News from Venezuela
Erosion is underway in Venezuela’s military. Small groups of military members are retaining their weapons or acquiring them from armories and going off on their own, posting videos addressed to Venezuelans in general to oppose Maduro and his dictatorship.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/world/americas/nicolas-maduro-venezuela-military.html
I see reports that the opposition has given up and others that it has not. Being on the outside looking in, I can’t make a judgment on this, nor would I do so. I would guess that the opposition people, those who protested in the streets, are simply worn to the bone.
However, some of the reports indicate that the newly-elected assembly has now declared itself all-powerful and the opposition congress illegitimate. I can speculate on the direction this will take, because we’ve seen it happen before. But quite frankly, these things don’t end well.
Foreign ministers from 17 Western hemisphere nations are rejecting Venezuela’s new assembly.
Venezuelans are leaving their own country by any means possible. Delta and Avianca suspended their flights to Venezuela at the end of July. I believe that leaves 10 airlines still making stops there.
Avianca has completely suspended all flights to and from Venezuela, while some South American countries are expanding visas for Venezuelans who are leaving the country.
In addition to all of this, Venezuela is on the verge of defaulting on its bond payments.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/07/news/economy/venezuela-debt/index.html
$251 million can just be kissed goodbye, because Maduro doesn’t have it. Citgo’s refineries will not be getting any more Venezuelan oil, so that’s out as a resource. Maduro may have made a deal with Rosneft, but it is not cast in stone.
Without cash, with a bankrupt treasury, Maduro has no money to buy imported foodstuffs like grains. In a country with good farmland, which Venezuela does have, you have to ask why it is dependent on external sources for basic necessities… but then, go back to when Chavez took over and Venezuela stopped being self-sufficient.
Meanwhile, people have been scrounging through trash to find something – anything – to eat for weeks while that fat slob Maduro sits in his palace, stuffing himself.
Category: Reality Check
I wonder if Maduro will end up like Ceaucescu, or if he’ll be smart enough to grab the whole treasury and didi-mau to someplace far, far away.
Good question. Just because the opposition voters aren’t in the streets now, it does not mean they won’t be there later on.
Where’s Commissar??? Shouldn’t he be posting here, to tell us how we’re all just reading this wrong, and as his hero Burnout says, this is an example of how a socialist paradise should work????
He is too busy wetting his bed, I’m sure he will be here later when the sheets dry!
probably… or maybe he’s just too involved on the NK thread, and isn’t capable of looking at two at a time…of course that little glue sniffer joey is here as well.. it’s kinda like whack-a-mole today…
Maduro is Bernie Sanders’ brother from a different mother.
There was a third brother named Danny Ortega. Ancestry dot com is trying to sort it all out.
Those so called rebels, I call them Venezuelan Patriots! They know what freedom is, or was and they know what a democracy is supposed to be like…they will fight, they will kill that p.o.s. muduro and is ass kissing generals that are afraid of losing their titles…! imo There are politicians in this country that are damned lucky the same hasn’t happened here!!
J. why are my posts still being moderated after all this time??
Because I don’t trust you to be unsupervised.
You trust any of us when we are unsupervised?
(Well, beside Ex-PH2, Hondo, and Dave.)
Naw, he still looks over my shoulder and I frequently get my head smacked.
Yeah, I wondered that myself, but he went apeshit over North Korea, an image that will be difficult to get rid of.
He’s practically frothing at the mouth over it. Now he’s mired in his own goo.
He went down to blog live from Venezuela, but there is no power. Like all good communists, he failed to think through the issues. he’s having a good chug about now, nothing else to do.
What is perplexing to me is how so many still think Socialism is still the way to go.
Like, how many failed examples do they need!?
But the next one will always work better… won’t it?
Of course it will, Ex. Because the right people will finally be in charge. Just ask the Bernout, or his acolyte.
Maduro’s bleeding-heart supporters in the U.S. are absolutely convinced that all of the reports of starvation, brutal slaughter of protestors, etc. are fake news. (See the Jackpine Radicals site for an example.)
I would expect that coming from them. But the photos that are appearing of people scrounging through trash to find anything at all to eat are not posed or faked. There is next to nothing on store shelves and food is being controlled by Maduro through the military.
