Springsteen: I was a stone cold draft dodger
Mick sends us a link to Fox News in which they quote mediocre performer Bruce Springsteen as he whines about how tough it was for him to avoid the draft during the Vietnam years;
Bruce Springsteen said writing his song “Born in the U.S.A” helped him cope with his mixed feelings about dodging the draft during the Vietnam War.
“I had some friends, very close friends of mine…guys who came home in wheelchairs, and then, I didn’t go,” the singer told Tom Hanks at Tribeca Film Festival event Friday, “I was a stone-cold draft dodger.”
Springsteen explained he pulled “everything in the draft-dodger’s text book.”
“So, perhaps, I felt guilty about that later on. I had friends who went. I had friends who went and died. I had friends later on who were seriously hurt,” he continued.
He decided he needed to “come to terms with myself” and sing about what he had done.
From UPI
“I pulled the whole ‘Alice’s Restaurant.’ ‘I’m sorry, sir. I don’t understand what you are saying because I am high on LSD.’ I did everything in the draft-dodger’s text book,” Springsteen recalled.
So, he was just a fricken coward. I don’t think I ever gave him a penny anyway – he never impressed me with what he thinks is talent. The picture above is from when former President Obama awarded Springsteen the Presidential Medal of Freedom last year.
Category: Liberals suck
Even Ted Nugent spent the draft years as a self made 4F.
So the difference between Springsteen and Nugent is that Nugent is both a coward AND a hypocrite, since he’s such a flag waving, pro-war “patriot” now.
I never jumped on the Ted Nugent bandwagon either. I was sitting with a bunch of Vietnam veteran friends in the Howard AFB snackbar on January 21, 1977 when we heard the news that Jimmy Carter had pardoned all of the draft dodgers. A life changing moment for me.
That would be like almost his first official act as president. Did not remember that.
His only other one was giving away the Panama canal.
It was the first thing he did in office the day after his Inauguration.
“A life changing moment for me”
I cried like a broken man.
Word
I was just a tad too young to be drafted, but my brother was.
He most definitely did not want to go to Vietnam, and he told me that he thought about going to Canada. He didn’t cause he “wanted to be able to come back to his country.”
So, he spent 16 months in country as an artilleryman.
What a sucker! Right?
I was pissed when Carter pulled that shit, but I was over the fucking moon livid when those fuckers who had gone to Sweden etc. came back as HEROES!!!!!!! Fucking hippies cheering their return while the vets at best were ignored.
I still get red hot angry when I think about it.
Just that action makes Carter the worst President ever for me.
My father in law was a seriously dyed-in-the-wool yellow-dog Democrat…who abstained in 1980 because even he found Carter’s blanket pardon unforgivable. Luckily, Jimmie C provided so much more to work with in his term that this no longer ranks as the low point in his term.
I’ve only voted once as a Democrat. During the 1980 primaries, I registered as a Democrat so I could vote against that fuckhead Carter.
To my continuing shame, I voted for Ted Kennedy who is an eternal embarrassment to my Irish American community.
After that primary, I immediately switched back to Republican.
Always said they shot the wrong Kennedy(s).
No..the vets weren’t ignored, we were called baby killers, spit on, cussed etc…scum of the same ilk as the clintons!
1977, not 1976.
Obozo giving that scumbag a medal of freedom, when the cowardly prick never spent one minute defending that freedom! Obozo’s kind of jerk!
One of the worst days of my life. I couldn’t believe we got another huge slap in the face along with a swift kick in the groin. The beginning of the end of America.
Ya mean when pussy grabber got elected though losing by 3 million votes
Actually, the High Times story was all bullshit, made up by Ted to give them a wild story to play with. Never happened.
An analysis of Ted Nugent’s Selective Service classification record: He did indeed receive a high school student deferment (1-S) in 1967 and then (as he stated) a college student deferment (2-S) in 1968. However, he was reclassified as “available for military service” (1-A) in 1969 and then subsequently rejected as a result of a physical examination and given a 1-Y classification. (The 1-Y classification denoted persons “qualified for service only in time of war or national emergency” and was generally assigned to registrants who had exhibited medical conditions that were limiting but not disabling.) After the 1-Y classification was eliminated by the Selective Service at the end of 1971, Nugent was reclassified as 4-F (“registrant not qualified for any military service”).
If his High Times story were true, the 4-F would have been automatic, and not assigned a 1-Y.
