 up to E6 wearing Chiefs uniforms???
I blame Carter for that. No matter who else was involved in it, it’s his fault. Someone also wanted the women wearing a beret instead of the bucket hat, something that wouldn’t stay on anyone’s head.
There’s never an end to the idiocy known as the Bright Ideas Club’s crap.
Sorry, gotta blame Z; Carter wasn’t even elected until after Zumwalt retired. Being a soldier, the uniforms didn’t bother me, but the beards sure did.
I know, but I still want to blame ALL of it on Carter, because he was/is such a jackass.
No argument there.
Was there anything ‘ol Jimmeh Kahtuh did right?
sending a private advisor to Khomeni telling him if one hair was hurt on a hostages head, he’d nuke the country flat. Oh, and taking Canada’s help getting our civilians out of Iran. My pay raises were nice…There were plenty of black ops that were done right,,,you can tell, because they’re still classified. So, I guess, yep, he did some things right.. Not deregulation of transportation, or oil, or public utilities. That Playboy interview was the first time I actually bought one for the interview.
Yes. He lost an election miserably.
He did increase defense spending before Reagan took office.
Rather a bit late, true, but he finally got a clue. A second term might have proved interesting.
not jimmy carter-aston carter
” … known as the Bright Ideas Club’s crap.”
AKA: the Good Idea Faerie. Two rounds to the brain housing group seems appropriate.
SOMEBODY got hit by the Good Idea Fairy flying at Mach 3!
Seriously, I thought briefly that the title was ‘More beer kerfuffle’. It turned out to be about hats instead of beer. (Sigh)
Yep Admiral DUMBwalt!!
The shoulder patch.
Looks….precarious.
Signal has a bolt of lightning for a blade.
Just sayin.
The WTF Army Facebook page has the goods on this pile of BerNasTy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody and their cousin wants to be a high-speed, low-drag, snake-eater – without the blood, sweat, and misery payment, required up front, to get there.
Arrowhead patch, a sword inside, a tab, a green hued beret, come on, who do these pogue legs think they are fooling?
I completely agree. It seems as if someone couldn’t get into the “Big Boys Club” so they went off and made their own.
I completely agree. It seems as if someone couldn’t get into the “Big Boys Club” so they went off and made their own.
Forty years from now “my mom and dad were Green Berets in the Army”, nope they just wore one.
They’re great on hats, aren’t they? They know about hats. They have hats everywhere. Performance is less important than the hats people wear.
Maybe everyone is just being whiny little bitches. Do your job. Whatever it is. This is the Army, not a fashion event.
Yes.
If I were SF I would be so mad right now. And rightly so.
A free green beret and shoulder patch suspiciously looking like a high speed unit? And 5000 dollars?
Where is the phone number for this advise and assit unit….?
How about giving the SFAB Soldiers Raspberry berets… the kind you find in a second hand store?
And I thought the Navy was all AFU when it came to uniforms…
Damnit Doc. Now I have that song stuck in my head. Solid reference though.
And if you want stupidity approaching terminal velocity, just wait and see what’s coming down the pipe with the new uniform regs for the Type III’s.
Isn’t there a Prince song that could go along with beret that could be their official ditty.
Well, there is the Prince song, “Sexy Motherfucker,” but TPTB might take offense.
“And I thought the Navy was all AFU when it came to uniforms…”
The US Army did a great job of screwing the pooch with “EVERYONE gets a Beret” Shinseki and fucked up again with the “Pajamas”, I mean ACU’s.
Raspberry is a poor choice – too close in color to maroon.
Let them have their beret – provided it is either mauve, lavender, or chartreuse. (smile)
How about international orange-it can double as a safety device for their runs.
Just fucking stupid! I’d like to think the CSA of the Army would put a kibosh to this bullshit! Want to wear a Green Beret, Camp Mackall is waiting.
Yes, it is waiting. But in the world of participation trophies, we have to have a green beret for those that can’t make it through the SF assessment course, let alone the qualification courses. It is just part of the effects of commander 0’s program to demean the real warfighters. There are still many proggies in uniform making these types of decisions.
