Leah Libresco: I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise.

| October 4, 2017

Somehow an opinion piece from Leah Libresco made it into the pages of the Washington Post. It was entitled; I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise. Libresco used to write for the Huffington Post but apparently, she’s had a conversion;

Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.

Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns.

She talks about her revelation that 66% of gun deaths in the country were suicides and 20% were gang-related or the result of street violence – young men killed by other young men.

And the last notable group of similar deaths was the 1,700 women murdered per year, usually as the result of domestic violence. Far more people were killed in these ways than in mass-shooting incidents, but few of the popularly floated policies were tailored to serve them.

After looking at the actual crime statistics, she found that proposed gun control laws weren’t targeted at the actual gun violence. I could have told her that without the math, but at least she looked at the causes of gun violence without the typical hysterical emotion of the Brady crowd and the Giffords bunch.

When I looked at the other oft-praised policies, I found out that no gun owner walks into the store to buy an “assault weapon.” It’s an invented classification that includes any semi-automatic that has two or more features, such as a bayonet mount, a rocket-propelled grenade-launcher mount, a folding stock or a pistol grip. But guns are modular, and any hobbyist can easily add these features at home, just as if they were snapping together Legos.

As for silencers — they deserve that name only in movies, where they reduce gunfire to a soft puick puick. In real life, silencers limit hearing damage for shooters but don’t make gunfire dangerously quiet. An AR-15 with a silencer is about as loud as a jackhammer. Magazine limits were a little more promising, but a practiced shooter could still change magazines so fast as to make the limit meaningless.

So, Ms Libresco’s solution to gun violence is a more focused look at the causes, rather then the more popular emotional knee-jerk reactions to feelings;

I found the most hope in more narrowly tailored interventions. Potential suicide victims, women menaced by their abusive partners and kids swept up in street vendettas are all in danger from guns, but they each require different protections.

Older men, who make up the largest share of gun suicides, need better access to people who could care for them and get them help. Women endangered by specific men need to be prioritized by police, who can enforce restraining orders prohibiting these men from buying and owning guns. Younger men at risk of violence need to be identified before they take a life or lose theirs and to be connected to mentors who can help them de-escalate conflicts.

As always with articles in the Post that actually make sense, you should stay out of the comments, most Post readers can’t summon the intestinal fortitude to read past the headline and their comments reflect it.

Category: Guns

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Hondo

Sounds to me like we have a true rarity here: a liberal who can think for themselves.

Kudos, lass, for having the guts to change your mind.

HMCS(FMF) ret

But… the libtards will ridicule her for finding out the truth and ostracize her for it.

The Other Whitey

How long do you suppose she’ll still be a liberal?

Mason

I’ll wager she’s already been called a Nazi by her former comrades.

Mick

‘…her former comrades.’

I see what you did there.

Well played!

Mike

Not so well. Comrades is an almost universal term among Soldiers. Bet you weren’t aware that VFW members address one another as “Comrade”.

Tom Huxton

She will be accused of being a closet Republican or Bernie convert.

“Gun Nut” has a new meaning.

Graybeard

One commentator already accused her of being bought off by the gun lobby.

meh

Graybeard

There is hope for reasonable conversation, when one is honest about facts.

DOUGout

Honesty. In the WaPo.
I’m going to buy a lotto ticket right now.
And check for a blue moon.
DOUG out

AW1Ed

All well and good, but she missed the flip side- how often firearms are used to stop crime.

“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/#ixzz4uXseYQon

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1

Weekend Warrior in Texas

Is there a way to track how many crimes would have been averted, had the victim been armed? What would be the stats comparing home invasions with unarmed victims vs home invasions thwarted by armed victims? I am sure the info is out there, and I might look it up if I do not get pulled down the rabbit hole again.

Graybeard

WWnTX – the problem comes in counting the number of times an event did not occur when one is unable to determine that it might have occurred.

It’s hard to count the cows you never had, but might’ve.

Weekend Warrior in Texas

My first question is vague. What I was going for was the comparison between crimes reported vs crimes that were deterred (&reported). I would narrow down my query to home invasions where victims were simply victims, and home invasions where the victim successfully repelled the perps through use of firearms (or other violence). As Hondo states, it probably goes into the “who gives a shit” file until it can be used to link other events.

Hondo

Don’t bet on being able to find the data. It may well not exist or may be sadly incomplete.