That doesn’t mean he was a dodger! My uncle tried to enlist in the Navy in WWII, but was rejected 4F because of a heart murmur..which didn’t mean a damned thing, he lived to be in his 90’s!!
Google ted nugent. He crapped is pants not to go in.
I love his music,but he is not a true patirot.
I served in Vietnam for 13 mpnths and 9 days. I was 1A, so I went in.
Another coward with old man regrets. But he loves making some bucks singing about America, while looking down on real Americans.
http://www.chicksontheright.com/attention-bruce-springsteen-you-are-a-moron/
Nothing more you can say about this. BS has to live with his conscious and if bothers him…..well TFB.
His initial are BS?
Hahaha……HAHAHAHA
That washed-up has-been’s political comments put him on my “FUCK, NO!” list years ago alongside the likes of Sean Penn and I’ve boycotted him since.
A marxist presenting a medal to a coward for helping to destroy America; how fitting…
Is this a great country or what. (snark)
Whats yer combat history and what did it achieve. Zones, do ya have even cib.
I heard trump is hanging on putins onion tower and its huuge…
Who?
Another Jonn will recognize as one of the, “Hollywood Halfwits.”
As I recall, Springsteen’s from New Jersey – the Monmouth area. So wouldn’t “Jersey Jerk” or “Asbury Park A-Hole” be more descriptive?
BTW of all the self-confessed draft dodgers who occupy places in public life, to my knowledge only P.J. O’Rourke has ever made a public apology of it, in the introduction of his book “Give War a Chance.”
It’s well worth reading, and the main reason it’s worth reading is that O’Rourke is the only draft dodger who seems to have publicly admitted that because he dodged the draft, someone else went in his place.
Pat Conroy in his book My Losing Season made such an admission. A brief quote from the book follows. “It was that same long night, after listening to Al’s story, that I began to make judgments about how I had conducted myself during the Vietnam War. In the darkness of the sleeping Kroboth household, lying in the third-floor guest bedroom, I began to assess my role as a citizen in the ’60s, when my country called my name and I shot her the bird. Unlike the stupid boys who wrapped themselves in Viet Cong flags and burned the American one, I knew how to demonstrate against the war without flirting with treason or astonishingly bad taste. I had come directly from the warrior culture of this country and I knew how to act. But in the 25 years that have passed since South Vietnam fell, I have immersed myself in the study of totalitarianism during the unspeakable century we just left behind. I have questioned survivors of Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen, talked to Italians who told me tales of the Nazi occupation, French partisans who had counted German tanks in the forests of Normandy, and officers who survived the Bataan Death March. I quiz journalists returning from wars in Bosnia, the Sudan, the Congo, Angola, Indonesia, Guatemala, San Salvador, Chile, Northern Ireland, Algeria. As I lay sleepless, I realized I’d done all this research to better understand my country. I now revere words like democracy, freedom, the right to vote, and the grandeur of the extraordinary vision of the founding fathers. Do I see America’s flaws? Of course. But I now can honor her basic, incorruptible virtues, the ones that let me walk the streets screaming my ass off that my country had no idea what it was doing in South Vietnam. My country let me scream to my heart’s content–the same country that produced both Al Kroboth and me. Now, at this moment in New Jersey, I come to a conclusion about my actions as a young man when Vietnam was a dirty word to me. I wish I’d led… Read more »
Pat was a personal friend of mine, and his dad too. His sister is my wife’s best friend. In the few discussions we had he made no qualms about admitting how bad he felt about chickening out during the war. I never gave him “absolution”, but admired that he could at least admit his guilt. At least he never became a wannabee. His dad, on the other hand, never forgave him for not going into the Corps. He also wasn’t as bad as Pat portrayed, according to his sister. Don, “The Great Santini”, didn’t know they named the bar in the O club at MCAS Beaufort after him until I took him there for a drink. As for Springstein, that tough motorcycle jacket wearing “Fonzie”, can kiss my ass eternally.
First, I have to say that I was a Springsteen fan, back when there was an E Street band and I was young and crazy. It was also before Brucesteen decided that the world needed to know his politics. Way back way, the music was about mean streets, carefree days, rippin’ and runnin’, w/some chick issues thrown in for good measure. I would not turn the dial (as we used to say) were Pink Cadillac to come on the car radio, but I wouldn’t listen to him talk about anything. As for his personally knowing men who came home in wheel chairs, men who were seriously injured but not needing a wheelchair, and men who never came home alive from Vietnam, I say bullshit. Does he think his point is better made if he says he knew such men personally? Dollars to donuts he couldn’t name one of each, perhaps one of any category.
