NFL conflict – Don’t let media distract from original issue
There’s no question that President Trump tossed a live grenade into the NFL’s locker room during his Alabama speech the other night and it has set off countless secondary explosions throughout the league and across the media spectrum. Annoyingly there is endless jabbering by pundits about the sacredness of an American right of free speech which has, in fact, never existed. If you think your boss can’t fire you for saying or doing anything he finds offensive, then you need a lesson in life, cupcake. Just try it. My wife lost her job as a legal assistant at a very Democrat law firm because she dared to park our SUV, bearing my “Not Fonda Kerry” bumper stickers, in the firm’s very Kerry parking garage.
The only guarantee of free speech Americans have is their constitutionally warranted protection against government suppression of freedom of self-expression. Note that government because that is the critical term in this NFL brouhaha as President Trump well knows and well-expressed with his, “Fire the son of a bitch,” exhortation to NFL owners. As my wife learned the hard way, self-expression at your place of employment is a very fragile concept, entirely dependent upon the breadth and depth of your employer’s level of tolerance. So can we please can the discussion about the NFL players’ right to free speech and self-expression and get to the subject of their protests which is the real issue?
Too many in the left wing media want to play down the fact that this entire mess began with one player, Colin Kaepernick, radicalized by his lefty girlfriend, demonstrating his support for the Black Lives Matter campaign against America’s police forces. Now I can understand how young men in their physical prime could find this a sympathetic view, as many of them too frequently find themselves in direct conflict with America’s police forces due to alcohol and testosterone fueled incidents of physical violence, often involving their wives or girlfriends. However, the more important consideration is that BLM’s campaign against cops is not one that finds wide favor among the citizenry at large, the folks who support the NFL with their fandom.
And that, folks, is the issue here. The owners and the NFL commissioner chose to permit these demonstrations against America’s police forces to continue in spite of the fact that it was further alienating a large segment of a fan base already disaffected by the injection of leftist political views into media coverage of their game broadcasts. If you think I’m exaggerating on alienation, just Google up some images of the recent SF 49R’s-LA Ram’s game and look at all those empty seats. This may be the worst case of no-shows to date, but it’s a growing occurrence at other stadiums and television viewership is down as well. The American people are speaking, telling those defiant football players that America supports law enforcement, not black criminality, and to its ultimate peril, the NFL owners and management are ignoring them, even upping the ante after the president’s words. Readers need to keep this truth in mind as the liberal media, and that includes sports media, do their best to convince you this is some high-minded civil rights protest.
Somehow, I thought folks like Jerry Jones, Robert Craft and Tom Benson understood their fans better than this. By the way Jerry, I was conflicted about going to Ol Heidelburg for dinner tonight when we stop in Huntsville, Alabama, rather than eating in the room and watching your Cowboys. I do believe a Jaeger Schnitzel and some cold Bitburger Pilsners will probably win this contest and, who knows, maybe even start a trend.
Category: Politics
Professional athletes are nothing more than trained circus seals that run fast & jump high. I have zero fucks to give about their opinions or what they do outside the lines.
That said I commend OT Alejandro Villanueva as the only Steeler with the cajones to stand for anthem.
Rangers lead the way, right.
I don’t watch professional sports, but I understand that the entire Houston Texans team stood for the National Anthem as well.
Given their somewhat dismal historic record, alienating the fans is probably ‘way down on their priority list. Fans are about all they have going for them.
Well, JJ is a class act, as well. The best PR the Texans have.
Given the aftermath of Harvey, I ‘spect none of the Texans players has any gripes about some illusion of oppression in the Houston area.
His QB is regretting their decision, even after CPT Villanueva help a presser to say that “he screwed up”.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/09/25/alejandro-villanueva-steelers-national-anthem-protest/stories/201709250175
I’m guessing that “Coach” Tomlin was all asshurt over AV standing and being seen for the National Anthem.
Fuck Tomlin… Fuck the Steelers
Yeah, Tomlin threw Villanueva under the bus, not the other way around. I imagine the conversation went something like, Tomlin, “Nice job you got there, be a shame if something happened to it. You know, like a chop block on your knee at practice, or you just get cut”.
I haven’t watched a single minute of any kind of football in three years. You turn a sport (or anything else) into a political SJW Theater and I say FUCK YOU and bye-bye…
I already was meh about foolsball, this crap just cemented my position.
These arn’t men…
There are some stand outs from the crowd, some patriotic players, but the bulk are snot nosed children.
I’m going to do my best to stand up to those who won’t by boycotting sponsors of the league. I’ll vote with my feet and take my business to companies that love the challenge and RESPONSIBILITY freedom guarantees.