Federal crime statistics include data reported by local PDs on exactly that: crimes. If an honest person uses a firearm to prevent a crime, does not himself/herself commit a crime in the process, and the perp gets away I’d guess that there’s a damn good chance that info is not specifically tracked in either local PD or Federal crime stats. I’d guess it stays in the open/cold case files instead.

Additionally, local PDs have a vested interest in tracking stats on and reporting as small a number of crimes as possible. Tracking the data and reporting same costs time and money. And a large number of reported crimes is bad PR for their town.

David

Estimates vary between 600,00 and 3,000,000 times annualy. It is difficult to gauge because often the mere sight of a gun discourages the would-be lawbreaker and I would guess encourage him/her to unass the AO ASAP.

Fyrfighter

Overall, it sounds like she’s come to see the light, though i’m still trying to figure out what a “rocket-propelled grenade-launcher mount” is, and where I can get one…Lol

Mick

Oh, that’s easy.

You can find the ‘rocket-propelled grenade-launcher mounts’ right next to the ‘flash processors’, the ‘large clips that hold lots of bullets’, the ‘things that go up at the back’, and the ‘little knobby thing that the knife hooks on to on the front’ at all of the evil gun stores that no libotard gun control moonbat has ever actually set foot in.

AW1Ed

I think she means the 37mm flare launchers one can purchase to complete that Tommy Tactical looking M-Forgery.

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

Hey Mick. When I was working for Brink’s, My partner and I were in an elevator after making a delivery when one of the passengers looked at my duty belt and asked what the little pouch was on the belt. It was the .38 cal. speed loader so I pulled it out with my fingers covering the 6 rounds and told him that it was a mini grenade launcher that you would stick on the end of the barrel and you could fire all 6 at once. The guy actually believed me. At the time I carried a K frame S&W M 10 with the new bull barrel. I also carried one of the little gadgets that you would hold in the palm of your hand and when squeezed it made a passing gas sound. Great on elevators. i was the king of practical jokes at the time there but that’s another story.

The Other Whitey

It’s amazing some of the shit some people will believe. I once had a member of the local FireSafe Council in my home town try to chew my ass over a prescribed burn a 15 miles away that “might scare people.” I pointed out to her that it had been announced for days in advance on all local TV and radio stations, the area’s major newspaper, several small local papers, on our PIO’s website, on the department’s twitter feed (apparently we have one), and on very large and very visible signs (including billboards) on the freeway and surrounding roads.

Her reply: “Well, you should make the smoke a different color so people will know!” After taking the moment needed to process the magnitude of the stupidity I’d just been hit with, I told her, “Yes, Ma’am, when modern science comes up with a way to do that, I assure you we will implement it immediately.”

In fairness to the other members of the FireSafe Council, they all gave an unsubtle “Dear Jesus, not again!” look as soon as she opened her mouth.

Sparks

Sorry TOW, I hit Report instead of reply. Sorry Jonn.

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

How about when they want to know how much oxygen the 4.5 Scott air pacs hold or why do you break the windows, but that is changing with the fire flow path studies they are doing with the old and the new tooth pick construction homes.

RGR 4-78

I guess you could have thrown a bunch of old tires in the brush, that would have made a different color for her.

11B-Mailclerk

Black Smoke Matters!

Sparks

“Well, you should make the smoke a different color so people will know!”

I did that in 1973. Somehow a hot LZ smoke grenade made its way home with me years earlier and on July 4th I popped it in the driveway. At that time fireworks were legal in the city limits and you could barely hear yourself for the noise and had to keep one eye closed for night vision. Anyway, in a matter of a few moments I hear sirens and it’s the Fire Department. Fortunately, the chief responder was a vet as well and looked at the now cold grenade and said, “Well, that can’t hurt us anymore”. Next year I find a (don’t know where it came from) M159 Ground White Star Cluster Illumination flare. When everyone in the neighborhood was popping their cheap shit, I set it off. The neighborhood lit up like Ebbets Field. Just as I had hoped with no wind, the chute drifted it slowly down in my own backyard where it burned a grass patch, which I knew it would. Everyone else stopped shooting their bottle rockets. Good times, good times.

The Other Whitey

Remember the “shoulder thing that goes up?” Yes, California has banned the Predator. I guess now we don’t need to get to da choppa.

The Other Whitey

I dunno…but it sounds fun!

Eden

Kudos to her!