Anything after Born to Run is pretty shit in my opinion. I remember when Nebraska came out. I pretty tuned him out after that. A friend of mine, who has in recent years exposed himself as a die hard leftie, has gone to bunches of his concerts. I don’t think I could stomach one.
I’ll bet the only one he could name is LT Dan; and then only because he saw “Forrest Gump.”
I live in NJ, and Bruce is literally worshipped here….not by me and a couple of my friends, one of my friends actually punched him in the mouth in 74, Brucie was hitting on my friends girl friend at the time at the Stone Pony. I myself as a blues guitar player never cared much for his playing style and never could hear what the big deal was in his song writing or playing and the stage act seemed tedious at best…
Old Bruce is like many manufactured “stars” in a nation of sheep … people “revere” him because they are told that they “revere” him.
I had the same thought, 2/17. It’s the same reasons posers have the “he died in my arms” story. They think it gives some legitimacy to their made up bullshit.
When and what ops did you serve. When and where . I smell shit.did you serve in combat .
I liked Springsteen when he sang about the little guy without getting explicitly political. If he’d just retired and shut his trap after releasing “The River”, he’d have left behind a very fine musical legacy.
In a way, maybe old Bruce has experienced some tough times…if you believe in the old adage:
“A brave man dies once, but a coward dies a thousand times.”
“A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once…”
― William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
I was never a fan of his. I was more of a R.E.M, B-52’s, The Cult, & Husker Du guy in the 80’s. He can go away now.
R.E.M.
Losing my religion.
Shiny happy people.
Play it often.
26Limabeans, HT3 ’83-’87: You guys do know that Stipe (primary songwriter for REM) is just as much a leftist libidiot as Springsteen – right? Along with a sh!tload of others in the music business?
Not saying you shouldn’t listen – hell, I like REM’s stuff from about 1986 to about 1995 too. But do listen knowing that they’re absolutely as clueless about the real world and politics as Springsteen.
Springsteen was always some my friend’s older brothers and sisters listened to…boring! I know most entertainers are left of center, and some all the way past nut-job. I always knew Stipe was gay, but that’s his business. The tunes had a beat & you could dance to it which is all early 20’s me cared about. Plus, all the artsy coeds at ODU loved that music. We’d hit places like The King’s Head, The Boathouse, and TCC’s where those girls could be found by the bushel. Who are they going to choose: a broke-ass college dork or some world traveler in his gloss black Mustang GT with money to spend? Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Most of the music I like is written and performed by “libidiots”.
BS is an especially aggravating jerk and I do not listen to him or his so called music.
I like Merle Haggard’s music. A lot.
Some people don’t because he loved America.
Agreed. The music industry seems to be composed largely of leftist fools. If you refuse to listen based on politics, you won’t be listening to much popular music at all.
Listening to an artist’s music doesn’t imply either endorsement of or support for their politics or opinions.
Springsteen was the stuff my friend’s older brothers & sisters listen to…boring! I know most entertainers lean left of center…some even way left of center. I always knew Stipe was gay, but that was his business. I liked those bands because the music “had beat and you could dance to it” which was all early 20’s me cared about at that time. All the artsy coeds at ODU loved it too, so it was easy to meet girls at The King’s Head Inn, The Boathouse, and TCC’s if anybody is familiar with Norfolk/Va. Beach you know what I’m talking about. Who were they going to go out with: a dorky, broke-ass college guy or a worldly traveler with Mustang GT and cash in his pocket? It was like shooting fish in a barrel.
SHIT!!! I screwed the pooch on that one. I hate posting something twice. There has to be a delete button installed on this site one of these days…anyone?
Springsteen provides an excellent example of both “idiot savant” and the “misplaced authority fallacy”.
Springsteen is indeed very talented musically. That fact, while true, is also irrelevant regarding his knowledge of politics. Politically, “he doesn’t know (squat) from Shinola”.
IMO Springsteen’s a classical “idiot savant”: exceptionally talented in one field and an idiot otherwise (or in Springsteen’s case, at least politically). Those who believe in his political pronouncements because of his musical talent are ascribing to him insights he does not possess as well as granting him authority based on competence he does not have. This latter is a textbook example of the “misplaced authority fallacy”.