BTW, as of this morning USAA still thinks NFL sponsorship is a good thing, if you disagree please let them know.
Pro-football has been the ONLY professional “sport” I have followed for many years. Modern baseball players who can’t hit .200 make more in a single year than Ernie BANKS made in his record breaking career. Pro basket ball is a game almost devoid of rules. Hockey? Tennis? Golf? Never had time for them.
I am so committed to the First Amendment that I support flag burning as a legitimate exercise of free speech. I reserve, however my own First Amendment right to save the flag from those who would burn it. I’m cutting the NFL loose right now. They might not miss me but it will do both my heart and my blood pressure good. DOUG out
Watching players continue to stretch, continue their conversations, and sit on their asses during the National Anthem made me sick to my stomach. I was willing to over look the few clowns that did this week one, but after this weekend, I am completely done wit the NFL. I lost 4 very close brothers in combat and I feel this is a direct spitting on their and others ultimate sacrifice. Adios NFL
I haven’t watched an NFL game for 35 years, but I am laughing my ass off at all the hollow moralizing about the game now because of some clowns acting like the clowns they’ve always been.
NFL fans don’t have any sense of morality, NFL fans like wife beaters, guys who commit assault, they even like people who shoot other people in night clubs. NFL fans don’t even mind that the NFL slowly kills its employees with serious brain injuries as long as the NFL delivers a product that the fans can enjoy each week.
The fans are responsible for all of this. The fans teach the NFL what they, the fans, will accept and so far the fans don’t even mind people killing dogs for fun and profit.
Stop blaming the players and the owners and start blaming yourself if you’ve been a fan for the last thirty years because you’ve been teaching the NFL that you really don’t give a fuck what they do as long as they deliver your weekly dose of games to your living room.
VOV, I read this early this morning as I was about to leave on a 400 mile drive so I didn’t have time to respond until I got checked into my room. When I read it this morning my first reaction was that’s way too harsh an assessment of your fellow readers just because they happen to take some time from their busy lives to relax watching diversionary activities like professional sports. To paint them all with such a broad brush as this:
“NFL fans don’t have any sense of morality, NFL fans like wife beaters, guys who commit assault, they even like people who shoot other people in night clubs. NFL fans don’t even mind that the NFL slowly kills its employees with serious brain injuries as long as the NFL delivers a product that the fans can enjoy each week,”
is not something I would expect to hear from our pal, VOV. That was a rant, buddy, not a discussion of the issue at hand and we’re all used to hearing more thoughtful commentary from you.
Just sayin’…
No, “Poe,” read VOV’s comment over again. Because he’s right, you know. They sell, we buy. We buy, they sell. It’s the fundamental truth of all commerce: supply & demand. The only way to possibly effect the market is to reject their product the NFL offers.
DOUG out
I see the truth in your remarks: It’s all about supply and demand. So I just uninstalled the NFL app from my phone (as well as the ESPN and CBS apps). I can’t undo the past five decades of support but I will stop “buying” the NFL’s rubbish. And stop wearing my Cowboys hat.
Thanks for the wakeup call.
DOUG out
I tried to uninstall that app from my phone, but it’s like a damn virus, I can remove part of it, but the core stays there, taking up space…
About a year ago, I dropped all the sports channels on my satellite tv package…I was just plain tired of the low class thuggery on vivid display…dreadful role models for our already challenged youth. if I could reasonably hit the owners in the pocketbook more, I would do it
Yet another thing Bobby Boucher’s momma was right about, foolsball. Let the overpaid children act like the a-holes they are, just don’t spend money on their games or their merchandise. Their choice to do what they did on Gold Star Mothers’ Day makes me want to wretch, but then I remember that they made a choice let them bear the consequences of that choice. As it is now I watch 1 football game a year and it ain’t anything to do with the NFL, don’t see that changing any time soon. To the players who think they’re heroes for playing a game, do what Pat Tillman and a few others did and get a REAL education and you’ll even get to see some real honest to God heroes in action hint, they don’t wear shoulder pads and cleats (but they do wear helmets).
But who remembers Gold Star Mothers’ Day…
We remember and that’s seems to be the point. A lack of reverence and decorum is the issue here, no one on the other side seems to understand.
I think the President should order all military activities associated with the NFl to end. No more military honor guard, fly by’s, cannon shots, etc. If these bastards disrespect our country, we should not have anything to do with them. And I hope the local police would also pull their activities as well.
I second that.
Call the vote!! All in favor, signify in the usual way.
Aye.
