Socialism, History – and “An Inconvenient Truth”
Here are two quotes. They’re both from the same individual. Before I tell you who, take a guess.
Socialism as the final concept of duty, the ethical duty of work, not just for oneself but also for one’s fellow man’s sake, and above all the principle: Common good before own good, a struggle against all parasitism and especially against easy and unearned income.
We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions
So, who did you guess? Lenin? Marx? Eugene Debs? Some other famous Socialist or Communist figure from history?
Well, they are indeed direct quotations from a Socialist historical figure. But he’s not one that usually comes to mind.
The speaker in each of the above was none other than . . . Adolph Hitler. The quotes above are historically verified, and they show insight into just how Hitler viewed himself: as a Socialist, with a mission to implement his concept of Socialism in his society. His views concerning the desirability of Socialism were essentially the same as those of Lenin and Stalin, as were his methods. Even his economic policies were broadly similar.
Not convinced? Here are a few more verified historical quotes from Hitler regarding his views on how his movement (the Nazi party) embraced Socialism. I’ve added a bit of emphasis here and there.
We are convinced that socialism in the right sense will only be possible in nations and races that are Aryan, and there in the first place we hope for our own people and are convinced that socialism is inseparable from nationalism.
After all, that’s exactly why we call ourselves National Socialists! We want to start by implementing socialism in our nation among our Volk! It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism.
For we [National Socialists] too are considered ‘upstarts’ and ‘leftists’ by those same reactionaries. They are only too eager to apply such terms as ‘enemies of the fatherland,’ ‘Bolsheviks,’ and ‘inferiors.’”
Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism . . . . How can you not be an antisemite, being a socialist! (bold emphasis present in source)
However, Hitler’s version of Socialism was different from that of the Soviets in one key respect. Hitler viewed the implementation of Socialism as most properly being an internal national matter. He rejected internationalist ventures (except for conquest, of course; like the Soviet Union, he wanted to expand his empire). Lenin and Stalin had the opposite viewpoint. Plus, Hitler appears to have been more extremely racist – as well as closer to being absolutely full-blown bat-sh!t crazy – than either Lenin or Stalin.
So, whenever someone trots out the claim that Nazis were “not Socialists” or were “a creation of the Right”, show them the above quotations from Hitler and ask them to explain them. And if their heads don’t immediately explode and they instead begin to splutter incoherently or spout inane leftist apologia, just smile – and walk away.
The claim that National Socialists were “not Socialists” and “were a creation of the Right”, in plain language, is bullsh!t. The Nazis were simply yet another band of authoritarian Socialists who managed to attain political power. Along with extreme nationalism, the Nazi movement had Socialist (as well as racist) principles as its core beliefs.
Nazi economic policies were Socialist in nature and were and centrally-directed. Their police-state methods were effectively the same as those used by the Soviet Union during the Great Terror. Ditto their suppression of ethnic minorities and political “undesirables”, as well as their use of mass imprisonment and mass murder. And they created one of the most repressive – and murderous – authoritarian Socialist police states in human history.
Bottom line: the Nazis saw themselves as a Socialists. Their founder openly admitted it. Their policies. tactics, and methods were similar to – or the same as – those used by other authoritarian Socialist regimes. Both the Nazis and Soviet Communists sought world domination under Socialist rule. The only essential difference between them was who would rule the resulting Socialist world each sought to create.
Author’s Note: For convenience, the above quotes were taken from WikiQuote. However, authoritative primary sources for each quotation are cited there and can be used for verification of the quotes. Feel free to do so if you like.
And spare me any leftist apologia explanations that “those quotes don’t really mean what they say”. Hitler’s words above speak for themselves quite clearly. He was indeed a Socialist – of a particularly evil, authoritarian, and racist bent.
Category: Historical, Reality Check
Too early for Lars to post yet, but he will.
Oh God, yes he will.
I’ve suggested people take a look at Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism”, which details much the same thing.
Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Lenin may not have all bee BFFs, but they ran in surprisingly similar circles.
It’s a virtual certainty that he will. But I’d give long odds it will be simply nothing more than yet another 1000+-word blurb filled with Leftist apologia/talking points vice any attempt at rational debate backed with fact.
He’s proficient at the former. He seems incapable of the latter.
Wow!.. 1411 words in his first round volley. Good call Hondo!
I’ll be out part of the day, but if Sir Fart Strangely does show up, give him hell for me, would you? Thanks!!!
He’s here.
I thought you were quoting derr kommissar!
Are those quotes from ‘Mein Kampf’? My mother had a copy of that. When I found it and asked her about it, she sputtered and babbled and I told her it should be thrown into a giant shredding machine. (Personal shredders weren’t available back then.)
I think the first two samples can be found on a website full of quotes from Hitler’s literary output.
The winter of our discontent still bubbles and boils.
I once found that book in the possession of one of my cousins. I immediately asked WTF, since we were all raised far better than that. He’s no nazi, and his answer made some sense. He said, “I just want to try to understand how such an obviously-evil bastard could make a whole country full of decent, reasonable people follow him.”
In other words, he wanted to know the enemy. I told him that he was a far better man than me if he could endure that, and he admitted that reading it literally made him physically ill.
I have copies of Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto for the same reason. Know you enemy as well as your friend.
^^^THIS^^^, that’s why I’ve read the Goddamned koran.
It is amazing how easily you can mindfuck Afghans or Iraqis when you are able to talk about the Koran/Quran and what’s in it.
Even being able to throw back “Inshya Allah” (If God Wills It) at them confuses them since that’s THEIR excuse for being lazy, or something not getting done.
Let alone, how many you will meet that think the Quran says, “Kill Americans and Destroy the United States!” when it was written in the sixth century. (Imagine how much the superpower we’d be if the USA was 1500 years old?)
EEEeeeeYUP!
IT says kill “infidels” period!