Remove “savant” and I think you’ve captured him more succinctly…
When the nation called, he wanted none of it, as if those who were drafted did. He should have said, “No” and been prosecuted, done his time, and had been done with it, at least in terms of his legal obligation. Instead, he playacted to escape service. At least he tried to make amends. Wait a second. I’ll just take a moment to see how many concerts he gave for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan….I’m back. Okay, forget I brought that up. Well, he did do the Garden for Home of Heroes last year. That’s almost the same thing.
More dems responded than repubes ta vietnam. Who you shitting. Name one republican who served in infantry unit in vietnam. Mccain didnt have a fucking choice, his pa and grandpa were both admirals and he was too stupid to graduate from hs let alone academy. That was a thank you to his forefathers services. Flying above doesnt take anywhere near the
I don’t mind the music, I can’t understand a fucking word he sings because he always sounds like has marbles in his mouth…never bought his albums, and don’t have any of his music on my playlist…as Jonn states, mediocre music…I never understood the adoration he receives but that doesn’t mean anything because I don’t really understand the worship of celebrity in our culture anyway. I’m sort of a cultural hermit clearly out of touch with most of my fellow Americans.
Springsteen did make a point of pretending to speak for a generation of disenfranchised youth, and pretends to be a guy who understands the hard streets but in reality the guys from the hard streets who were asked went and served their nation. They didn’t run and hide like BS (interesting initials Bruce) and frankly it explains why a lot of his music doesn’t make sense to me. Because it’s from the cowards viewpoint, the guy who thinks the world is fucking him over instead of his own failings preventing him from succeeding.
I’ll give him credit for turning that measure of talent into a multi-million dollar enterprise. Good for him, beyond that I don’t much give a shit how he feels about being a coward now that he has some regrets…the world is filled with regrets, we all have them some are like Mr. Springsteen and others are that we didn’t spend more time making our family and friends aware of just how much they matter to us, and how we wish we could have spent more quality time with them….beyond that who gives a fuck anyway?
Nobody gets out of this shit alive.
“I never understood the adoration he receives”
He is part of the hate America crowd because it saved his ass. They love him because he is so brave to have fooled the man. He is beautiful to them.
“I don’t mind the music, I can’t understand a fucking word he sings because he always sounds like has marbles in his mouth”
I’m thinking it’s someone’s dick in his mouth…
Springsteen sings like he is constipated. Always thought he was the most overrated pop musician of the last 50 years.
One of the most stinging reviews I ever read concerning Springsteen came out about the same time he made it big with “Born to Run”. It said, in effect, that there was a big similarity between Springsteen and Dylan – to wit, that neither could carry a tune in a bucket. However, it said there was one essential difference: Dylan’s talent as a songwriter was sufficient to overcome his voice.
Can’t say I disagree. (smile)
I grew up just across the river from Jersey, so about all you heard was springsteen back in the day. I’ve never thought he was worth a crap, his voice has always sounds like he just finished a pack of smokes, and his stories always seemed like bullshit to me..YMMV
“I was… borrrrrnnn, a P-U-S-S-Y…
Born, as P-U-S-S-Y…
I’m a cock rocking pussy in the USA now.”
He earned that medal of freedom like Obama earned that Nobel…fucking liberal participation trophy
He’s an asshole. End of story.
Now that is an economy of words that perfectly captures him
Who died or was wounded in your place Bruce?
I’ve never liked Bruce Springsteen. Not his crappy music, not his bullshit strutting around and posing as some kind of phony New Jersey working class ‘tough guy’, and certainly not his naïve, uninformed politics.
Over the years, Springsteen has carried a guitar on stage and repeatedly tried to portray himself as a ‘hero’ of the American blue collar/working class, and he has developed a large following which has, foolishly in my opinion, bought into that bogus image.
However, back during the Vietnam years when it was time for him to put down that guitar, and step up and carry a rifle and go out into the jungle in Vietnam and do some real ‘hero’ stuff, he instead chose to be a coward and he did whatever he could to ensure that he wouldn’t have to go to war along with many of the other young men of his generation. It’s despicable.
Now that it has once again become respectable to be a true veteran, I hope that it tears him up inside every day to know that he made a conscious decision to be known forevermore as a cowardly draft dodger, rather than as an honorable Vietnam veteran. On the other hand, to believe that he may actually feel shame about his choice may in fact be ascribing an intellectual capacity and capability for introspection to him that he just simply does not possess. He may genuinely believe that carrying a guitar instead of a rifle somehow makes him a hero.
One final observation. I wonder if that suit jacket that he’s wearing in the photo above has a broad yellow stripe down the back of it. I would be fitting if it did.
* IT would be fitting if it did.