Used to drive me apeshit when I did color guards for NFL/NBA games to see the players doing their ‘thang’ during the presentation of the colors. At the same time, I did some pre-race for NASCAR races. 100K + and you could hear a friggen pin DROP when we marched on the colors.
Aye, Nascar and NHL get my attention.. they don’t do this kinda crap!
I third that.
Here-Here
@ A PROUD INFIDEL:
Thank you for referring me to that movie, “PURPLE SUNSET”, which I just now finished watching!
It’s a very unique and interesting production, since all of the characters are speaking in their own individual languages, i.e., Russian, Chinese, and Japanese.
So, yes, turning on the English subtitles is absolutely necessary.
I saw that movie, it was excellent!
Yup. Mattis should hold a pres conference in which he announces the DoD will stop advertising with such scumfucks.
Especially since they make the DoD pay for some of those activities.
Pay a tax-exempt organization for support from DoD…..
Nothing quite like a bunch of millionaires who get paid big bucks for prancing around in pads and tights whining about how disadvantaged they are.
Yeah, whatever.
(Are these the same owners/league who would not let the players in Dallas wear something to honor the 5 officers killed there?)
Yep.
Roger Goodell was the COCKSUCKER behind that decision…
It’s the same league and owners who found kneeling an excuse to get rid of Tim Tebow. Says lots about the hypocrisy involved in this whole thing.
I started a petition at whitehouse.gov:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/end-all-military-activities-associated-any-professional-sporting-event-disrespects-national-anthem
Signed. Thanks.
Signed…and forwarded
Signed.
Someone has screwed your petition, CDR; better check it out.
Signed, sealed, and delivered!
I was a fair weather fan of the NFL but after this, FUCK THEM.
Well, since I don’t have a TV and don’t want one, I do not miss so-called “pro” football.
I’d be impressed if any of those clowns protesting went into the poor neighborhoods and did something worthwhile, like beat the crap out of the gangbangers and remove the those trash permanently. But they don’t, do they? Well, then, what good are they?
There isn’t a goddamn thing proffessional about these players. They are just like hollywood types. Paid big bucks to be big babies.
Before Trump’s statements on this and the Warriors’ White House visit, the protesters were seen as radicals and almost a fringe group.
Trump’s actions brought legitimacy to their protests. It was a topic on most NFL shows, news broadcasts, as well as pre and post game interviews.
What was a relatively small group of people has now been galvanized and given new energy by the Trump.
No, he called out a bunch of pompous overpaid idiots who get paid millions to play a game out on their shit. NO football in my house this year. I actually plan out a couple long weekends over football games. Not this year or ever again unless they get their shit together. How dare America provide a predominantly black player sport the ability to be millionaires and “hero” status. Shame on America and the flag. Didn’t you get the memo. If your lighter skinned, your a racist and your parents are racists for having you, your wifes a racist for marrying you and America is racists for letting you live here.
“Trump’s actions brought legitimacy to their protests.”
Hardly. Numbers don’t add validity to a false narrative.
“Trump’s actions brought legitimacy to their protests”
I disagree. Trumps actions put the spotlight on the elephant in the room.
Now it is going to boil until it is reduced to the crux of it. Then we can get back to playing sports without the politics.
Remember how much fun that was?
Trumps actions put the spotlight on the elephant in the room.
I guess it depends on what you think that elephant is.
To the players, it is what they see as a division in society based on race.
We can argue all day whether that division exists. But it doesn’t help and brings legitimacy to the issue when Trumps tweets continue to widen the alleged divide. Heck, even the golden boy Tom Brady who supported Trump called Trumps comments “divisive.”
Prior to Trump’s tweets (and this includes the childish rant against the Golden State Warriors) this was a minor issue. Now you have entire teams, coaches and owners pointing to Trump as evidence of the tone deafness of some people on the issue.
I disagree with the protests. I really do. (The argument that people lose a voice because they are paid a lot of money for a sport is equally ridiculous.)
Trump could have and should have taken the high road. He could have worked behind the scenes with the NFL or invited a group of team representatives to the White House to discuss the issue. Those actions would have been Presidential in nature and inclusive by design.
Instead, what we end up with is a situation where the players are wrong for protesting and a President acting decidedly un-Presidential.
There is no logic in saying “because the players are wrong Trump is right.” This is one of those cases where both sides are wrong on the methods they use to confront an issue.
Please provide this SOP on how a President is supposed to act. it seems a lot of former Presidents could have used this, but Trump is the only one that needs it,Right?
…..but Trump is the only one that needs it,Right?