Anyone who thinks the commies aren’t racist should ask the half-French street orphans in Vietnam, or ask the Hmong and the Montagnard.
I own a copy of Mein Kampf … as a history teacher (26 years), I didn’t think I should teach about that which I do not know. And I forced myself to read it.
I came to two conclusions:
1. Hitler was full of shit.
2. Hitler was a terrible, TERRIBLE writer.
Nowadays, when insomnia hits, I pull my copy of Mein Kampf off the shelf and start reading. Within two pages I’m yawning, and after three I’m in Sleep-A-Way Land.
Gully Vern, iz dint kno youse cud reed?
I have a lot of talents nobody knows about.
Yet.
“But the nazis were racist!”
So are 95% or more of commies. Don’t believe me? Look at the policies, both official and unspoken, of the communist regimes of the world. Read what Che Guevara had to say about blacks; that sack of shit would fit right in at a Klan rally.
“But the nazis fought against commies.”
Which proves exactly fuck-all considering how well different communist governments and movements have gotten along with each other. From street violence to full-scale warfare, commies killing each other is nothing new or unusual. It often revolves around stupid little details of how communism should allegedly work, not unlike the infighting amongst islamic terrorists. Compare the Night of the Long Knives with Stalin’s purges. Same motive, different method, same result.
The only difference between national socialism and regular socialism is that nazis are more outwardly picky about who gets to enjoy the benefits of their utopia.
There’s nothing to fear from communism.
Everyone knows that.
As an example, East Germany was a beautiful communist utopia, and so many people wanted live there in that wonderful, magical land that they ultimately had to build a wall surrounded by barbed wire and land mines just to prevent people from capitalist Western countries from getting in.
If only we could return to those heady, halcyon days…
In a fortress, the machine guns face outward to defend against invaders. In a prison, they face inward to keep anyone from escaping. Which way did they face on the Berlin Wall? Oh, right…
East Germans attempting to escape to the West:
http://andberlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Berlin-in-the-1960s-an-escape-attempt-screenshot-from-The-Wall.jpg
I’ve seen East German soldiers escape from East Germany.
Damn, Jonn! That’s a great story! I hadn’t seen that before.
Well done!
So the dude was willing to climb barehanded over 10 feet of concertina wire to get out? Yeah, that must have been paradise.
Through claymore mines mounted on the fence.
Nice citation.
That is one helluva story 🙂
Here’s another poignant image from communist East Germany. I hope that Commissar takes a good, close look at it so that he can see the reality of communism/socialism.
’17 August 1962: The 18-year-old Peter Fechter was shot as he tried to escape. In Berlin alone 136 people died at the Wall.’
Been to East Berlin for a day. It was the scariest, most depressing place I have ever been. We had to wear our uniforms, and people we encountered acted like they were afraid to talk to us. The gov’t put a tail on us for most of our visit, so we had to be debriefed by some civilian clothed intel types upon return to the west.
I always heard that anyone and everyone from the West was tailed and tracked by the East German Stasi, their version of the KGB.
“The Gestapo were bone breakers.
The Stasi were soul breakers.”
They said the same in comparing themselves to the KGB, something like “The KGB will break your body, the Stasi will break your spirit and soul.”
Derr kommissar will say those people were climbing the wall to GET IN, not out! socialism is so wunnerful LOL
Yep, just look at the cars East Germany produced, I’m sure everyone in West Germany would prefer a Trabant over say, A Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi or BMW!
Here’s a sample of their precision craftsmanship:
If you get the optional extended dual exhaust pipes, the Trabant can be used as a wheelbarrow.
I heard rumor that a YUGO handled like a Porsche when compared to a Trabant!
Dang! That was mighty funny.
Every problem looks like a nail when the only tool you have is a hammer.
Just the same as all those millions of South Koreans swimming, digging, crawling, sneaking through mine fields, to get into North Korea because it is so wonderful there!
Hell, even Elvis Presley lives in North Korea and he is doing quite well! (According to a particular sign facing the South.)
Honorable no, no, NO! North Korean media say we no do good without North Korean aid. have you had another cup of melted snow, Comrade?
Oh, let’s not get in the way of those self-absorbed snowflakes as they self-destruct. Their determination to commit suicide, and take the rest of them with them, is but one indicator of just how dysfunctional they are.
They can deny reality all they wish, but the rest of us are still sane enough to retain some survival skills. It really is as simple as seeing what we, both individually and societally, need versus what we want, then acting upon it.
And we’ve yet to see them try their shit anywhere other than dark blue locales, I’m sure their handlers know damn well they’d get their asses shredded and handed back to them anywhere else.
Very true.
Wow, I was ready to say it was from Bernie Sanders or Michael Moore.
Shirley, you jest.
Nah. Bernie is worse.
He’s not jesting, and stop calling him Shirley.
When the people of any nation are forced to accept rule by fait accompli … it may be disguised with many pseudonyms but it will always answer for Tyranny.