BS is an asshole, I never did like his fucking Jersey music! At least Elvis did his duty, not like this fucking sorry ass coward! I hope you rot in hell ass hamster!!
And Elvis had talent, and a voice… Don’t forget that part
If I am going to listen to Americana rock, I normally listen to Mellencamp. Like his style and message better.
Although he’s even further to the left of Springsteen, if that’s possible.
dunno, I just like JM’s music better.
Stevie Ray Vaughn that dude could play some guitar and sing…and he never put out his politics, he just played and played great , same for J. Giels a very under rated 6 stringer
The only good thing BS ever did was to stop disco.
other than that, I hope that the ghosts of that war haunt him for time immemorial…
Why do these assholes always know someone who came home in a box or is paralyzed for life or some such? Bullshit. It’s like the posing buttwipes who held their best friend in their arms as his brains/stomach/organ of choice seeped out onto them. When I hear that I always know I’m dealing with a posing PoS. BS is just that: BS. He almost seems proud to have been smart enough to wiggle his way out of service. You’re a coward, BS. Someone went b/c you didn’t you smegma slime. Deal with your cowardice while counting your money. You’re no better than the posing pieces of shit we read about almost every day. No. Damn. Better.
I commented above before I saw this. I agree, 100%. You said it better than I did.
Brutal…and for what it is worth, I approve this message
Obummer gave this medal to all of his friends and major donors on the way out of the door.
Ellen DeGeneres? Really?
Classy.
All but Whatshisorherface Jenner.
Looks like the draft isn’t the only thing Springsteen has admitted to dodging. He also appears to be a fan of “tax avoidance”.
http://www.lifezette.com/popzette/bruce-springsteen-admits-to-being-tax-dodger/
This story just keeps on getting better and better.
But hey, he’s ‘The Boss’.
Yep. Both his late 1960s/early 1970s draft dodging and his current “tax avoidance” concerning his NJ home and associated property were/are 100% legal. But IMO they’re pretty much equally unethical.
Agreed.
Heh, even on music I disagree with most here. The Bruce has some fantastic songs – I can’t hear “Born to Run” without belting it out. So what if his politics differ? When we let politics stop us from appreciating good art, we’re losing out.
Orson Scott Card has some views I strongly disagree with. Yet Ender’s Game is a great novel. Clint Eastwood is a fuckin’ legend, and his antics on stage at the RNC a few years ago don’t diminish his movies in the slightest. Tom Cruise is a wacky scientologist for that matter, yet he’s also an incredibly talented actor.
For me it’s generally about the art, not the artist.
That’s my take as well. I like a lot of Springsteen’s stuff up through “The River.” The stuff afterwards I can pretty much take or leave.
Honestly I expect actors, musicians, and artists to be starry-eyed dreamers who don’t live in the real world – I’d be disappointed if they weren’t.
An “artist” who is a hard-headed pragmatist is pretty much an oxymoron.
I’m no more interested in hearing the political viewpoint of actors and musicians than I am in watching politicians try to sing or act, (and that specifically includes so-called “conservative” actors and musicians like Tom Selleck or Ted Nugent.)
An astonishing number of pop musicians and hollywood stars are high-school or college dropouts whose knowledge of the world is vague at best and drawn from a number of highly partisan sources.
If I call a plumber I’m not really interested in his take on the Iran nuclear deal or the best way to fix Obamacare. I just want him to be able to do the job I hired him for. It goes the same for actors and musicians – they’re job is to entertain me and that’s how I judge them.
When their political activities become so much a part of their act or their persona that watching them or listening to them becomes akin to being hectored by a street-corner preacher, that’s usually when I tune out.
Musicians should play and/or sing, take their money and go enjoy it. Actors should act, take their money and go enjoy it. But when they start using their celebrity status as a platform to put out their misinformed and ill ill informed political and social opinions gleaned from the likes of CNN, MSNBC, BuzzFeed and the Huffington Post, then they just lost my sale of whatever they do. People as a whole in this newest generation and the one before are so blinded by their celebrity, they who do not think for themselves anyway, leave it to these tools to tell them what to think. Global warming, racism, the military, politics, you name it, the answer is usually, “well Bruce Springsteen, Ellen DeGeneres, Alec Baldwin, Meryl Streep, ad nauseam, said they think….” So that’s what they believe and that’s how they vote.
I remember when the idiot Ted Danson won some award for Cheers. In his acceptance he stated, “This gives me the credentials to speak out about the environment…bla-bla-bla”, whatever the bullshit was. That is the idiots they are. They think being in the spotlight equates to being, in the know.