Thank you for setting up a ridiculous strawman argument. I have not advocated that “Trump is the only one who needs it.” That others have needed it Your position is akin to the second grade excuse of “he did it too!”
You won’t find me defending the stupid and childish things other Presidents have done and I see no reason to defend them just because it is Trump.
As for how a President is “supposed to act,” perhaps the answer can be found in the definition of “presidential:”
Having a bearing or demeanor befitting a president; dignified and confident.
Does that help?
Your trying to sound neutral, your despise for Trump shines through. Strawman, strawman , yeah that’s as good as ‘Trumps action brought legitimacy’ get over yourself, you are not as smart as you think you sound. If so Goodells inaction brought legitimacy…… straw man strawman…. Obama called cops stupid… straw man … Obama sided with a thug gang banger… straw
Man… Clinton got a blow job… straw man… killeray could care less so what does it matter…. straw man… trump is in the wrong and not presidential, well I call straw man on you. At least he took a stand.
“The division in society based on race”, as you said, is by and large a product of the black race. Not all of these players bootstrapped from the ghetto by a long shot. Black criminality, black on black killing then blamed on white society and the police, black’s lack of family structure and then add to it BLM which says, it’s all the white people’s fault, are the problems and are the same problems never addressed by black leaders like slippery Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, not any of these kneeling millionaires. So in my opinion, that dog won’t hunt.
So we agree that there is a “division in society based on race.” That’s a good starting point.
The question then becomes “what do we do to change it? What do we do to fix that division?”
One way to guarantee that it won’t be fixed is to not listen to concerns on both sides of the divide. “Shut up and play,” doesn’t help anything.
Whether it is the players or Trump acting like petulant children doesn’t make things better.
One thing that will be necessary to change things is an attitude adjustment.
Not just among those who create and profit (yes, they profit) from the so-called “racial divide.” Those people need to get their collective heads out of their collective asses as quickly as possible, because the road they are traveling has no good destinations. Their attitudes are, by and large, the primary reason for the ongoing nonsense.
Also, those who criticize and condemn the protestors need to look a bit into themselves as well. True, the protestors are doing little to actually help the situation – after all, if the primary purpose of the protest was to call attention, it worked a long time ago and you can stop that part of it now. You have the attention.
But what is being done?
Nothing, really. The attention was all that was solicited.
The problems can be solved, but it will not be overnight – and it seems that many of those “taking the knee” want the problems solved by the end of the first quarter. It’s not going to happen that way, because the problems didn’t come up that quickly.
“Shut up and play” doesn’t help anything, and carver is 100% correct. But taking a knee in protest doesn’t help anything either.
I keep hearing about “problems”. “Problems” no one seems able to define honestly. “Problems” with solutions that always boil down to wealth redistribution.
No, this is not about “problems”. It is the same mushy pablum the illiberal “left” has spewed upon us since the McGovern campaign.
Everyone is raysis, everyone hates, everyone is equally at fault.
That position, by its own criteria is BS and everyone knows it.
The “problem” is not raysis cops, “divided society”, or even “petulant” presidents.
The problem is the bigotry of white liberals that refuses to treat all people as equal in both rights and responsibilities.
The lefties wanted a race based society (AKA multicultural) and now that they have it, they hate it and want those of us who told them all along it would suck to “fix” the “problem”.
Nope, live with it, buttercup.
“Problems” no one seems able to define honestly.
Problem: You are two times more likely to be pulled over for a traffic offense if you are black than if you are white.
That’s from Justice Department statistics.
Specific studies have shown that a black male speeding through an intersection is more likely to be pulled over at a 2:1 rate than a white male speeding at the same rate and at the same intersection.
I don’t know about you, but I think that qualifies as a “problem.”
Second problem: Blacks are three times more likely to be searched at traffic stops than whites. No one can explain the discrepancy as it seems to cross all areas of suburban and urban and richer / poorer areas.
Would you disagree that those are “problems?”
“Problem: You are two times more likely to be pulled over for a traffic offense if you are black than if you are white.”
Carver, surely you’re not that much of a naif: Cops draw attention to themselves and get promoted by making busts. And traffic stops are more likely to turn into wanted persons, drug or felony possession of weapons busts if the stopped individual is black. Cops may not admit this but believe me, they know it’s true.
If you want to be a crimebusting cop, and that’s what they’re hired for, you search where the crimes occur most frequently and the likelihood of a crime being committed is the greatest.
I will say this….
Your point on “not helping” and doing more than protest is well taken.
It should be said that some of the protesters have put their money where their mouth is. They have donated their names, their time and their money towards making things better.