Martinjmpr

Hey, does anyone know where I can get one of them “rocket propelled grenade launchers” for my Winchester Model 70 deer rifle? 😉

The Other Whitey

How about one for my Lee-Enfield?

The Other Whitey

But is it rocket-propelled? That’s the important thing.

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

anyone remember when the Brit Lee Enfields were selling for around 12 bucks in Macy’s back in the late fifties.

UpNorth

My dad bought me my first deer rifle, an Argentine Mauser in 7.65mm. He paid all of $25.00 for it in 1965.
I still have it, each of my sons killed their first buck with it, and it will still drive tacks at 100 yards.

Ex-PH2

She’s right and I hope some of the less narrow-minded liberals will listen to her. She at least did due diligence.

The hysterics about how guns make their way into a city like Chicago has notched down, after this report of the arrest of two men responsible for stealing 111 Ruger firearms from a freight car parked overnight on the South Side of Chicago. The local news reported last night that to date, 19 of those stolen guns have been used in crimes and confiscated. Where did the rest go?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2-men-charged-after-111-guns-stolen-from-south-side-rail-yard/

Wilted Willy

Kudos to this lady for actually looking at the facts for a change! I really would like to see more stats on how many lives are saved by the use of firearms?

A Proud Infidel®™

ANYONE know where I could find one of them-thar rocket propelled grenade doohickeys myself? Not a bad article, a good start but yes, she could have delved into how guns in the hands of the right people prevent crimes!

Weekend Warrior in Texas

She came to some good conclusions, and she did leave out some things. In light of the recent event in Las Vegas, I have read some comments about if the perp had used a silencer, the concert goers would not have heard to shots…blah blah blah. I cannot say what his reasons were for not using a silencer, but I would bet it was not because silencers are illegal or possession & use of them are heavily regulated by the federal government. Imagine this guy thinking,” I am going to bring a load of guns up to this room to prepare to kill as many people as I can by shooting into a crowd, but I do not want to get in trouble for using a silencer”.

Doc Savage

Because those idiots in Hollywood have convinced anyone unfamiliar with firearms or suppressors, that a “silencer” will make a 50 BMG sound like a wet chicken fart.

AW1Ed

My favorite is a can on the barrel of a wheel gun. Very few revolvers actually seal the cylinder to the barrel.

The Other Whitey

To my knowledge, there’s just the old Nagant 1895, and a new Russian wheelgun that fires proprietary captive-piston rounds. The latter has evidently been the last thing a few ISIS muj never heard.

Graybeard

Sounds like a story behind that last sentence, TOW. Can it be told (or summarized)?

The Other Whitey

No story that I have details on, just a blurb on the website detailing the gun in question that says spetznaz have been trying them out in Syria.

Graybeard

Where is Tom Clancy when you need him?

David

Dead as a boot.

SFC D

That’s what Tom wants you to believe… 😉

Jeff LPH 3, 63-66

AW1. Thats the forcing cone the face of the cylinder is a few mm’s from.

Dave Hardin

My usual sarcasm on the issue will be held back for the moment.

In my humble opinion, this latest monster methodically planned what he was doing. I see a man that deliberately and recently went out and purchased a bunch of firearms for the purpose of doing something that would force the hand of those who protect the Second Amendment.

Not one proposed gun control law ever conceived, past or present, would have prevented this incident. A crazed man with access to large amounts of money will always be able to do this kind of horror. If there was not one gun anywhere in this country he simply would have got them elsewhere.

In that twisted mind of his, he believed this act would destroy the Second Amendment, vilify the NRA, and case irreparable damage to Conservatives.

Sad fact is, this happens in Chicago every week.

David

“In that twisted” etc. – can you provide some justification for that thought? I am curious, most sources I have read have said there is no clue what the hell he had going through his mind (other than that fianl bullet.)

Tom Huxton

He just watched too many hours of Walking Dead and snapped somehow.

DOUGout

Really to soon to tell, but this seems too achingly plausible. “THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS” is the central tenant of the ‘Progressive’ cause. Infamy is either enshrined or reluctantly accepted but accepted none the less. Alas.
DOUG out

Veritas Omnia Vincit

Indeed the horrible joke about Chicago is what do you call 50 murders in Chicago? July….

Graybeard

From heyjackass.com:

Week in Progress (10/1 – 10/7)
Shot & Killed: 5
Shot & Wounded: 27
Total Shot: 32
Total Homicides: 5
Final September Totals
Shot & Killed: 57
Shot & Wounded: 273
Total Shot: 330
Total Homicides: 57
Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 499
Shot & Wounded: 2403
Total Shot: 2902
Total Homicides: 536

Go read through the webpage.