Yeah.
His ward was playing with Whoopie.
Sick.
“Musicians should play and/or sing, take their money and go enjoy it. Actors should act, take their money and go enjoy it.”
Amen.
J-Lo blocked me from Twitter after she started going off about President Trump. I tweeted, “You are paid to sing, dance, and shake your big a**. Nobody cares what you think. Hope this helps.” Some people just don’t respond well to constructive feedback.
In my opinion Springstien cashed in on Vietnam Vets with “Born in the USA”.
I know lots of people, including me, thought that he was singing a song about himself when the lyrics were about a Veteran returning from Viet of the Nam having a hard time finding a job when he got home.
OK, but let’s be fair here: in the mid 1980’s when Vietnam suddenly became chic, EVERYBODY was cashing in on Vietnam Vets. Springsteen was by far not the only one nor the most egregious offender.
If this phony jerk ever gets off his phony guilt trip, I’ll be surprised. Not everyone who was drafted ended up in Vietnam. That’s a small but important thing that most people, especially the latent faux guilt trippers, forget. It is fun to embarrass them about it, though.
BS, born 23 September 1949. Pulled down draft lottery number 119 in the big 1 Dec 69 draft.
Declared 4F by the physical. Reasons given were (and take your pick) some of the following:
Filled out forms all wrong by checking the incorrect boxes, claiming insanity with a back-up story of how space aliens flagged him down and asked for directions to the New Jersey Turnpike.
Had went on a three day bender just prior to physical day. No shower, no teeth brushing, smelled to high heaven, was still lit when reporting, etc, etc,.
Only male son.
Had almost crippling leg and skull injuries due to motorcycle accident.
Youse throw the dice and takes your chances.
So, the guy is a money thirsty communist draft and tax dodger. Why am I not surprised.
TED NUGENT
Possibly the most famous of the draft dodgers only because he bragged about getting out of the war in the magazine “High Times” in 1977. He told the magazine that he got out of going to Vietnama by not showering for a month prior to his induction. The week before, he started urinating and defecating in his jeans. This is how he showed up to the draft board. Pretty disgusting. He told the same story to the Detroit Free Press in 1990. It also was brought up on the internet the past few years as Nugent became a strong supporter of right-wing politics. Since then, being a leader in the NRA and a conservative talk show host, Nugent has retracted what he said stating that he made the whole thing up. According to his new story, he had a student deferment at the time and he thought the High Times reporter was gullible. He didn’t comment on why he told the same story 13 years later…
BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN
When Bruce Springsteen of the E Street Band had his draft number called, he went to the draft board as he was supposed to do. Once there, he was able to use a concussion that he suffered in a motorcycle accident the year prior as a means of avoiding the draft. This may not have gotten him off the hook, alone. In 1984, Springsteen told Rolling Stone magazine that “…his “crazy” behavior at induction and refusing to take the tests was enough to get him a 4F (incapable of military service on the grounds of physical, mental, or moral standards.) [Source: Rolling Stone, December 6, 1984]
From the time I was a small child, I was taught that when the whistle blows, you’re supposed to get up and go stand in line. It’s unlikely everyone, including Springsteen, was raised the same way. Then too, there tended to be a different kind of peer pressure in those days, and if you were the kind of high school kid who hung with, say, an athletic crowd, the likelihood of winding up in Viet Nam was probably better than for another kid who ran with the glee club.
Something else to consider, at least the way I remember it, is those of us in Viet Nam didn’t usually carry a high degree of rancor towards those who had refused to go. The best way to describe things was that if somebody did not have the stones to serve when called, they were not somebody you wanted around because they would probably freak out in a fight. It wasn’t a matter of having contempt for thwm as much as not thinking about them at all.
Then too, I’m reminded of some words from Jack London about why some stay home and others don’t:
“I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time.”