You know that, and I know that, but these idiots still insist that it’s all fake.
Can you describe what socialism is?
Can you describe what market socialism is?
How about the Northern European model?
How about the Rhine model?
How about Third Way capitalism?
How about Mixed Market economies?
Can you see the differences between these models?
Can you name some “socialist” countries? Are those that use the Northern European model or Rhine model even on that list of “socialist” countries?
Can you tell identify any differences between what you think socialism is, and what people who “advocate socialism” in the US advocate?
So far I have yet to see anyone on this board actually demonstrate that have a damn clue what socialism is. And most just lump it together with communism.
And when they say crap like why anyone would advocate socialism they have no clue what the people advocating “socialism” actually advocate.
During the post war period after WWII the US was essentially a mixed market and heavily socialist economy. The top marginal tax rate was 91%. We had massive wealth redistribution mechanisms.
I am not saying what we had then was a good system. But the hate you have for people that want to move back toward a system that better supported greater middle class prosperity and healthy local economies makes no sense to me.
Chances are you graduated high school in that system. Had low cost access to college in that system. And most of the economic opportunities that shaped your life and made you so fond of our economic system was during the period where the system we once had is closer to what the people you hate as asking us to consider returning to.
Communism: in theory, a utopian governmental model by Marx and Engels. It assumes, in contravention to human nature, that people will willingly work for the common good if they jointly own the “means of production”. It’s catchphrase is “From each according to his ability; to each according to his need.” In practice, every implementation attempted has uniformly led to a police-state dictatorship with zero respect for human rights, an abysmal record of supporting other thuggish dictators, and the murder of over 140 million of its own citizens – outside of war.
Socialism: in effect, “Communism-lite”. In theory, it allows some degree of personal and economic freedom, but also relies on communal control or ownership of means of production. In practice, it fails when the government robs Peter to pay Paul to the point that Peter says, “Eff it” and quits trying to earn a living. Then the whole damn shebang goes Tango Uniform.
Hope you were taking notes, Commissar. I expect to be cited if you use that in the future.
First, not sure why you mentioned communism at all. And you left out the “no government” part of communism which would mean that the “communist” countries you are referring to were not actually communist in practice. To be fair there are were actual capitalist countries either. Second, socialism is no where near communism lite. You left out the part where wealth allocation based on individual productivity – which is the central tenet of socialism. So the robbing Peter to pay Paul does not happen since Peter would actually get what he earned so it would not need to be taken from Paul. Instead of the various systems where the elite take most of the wealth for themselves and then complain that Peter wants a fair wage. Of course there are no actual socialist systems either. All the countries that claim capitalism, socialism, communism etc are all using the terms for political propaganda purposes. None of them actually have those models. Though a few came somewhat closer than others. Third you ignored all of the models I listed. Which are models COUNTRIES ACTUALLY HAVE. And unless you are prepared to say the German Rhine model is a “failure”, or the Northern European models (all of which score higher than the US in EVERY SINGLE MEASURE OF QUALITY OF LIFE WITHOUT A SINGLE EXCEPTION; including freedom) are failures. And Canada is no economic failure either. Technically our constitution intended a mixed market economy given the specific powers it explicitly gave to the federal government. We do not have a capitalism system in the US. We never did. We went from a mercantilist system to a mixed economy and all we have done is changed the mechanisms of competition and the mechanisms for the distribution of wealth within the model. Eventually we jumped the shark to a financial market economy which is a house of cards built from a rigged deck. Our current model has resulted in the destruction of the middle class and in an era of campaign finance the destruction of the middle class in relative size and wealth has led… Read more »
HEY Babbles McButthead, Bernie Sanders once hemmed and hawed about just what an awesome system Venezuela has, ditto with Sean Penn among other shithead leftists. Didn’t work out so well, did it?
“The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” – Lady Margaret Thatcher
Well, I see you took the bait – yet again.
Are you EVER going to develop the ability to recognize sarcasm, or develop a sense of humor?
It is Socialism that is idiotic.
Like used cat litter, you can mix it with all sorts of other stuff, and it all winds up… crap.
All those mixed modes mentioned are just steps on the path to despotism and destruction.
Communism -promises- that once full Socialism is achieved the state will fade away, but delivers only the Gulag and mass starvation.