IMHO, the problem is that we tend to classify people into all inclusive groups. Players don’t have the right to protest because they are millionaires (a falsehood, but truths don’t seem to matter these days.) “All players are wife beating, drug using thugs.” “All whites are racist.” Etc, etc, etc. Instead of dealing with the issue, we have a tendency to cast a person onto a group as if that minimizes their point.
If there are racial issues in the policing of America, then either let’s deal with it, or disprove it.
To do that we first have to talk about it and the players such as the Warriors not talking and the President not listening doesn’t help at all.
Um, Carver, I do believe I used modifiers like “Many” and “Often”, not “All” as you imply. The only commenter using the language you describe was VOV and he was using it to slam those football fans objecting to the protesters.
Once again, your reading comprehension skills come into question.
“The question then becomes “what do we do to change it? What do we do to fix that division?”
I’d say, black leaders start talking to the black community about the problem issues they have. No one else is going to stop them from killing each other and having no family structure except them. I’m pretty sure what Martin Luther King would say to them. The same he said when he was alive, “Take advantage of the opportunities before you, get an education, raise your families properly and integrate.” But he wouldn’t be pointing the finger back at white America at this point in history and say, “It’s all their fault”.
You fix it by cleaning up your own backyard. I can’t fix the inner city and urban areas, I don’t live their. What I can do is be a decent human being and live my life in such a manner as to treat those in my sphere of concern fairly and decently, be respectful of others and be a good example for my son. It ain’t that difficult. Quit expecting the world to save you, the world has exactly zero fucks to give.
And -you- Mr so-called-“liberal” are the one saying ” race! Race! Race!”
I have no time for your racist bullshit. Those folks are mostly the same as me
American
By chance or by choice, and the few who are not, may yet be.
Until idiots quit making race an issue, we are stuck with racist bullshit.
So on behalf of the rest of us, dump the race-baiting bullshit. Hmmmm?
“But it doesn’t help and brings legitimacy to the issue ”
If you’re a lemming.
errrrrr……riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigth.
Because owners are lemmings. White players are lemmings. Teams are lemmings.
We are all lemmings to see injustices and want them to end.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ohio-officer-fired-video-shows-kicking-man-head-article-1.3315812?platform=hootsuite
Nothing to see here…..move along.
lol…you make me laugh.
Maybe your points are valid, perhaps they’re not.
The not to way to start the conversation is wiping their ass with the American flag.
That’s what we all feel they are doing.
I don’t take care of my kids, I commit a disproportionate amount of crimes and I kill more of my own race than any other…. but whitey is the problem. Come on man. The knee needs to be taken when Sharpton and Jackson speak.
This is preaching to the choir. There is something incredibly wrong that a bunch of highly paid athletes would disrespect the Flag of our nation and our National Anthem to grab some “air time”. As if they don’t get enough already. With the exception of a very few, todays professional athletes haven’t taken the oath, or worn one of the uniforms of our nation. For those of you football players who have laid your life on the line, this rant isn’t directed at you. Unless youre a gutless conformist and follow the lead of the media darlings on your teams. These guys make a boat load of dollars. Why not put your kneeling, to a better use; walk away from that great big salary and become a policeman (if you can). Perhaps that’s a bit too real and leads to a higher degree of personal accountability. Make a real difference not some vapid act of supposed social protest. Do things suck for a certain part of our population in certain areas of our nation? Yep, they sure do. Where I live, we have a lot of Hispanic seasonal agricultural workers (see how PC I was there?). Most of these folks work hard as hell and take care of their own. But as with any segment of ANY society/ethnicity there are some that would rather take OTHER peoples things than work for their own, or for some reason think that they should get a hand out because they are special in some way. Hmmm wonder what happens to slackers in other countries? Im sure they get a handout and special dispensation from the law enforcement agencies… I cannot express the depth of my disgust when I see these guys who make hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars for playing a game, taking a knee if the front of those who have provided us all with the freedom to actually do such a thing. I know that sounds a bit weird. I do see that There’s a dichotomy about bitching about some privileged athlete going for televised “gold” in the… Read more »
^^THIS^^
Good article.
I personally would choose to stand… but I don’t have any problems with players kneeling. It’s a peaceful, non-disruptive act to bring attention to their grievances, while still being, in my opinion, respectful. I guess I don’t get why kneeling is considered disrespectful, when practically any other scenario in which it happens is one of respect. When Christians kneel to pray, is that out of disrespect? In days past, when one knelt to a King, was that out of disrespect?