I have a woody reading that
For one thing, this isn’t news- Bruce has been saying essentially the same thing for decades: (from 1984): “I got a 4-F. I had a brain concussion from a motorcycle accident when I was seventeen. Plus, I did the basic Sixties rag, you know: fillin’ out the forms all crazy, not takin’ the tests. When I was nineteen, I wasn’t ready to be that generous with my life. I was called for induction, and when I got on the bus to go take my physical, I thought one thing: I ain’t goin’…” “…And it was funny, because my father, he was in World War II, and he was the type that was always sayin’, “Wait till the army gets you. Man, they’re gonna get that hair off of you. I can’t wait. They gonna make a man outta you.” We were really goin’ at each other in those days. And I remember I was gone for three days, and when I came back, I went in the kitchen, and my folks were there, and they said, “Where you been?” And I said, “Well, I had to go take my physical.” And they said, “What happened?” And I said, “Well, they didn’t take me.” And my father sat there, and he didn’t look at me, he just looked straight ahead. And he said, “That’s good.” It was, uh . . . I’ll never forget that. I’ll never forget that.” Also, for decades he’s talked about his friends that died in Vietnam: “…My drummer in The Castiles went – and he died. I remember a fella was the best front man in New Jersey at the time, Walter Cichone, and he joined the Marines and was posted missing in action, and on the street people were frightened and everybody was trying to figure out how to get out of the draft.” In the end, he dodged the draft. I’ve known this for years, as have most music fans. I find it interesting that this open secret outrages people to this day, yet we were able to collectively overlook the draft avoidance techniques… Read more »
Congratulations, reddevil, that’s great! You might let Brucesteen know that it’s old news. He talked about it last Friday. And let Fox and the other newsies know, too, since they published the story today. That Brucesteen was afraid that he might get hurt or even killed appears to be his sole motivation for faking his physical to avoid potentially being drafted. That makes him what? I’ll answer that. It made him a coward then and it makes him an old coward today. That there were others who dodged the draft has no bearing on this thread. The story is about the guy who got a medal from the POS who left the White House last January. One other thing. The Castilles drummer was 19-year old Marine LCPL Barton Haynes. He was KIA in Vietnam on 22 October 1967. That does make one man Brucesteen actually knew. So, I’ll give him that.
He gets his services mixed up as well. Walter A Cichon was a SSGT in the Army who was declared MIA in March 1968
SP4 at time of loss, actually. Cichon was apparently promoted posthumously to SSG prior to being formally declared “presumed dead”.
Springsteen did get the Cichon’s service wrong, but he apparently indeed knew Walter Cichon and his brother Ray (see the link I provide below). It’s been about 50 years since Cichon was drafted, so I’d be inclined to cut Springsteen some slack regarding the mistake concerning the branch of service in which Cichon served – particularly since the other man Springsteen knew who died in Vietnam WAS in the USMC.
Make it at least two, 2/17. Looks like Springsteen also knew then-SP4 Walter Cichon, US Army, lost in Kontum Province on 30 March 1968.
http://www.app.com/story/news/local/2014/08/18/walter-cichon-springsteen-connection/14268653/
DPAA curently lists SP4 Cichon as having status “Presumptive Finding of Death”. His body was not recovered after he was lost.
Springsteen has his faults, and I don’t agree with his politics. But lying about having known multiple people who died in Vietnam doesn’t seem to be one of Springsteen’s faults.
Okay. Thanks for that. That’s one of the three categories he listed. Will I give him the other two just because? No, but I will soften it to a maybe.
I think it does have bearing on this thread. How can we reconcile condemnation of Springstgeen (a mere entertainer) for dodging the draft while ignoring the fact that our current president not only dodged the draft but considers his military high school to be the same as a military career and his promiscuous sex life to be the equivalent of service in Vietnam?
http://people.com/politics/trump-boasted-of-avoiding-stds-while-dating-vaginas-are-landmines-it-was-my-personal-vietnam/
The thread isn’t about whether or not he purposefully avoided military service. It’s about his ‘coming out’ and proclaiming that he was a “stone-cold draft dodger.” Some might applaud that, and no doubt some do. Others, like most at TAH, don’t. Now, if the thread just, out of the blue, jumped on Brucesteen for draft dodging, then, yeah, I could easily see pulling other prominent names into the discussion. But this just ain’t that.
Or ‘coming out’ once again, if you prefer.
Yeah, I had the same problem with people on the Facebook page who think that somehow I’m just attacking the Leftist heroes for dodging the draft. If you search our archives, I’ve criticized Trump for that, too. I don’t see how mentioning Trump in every fucking thread does anyone any service. This is about Springsteen and any deviation from that discussion has the intellectual depth of a mud puddle.
So I guess us girls who volunteered, some of us more than once, are better men than Springsteen. Yeah, no surprise there. None at all, especially since he neglects to mention the women who were sent over there and didn’t make it back.
You’re right, PH. Also, a shoutout to my wife of soon-to-be 46 years, The Russian, who served as an Army Medic two years, 1970 to 1972. She was never in the Viet of the Nam, though, although I have no doubt she would have served if ordered to do so. That’s My Girl.