Ok, maybe there’s something a bit more bureaucratically encroaching than a different shade of green beret….doesn’t it seem that their mission statement is also that of Army SF? Are they trying their hand at being Green Beret “lite”? In any case, they can take that 5k reup bonus and enjoy a tour in Niger…
I think the whole train and advise part of the SF role is under some scrutiny in DC as a whole.
Talk in the Pentagram…err…Pentagon seems to be that some of the “irregular warfare” mission tasks are “holding SF back” in their training.
This tells me that the “thinkers” want SF to be focused on the kinetic mission set only. To be fair, SF is really good at no knock introductions, but I’m not sure that isn’t what other organizations (like Rangers) are also good at.
The irregular warfare mission IMO is what really sets the SF folks apart. Taking that task set and placing it into a more “regular” force seems ill conceived to me.
The way I read it, it’s worse than the beret & insignia.
It sounds like they are trying to encroach on Army SF’s FID mission.
Don’t get me wrong, I think FID sucks balls and hated every time I was exposed to it, with the exception of working with the Estonians but that wasn’t cut & dried FID.
But FID is ‘owned’ by Army SF, based both on historical achievements and routine high levels of competence.
Who do you want accompanying US forces into battle? Locals trained by Army SF, with decades of institutional knowledge and experience, or guys who went looking for this unit after hearing about &5k, a cool beret, and a cool insignia?
I could be wrong and talking completely out of my a$$ (it would be the 1st time for that, no, really) but the wording of the unit’s mission makes me very leery.
Calling The SARC for clarification. Calling The SARC. Get off the stewardesses and check in, you Amphibious Scallywag.
Mr Sharkman you are correct FID is a core SF mission. I’ve been on FID missions where ODA’s from the same company were simultaneously deployed to countries that were actively engaged in hostilities against each other.
I’m surprised CSA Gen Milley signed off on this with him being an old 5th Group guy.
I am a member of SFAB, I’ve seen this same photo everywhere that people are having a meltdown over. It is not green. It is way more brown than anything. This pic looks greenish from the lighting. The actual color is the same as the Royal Anglian Regiment berets. If anything it’s closer to the Rangers tan than green.
I know you think you’re helping, but you’re not helping.
Great comment, John and I hope all is well. Didn’t we kill these stupid ideas in 2001?
I’ll put out the one pagers and phone lists. 🙂
AATW,
Andre (from the Hill)
How has this joker gone unnoticed in this thread?? Fuck you, dude. Stop being an SF wannabe, get your ass down to Camp Mackall and begin the process of earning something.
It goes beyond the beret or what color it is; look at your general mission statement and your patch and tab – all rip offs of SF. You are the epitome of a douche for being in this “unit”:
He was noticed.
Our Platoon Sergeant did the needful, and in his usual effective and Laconic way.
Oh, and fuck you again. You don’t deserve a beret no matter what color it is.
Oh, and fuck you again. You don’t deserve a beret no matter what color it is. Fucking asshat.
And NO SOUP FOR YOU as well!
Since they are doing a job the Special Forces has been doing for almost 50 years it is appropriate for them to wear a sort-of-green beret. They can move up to real green berets when they become real special forces.
Evidently advising has become a lot more special since the Vietnam war when thousands of American soldiers advised the Vietnamese without any beret or special patch at all.
I’ve got it! A new Brigade means a new Brigade commander slot! The Army can have another Brigadier General. Plus another staff. And a new tab, and probably a new decoration and/or badge. And a decoration and promotion for the staff weanies who dreamed this up.
Hate to burst yer bubble, but Army brigade commanders are almost always Colonels. (smile)
I know, but this is a special, independent command, full of special people doing special things in special places.
And it will probably be a “joint” command, too, thereby rating a BG so that the Navy, Marine, AF, and State wallahs are suitably awed.
Greenish beret
Longish tab
Upwards pointing pointing thing on an arrowhead background
Oh come on. This is so -blatant- it is stupid.
I would go so far as to think that someone is hoping the real SF types change hats over this, much as the Rangers did when someone appropriated their black beret.