The Other Whitey

I’d be curious to see the same stats on standings in Shitcago.

Graybeard

Those are Chicago numbers – or are you asking about something else and my obtuseness is interfering with my understanding?

The Other Whitey

Dammit, I typed “stabbings” and the phone autocorrupted. Sorry.

Graybeard

Gotcha.

I’d have to go double check the fine print at heyjackass, but I believe they track stabbings, but focus on shootings.

UpNorth

I think what you seek is in the “Total Homicides” category, though I do believe that that category encompasses stabbings, cars, strangulations and any method of homicide, other than shootings.

DOUGout

In the absence of a better explanation/speculation, I fear this may be the root of tragedy. When ends justify means any atrocity can be excused. IF this explanation is, in fact, the correct one our villain’s chief mistake will have been one of timing – for his purpose the last President, Mr. “Don’t-let-a-good-crisis-go-to-waste” Obama, would have shamelessly made much ‘better’ use of this outrage. DOUG out

Combat Historian

I hope this lady has a comportment and attitude made of steel, because she is about to be blacklisted as a proggy apostate and completely cut off and ostracized from the polite liberal society that once embraced her. The stomping she will receive from her former friends and colleagues will be harsh and epic; but I hope she will be able to survive this onslaught and continue with her research…

Graybeard

Looking at the comments, I would amend “she will receive” to “she is receiving”

I’m just hoping that she won’t do a walk-back. Reading the article, she still is not fond of guns or gun ownership, she just recognizes failed policy when she sees it.

The Other Whitey

Then she’s welcome to not arm herself. She and others may not, however, deny the rest of us the right to do so.

If they can ban the keeping and bearing of arms—an explicitly-enumerated constitutional right—maybe we should ban gay sex, which has no explicit protection in any law and is considered at best to be an implicit part of the freedom of association, which itself is not explicitly enumerated but rather a stretched derivation of the explicitly-enumerated right to peaceable assembly.

David

Believe I read that John Lott had a similar conversion… when he first started research he fully expected to find that guns were evil and never used for any legit reason. He is now considered one of the most pro-gun folks around and is frequently cited in pro-gun essays. The facts just do not support that gun control is all that successful.

Graybeard

And he, as well, has been the recipient of many ad hominem and straw-man attacks as a result of his publications.

SOP for the anti-gun groups.

David

It’s the modern keyboard warrior way: Don’t just disagree, vilify and degrade.

Graybeard

That tactic has been around since before Socrates. Socrates and Plato held low views of the Sophists just because of their use of these types of attacks.

Aristotle’s Ars Rhetorica and later the Rhetorica ad Herennium, at one time attributed to Cicero, both deal with the problem of these types of arguments as well.

Lies and the nature of lies do not change. Only the mouths out of which those lies come.

Eden

Interesting! I never knew that about him.

The Other Whitey

So Jimmy Kimmel apparently showed his ass blaming gun owners the other night, and giving Das Hildabeast a run for her money in terms of how many blatant falsehoods can be uttered in a single breath. I just got done watching Steven Crowder and Ben Shapiro tear strips off his fat ass.

Skippy

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death: • 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws. • 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified. • 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence. • 3% are accidental discharge deaths. So technically, “gun violence” is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation. • 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago • 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore • 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit • 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years) So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause. This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1. Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths. Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that… Read more »

David

Well written!

Skippy

I stole it 😁
But I did fact check it and the Data is accurate

Skippy

I blew some of the data but Hondo caught it

The Other Whitey

Speaking from my own experience in Fire/EMS (they’re the same thing in California, though some states split them up for reasons that never made sense to me) in southern California, I’ve always worked in areas that had high numbers of legally-owned firearms per capita, especially by this state’s standards. In 18 years, I have seen a grand total of three shootings.

One was a justified defensive shoot in which a homeowner put four .38 rounds into a home invader.

One was a “highly-trained” law enforcement officer who was carrying his “safe action” (whatever the hell that means) glock with a round in the chamber, and tried to draw with his booger hook on the bang switch, predictably resulting in a .40-caliber hole through his foot.

One was a negligent discharge by an inexplicably-armed hippy who blasted snake shot through the palm of his hand and peppered his hot wife across both kneecaps in an epically awe-inspiring feat of being a fucking retard.