TVI
As with much of the Left’s rhetoric, they never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
This is so damn ridiculous. YOU DID NOT QUOTE ADOLF HITLER. You quoted John Toland’s 1976 Biography of Adolf Hiter. Maybe READ THE DAMN BOOK YOU PULLED THOSE QUOTES OUT OF!!!!!! The author of that book John Toland, was using those quotes to argue how during the early effort to gain political relevance and support Hitler baited the German left and German workers into joining the NSDAP because many German workers found LEFTIST POPULISM to be more appealing than the xenophobic economic nationalism of the Right. IT IS INSANELY DISINGENUOUS (and says a lot about you) THAT YOU WOULD SELECTIVELY QUOTE AN AUTHOR MAKING THE EXACT OPPOSITE ARGUMENT AS YOU AS THOUGH IT IS PROOF OF YOUR ARGUMENT. Toland highlighted those quotes (Out of hundreds of thousands of claims the NAZIS made) to show how they tried to HIJACK other political rhetoric and levels to make their populist propaganda as broadly appealing as possible to fuel their movement Fascists and NAZIS were anti-capitalist. That is true. Capitalism was a LIBERAL idea in its era. It was the progressive side of politics and the spread of capitalism and globalization created a great deal of problems. Much like globalization and capitalism today. And make no mistake; GLOBALIZATION IS CAPITALISM. The very fundamental argument of capitalism was to remove barriers to trade across borders. Then and today both the RIGHT and the LEFT had POPULIST political movements in response to the failures of PROGRESSIVE GLOBALIZED CAPITALISM. Like Bernie supporters today the far left side thought we needed to deal with the failures of capitalism though developing mechanisms of a welfare state for the “collective good”. The writers of Marx and Engles were regarded as EXTREMELY prescient on the failures of capitalism. The Marxist movements were very popular in Europe, including Germany. Like TRUMP supporters the far RIGHT side believed they needed to deal with the failures of capitalism though ECONOMIC NATIONALISM. Economists like Friedrich List were particularly popular among right wing populists in Germany during the early 20th century. This right wing populism in Germany was NAZISM. It borrowed the FASCIST nationalism of… Read more »
Oh, hey! I was just about to leave and Sir Fart Strangely showed up, just in the nick of time!!
Wow! What a sense of timing!!! What a start to the day!
Target in sight. Zeroed in 5 by 5. Hit it!
I see Babbles McButthead’s rants as his way of validating himself and the crap he is spoon fed by his perfessers. He wants to think he’s right and will eventually convince someone and he refuses to accept anyone’s dissent with his viewpoint and bullshit. He will never accept anything other than his bullshit no matter how much time, patience and crayons you waste trying to explain to him!
God bless ya, Lars.
You’re nothing if not predictable.
As predicted, nothing but Leftist apologia and talking points.
Did you even bother to check the actual sources of those quotes? No, I’ll answer for you: hell no you did not. And don’t p!ss on our legs and tell us it’s rain by claiming that you did.
Had you bothered to actually do that, you’d see that precisely one of those quotes is from Toland’s bio of Hitler. And in that passage, Toland was directly quoting a speech Hitler gave in May 1927. Are you saying Toland didn’t know what he was doing? Are you calling a respected historian a liar? I’d think long and hard about doing so if I were you.
The remainder are from other sources. One is from Mein Kampf. Two others are from a speech Hitler gave in 1920. Another is a quote attributed to Hitler by a close confidante. Another is from a German academic work.
All of them are direct quotes from Hitler’s writings or speeches, or from statements made to confidants who recorded for posterity what he had said. None of them were fabricated; all were from Hitler.
Regarding Hitler’s purge of “leftists” – let me ‘splain that to you, numbnVts. It’s called “getting rid of potential rivals”. Stalin did exactly the same when he got rid of Bukharin and Trotsky – and again when he had Yezhov commence the Great Terror in the 1930s. Same same alla same. Are you too thick to realize that?
Now, please be so kind as to ESAD. Your continued quoting of Leftist talking points without bothering to fact check them because you’re afraid doing so will conflict with your preconceived notions is disgusting – as is your mendacity and misplaced arrogance. You have little if any reason to be arrogant.
Hondo,
Here are some additional supporting fires.
‘National Socialism: A Left Wing Movement’
https://archive.org/details/NSLM_201604
‘Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian’
https://www.mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian
Stalin clipped an awful lot of leftists, too. It didn’t move him even an inch to the right.
Yep. Just ask Trotsky’s and Bukharin’s descendants and relatives.
Lenin purged Leftists, too, of the socialist variety, and replaced them with communists.
And Stalin purged those even farther to the Left than himself. Trotsky’s an example.
Leaders of autocratic regimes purge potential enemies, lest they take a fall themselves. It’s simply the “nature of the beast.”
Whassamatter, Commissar? You don’t like hearing the truth? Yeah, that’s pretty common among liars and idiots, both of which include you.
“Toland claimed to have translated Hitler’s speeches. But HIS CITATIONS WERE ABSENT. Meaning we have to take his word for it that these are Hitler’s speeches.
Toland had a reputation of playing a little fast and loose with attributing his historical sources.”
And yet, here you are, once AGAIN, spewing forth with NO CITATIONS, sources or documents to back up your claims.
Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black, eh?
Yesterday you threw out numbers (with no citations) concerning war memorials/monuments that myself and others easily disproved, and as of yet……..crickets from you. Seems to be your “modus operandi” which to myself is the same as: “if I can’t dazzle them with brilliance, then I’ll baffle them with bullshit”.
As a former intelligence officer (or so you say), a person would be led to believe that someone that had served in that capacity would be more factual, not the nonsense that you post here.
As a former combat grunt and later on as a tank PSG, I ensured that my soldiers had the best & most accurate info to conduct our training or missions to achieve a higher degree of success.
If there was an uncertainty as to the accurateness, I took great pride in ensuring that if I was incorrect, I would make damn sure to own up to it & get the correct info to my soldiers. My soldiers & the mission came first, not my ego. I never made shit up to make myself look self-important.
I served “decades” ( shamelessly using one of your quotes you used here to self describe your service in the Army), and had unfortunately crossed paths with a number of individuals as yourself.
Fortunately, due to having served in different era’s, I thank God I never had you cross my path.
Take a Pamprin or Midol and go soak in a tub, LARS…
I thought someone puked all over my computer screen, but I see its just more of derr kommissar’s drivel and drool!
Communism is such a wonderful thing that people just LOVED living in a commie regime.
Can’t imagine why Conrad Schumann would run away from it, can you?
My family came from Czechoslovakia (Slovakia specifically, today) and there are still some Communist sympathizers there who think the system was much better. When confronted with the “then why did so many people want to come to the U.S. or flee to the West and not the other way around?” they begin denying, denying, denying…. even though their homes and the homes of most in the village were built courtesy of American dollars when their parents, uncles and grandparents came here to work as construction laborers and cleaning men/women. What burned everyones asses even more was that the government officials in these regions sent their kids to learn English and study in Western schools while everyone else (my parents included) had to learn Russian.