This is -so- blatant it is -stupid-.
This -has- to be an effort at trashing morale. No newly-minted 2LT is -that- fucking stupid as to dream up this bullshit.
2Lt Rapone is -that- stupid, just sayin’….
Having further reviewed the online info…
Someone wants to regularize the SF mission, and thus separate the SF culture from the regulars.
SF is apparently an annoyance or threat to someone fairly high up. Since SF seems to be heavily in the business of liberating the oppressed, might I reasonably conclude that someone decided that SF loyalty is misplaced?
Have we come to that point now?
I get that many regular forces types think of them as an aberration, not an asset. But this seems to me as a major play to reduce and effectively geld a culture that, going by online postings and those I have known personally, is rather firmly in the “oh no you won’t radically alter our constitutional republic” camp.
This theory may seem a bit … over the top. However, SF does have a reputation for liberating the oppressed, exactly the sort of counter-revolutionary types one would have to neutralize, come the revolution.
Given some recent shenanigans, I am -highly- troubled by this seemingly beyond-stupid idea.
If we need this mission done “on the cheap” , why dilute (geld) the premium brand?
Hmm. Every bit of bad press SAFB generate with heavy-handedness or screwups will be attributed to “green berets” and “SF”.
In many cases, they will be indistinguishable from SF….
This is starting to sound like a really bad book plot device.
What motto? Something about “assurance” versus “liberation”, perhaps?
Stop beating around the bush and just say it. OBAMA!
And you are correct in your thinking.
Another leftover from the previous administration to give the Military yet another turd sandwich.
As a retired Air Force NCO if I were to see a green beret I would not know the difference unless I got close enough to see their tab. I would assume they were Green Berets. Does anyone not think the Army is doing this purposely?
The media would never be able to tell the difference either. They kept calling the unfortunate and recently deceased Ordnance SGT Johnson a “green beret” when he was not so qualified. Although he was assigned to 3rd SFG(A) and attached to an ODA he was not SF qualified; and that is why he is seen wearing a maroon beret.
Neither was SSG Johnson. He was a NBC NCO. To be honest this sounds more like an ODB than an ODA.
Why do they need special flare to begin with? Good grief can the US Army do anything without trying to show off?
Tip of the spear pog advisor. “Combat” advisor LOL.
Another O6 Command Slot with a gaggle of Shaft(*OOPS!*, Staff) Officers,… Yet another brilliant idea from somewhere in The Great Five-Sided Asylum.
I’m not sure I’d want to jump into the uniform fight over the beret and such. Although it’s understandable Special Forces might be pissed, it also seems like the tail wagging the dog in the larger context of whether or not SFAB is conceptually a good idea.
What should be raising eyebrows, at least it seems to me, is that the Army plans to have five SFAB brigades in place by 2022. And they’ve apparently set such a buildup timeline without providing proof-of-concept by way of a functioning and successful SFAB already working.
Some of the planned details also seem iffy. The eight-week and 16-week language courses might be problematic, for example. Anybody who has been through DLI could probably tell you that eight weeks is just about enough time to learn to ask where to find the bathroom. Instead of trying to provide half-ass language training, SFAB might want to consider recruiting from an existing linguist pool.
Although concern about SFAB encroaching on the existing mission of Special Forces is valid, it might be pointed out that during the latter stages of Vietnam there was little apparent conflict between SF teams, and those engaged in the larger “Vietnamization” effort. Partly that was due to a variety of factors including different scales of indigenous units, mission scope, and in-country location.
We weren’t language qualified in the 10th SFG(A) when my detachment was to spend a month in southern Germany on an unconventional warfare exercise, so they gave us a whole three weeks of German language training. Luckily, I had fifteen months in Germany before my trip to RVN, so I was able to cobble together enough German to communicate with the Germans I had to work with.
Immersion is by far the fastest way to acquire language skills. Plus you acquire the local colliquialisms.
Yep.