That’s it. I’ve lost count of how many motorcyclists I’ve seen meet their end on a crotch rocket. Plenty of ODs. I’ve seen people die in plenty of ways, some predictable, some utterly senseless and undeserved. I try not to think about the kids I’ve found drowned in swimming pools—the only thing in my experience with a 100% fatality rate, which is why I will never, EVER have a goddamn swimming pool. But only three shooting incidents, with four injuries and zero fatalities. I guess they don’t want me to believe my own lying eyes, huh.

Graybeard

There you go being reasonable again, TOW.

Be careful or “they” will come take you to a re-education camp.

LC

I try not to think about the kids I’ve found drowned in swimming pools—the only thing in my experience with a 100% fatality rate, which is why I will never, EVER have a goddamn swimming pool.

I haven’t had your regrettable experiences here – I did have to save someone in the water once, but haven’t witnessed a drowning – but I actually find this pretty interesting. For me, I vastly prefer teaching kids to swim over avoiding pools – at some point you’re gonna be near water, and need to be safe. It’s like guns, but more common. A gun without a lock on it in a house with kids is dangerous. A pool without sufficient safeguards (fence, locks, etc) is also dangerous. Teaching people to respect and understand the dangerous things around them, rather than avoid them, seems better to me. Otherwise they’re going to encounter them at a time when you can’t help.

The Other Whitey

My kids swim. But I will never have a pool at the house, because every drowning I ever responded to had the same common denominators: the child knew how to swim, the pool was surrounded by a fence, the gate was locked, and the child was last seen just a few minutes prior nowhere near it. Each one ended with a dead child. I have never seen a kid survive a swimming pool drowning.

I have yet to see a child harmed by a firearm, probably because safeguards against it are inherently easier to implement and maintain. I know it happens, but it doesn’t happen very often, all things considered. Swimming pools claim far more children every year. As a father of three, this is something to which I give a lot of serious thought.

LC

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’m still not sure I agree with the approach, but it certainly gives me plenty to think about.

And looking things up, you’re right –
from the statistics I’ve seen, more kids die from gunshots each year than from pools… but those numbers are for gun deaths, not ‘accidental gun deaths’ of children. And it doesn’t take into account the number of families with guns vs. the number with pools. It certainly does appear, from the numbers, that pools are more dangerous in terms of accidents. I wonder how much of that is people respecting a gun and not respecting the inherent danger in a pool.

11B-Mailclerk

LC, I believe if you check the published stars, far more kids die in home pools than in home shootings.

Like order-of-magnitude more.

Home pools are -familiar-, thus they become death-traps. You take the kids to the public pool, there are all sorts of eyes on the kids. Anything not moving is -instantly- “odd”.

The home pool? No one is paying the slightest attention, when the little kid goes in to “rescue” the bug / get the lost ball, take the quick forbidden dip, etc…

Hours later, you hear the wail of a destroyed parent.

Query your local EMS. They will back up the comments by TOW.

But be warned. You -cannot- un-hear what they will say.

11B-Mailclerk

Published -stats-.

, not /

LC

Yeah, see above – I just looked up some numbers. Technically, far more kids die in shootings, but when you’re talking accidental deaths -as you’d have in a pool- then the pool deaths outnumber accidental shootings of kids.

I agree that pools are less ‘respected’ for the danger they hold than guns, but this gets towards biases on both sides, right? If you’re an idiot with your gun, you have a higher risk than someone who is aware it is a weapon and treats it accordingly. Someone who treats a pool similarly would, I’d think, also cut down on the potential risks. But, as TOW points out, it’s much easier to secure a gun than a pool.

All in all, I need to think about it, but I’d still be inclined to have a pool. At the end of the day, there are all sorts of risks we can’t account for -cancer, strokes, car accidents, etc.- and I’d rather my kids live a full life absent fear of all these rare chances than live in a bubble. But, again, I figure I’ll let TOW’s comment sit in my head for a bit first.

rgr769

Your stats on “kids” dying of gunshot wounds include anyone who died of a gunshot wound who was under 22, which includes many, many individiuals killed in the commission of crimes and gang related shootings. You will find included in those stats justifiable shootings of armed juveniles and young adults shot by police in self-defense.