An uncle and aunt of mine had to return to their home in 1970 because if they did not, the government informed them their son would not be permitted to graduate college with his engineering degree… they went back for his sake, and never got the chance to return here. Heartbreaking since they absolutely loved it here.
Anyone who sympathizes with the system can kiss my entire ass, eat shit and die on Christmas.
KA-BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
Well said!
If I had the time and stomach for it, I’d get those quotes in German.
I thought about getting my old 1950’s Langenscheidts’ German-English English-German out to give He-Whose-Head-Might-Explode a 1950’s translation of a certain disputed word.
But we’re too busy with real life in Texas right now.
How about these:
zusammenarbeiten
Mitarbeiter
Kollaborateur
der Quisling
I don’t envy your cleanup job, but I wish you well with it.
By 1934 the leftist faction leadership was PURGED from the Nazi party. Most of them murdered. Hitter borrowed populist rhetoric from BOTH SIDES. This can make it difficult to make a determination of what side of the political spectrum NAZIS were based entirely on the RHETORIC. Which is why historians do not use the RHETORIC of the Nazis to make that determination. They look at the actual ACTIONS of the Nazis. Trump does the same damn thing. He takes both right and left wing populist positions in his rhetoric. But his actual ACTIONS are overwhelmingly right wing. To put an end to this ridiculous “BUT NAZIS HAD SOCIALIST IN THEIR NAME AND SAID SOME SOCIALIST THINGS SO THEY MUST HAVE BEEN SOCIALIST!!” claim the right loves throw around DESPITE THE FACT that they know damn well the NAZIS were a right wing party. So lets look that the characteristic of the NAZI party based on what THEY ACTUALLY DID. Not merely the rhetoric of speeches made a decade before they rose to power. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: They used symbols of nationalism everywhere. Flags, slogans, songs, pins, banners, and other regalia. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: They approval of torture, and executions of prisoners. Their disdain for human rights was particularly true when targeting immigrants (much like Trump and Arpaio). Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause. Blaming foreign influence, globalists, and immigrants for the problems in the nation. Supremacy of the Military: military was given a disproportionate amount of government funding. Soldiers and military service were glamorized. Rampant Sexism: Leadership was almost exclusively male-dominated. Traditional gender roles were made more rigid. Opposition to abortion. Rampant homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy. Initially Blamed and Scapegoated the Media, then Took Control of Media: The term “Lügenpresse” was a popular slogan of the Nazi movement. And when they took control they targeted the press and eventually took control over it. Obsession with National Security: fear and the constant rhetoric of threats post domestic and international was used as a motivational tool by the NAZI government over the masses.… Read more »
Many have tried to explain to you in the past, but me? I have neither the time, patience or crayons right now, Babbles McButthead!
I think I can have some fun responding to this one. (smile)
Oh, PLEASE do so, Hondo. Do it point by point, precise and pertinent.
I look forward to your rebuttal of Lord Quacksalot’s inflated monologue.
You arrogant ass! You can’t even denounce -Nazis- effectively!
Wow Lars, you just splained soviet socialism to a T.
All your points are EXACTLY what every socialist country from East Germany to Venezuela has done. Including the Norks.
You just proved Hondo’s point!
Jesus jumped up Christ on a crutch. Everything you wrote is easily attributed to the leftist Communists of the old Soviet era. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism. The Soviets were masters of this with a propaganda machine that Goebbels would have envied. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights. There were no human rights under the Soviet regime. None of the rights we take for granted were allowed. There was no free speech. People were grabbed off the street, beaten and tortured, and held without trial over mere suspicion. They weren’t allowed lawyers if the even received a trial. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause. Here again, the Soviets were masters of manipulation. The West was an evil that had to be destroyed. The West wanted to ruin the ‘workers paradise’ of the ‘peaceful Soviet Union.’ Supremacy of the Military: It goes without saying, or should, that the Soviets built a massive military machine, giving it a supremacy that the Western militaries envied. Rampant Sexism. Western nations have nothing on the sexism of the Soviet regime. Women were toys to be used by the men and the women had no recourse but to take it or end up in a Gulag. Initially Blamed and Scapegoated the Media, then Took Control of Media. This is probably the stupidest thing you wrote. Pravda. The Societ state owned the media. Nothing more needs to be said. Religion and Government were Intertwined: Seriously? There never was a true Nazi religion. Many died fighting the idea that never truly came to fruition. Hitler tried subverting the Lutheran Church and never completely succeeded. It led to many martyrs such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer. In the Soviet Union and in Communist China today, no religion is allowed unless the state gives its permission. Obsession with National Security: Again, the Soviets were masters of that. Their entire propaganda was geared towards warning of the dangers the West posed to the ‘peaceful Soviet workers paradise.’ They were able to build a huge military industrial complex around that notion. Corporate Power is Protected: Another no-brainer. The Soviets owned the corporate structure… Read more »
ArmyATC, you left out Izvestia. Pravda and Izvestia were the two sole, state-owned and approved news sources available to Soviet citizens.
And the Arts: entirely state-owned and approved. Any deviation was punishable, and not just by jail. No influence from the West was allowed, especially in dance. When Nureyev defected to the West on a tour with the Bolshoi in June, 1961, that was a huge blow to the Soviet grasp on the arts. It was classical, or NOTHING. Jazz was a manifestation of the decadent culture of the West.
But when Baryshnikov defected in the 1970s, it shattered the entire Soviet grip on the arts.
Baryshnikov knew that if he didn’t jump ship and stay in the USA, he would never grow, and he would never, EVER have been allowed to dance to ‘Capricious Horses’ as he does here:
Izvestia = News
Pravda = Truth
Soviet-era saying: There is no News in Truth, and no Truth in News.