It’s true immersion is good. DLI didn’t allow English in classes after the second week. The advantage of DLI over on-the-fly immersion while in-country was that it also provided a lot of background on native culture, history, politics, and so forth. This could sometimes help later to provide context, and a certain psychological edge depending on who you were talking to.
Colloquialisms could be a mixed bag. While it’s true DLI tended to turn out linguists trained to be almost as formal as an English butler, that wasn’t always such a bad thing. It seemed easy enough to pick up street slang while still useful if you needed to button down more when talking to an ARVN dai huy or whatever.
Some of the DLI Basic course folks get to do some immersion during the course. HUGE PITA.
CTIC(SG) (Ret)
One of the things the Army did back when was to test for language skills at induction. If, for example, you had had civilian classes or family background in Spanish or German they would test to see how much you had actually picked up. The other test was one with a totally fabricated and bogus faux language that would test for how well you could understand grammar structure and, say, verb parsing. Remember that one?
A mistake the Army sometimes made with such stuff was in assuming that just because somebody had the talent to learn French that he would also be good learning Mandarin Chinese.
Odd, I grew up speaking both French and English. Nobody tested me for it on induction
Everyone headed for boot camp is asked about it when they come in now, based on the ILR scale. Not tested, just asked. I assist giving the DLPT down here every week. We get some interesting cats 😉
CTIC(SG) (Ret)
Day 3 of basic training in 1987, the Amy decided I needed to take the DLAB test. Why, I do not know. All I know is that it was full of authentic gibberish. I’m fluent in authentic frontier gibberish (western dialect), but this was a new frontier in gibberish.
A most efficient way to order a liter of doppelbock and a schnitzel
Ummmmmmmm … schnitzel und Binding bier …
Yeah, 16 weeks is aimed at getting a 1/1 or so. Not too, bad, but like you said, better follow it up with daily enhancement to get anywhere.
Happy to say, I think my languages are hanging on pretty good, 10 years after retirement 😉
CTIC(SG) (Ret)
Jorge, why the (SG)?
I thought you qualified?
Qualified, but not a sub rating. There is always a huge fight whether it’s SS or SG for us.
Oh, ffs.
Green = Army Special Forces
Black = Army Rangers
Maroon = Army Airborne
How hard is that? Leave the shit alone. If you want it then earn the fucking thing.
Agreed. Everyone wants a trophy these days. Fuck em
Just saying I was pissed when I lost my black tanker’s beret in ‘79.
Tankers around the world wear black berets.
Still pissed.
I have to say that the E6 sporting the patch in that picture looks like he’s sporting a meat-gazer’s grin.
Yep, you would know! You seem to be well versed on all of the homosexual tendencies. From the toe-tapper references to the specific locations of homosexual activity, you have it down pat. How are you so informed?
Concentrate on the issue of this thread; don’t turn everything in to homosexuality.
Peter, you seem to have some anger issues. May I be the first to offer you a blankie and a nice hot cup of shut the fuck up? No need to lash out.
Peter, will you take a deep breath and CEASE FIRE on being such a tightass? I’m from the Old School which believes that the Black Beret is a piece of headgear that should have stayed RANGERS ONLY but became an “Everyone gets a trophy” item during The Clinton Curse with Shinseki being their PC Installation Apparatus. And yeah, that NCO looks like a meat-gazing desk jockey of a REMF who played politics to get where he’s at.
Chill out, Francis…
I just have to ask WHO DIED and made YOU the CSM of the Universe?