Yes, the Flag is a symbol of our country, and all that goes with it – to some, that’s the blood & tears of lives lost in the fight for it, but more importantly it’s the principles on which it stands. And while Poe is correct in that the First Amendment only ensures that the government doesn’t curtail your right to free speech, that’s simply the strict legal codification of an American principle of accepting the concept of freedom in expression. Sure, the NFL could fire those players – they have that right. But we as citizens should be a little more accepting of people expressing themselves peacefully and, arguably, respectfully.
I love the Flag. I’ve flown it in a good number of places, both foreign and domestic. And while I’d rather not see anyone disrespect the Flag, when given the choice between disrespecting a symbol of our principles, or disrespecting our principles themselves, I’m going to choose principles over symbols every day of the week.
Kneeling during the National Anthem as a sign of protest is nowhere near the same thing as kneeling after a touchdown or other play, or after a game, for prayer or any other reason.
LC, are you referring to that “strict legal codification” that got my wife fired?
As with the NFL, it’s totally within the legal rights of most places to fire someone for whatever reason – including politics. But we, as citizens, should discourage that, and support people peacefully expressing opinions counter to our own. That goes for NFL stars who are kneeling, and it goes for your wife as well.
The people who fired her because they were oh-so-upset over simply having a different opinion on politics are just as wrong as the people who are oh-so-upset over the NFL players and want the teams to fire them.
That’s the nice thing about principles – they apply universally, not to just one party.
LC, comparing the folks here at TAH with a bunch of weaselly Democrat ambulance chasers isn’t going to earn you a lot friends.
I don’t think I made that comparison – I said no matter what group of people we’re talking about, we need to be a little less upset / reactionary about political differences.
Principles, not parties.
I would say that depending on the career field, say Military, Police, Fire, etc, we would be charged with “conduct unbecoming” or something similar… Me personally, i see a big difference between what some random employee has on their bumper, and what someone high profile on TV does.. I’d say that the NFL has, by their actions and comments, shown who their preferred demographic is.. just like the NHL, and Nascar team owners did on the same subject, though obviously they have a different preferred demographic. Based on that info, I’d suggest that it’s completely appropriate for those of us who find ourselves to not be of that preferred demographic, to vote with our time, our dollars, and our feet.
I do believe that we should encourage all business owners to set standards of conduct, be it dress codes, behavior codes, etc, that are appropriate for the business they run.
Just my 2 cents worth
I’m honestly not sure where I fall on things like dress codes – I dislike the idea, but understand the need at times. But all in all, I agree – businesses can set standards of conduct. The NFL does this now, I imagine… it’s just that this issue isn’t going too far. If someone talked about how they liked raping women, for example, they’d be fired immediately. (And, of course, represented by the player’s union, but that’s a whole other issue!)
My point was simply that I wish we were all less reactionary to people having different opinions. I mean, I had an East Coast friend who didn’t know what to think when they saw a car in Colorado that had a Bernie bumper sticker right next to an NRA one. But why the hell should they be confused? People are allowed to like guns and single-payer healthcare. There’s no rule about that. We work so hard to be outraged by whatever is outside our own purview, and … well, I just think that’s actually somewhat un-American. You going out shooting on the weekend doesn’t directly impact some anti-gun activist, so why should it bother them? Some NFL player I’ll never meet kneeling for the anthem doesn’t impact me either, so I’m not going to let it bother me. I know what I stand for, and I’m going to continue doing so.
But again, overall, I agree with you. And I think, as this thread indicates, people are voting with their time, dollars and feet. Nothing wrong with that. I just don’t think that in a world with countless real issues, this is what’s causing great consternation among people.
I think if they want to express their free speech by not participating in the anthem, raising a fist, taking a knee, flipping the bird etc., then that’s their right. However, they should probably remember they are sending a message that may not be received favorably.
However, they are at work and if the employers say no to such shenanigans then that is their right as well.
Since the sports franchises are businesses, the fans are free to spend their time and money elsewhere and to voice their approval or disapproval.
Right now it’s a lesson in child psychology. Tell a spoiled arrogant child striving to reinforce their autonomy and you can count on simply reinforcing the behavior.
I don’t watch any of the big three and own no merch, so they’re already less than meaningless to me. I have no support to withdraw.
Kinda obvious though none of them cared until Hillary lost.
“Freedom of speech” means you can’t be criminally prosecuted for self-expression. It doesn’t mean there can’t be consequences.
You can say what you want, and I have the right to call you an asshole for it, tell you to fuck off and die, and refuse to patronize your business. Consequences.