LC

I’m not sure what you’re arguing here – my ‘stats’, for this comparison, were accidental deaths, and I already stated pools are, per household, more dangerous. I didn’t actual post numbers because the numbers aren’t clear – as this article shows, the CDC even admits the way they count is open to considerable error:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/09/new-cdc-data-understate-accidental-shooting-deaths-kids/95209084/

If you use the numbers from there, we’re talking roughly 77-141 deaths from accidental gunshots (for minors) to roughly 700 accidental drownings of children 14 and younger – so, probably a few more if we had numbers scaling it up to 18.

The numbers also get murkier once you start looking at injuries, where gun fatalities are only 1/5th of the actual shootings, and it also doesn’t take into account children accidentally actively killing other people, which doesn’t really seem likely with pools.

At the end of the day, for accidental deaths alone, yes, pools are more dangerous per household.

SFC D

“One was a negligent discharge by an inexplicably-armed hippy who blasted snake shot through the palm of his hand and peppered his hot wife across both kneecaps in an epically awe-inspiring feat of being a fucking retard.”

Sheer Fucking Poetry.

Eden

Totally an aside to TOW:

“Speaking from my own experience in Fire/EMS (they’re the same thing in California, though some states split them up for reasons that never made sense to me)”

I’m an EMT in one of those states. I have absolutely NO desire to be a firefighter, although I completely respect those who are. If I were required to be dual-qualified, it would have kept me from becoming an EMT. (There are no fire services that I know of here who will hire someone who is single-qualified as an EMT.) The vast majority of the calls my service runs in no way need a crew of firefighters. California may be different, with the high fire danger there.

The Other Whitey

There’s more engines than ambulances. We have a faster response time. Most fire department calls require some kind of EMS anyway. It’s very difficult, if not impossible, to get a fire job without at least an EMT card. Many municipal departments require medics only.

Private ambulance companies like AMR or Mercy provide ALS transport, but primary assessment and patient care is the engine company’s responsibility, as they will get there first 95% of the time, and many engines are equipped for ALS—so many, in fact, that we’re no longer using the “medic engine” designation for them, as they’re more common than BLS rigs. BLS ambulances in this state are generally hospital taxis for inter-facility transports; they almost never run an emergency call unless there’s some kind of resource drawdown going on, and even then, they don’t get utilized much.

The Other Whitey

I should add that most engine companies here run with 3 personnel, and some only have 2. A 4-0 staffed engine is a luxury.

Graybeard

I’ve not been EMT-B certified since the mid-80’s, but if I understand how TX currently does life, we have EMT-Bs on all the trucks just because an ambulance can be out on a call elsewhere.

AFAIK, an EMT does not have to be fire-fighter certified in TX, but many/most firefighters also have the EMT certifications.

What gets me is the folks who call an ambulance for a ride to the ER when they scraped their knee or something. Have to make the run, but then tell them to find other transportation. And the ambulance is OOS for that length of time.

Hondo

Actually, that works out to 0.00925+% of the US population.

Whoever wrote that originally screwed up the math – they appear to have moved the decimal point 2 positions the wrong way when converting a decimal fraction to a percentage. (30,000 / 324,059,091 = 0.0000925757+, which expressed as a percentage is 0.00925+% – not 0.000000925%.)

Skippy

My beef, I did the fact checking I screwed up…
it’s starting to look like the shooter up in my ole neck of the desert was a recent convert
To the religion of peace. No surprise their and was a BIG supporter of DNC and
Who would of thought GUN Control….
this is starting to get interesting Hondo
But not one surprise yet

Graybeard

Skippy – I’ve seen reports that a LEO suspects that the shooter may have been “radicalized,” yet no hard facts yet.

I have seen nothing in the way of hard facts on his political affiliation if any.

Do you have something different?

Skippy

I’m going through donor list as we speak or type, local news up there are and have reported a strong affiliation with local democratic candidates the problem I’m finding with this is so far no money trail to back up claims..
buddy up there said
They won’t rule out radical religious affiliations period….

The Other Whitey

So yet another mass-murderer appears to have been a flaming liberal. The only ones who will find this surprising will be the liberals who conveniently ignore all the other liberal-leaning mass-murderers.

Mick

Well everyone knows that those liberal-leaning mass-murderers wouldn’t find it necessary to repeatedly shoot large numbers of us ‘deplorables’ if we would simply stop saying things that provoke them and make them so angry.

Words from ‘Deplorables’ = Violence, so the libotards therefore have a right to defend themselves with physical violence.

Everyone knows that.