Socialism, State control of the Means of production, is a regurgitation of Slavery, where all are effectively slaves to a tiny privileged group. But the goal is always the same, tend the failures always inevitable, because the premises are batshit crazy.
But always, always, there are those who think themselves smart enough, or ruthless enough, to -finally- make it all work out. And if they have to smartly and ruthlesssly kill millions? They just figure the Radiant Future end justifies the massacre means. And the true-believing twits serve them willingly, eager to bootlick for the privilege of being the “house” slaves, while telling themselves and everybody how greatly they serve “the People”.
Well, I’ll chime in with this:
Any system – call it by whatever “ism” makes you happy – that depends on taking what I have earned and giving it to people who have not earned it, is not going to be a system I support.
I do not refer to things done for the common good, such as hospitals, schools, roadways, etc. These things I gladly contribute toward, as I am one of the many able to use and enjoy them.
No, I mean the process of taking from me just to give to others – or, as you might call it, “wealth redistribution.” The government has no goddamn right to take what I earn and give it to people who won’t earn their own.
And I don’t care what “ism” you stick on it.
Very well put, CM!
There you have it, folks – direct from Der Commissar. Truman and Eisenhower presided over a Socialist state! Thus spake the Omniscient, Infallible Commissar!
News flash for ya, amigo: the concept of “social ownership” – which as I recall is a bedrock principle of Socialist theory – excludes both equity ownership by investors and private concerns that employ wage-earning workers. So outside of the relatively few actual employee-owned cooperative enterprises, the rare companies with ESOPs, and the relatively few government enterprises that existed during the period 1945-1960, I’d be quite interested in knowing what US economic enterprises from that period you think were “socially owned”.
Commissar, you simple minded PRICK! YOU are reaping the benefits of this capitalistic society you despise so much, you freaking hypocrite, GTF out of this country if you don’t like it, see if any country in the world wants to hear your idiotic communist brainwashed BULLSHYT!
After reading all the above, gahhDAM I am glad I got off the computer early yesterday
“I would guess that the opposition people, those who protested in the streets, are simply worn to the bone.”
It’s difficult to maintain your enthusiasm when you’re constantly hungry.
The peasants in Paris rioted because there was no grain available to make their staple food, bread. There was no grain because a drought had struck France in 1788 and continued into 1789. No rain, no grain. What little the farmers did manage to bring in, they kept for themselves. The average French peasant spent half his daily wages on bread. No grain, no bread.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/when-food-changed-history-the-french-revolution-93598442/
There is the distinct possibility that, owing to Maduro’s incompetence, the same thing will happen again. If the military is beginning to ebb away from him, he’s losing support. It will be worse if someone stumbles across food stores that Maduro and his cronies are getting when others are starving.
So on Jan.21st,1793, King Louis XVI says to Marie Antoinette as they were heading down to the guillotine- Well it looks like it’s going to be a “DOUBLE HEADER’ today.
That’s when the brilliant queen when told the peasants were hungry and revolting, said “let them eat cake!”
Knock off the reductionist bullshit. It just sounds like propaganda. Venezuela under Hugo Chavez reached its highest level GDP in its history. Which is not saying much. Venezuela went into social collapse because Hugo Chavez died, and oil prices plummeted a year later. Dooming a system that was dependent on Chavez popularity and support and the revenue from oil. And Chavez replacement; Nicolás Maduro is acting like a despot and dismantling the democratic institutions which undermines the credibility and popularity of the government even further. Venezuela is an extraction economy. Its prosperity is directly tied to the value of the extracted resources on the international commodities market (which is volatile and heavily manipulated). Since this was an extraction economy its wealth was not tied to actual genuine labor force productivity. It was determined by the export of its primary natural resource; oil. And since oil represents half the country’s GDP and 95% of its exports its economy has no stabilizing buffers to absorb price drops in the oil market. So the type of economy it had largely just determines the wealth distribution based on the sale of a national resources. When it was more capitalist the national resources primarily went to the hands of a wealthy elite that “owned” the countries resources. As a more socialist economy that wealth was more distributed among the population through social programs. But NEITHER economic system was a functional socialist or capitalist system. There was no real competition and innovation or anything resembling a functional capitalist system. It was merely an extraction economy with centralized wealth. The socialist system’s economy was no better. Where socialism advocates wealth be distributed based on CONTRIBUTION to the society or economy the distribution of resources was based on NEED and an EQUITY system that did not take into account economy contribution. So there was no incentive system to drive prosperity. To claim this is a failure of socialism or capitalism is false. It is a failure all extraction economies face and why most extraction economies have either weak and unstable governments with frequent revolutions and coups or they… Read more »
Ding ding ding! He has arrived.