I have no idea what is going on with the beret- could be somebody doing their own thing, could be a serious proposal. I noticed the SFAB soldier that posted earlier didn’t actually claim that it was official headgear. SFABs are a major Army initiative- Scott Jackson didn’t just dream it up and sell it to the Army. They are a response to DoD requirements placed on the Army. FID is a SOF core activity, it is not exclusively a SOF or SF mission. Conventional forces have actually shared the lions share of the FID mission for several years now, and that does not look to change any time soon. this goes back to a decision SOCOM made back in 2007 or so. MNFI and MNSTCI needed combat advicors for the new Iraqi Army, so they naturally looked to the CJSOTF, where I was working as a lowly major. SOCCENT pushed back hard, and the final determination was that the CJSOTF would only work with Iraqi SOF- the National Counter Terror Force and the Commando battalions. The Army and Marines would train the Iraqi Army. Thus the MiTTs were born- essentially ersatz ODAs made up of officers and senior NCOs SFAB is a continuation of that concept. There simply isn’t enough SF or SOF of any flavor to do all the FID missions out there. Remember, this is beyond small units, we are talking about advising an ally in how to organize, train, and equip their Army, then advise them in combat. This is really just the latest iteration of the idea. Initially, each division in Iraq was told to stand up MITTs. Then we had the Iraqi Advisory Group and the CoIN Academy at Riley, then we had the Advise and Assist brigades. The SFABs will be sort of like the AWG and REF- conventional units with unusual missions. They won’t be SOF, but we do want good people and we want to be able to develop them over the years. There is actually an SFAB selection and assessment course, and the unit has a unique organization- basically a… Read more »
Thanks for the education and insider’s POV.
I get the feeling you were (another) one of the guys watching and re-watching ISIS mass execution videos looking for Iraqi CDO patches and hoping you didn’t see any more.
Were I ever to meet a certain former CiC face-to-face, the assault charges would be worth the reckoning in the name of a lot of slaughtered Iraqi Commandos, in my book.
One evening after an extraordinarily frustrating day and a few illicit cocktails in Balad, an actual cool guy colleague of mine (I was an MI guy) wearily said, “do you ever wonder if we are just training the new Shia Death Squads?”
Well, we were, sorta.
BUT!!!!
The Shi’a dominated ISOF Brigade (AKA Golden Brigade, AKA Dirty Brigade) were the only guys that fought, and they are essentially the reason there is an Iraq and not a Caliphate in Iraq today. Check out this article:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/on-the-front-lines-of-the-fight-with-isis?utm_term=.lgyLwelX4l#.ntYpQlnJ4n
I know, it’s Buzzfeed, it still…
Buzzfeed or not, it still contains some accurate statements and reporting.
I know. I’m going at least part way to hell with some colleagues, and wouldn’t change a thing.
This raises the question of just how much of this we are doing, and why?
So, six brigades of 500 senior NCOs and officers each. Minimum. Not counting the junior EM and Os who will clean up after them.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=sfab&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Didn’t I read or hear something about the Army claiming to be short of personnel (particularly leaders) and funds?
This is a problem with no easy solutions. The current font and the most likely next fight calls for SFABs. Korea and Europe call for actual BCTs, led by the very people we need to make SFABs.
The Army faces this dilemma constantly- want to have a premier fighting force? Put your best and brightest NCOs and officers in line units. Want your future Army to be strong? Put those same guys in recruiting, Drill Sergeant, and ROTC billets.
Now we are adding SFABs to the mix.
Have tried to just ignore this debate because my dogs aren’t really interested in arguing over headgear.
But seriously? One’s manliness is defined by the color of a beret? Perhaps the caliber of one’s weapon I could understand, maybe. But a beret, of all things?
No. Just NO. Not sure I even want to understand.
Let’s just put the blame for this beret silliness squarely on the shoulders of the one person who should bear it:
Staff Sergeant Barry Sadler.
You may think I’m joking but I’m not. If it wasn’t for that stupid song, we would not have this notion of an item of headgear being a qualification badge.
Back in the day when I was single and had time to read, someone in my unit turned me on to this book series, Casca: The Eternal Mercenary, written by Mr Barry Sadler.
It was a fascinating journed, pre or just begining internet while i called dozens of book shops and stores around my AO loking for old paperback copies. I spent a few years and had a good 20-somethin g of the 35 in the series. after reading all I could lay my hands on, when I moved yet once again, i sold them back to another used book store for $25 or $30 and thought someone else may enjoy the journey.
Good read.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/series/casca/38752/
I read each and every one of them in college, and was actually stationed with his son Thor (not making that up) at Ft Campbell.
And there’s this:
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/10/30/army-chief-dispels-rumors-misconceptions-about-sfab-berets-tabs/