Holy hell you’re dumb. None of those things are inherently right or left wing, dummy. Even the concept of right wing and left wing is ever changing. All this is masturbatory and we are all dumber for having been exposed to it.
That said, you’re projecting. Sorry the fact that you and the Chaplin mustached one are both socialists gives you a case of the sads.
Two posts so far, Commissar. Both of them TL-DR.
Oh, and some of those quotes were not Hitler’s. They were Strasser’s.
Thoughts about the Tasks of the Future
1926 June 15
http://www.yamaguchy.com/library/nsdap/spirit.htm
Toland attributed some to Hitler in his book but the actual sources were likely prominent leftist Nazis, like Strasser, whom Hitler eventually purged and murdered.
It is difficult to source rhetoric and material from Nazi Germany because many who were involved the early Nazi movement and might have had inside information on the speech writing, and the development of the propaganda and rhetoric of the NAZI movement died during the war or were executed after.
And in speeches Nazi leaders said they supported whatever seemed to generate support. So they often pulled stuff that worked from speeches and used it in their own speeches.
So attribution can be difficult and it appears elements of some of Hitler’s speeches were lifted out of other speeches by other leaders of the movement.
So, you’re claiming Toland was either incompetent or a liar. Glad to see you clarified that. Here is Strassner’s similar quote, from a 1-page “talking points” memo he sent to other senior Nazis, which does predate Hitler’s speech by about 10 1/2 months: We are Socialists, enemies, mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, with its injustice in wages, with its immoral evaluation of individuals according to wealth and money instead of responsibility and achievement, and we are determined under all circumstances to abolish this system! Hitler’s quote, which Toland provided in his bio, is in all probability a paraphrase of that part of Strasser’s memo. But what he said at a public speech in May 1927 was not identical to what Strasser wrote previously. Thus, what you’re doing is claiming that “Hitler didn’t say that” on the grounds that someone else previously said something similar in a discussion paper that was apparently not disseminated to the public. That is bullsh!t. The fact that Hitler paraphrased Strasser in a public speech that does not alter the fact that Hitler indeed said in a public speech what I quoted above – and by doing so, publicly endorsed it as party policy. Further, it was not the only such statement concerning his views on Socialism that Hitler ever made. I’ve given you five other examples above. The fact that Hitler later purged Strasser tells us nothing other than the fact that Hitler later purged Strasser. Nor is it proof positive that he was purged because of “leftist beliefs”. As I recall, it was routine for leading Soviet leaders who fell out of favor or lost internal power struggles to be cashiered due to having engaged in “counterrevolutionary activities” – the implication being that they had turned against Soviet-style Socialism. In reality, all it meant was that they’d lost favor (or an internal power struggle) and were being eliminated. The “counterrevolutionary activities” claim was a fig leaf intended for public consumption in order to justify their being cashiered (or executed, if under Stalin). Hitler and… Read more »
Look, Hondo, the proof is in the pudding – nobody has ever been such a champion of an independent, unchecked free market as good ol’ Adolph. Your sophistry won’t hide those facts! (/sarc)
That’s funny! You pull that from a leftist site that gives no attribution. So we’re just supposed to take your word for it?
The 1938 Nazi party handbook (excerpts in Marshall Cavendish’s Encyclopedia of WW II) includes a list of behaviors Hitler said would make one a true socialist. The emphasis was Hitler wanted his minions to be true socialists. Keep in mind the 1st rule of the fuehrer principle was the fuehrer is always correct.
That period of history has always fascinated me, possibly in part because I’m distantly related (on my mother’s side) to one of the leaders who worked with Hitler. But a thorough read (not through the lenses of today’s definitions of the terms) shows without question that what Hitler and the National Socialists pushed in the 1920s and 1930s in Germany is EXACTLY the kind of society today’s left is pushing. Down to the minutiae, the National Socialist movement and today’s left – as typified by AntiFa, BLM, and other such groups – wanted the exact same kind of society.
Jeez. Those who do not study the past will repeat it, indeed.
Or those who refuse to study it deny that they are one and the same.
“The problen with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money” – Lady Margaret Thatcher
Socialism is a system so “Perfect” that it has to be forced on a population at gunpoint!
“I risked my life crossing 90 miles of open water in a raft to escape Capitalism” said no one EVER.
Hopefully this link posts, HONDO you gotta see this. Its a guy trolling an Impeach Trump rally in Chicago dated July of this year. He uses these quotes to prove a really valid point.
https://youtu.be/qNMAp8kXWrc
Cannot figure out how to imbed the video.
The Soviets denounced anything opposed to their international worldwide socialism as “right wing”. Thus the “Hitlerites” and other Fascists were “right wing” to the dedicated Marxist. Trotsky was also a “right wing” deviant from true Marxist Socialism.
So if someone says that some socialists are “right wing”, where exactly does it put -them- on the Socialist Spectrum Disorder scale? Hmmm?
Exactly so, comrade!
My takeaway from all this: Commissar is an apoplectic idiot, again.
A douche of his magnitude could cleanse the vaginas of a dozen female Blue Whales.
I actually USE HISTORICAL FACTS.
I do not falsely attribute a quote from someone else to Hitler.
I do not falsely use a book as a reference while portraying the information from the book as the EXACT OPPOSITE argument than the book was making.
I am not the idiot. You just do not want to accept that NAZIS and FASCISTS are RIGHT WING.
But it does matter whether you asshats do.
The historical record is SUBSTANTIAL on this, and which the exception of a tiny minority of RIGHT WING ACTIVIST “historians”, NAZIS and FASCISM is a right wing movement.
NAZIS AND FASCISM ARE IS ALSO A RIGHT WING MOVEMENTS IN THE US RIGHT NOW.