Re “Viet of the Nam” I think someone here invented a new ‘thing’. I saw it recently on another site. Who came up with that? Brilliant
Viet of the Nam is actually not all that new. The “of the” is implied in the name of the country with Viet meaning “People” and Nam meaning “South.” It was a western convention to combine the two words into Vietnam. During the war, the Vietnamese also made an interesting distinction between southerners and northerners by reversing the word order, and using the terms nam viet (south people) and bac viet (north people).
Still, I think Claw gets credit for introducing Viet of the Nam into the general TAH lexicon.
Negative,
I do believe ” Viet of the Nam” was bought into TAH Lingo when MCPO gave an after action report on last years Veteran’s Day Parade.
He found a couple of real winners in the crowd. One was posing as a Sgt Major saying he was with the CIA or some shit in the phoenix program in ” Viet of the Nam”,
Here’s the link to when the phrase was first uttered.
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=68915
Dunno, Dog. My CRS might be flaring up again, but the way I remember it, the Viet of the Nam thing came up in a thread started almost two years ago on a guy named Charles Jenkins. He apparently had a respectable tour in country with the 173rd Airborne, but blew it off by claiming to be a POW.
IIRC, Claw started using the term after that.
Sorry, it didn’t pick up the anchor reference:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=61001&cpage=1#comment-2802754
Jenkins’ comment was on Feb. 17, 2016. The post was on July 24, 2015.
After reading all these comments, I like this website better all the time.
Despise the POS. Never liked his music. Hey Brucie, if you ever read this I invite you to Kiss My Ass. Fuck You. You’re nothing but a coward and always will be.
I volunteered for the draft at 17 and honorable discharge at 19. CIB, etc.
Go play for you’re severely wounded 3 purple heart friend John Kerry.
I had 3 Brothers who were of age to serve in Vietnam. One went the other two were medically Disqualified. One had bad hearing from a bout with scarlet fever as an infant and the other had a heart murmer.
Okay, I LOVE early Springsteen stuff. I’m sorry but I can’t deny it. Once he became “popular” his stuff sucked mule balls.
He is/was an amazing performance and concert to go to.
Saying all that, he IS a piece of sh*t.
Fuck that guy. Used to listen to his “music” until “Born in the USA” came out. Made up my mind after listening to it, fuck him. I knew plenty of young men from my area that went, served, stayed in for a career or got out and slipped into the woodwork. Several were
injured in combat. Since they were my oldest brothers friends, I’d do what I could to help them anyway I could. Whats this worthless fuck done for returning vets? “I WAS A DRAFT DODGER”. Fuck that guy!
Lets sing that POS a hymn. “Him, him, fuck him.”
I still like his music . Guess I always will. Ever since I first got Nebraska on LP. I read Glory Days and it gave me more insight into the man and his music. If I judged every artist by their life and not their art. I think I’d be missing out on some good rock , country , and soul just sayin
I am not a fan of the draft. I believe a free nation should be able to find volunteers to fight it’s wars. If it can’t find them then there is likely something wrong with either the war or the nation. A draft for organizing I suppose is ok but a draft due to lack of volunteers is another thing. But it is what it was and he was called and gave the country the finger instead.
That makes BS a hypocritical choad juggler cashing in on the vets. I started disliking BS when BITUS came out. Nothing has changed since then. All those songs he wrote about the horrible economic conditions under “O” he refused to play when he was backing HRC. Ironic much?
IDK if he feels guilty now or not. Plenty of fine musicians served honorably some in war, some not. Elvis for example was a much better singer, Kris Kristofferson a better song writer, Jimi Hendrix a better everything. All these served before his number came up.
Some still sign up and serve in/ during wars. MC Hammer, MJK, Ice-T, Sturgill Simpson, Keni Thomas (ok Thomas is not very good) all served honorably. Others like Shaggy less so. About half the above served during war time and/or in combat.
BS was/is Cowardly, selfish, foolish probably a little of all of that. I’d buy his regrets story a little more if he were actually doing something meaningful for vets. Since he does not appear to be this is more self serving garbage.
Don’t much care for BS, his music or his politics, but give credit where it’s due…this guy has had an extraordinarily durable run in an industry where careers are here today & gone tomorrow faster than you can say Peter Frampton. BS is #15 in album sales in the U.S. among the top 250 recording artists all time, and is top 20 in the world in all time total sales. The dude found the secret sauce for success.