If I tell my battalion chief that he’s an incompetent micromanaging piece of snake shit who shouldn’t be in charge of anything, do I get to claim free speech? Nope, I will be immediately terminated with cause for disobedience and gross insubordination. Is that unfair? No, it’s the real world. Actions have consequences. If you don’t follow your employer’s rules, they don’t have to keep employing you.
President Trump publicly calling out a bunch of overpaid prima donnas is not a violation of their rights under the first amendment.
President Obama using the IRS as a weapon against conservative non-profit organizations is a violation of the first amendment.
Here ended the lesson.
Look out olé gitarcarver is gonna yell straw man at you. The past means nothing to him. By his own rules past battles should not be taught, history is just a straw man that someone else did. And should never be brought up.
Are you trying to say “You didn’t build that”?
Maybe a lot to do with these peeps hating our President but that is only my opinion.
I see that the corporate media is rolling out a 97-year old WW2 vet named John Middlemas. Is he legit? He says its okay to kneel. The corporate media is not above producing so-called “vets” to support their agenda, and we also know there’s no faker like an old faker. Is this a POSer match made in heaven? Inquiring minds want to know.
Also, Oakland (go figure) A’s catcher Bruce Maxwell took a knee saying it was all right because his Dad “bled for this country”. Again, with all the fakery these days I wanted to know if these guys are who they say they are, or they just pieces of shit looking for attention.
John Middlemas did serve in the United States Navy (submarines) during WWII and after.
As an aside, I’ve seen various reports that attendance is down. Yet looking at the numbers from ESPN.com (link below), the average attendance seems to be slightly up as of right now. For 2017 we have an average of 69,381.3 people, and for 2016 the average was 68,872.2. Maybe other places are comparing just the first few weeks of 2016 vs. the first few weeks of 2017, but using the year’s full stats, as of right now, attendance isn’t down. Ratings are quite possibly a different story.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2016
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2017
It’s not like Every Special Person kNeels would lie to cover for their own. ESPN has gone far left long before this whole thing brewed up.
LC, you just keep on believin’ ESPN as an authoritative source.
Myself? I think I’ll decline.
You guys really think ESPN is going to falsify data just to prove a point that most people aren’t going to care about?
What’s next, do you think they up the batting average of minorities and hope people don’t notice? All this stuff is verifiable by multiple sources. But I’m guessing the individual stadiums are also liberal plants, huh? And maybe ticketing agents. And accountants, obviously. C’mon, at some point you need to ‘kneel’ to Occam and recognize that it’s simply more likely that games still sell well, even if ratings (people watching on TV) are down.
SJWs
1) Lie
2) Project
3) Double down
So yes, they -would- lie. They are already solidly committed to th SJW agenda, so they go in the “presumed lying” category.
The their ratings have tanked, but they keep doubling down on stupid. They -cant- admit the truth anymore.
The problem with this is that as soon as data is presented, you label the source of data as ‘Social Justice Warriors’ and thus dismiss it.
If I give you other sources of data, not ESPN, would you accept it? Or will you wait to see whether it supports your position before deciding whether the data is legitimate or not?
You’re smarter than this. It’s one thing to find an on-air personality annoying, and another to think a massive business who relies on the validity of their data to secretly change things, without the various database administrators, webmasters, lawyers, accountants or managers involved speaking out over an overt deception.
ESPN just let a shit pot full of people go. Why if ratings are so good. Are your sources full of shit?
I didn’t say ratings are good – in fact, up above, I said “Ratings are quite possibly a different story.” And it seems they are. But attendance is what I was quoting, and I doubt it’s ESPN’s numbers – they just collect them. They’re numbers that are surely from the stadium ticket sales.
I can’t stand ESPN’s coverage, but it doesn’t make sense they’d alter data that few people look at to make a point, since if it IS false, they lose any credibility in their data – which is one thing people do rely on them for. Not commentary, but accurate data about sports.
It’s entirely possible (and seems to be the case) that ratings are down while attendance is slightly up.
LC, there’s no direct corelation between ticket sales and attendance. That half-empty 49’rs stadium was reportedly near sold out. Most of the good seats are peurchased by corporations and law firms to be dispensed as bribes.
Think about it: If even the people getting the free seats are staying away, SOMEBODY has a huge public relations problem.
That’s a fair point, but until ticket sales start dropping -which they might if interest drops- the NFL isn’t going to be terribly concerned. Money talks.
I’m also not quite that data from a Thursday night game between two Californian teams in a stadium nobody likes is representative of the NFL on the whole. I don’t have a dog in the fight; if reliable data shows a downturn in attendance over time, I’ll believe the attendance is down – when I first looked up the numbers, I actually expected a slight decrease. It showed a slight increase, but yes, possibly of ticket sales instead of attendance – though that’s not yet clear.