The Other Whitey

Yet they shudder to think of anyone defending themselves from actual physical violence. Ah, the hypocrisy…

Graybeard

Roger. Thanks for doing the legwork.

Ex-PH2

Everything I’ve seen in news reports locally says that the ‘conversion’ and ‘radicalization’ are gossip.

I’m more convinced the guy was a whack-job and not much else.

So can we please stop trying to outguess the LEP people who do this kind of digging for a living and let them have a say?

Skippy

I agree with you on this 100 percent
He is a lone wacko
I doubt there is any religious affiliation here there seems to be a involvement with politics but don’t
Know if that was a motive

Graybeard

Taking all the fun outta the “gossip game” again, ain’tcha?

Skippy

No gossip games Lol….
I’ve been busy telling ding-dongs on local threds that think there was
like 3 or 4 Shooters and there is some crazy conspiracy
to go fuck a donkey 😂😂😂😂
And get back on there meds
I know a few folks up there
And it seems he was definitely a odd ball… but I’ll stop at that
Some info will be coming out sooner then later on this clown
Ockham’s razor May be the he best answer for why he did it
It was planned but we’ll see here very soon
Thank all

Ex-PH2

Yes, I am. I am notorious with the wet-blanket thingy. It’s my way of allowing my sillier side to get loose without penalty once in a while.

SFC D

Ex, didn’t you know that the only people who gossip more than old ladies are old men? The ladies are gossiping about us, we gossip about everything!

Skippy

Where have you been

SFC D

Been an interesting summer. First a little adventure with prostate cancer, immediately followed by my employer suddenly losing a government contract. Never a dull moment at D’s Cantina!

Skippy

EX-PH did you get my e-mail ??

Ex-PH2

Oh, dear, I will check. I was deep in the throes of an S&R response until just now, when I ran out of ice tea.

Hondo

Don’t sweat it, man. Virtually everyone would have accepted the article’s math as correct if the other facts checked out.

FWIW: for better or worse, I’ve always had a head for numbers. If a number or calculation is “off”, sometimes I can sense that at a glance. I’m damned if I know how or why, and I can’t always do it.

Here, that percentage figure for some reason just seemed a bit off. I originally thought maybe they’d forgot to shift the decimal at all. So I pulled out the calc and ran the numbers myself – and found out they’d shifted it the wrong way, making the number 10,000 times smaller than the correct value.

It’s a damn easy mistake to make, and I’ve made some whoppers myself along those lines too. (smile)

ifcsguy

To those who have never used a slide rule, approximations are necessary in one’s head before trying to read an answer on the thing. Doing that it came out to around 0.0001. The slide rule would have narrowed it down to closer to the answer. These digital devices we all use now deprive us of some older useful tools.

Hondo

That could well be it – I’ve used a slide rule before.

Graybeard

I still think we need to teach students to use a slip stick.

Ex-PH2

Graybeard, students need to be taught to use the following:
brains
slide rules
longhand writing
dictionaries
That’s a short list.

Graybeard

I concur.

Fortunately there are private schools and homeschools where that is happening.

(Full disclosure, we homeschooled our kids, have grandkids in homeschool, and I taught for a while in a private school.)

Ret_25X

In truth, “gun control” is really just a go at monopolizing the means of force in the hands of the government.

Let’s ask the victims of the holocaust, holodomore, Mao’s policies, etc how that works…

Oh..wait…they’re all dead!

Sparks

Once in a very great while, a liberal person puts down the rhetoric long enough to look at the facts. Doesn’t happen often and they are vilified when they do. But, good for this lady for speaking about the truth she found.

Docduracoat

Why is everyone going through all the logic against gun control?
Gun control has NOTHING to do with crime prevention
It is about control
Armed citizens cannot be controlled like unarmed serfs can be controlled
Terrorism and crime have nothing to do with gun control

Ret_25X

Well, they do if your goal is not an end to violence, but a monopoly on it….

there are three steps to the establishment of gulag America:

1. demonize the segment you desire to target
2. dehumanize: once demonized, dehumanize them
3. destroy the targeted population: once they are not longer viewed as human, any crime committed against them is justified

Those doing this never understand that they will go first, but there it is.

This is why it is linked politically…

NHSparky

I’m still waiting for that ammo some ditz in NY State claimed would cook a deer in flight.

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

Kinda like:

Hate what vodka does to me, but I love the way it makes me feel …

Like that?

I don’ know, so confused.

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