Venezuela under Chavez had a high GDP because oil was at an all-time high in a bubble market that imploded and crashed and has not recovered.
If you weren’t such an ignoramus running on an inflated ego, COMMISSAR Commissar YOU INCREDIBLE MORON, you would know that. Dependence on one product – in this case, crude oil – is a fatal mistake in any economic system.
Do go on making an uninformed, egocentric ass of yourself in public. It just enhances the dim view people take of everything that you post as comments.
You repeated what I said as a rebuttal to what I said.
Then called me an ignoramus. God damn you are stupid.
Well bless your little pea pickin’ heart! Everyone’s ganging up on you for no reason.
No, I said it first, commissar shit-for-brains, and YOU copied me because you haven’t had an original idea since before you were conceived, clowndog.
I’d bet next week’s newspaper costs that you steal everything you spew from other people, and never credit anyone, EVER.
Don’t you have cars to chase?
The advocates for the idiocy of Socialism will do anything to distract from the State mismanagement of resources, blaming everything except the idiots who think you can decouple wealth creation from ownership. They think the organization fo the state isn’t directly related to huge mismanagement, political support purchases, plum job assignments to the connected nomenklatura, etc.
And all the more they crank up thier system, the more it falls to pieces. Always of course the blame on outside saboteurs and wreckers, never on the asinine premises and resultant moonbat system.
There used to be a saying “Rich as an Argentine”. The gold reserves of Argentina were one of the largest in the world. Even the Argentine peasants were fairly well off, by the standards of South American Peasant poverty. Then a fellow called Peron socialized the economy, and he and his harpie sidekick drove their nation into poverty with e double-barrel of Socialism and Corruption, ruining economically what they didn’t loot personally.
Venezuela is just another round of economic sodomy, courtesy of Marx and his various Socialist true believers and bootlicks.
Ex, why do you keep feeding this dumbass troll?
You may have noticed that I never comment on his pseudo-intellectual gas baggery. I never even read his comments because he proved early on that he had nothing to contribute to any of our discussions. I get more out of the rebuttals to him than from wasting my time trying to make sense of his DNC/CPUSA talking point propaganda. While it may be fun for you to argue with him, you are really wasting your time for he is too indoctrinated to ever understand how wrong he is. He is obviously starved for attention, let him starve to death. I do.
That’s a valid question, Roger. I have a good friend who told me the same thing, let him starve for it. But there was that moment of strange calm yesterday when he was reasonably well-mannered, until something set him off – don’t know what – and it all went downhill from there.
I’m considering all my options. It is interesting to find out just how obnoxious he becomes.
Why in hell aren’t the communistczar’s post moderated?
Because he doesn’t use racist terms and threaten people’s lives.
And who is the wealthiest woman in Venezuela? Chavez’ daughter. And I wonder how she gained all of that wealth? “Wealth Redistribution”, I’m guessing.
I am also against political corruption.
Corruption is not a “socialist” thing. And I am not defending socialism. You guys just keep trying to frame the discussion that way. My argument was that BOTH socialism and capitalism failed in Venezuela because fundamentally it has a flawed and unstable extraction economy.
Carlos Andrés Pérez the president during much of the capitalist made much of his money through political corruption as well.
His net more was more than $1B net worth in 1990 (over $2B in 2017 dollars). He also had eight children. I do not know their net worth.
And apparently Hugo Chavez net for at the time of his death was about $1B.
Commissar, you dimwitted PRICK, capitalism didn’t fail in Venezuela until communism came …WTF is wrong with snowflake?
In a single day Mr. Maduro promoted 195 officers to the rank of general. Venezuelan generals, more than 2,000 strong, enjoy a range of privileges, from lucrative control of the food supply to favorable rates for exchanging dollars.