The quote I attributed was actually made by Hitler in a speech on May Day, 1927, you imbecile. Yes, it’s similar to a written “talking point” Strasser wrote for Nazi leaders 10 1/2 months earlier. But that doesn’t alter the facts that (1) Hitler’s quote, though similar, is not word-for-word; and (2) Hitler’s quote was made publicly in a speech, while Strasser’s was in a private memo.
Hitler’s quote is the public one. Argue origin all you want, but Hitler actually said that while giving a public speech. And by saying it publicly, he endorsed it as the Nazi position on the matter.
What, are you a freaking brain-dead ideologue who literally cannot think for himself? Or are you simply afraid to do so?
This is the same Commissar who asserted once again this morning that I’m some kind of washed-up, elderly curmudgeon. After I’ve already pointed out that I’m 33 years old and not yet halfway to retirement. He’s a dipshit.
“What, are you a freaking brain-dead ideologue who literally cannot think for himself? Or are you simply afraid to do so”? You think it has to be an either/or situation, Hondo? LARS is, to no one’s surprise, a brain-dead socialist idealogue. So, it’s only natural that he’s gotten his manties in a twist. And, he thinks what his mentors at Berzerkley tell him to think.
Not only that, he takes everything those ponytailed potheads feed him as Gospel!
Yeah, the perfessers say, Fascism and Nazism are right wing, the idiot sycophants fall in and begin chanting, “Fascism and Nazism are right wing”, just like clockwork.
What was the ultimate difference between Hitler and Stalin? Moustache styles.
Screaming lies doesn’t make them magically into true statements. As usual, Lars, you are simply wrong.
The sad thing is that it really doesn’t matter. What the enemy calls itself is irrelevant. Distracting others from reality doesn’t change anything either.
But keep on denying history. Ultimately, you are denying yourself a future, but if you are lucky, perhaps you will survive in spite of yourself.
“Actual historical facts” like, for instance, a 400% increase?
Nice try, dickhead. You have priors.
BOOM! HAHAHA
Babbles McButthead, maybe you need to STOP taking what your brain-dead hippie perfessers spoon feed you as Gospel? Just sayin’…
The sum total of real “Nazis and Fascists” in the USA wouldn’t fill the good box seats at a minor league ballpark. Their hang-around-wannabees wouldn’t fill the cheap seats.
They are about as intimidating as C-3PO, and not nearly as entertaining.
BTW, when you use all caps like that, you appear to be frothing. It doesn’t add to the weight of your invective.
Lighten up Junior.
Let alone, the Anti-Defamation League counts the sum of white supremacists in the US at about 3,000. Even if you double, triple, quadruple that, it is an extraordinarily minute number compared to our total population.
There are more people shopping in all the WalMarts in North Carolina at 2am than there are white supremacists in this country. Those “fringe” right-wingers who actually think they are right wing vs left wing just like Hitler.
Interesting way to deal with Neo-Nazis 🙂
Well, that’s a technique. lol.
The “Right Wing” is bent so far around as to be touching the “Left Wing”. I don’t see how Hitlers purges were different from Stalin’s purges; how Hitlers actions were different from Stalin’s actions. Despotism seems to be the same, whether it is Fascist despotism, or Marxist despotism.
It was all Socialist despotism.
Regardless of how you choose to interpret the historical record with respect to the Nazi party….
It is clear that MODERN Nazis in America and are RIGHT WING NATIONALISTS. As are the white supremacist and alt-right movements.
The ANTI-FASCISTS in America right now are LEFT WING.
So I have questions for the group:
Why is it so many of you are on the side of the White Supremacists and Nazis on this board?
Why did so many have the impulse to blame the Anti-fascists and paint the Nazis and white supremacists as “victims” in Charlottesville?
Why is it you spend more time angry and complaining about the Antifascists on this this board than about American Nazis and white supremacists?
Why is it you want something done about left wing terrorism but you not only NEVER talk about right wing terrorism but when I do I get essentially attacked?
Why is right wing terrorism, which kills TEN TIMES more Americans than left wing terrorism, and wounds MORE THAN TEN TIMES more Americans than left wing terrorism not something you all are concerned with?
Aren’t you special. Your perception is far from reality. Did it ever occur to you that many folks here simply view Antifa as the greater threat at the moment?
I wasn’t talking about modern-day skinheads, neo-Nazis, or the Aryan Nation above, dipstick. And you know that full well.
Stop trying to change the subject when you have no effective argument to make. That’s pathetic.
“Pathetic” is Commissar’s middle name.
Silly me, I thought it was “Shithead”!
What is the source for his claim of ‘killed ten times more’? Where are his statistics?
Hah! They don’t exist anywhere but in his mudhole imagination. There is no obscure reference to it. Next thing you know, he’ll claim Stalin and Mao were right-wingers, too, so that all those tens of millions of people weren’t killed by real leftist socialists.
May the rest of your weekend be as fucked up as you are, Babbles McButthead.
It’s fairly obvious you don’t actually want an answer to what you’re asking, Lars. You’ve already said in the past, and it’s often evident from your responses, that you don’t really care what anyone else thinks. Instead, your purpose is to lecture by asking rhetorical questions from the vantage point of a Larsian distortion field. And never mind if what you say fits available facts or not.
Something you’ve also managed to ignore, no surprise, is that last week’s original planned “Rally against Hate” in Berkeley was organized by the group “Say No To Marxism.” Which places them, in your world view, automatically in the category of Fascists, Nazis, white supremacists, white nationalists and so forth. The socialist left side of the equation apparently being unable to tolerate political nuance when it comes from anyone to the right of Vladimir Lenin.
Both the East Bay Times and the local website Berkeleyside, neither of which could be considered conservative, recently ran brief stories on the aftermath of the protests and those arrested, including mug shots. It’s not a pretty picture:
http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/08/29/one-charged-for-assault-on-officer-in-berkeley-protests/
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2017/08/29/woman-police-say-hurled-apple-officer-berkeley-rally-charged/
Look carefully at the faces of your pals, Lars. Those are the allies and kindred spirits in your wet dream social struggle.