But when people insist one thing absent any data supporting it, I’m skeptical.
Not being a football fan boycotting it is all too easy. I think they have the right to their own beliefs and to express them; they have the right to accept the consequences for their actions if the fans tell the owners they won’t stand for said expressions. If the public in general does not convey that to the owners…well, maybe I am out of touch. But I intend to continue to be so. (And in the immortal words of Dave King “If you have to have a helmet, you ought to be on a fookin’ motorbike”.)
When just one of these players forgoes his pay and refuses to play for his convictions, I’ll have some respect for his opinion even if I disagree. But taking the knee, is just cheap showmanship. Put your money where your convictions are and I’ll pay attention. Until then, fuck off.
And everyone said Amen.
Especially since the minimum salary for an NFL player is 465,000 bucks (more than twice what the President makes) and that goes up 15 grand annually.
How much of their millions do they donate to help with causes that pull the underprivileged out of squalor into better circumstances?
Well, the guy that started all of this noticed that he’s been called out on his inaction to do what you mentioned. Now, Kaepernick is saying that he will “finish” getting around to donating some money to charity.
He’s saving his unemployment checks as fast as he can.
As far as I’m concerned, these idiot sports figures (even kids) who kneel in protest during the National Anthem are no different from the Westboro idiots who picket funerals with signs that say, “Thank God for dead Soldiers!”
except the WBC actually puts more labor into what they do. Taking a knee for several seconds in which you’re making a metric shite tonne of money anyway at your job site takes considerably less effort.
Funny how all the America haters still stay in America to reap the benefits. If you hate the country so much you can and should leave.
Poetrooper –
You are so correct about it is not a civil rights protest, it is plain and simple disrespect! I could make a list of who it disrespects starting with our military and first responders. Plain and simple, it disrespects our nation. As far as President Trump calling the kneelers S.O.B’s, he only said what I have been thinking since this whole thing started.
I think most of us feel the NFL players are spoiled by money and fame. This is not to degrade the effort and talent it takes to achieve professional status as a football player. But they are just that – players! They are not heroes! They get paid better than damn well for the effort they make. How many of the players taking a knee would even think of putting themselves in a life or death situation like our military and first responders do every day!
I received photo of a folded flag being given to a Gold Star Family with the caption “Those who disrespect our flag have never been given a folded one.”
Not Fonda Kerry was an epic bumper sticker! I had one on my truck while I was living in Los Angeles County. What was amazing was the number of times I got honked at on the Four-Oh-Five five people who loved the sticker. To my knowledge, I had the only Not Fonda Kerry bumper sticker for 100 miles.
As far as the athletes not wishing to stand for the national anthem, I don’t like it. But I think coercing them to stand, sends a worse message. Trump’s statements on the matter were misguided and unfortunate.
In 1993, I had a sticker that said “defeat the dope smoking draft dodger in 96”. I was parked in front of 11th SIG BDE HQ and the BDE Commander saw it and walked over. He’s laughing. He said “SGT D, I love that sticker, I have one on my garage wall, but I think you’re a little over the line. It’s gotta go”. I just said yessir and peeled it off. Hey, I knew it was questionable when I did it.
I’d take a wild guess the reason you had the only “Not Fonda Kerry” bumper sticker on the 405 at the time was because it was out-sold by the more popular “I wanna be Barbie. That bitch has everything.”…
I had a mentor years ago who had a bumper sticker that said, “Boycott Jane Fonda: American Traitor Bitch.”
Great one, I don’t recall how he got it but his brother went to Viet Nam and he was in the Army himself for a few years so he had a very personal feeling about the bitch.
In case some of you have not seen this:
Found Ex-PH2’s “flying” squirrel making a touchdown this weekend at a Football game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Cfy0l6yJ4
Sometimes we need a good chuckle in the midst of all this madness surrounding us.
So how come Tim Tebow was wrong for taking a knee for his beliefs?
Easy. White priveledge. He’s forcing his Christian beliefs on people. You’re so unenlightened. /SARC/ I think
Gitarcarver yells straw man straw man, what does Tebow have to do with this…. he is an idiot.
Mike Florio over at Pro Football Talk (and on Sunday Night Football pre-game show) was one of the BIGGEST Tebow bashers online (and still is, even though he is playing minor league baseball).
PFT was a good site to get info on the league until he sold it to NBC and became another talking head for them.
NFL owners and coaches need to ask themselves one question:
What would Tom Landry do?
What would George “Papa Bear” Halas, Wellington Mara, Lamar Hunt or Al Davis do?