————————–
aha…. military modeled after the norkanese system; head-chopping next week.
Firing squads on weekends, perhaps?
To be fair. If we are going to choose to ignore the collapse of oil prices and blame the economic failures in Venezuela on socialism.
We also have to ignore oil prices, which collapsed in the 80s, and blame the Venezuela collapse in the 1980s on capitalism.
Or we can just recognize that it is because Venezuela has an extraction economy dependent on oil exports which represent 50% of its GDP and 95% of its exports and the price of oil collapsed. Which resulted in economic collapse. Both times.
In raw terms, Venezuela’s GDP is higher today. But so is it’s population. Because of that, GDP alone tells us diddly-squat about how much better/worse the average Venezuelan is today vice earlier years.
A far more meaningful figure is GDP per capita, expressed in real terms vice current-year dollars. As someone who claims expertise in economics, you should know that. Seems to me that means your use of raw GDP above shows either superficial knowledge of the subject area or an intentional attempt to mislead.
Real GDP per capita tells a very different story. That shows Venezuela’s economic peak, in terms of real GDP per capita, was in the late 1970s. In real terms, Venezuela’s GDP per capita never reached those levels under Chavez. It’s been falling like a stone since 2013, likely due to Maduro’s extreme economic mismanagement since Chavez’s death.
Venezuela’s real GDP per capita is now at early-1960s levels. See the max chart available at
https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/gdp-per-capita
“From each according to his ability; to each according to his need.” Unless you’re a Maduro crony – then you get whatever you like. Simply socialism in action, Commissar.
You final quote is communism, not socialism. Man you literally just studied for this quiz and got it wrong right out the gate.
I said the the GDP figure is not saying much because it is an extraction economy and it was based on oil revenues.
And you were exceedingly disingenuous in claiming “Venezuela’s real GDP now is at early-1960s levels”. That was a bullshit logical slight of hand because IT IS AN AGREED FACT THAT THE CURENT ECONOMY IS COLLAPSED. I never claimed otherwise.
So quoting the current collapsed economy as a rebuttal to the statement I made about the PREVIOUS state of the economy is bullshit.
What I said is that UNDER HUGO CHAVEZ the GDP reached an all time high. In per capita terms the GDP under Hugo Chavez was NEAR it alls time high set before the collapse in the 80s.
But like I said, Venezuela GDP does not say much. Because it is not actually a reflection of genuine economic activity and really just a graph of the price of oil. They are perfectly correlated.
Just look at the current poverty and hunger in Venezuela and REMEMBER THAT Chavez’s Daughter is currently THE richest person in that country. Coincidence? Happenstance? What is Socialism other than yet another Ponzi scheme where wealth gets concentrated among a chosen inner circle while everyone else suffers and starves?
So, you admit you (1) knew better statistics (real GDP per capita) existed, but (2) instead intentionally used a misleading statistic (raw GDP, which is affected by inflation) anyway.
Could it be you did that in order to deceive readers concerning Venezuela’s economic performance under Chavez? That is, you chose raw GDP to mislead others into believing, falsely, that Chavez’s Socialism was responsible for giving Venezuela the highest standard of living it ever seen?
Yeah, that’s what I thought. I suspected as much, but wanted to make sure. Thanks for the confirmation.
Hey Moron…Communism and socialism are one and the same, the russian General in the ’30’s coined the term socialism because they knew americans would not accept communism…you are a phucking teacher? I don’t believe it, who in hell would hire YOU?
I have a GREAT idea.
Not likely.
Holy crap. Jon?
Did you actually edit my post and then use it to troll me?
Someone with admin privileges did.
What are you talking about?
Are you hallucinating now?
My original post was;
“Not Likely”
It was changed to
“Not Likely”
“But he will all buy is popcorn so while we watch his head implode”.
Now it has been changed back.
Ten Bears, it all depends on if you believe with geometric logic that the missing strawberries were because of two keys to the wardroom icebox…
Ten Bears says commissar is deluded and crazy man. Cannot spell, either.
At least Queeg could claim PTS. Lars is just a shitbird.
Watch me, shit-for-brains.
Sure, I will watch.