Mendez took a service dog to a riot? Service dog? “Service dogs are allowed but masks are not” – twitter tweet.
If she needs a service dog, why was she at a riot?
In order for someone to claim that a dog really is a service dog, is it not registered with the NSRA? I think Mendez lied her ass off about that. “Police say “Mendez used her large German Shepherd and the crowd as a defense mechanism to evade arrest.”” That is not how service dogs are used. I think she lied her ass off about the dog. But I’m sure that’s only the tip of the iceberg.
Unfortunately, anyone can legally claim any animal is a “service animal”, and businesses are not allowed (by ADA regulations) to question it.
I’m guessing Lars didn’t attend the national cancer society conference this year. That means he’s FOR Cancer!
Neo-Nazis have a right to peacefully demonstrate, speak, etc. I think that’s the only thing we “support” because if we silence them, tomorrow someone else might get silenced. (Kind of like what liberals and democrats are trying to do right now, silence anyone and anything that doesn’t agree with their point of view.)
Funny enough, ISIS has been doing the same thing by destroying cultural artifacts, killing and torturing, and ensuring the extinction of anything that doesn’t follow their ideology exactly.
Commissar: You’ve said quite a lot there; I don’t suppose you’re really looking for a response, however I’m new here so let me make a few brief comments. I would suspect that someone who has an education in political science and political economics would have a been understanding of the nature of political and economic systems. The entire construct of a “left/right” political spectrum is deeply flawed, and truly doesn’t reflect the reality of the situation Certainly “conventional” thinking has placed the communists on the left and the “nazis” on the right. Tell me, however, exactly, how they were really different? There was not an iota of practical, material, difference between the two. They were both extreme dictatorial police states with significant government control of the economy. Both were extremely nationalistic, aggressive, socially and politically violent regimes. The communists weren’t really “communist” but radical socialists. The nazis were trending in that direction also, however WW2 came so soon after their accession to power that they didn’t have time to fully implement their economic desires. Indeed even the soviets shifted back and forth between various forms of economic policies before they finally went under. These were the great “left/right” states of the twentieth century, yet they were virtually the same. And what were the “facists” really? That’s a term that applies correctly only the Mussolini’s Facist party. I doubt if the nazi’s called themselves that; the Soviets certainly did. But what does it mean? It seems that the term would apply equally to the soviets as well. And I don’t really think one could properly call today’s “neo-nazis” real nazis. What does it really mean? That term applies correctly only to the NSDAP of 20/30/40s Germany. These are both terms thrown out to demonize extremist groups with visions of past horrors. Let their present horrific motives speak for themselves. As well as the “antifa”. They must be the good guys because they are against the facists, who ever they are, right. Can’t we just agree condemn all violent groups. We’ve got to stop applying these silly labels that pre-judge everyone in… Read more »
“Why is it so many of you are on the side of the White Supremacists and Nazis on this board?”
Well, that finally did it. I must now agree with the more outspoken commenters here. You are indeed a semi-literate, pseudo-intellectual, whiny asshole.
We aren’t on a ‘side’ dude. The skinhead/white supremacy idiots are idiots who we do not share views with. They are, however, playing by the rules for the most part. They are exercising their 1st amendment rights.
The AntiFa jackasses on the other hand, are committing crimes against the idiots. They are the ones inciting violence and ‘going to collect 100 NAZI scalps’ to quote one from her Facebook vid.
Frankly, both the jackasses and the idiots can piss off. But, the end result is that the idiots have a Constitutional Right to be idiots, whereas the jackasses remove any ‘honor’ in their movement by committing crimes.
Sortta like the Brown Shirts and the Night of the Long Knives…
“Sortta like the Brown Shirts and the Night of the Long Knives…”
IMHO there is NO difference between AntiFa, their ilk and Hitler’s SA, “The Brown Shirts”. The SA goons went about beating, threatening, intimidating and terrorizing any and all that dissented with the Nazi Party and its agenda just like those shittyassed little fleabags do whenever they feel bold an to me the vast majority of them are COWARDS, there is no shortage of accounts of them getting bold when either one of them is at least twice the size of their intended victim or they outnumber him or her by at least 12 to 1.
Look at all these” leftist socialists” in America.
Didn’t American businessmen know not be be socialists?
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/06/american-nazis-in-the-1930sthe-german-american-bund/529185/
Oh, wait, they did, American businessmen supported the Nazi movement because THEY KNEW FASCISM WAS NOT SOCIALISM.
It appears obvious that it didn’t occur to you that it was more about German nationalism and the bigotry of those industrialists than it was about Socialism for them.
The ATLANTIC??? GTFOH. What’s next, you going to cite DailyKOS as a reputable source? Alternet? MSDNC as then epitome of news?
I’m sure he’ll be quoting slate.com quite often too.
As well as The Village Voice.
Hmm. Some businessmen might support state control of the means of production, -provided- that control favors … them.
Nah. Never happens.
It does not remotely occur to Baron Braindead the Dickless Wonder that in the 1930s, anti-Semitism was rampant everywhere, including in the United States, and the businessmen referred to in the Atlantic article viewed Jewish refugees as more of a threat than Nazism. The 1976 film ‘Voyage of the Damned’ was based on the historical record of the MS St.Louis being turned away from Havana harbor because her passengers were Jewish refugees fleeing the Hiter regime, sailing from Germany to Cuba in 1939. Rather, they were to be set up as pariahs, to set an example before the world. As a Nazi official states in the film, when the whole world has refused to accept the Jews as refugees, no country can blame Germany for their fate. When refused entry into Cuba, the ship’s captain went to Florida, but again, the passengers were denied entry into the United State.
Roughly 254 of those people died at the hands of the Nazis.
Therefore, that 1930s article is a report on the anti-Semitism in which the world was awash at that time. It is not about Socialism or anything other than anti-Semitism and racism.
Yet more proof that a little (very little) knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Or too much knowledge in a mind completely devoid of logic, common sense and rationality.
Very nice summary of history, Hondo. Points all made. Not going to agonize over what is likely to be an entirely predictable response from our resident troll. It’s just too boring.
The bottom line for me is that the only reported attacks in this country by marauding thugs in my lifetime have been either from the criminal element taking advantage of a situation or lefties.
No matter how disgusting I find the klan, white supremacists, and all those sorts of folks, it just doesn’t matter what label most of us want them to carry – they are not the threat that others are as demonstrated by their actual activity. Most (if not all) of that impotence is from good law enforcement keeping them from doing what they want to do, and for that we can all be grateful.
All most of us is asking is that the same diligence be given toward ridding ourselves of every other group wishing harm upon us as has historically been given to those most commonly referred to as far right extremists. I don’t care a whit what a thug professes politically, culturally, or any other detail – all we really need to know is that the thug and his cronies are willing to commit crimes against us and our property. We deserve to be protected from them, whoever they may be.
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Okay, I’m up to here with Lord Lickspittle Quacksalot’s refusal to acknowledge reality that Nazism is Socialism. To be so firmly and intentionally blind to reality is an indication of a mental disorder.
I dug up a video collection of Hitler’s speeches with accurate English subtitles. In this video at 02:41, Hitler specifically says “who commits themselves to this socialist state”….
Now since it comes out of the mouth of Der Fuerher at one of his assemblages, denying that he says ‘socialist’ or that he did not say the things which are quoted and attributed to him is a denial of reality, a specific sign of mental illness.
Here’s the video. The phrase I quoted is at 02:40. From now on, anything Commissar says about this issue is incorrect. End of story.
From now on? Commissar has never been correct about anything. End of story.
Yes, Sir Fart Strangely aka Lord Lickspittle aka Baron Quacksalot does tend to speak with his ass and defecate through his mouth.
I’m sure he’ll have it google translated by slate.com or the atlantic, or even better yet, Bernie Sanders interns (The same ones that only get 12 dollars an hour even though he thinks there should be a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage), who claim he’s really saying “fascist” and “fascism”.
If you watch that collection of Hitler’s appearances, and notice how he uses his right arm like a hammer, as if he’s driving a nail into something, and in one of those clips, he sticks his right hand under his left arm.
Such gestures show more about what someone is really like than we might otherwise notice. There’s nothing that indicates he had little use of his left arm, but he just lets it hang immobile most of the time.
Maybe I’m the only person who notices things like this, but when a public figure makes speeches, body language is as telling as anything else.
I watched Obama give several public memorized speeches. He was like a TV preacher, exhorting the crowd to follow him, but he couldn’t make an off-the-cuff, impromptu speech at all. He stammered and stumbled and looked around. That wasn’t just once, it was any time he had nothing prepared or memorized. The contrast was notable.
Watch the various clips in the video and pay attention to Hitler’s very active right arm, while his left arm just hangs.
The SOB hurt his left shoulder hanging paper. (smile)
Ha! I wondered about that.
Actually, it might have had to do with Hitler’s war wounds.
Hitler was wounded in the left thigh with shrapnel during World War I. If his left leg bothered him at times as a result, he might have subconsciously (or perhaps consciously) limited movement in his left side in order not to aggravate the situation.
I always heard that it was a result of his Parkinson’s disease. He seemed to gesticulate quite a bit with both hands in his earlier speeches, at least the ones I’ve seen (I don’t speak German, so it’s a bit less nausea-inducing).
That seems plausible as well to me. Caveat: I’m not a medical professional, so I have no idea how common it is for the early stages of Parkinson’s to affect primarily one side of the body only.
I just wondered about that, because it shows up through almost all of those speeches, especially those where he isn’t using a podium but is speaking to a very large crowd.
I noticed Obama too. That vaunted “eloquence” didn’t last too long. Even his supporters stopped crowing about it. He never lost that nose-in-the-air Il Duce pose, though.
I’ve seen more than one FB feed full of comments that talk extensively about how awesome Socialism is.
The best one was a woman claiming that the reason Socialism wasn’t working right was because people weren’t doing it correctly.
So, Socialism AND Communism are PERFECT! As long as people aren’t involved….
Pesky Humans, always messing up the Utopia.
Yeah you’d think all the experts in knowing the magic to make socialism work would go help Venezuela figure it out. It’s not like these magicians haven’t had numerous opportunities to show the world the real socialist dream come true.
Remember the definition of insanity…
Insanity: here’s the video.
Socialism and Communism, both are so perfect they need to be forced upon a populace at gunpoint! “I risked life and limb to escape the horrors of Capitalism.” said no sane person EVER.
I could give two shits which side of the spectrum any nazi POS comes from, just like where any commie POS comes from, they both can ESABATM.
yeah, to me it’s like arguing the merits of pedophiles that prey on little girls vs. pedophiles that prey on little boys.
They should all just die.
Yikes! Good example though IDC.
I think those dudes marching around with those nazi flags and the nitwits on the other side with hammer and sickle shit think it’s funny. It ain’t funny, not one bit. Nazism and communism are on trash heap of history for a reason. You talk like you want to try to bring that shit back, you need a serious smack down.
By the end of the year Lars will either have had a complete mental breakdown and/or the Sorros group he works for will stop paying him to troll the site.
So entertaining!
We should be so lucky.
We can only hope.
But, think of poor Joe, the rock climbing hero from the Demoꓘratic Republiꓘ of Boulder, Co. He wouldn’t have anyone to stroke him, after agreeing with Commissar.
Yeah, well, Joey can fuck himself.
That and/or he stops getting extra credit or kiss-ass points with his pissbrained pothead perfessers for the same.
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