As long as your a fully clothed with a bag over your head, and the lights are off.
What did you say, you piece of shit?
Typical liberal downward spiral when they run out of “logic”. Sure he wasn’t part of the violent protest at his “skool”.
comissar is clear on how he despises women.
No, I like women a lot.
And I am pretty equal opportunity when it comes to women.
I also have pretty low standards so most women meet them.
Unfortunately, Ex-PH2 does not.
No, you mental midget control freak, your standard is pissing on anyone who doesn’t knuckle under to your commie-socialismo diatribe crap.
You demand respect but aren’t willing to give it. Anyone who openly disagrees with you is trash, and too stupid to live. So who died and made you God? There are plenty of people here who are miles ahead of you in experience and education and brains.
No, you do not respect women. You despise them. If you didn’t despise women, you overbearing pussified slacker pissant, you wouldn’t treat Ex-PH2 like shit the way you do, not to mention all the other people you shit on, every chance you get. You can’t stand it when Ex-PH2 or anyone else stands up to you and gives you a verbal rebuttal, because you’ve decided that she and the rest of the people who post comments here couldn’t possibly know anything at all, when in fact, they all know a lot more than you do about a lot of things.
You are nothing but an ignoramus with a keyboard and a crapweasel, big time.
Everyone here is tired of you and your fucking, worthless, superiority complex shit. Preaching your political crap and then slamming anyone who disagrees with you is a sure sign of a weak, craven, cowardly egomaniac who runs roughshod over everyone he can trample.
You aren’t just a social moron. You look for every possible chance to pick a fight over nothing and you keep losing. This isn’t a classroom. You aren’t a professor of anything. You’re just an unemployed coffee-sucking slacker with nothing to do but pick fights, and all over nothing but your shit-assed, weak, control freak ego. You couldn’t find your brain with both hands and a flashlight because it’s stuck so far up your ass it will never see daylight.
Go find some place else to flaunt your shit. Everyone here is sick of you and your fucking shit. Just fuck off and die, asshole.
The next time you decide to be rude as fuck to Ex-PH2 or anyone else, DON’T. Just don’t.
GO back through the comment history.
I actually LIKED and RESPECTED EX-PH2 in the beginning.
But she was one of the first to be vitriolic toward me.
And she is the one that does it more often than any other member of this board. And nine times out of ten she has nothing substantive to argue. It is just one or two lines of name calling and telling me to fuck off.
And she more than any other member of this board seeks out my posts to make pointless name calling attacks.
In fact the MAJORITY of interaction between her and I are initiated by HER attacking me.
So don’t fucking WHITE KNIGHT her like a little fucking cuck.
I am treating her like she treats me. Like shit. Because she fucking earned it.
And my points are dismissed as “stupid” as readily as you claim I dismiss others as “stupid”.
If you are going to pass judgement on me then pay more attention to my first posts of the day.
And the responses to them.
I usually lay out my position without attacking anyone. I disagree with the consensus on the board almost every time. But I merely argue my position.
And immediately get attacked.
Usually with people calling me names and dismissing me as a moron.
Hell, I don’t even have to show up to a thread and people are already calling me a moron for points they IMAGINE I hold on the issue.
I don’t know how many times I have stopped by a thread that I had not posted on. Seen a bunch of nonsense and name calling about me and decided it was not worth my time and moved on.
I remember commissar using the “I like to date Asian women” post to prove he was not racist.
I never did that.
That is how you spun it.
But I never did that.
Just like you never said “400%,” eh, Lars?
Couldn’t have been him, TOW – because he’s “one of the few that actually tries to provide sources and check my facts.“
“I like women a lot.”
Yeah, so did Ted Bundy.
This is 9+ minutes long so scan through it as you see fit and just TRY to tell me that this doesn’t fit ‘ol Babbles McButthead aka Commissar to a “T”:
It’s been a while since I’ve seen one of these commercials.
Once again, Commissar proves himself to be as intelligent and valuable to the advancement of humanity as Lena Dunham’s twat.
But here’s the question regarding Lena Dunham…would IDC SARC hit it?
I’d hit it…..I’ve married worse.
Question answered…thanks Doc.
Two questions:
1: Did it happen in Vegas?
2: How much alcohol are we talking about?