The 100th Bomber Group – World War II
This week’s movie is a video of the Bloody 100th Bomber Group from WWII, B-17 pilots and crews, flying their bombing missions starting in 1943, and continuing into March 1944, to destroy German factories and rail lines and shipyards, and at the end of the war, the bombing Berlin and Dresden.
The B-17, also known as the Flying Fortress because of its armor and amraments, was as tough as the A-10 is now. At first, they flew missions with fighter planes that turned back at the European shoreline, but later, they were accompanied by US fighter planes and British Spitfires.Tough planes, tough crews, flying in unheated, nonpressurized planes, in cramped quarters that can only be politely termed sardine cans because they were packed to the walls with gunnery, ammo, instruments and armor, leaving barely enough room for the gunners to maneuver and shoot.
The US Army Air Force alternated bombing missions with the RAF. The USAAF ran missions during the daytime while the Brits ran them at night. The loss numbers during bombing missions were staggering, up to 90% of planes and crews, because of the Luftwaffe’s attacks and flak fields. The missions ran 8 to 9 hours, minimum, in cabin temperatures of -40f to -60f.
These guys and the Brits bombed Berlin into rubble, but that didn’t end the war. They next went after Dresden, which was full of refugees fleeing the advancing Soviet troops on the eastern front.
There is a brief shot toward the end of a Luftwaffe pilot bailing out of his damaged plane at 24,000 feet. Some Luftwaffe pilots were so desperate to stop the bombers that they rammed them as a last resort.
It ended in March 1944, 73 years ago. Some of them got together for this video.
It is 45 minutes of video, worth every minute of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olsAMx0fPq0
Category: Politics
100th Bombardment Group (Heavy), 3rd Bombardment Division, 8th Air Force. Based at Thorpe Abbots, East Anglia. Group ID marking: Square D. In late ’43, the 100th was a hard-luck outfit, taking the worst losses in the 8th Air Force at the time, hence the “Bloody 100th” nickname (the official unit name was “Century Bombers”). Rumors persisted that the Luftwaffe had a personal vendetta against the 100th over one of the Group’s planes that dropped out of formation and lowered its landing gear (equivalent to a ship striking her colors, universal indication of surrender) either as subterfuge or due to mechanical malfunction, then shot down several German fighters that formed up to lead her down. The rumor was just that, as the bomber in question was last seen going down in flames from the formation, and no German fighter pilot ever recalled singling out B-17s with Square-D on the tail, but morale in the 100th was terrible, hardly any men in the unit were making it to 25 missions, and the rest of the the 8th Air Force considered it a death sentence to assign a crew to the 100th at the time. The unit’s luck started turning around in the spring of ’44, though. An up-and-coming pilot named Robert Rosenthal, flying a B-17F named Rosie’s Riveters, was climbing the ranks rapidly and inspiring the rest of the Group. Rosenthal was a from a fairly prominent Manhattan Jewish family and had been starting a law career when the war started. He was a talented pilot (said by many to be the best that ever took a B-17 off the ground), and a gifted leader who set a good example and took care of his guys. His crew’s third combat mission to Münster on October 10, 1943 saw every plane the 100th sent shot down except for 42-30758, Rosie’s Riveters, which was shot to hell and running on two engines, but still flying with her crew unharmed. Rosenthal’s crew was quickly made a Lead Crew, and the men of the 100th came to believe that the tall, handsome, seemingly-indestructible Jew could lead… Read more »
What a great story, that would make a great movie! Wish he could have dropped the big one on Hitler!
we had a B-17 here in Az, I couldn’t take a ride because my wife was in surgery getting a knee replacement, but then, I couldn’t have taken a ride anyway,,,,they wanted 400.00 for a ride! geez 🙁
Thank you, TOW. I’d read a bit on Rosenthal, but thanks for filling in some more info on him.
If you haven’t read Stephen Ambrose’s “The Wild Blue”, you really should. He explains in great detail the ordeals the bomber crews had to go through. It sounds like absolute hell. At least a grunt on the ground can usually find a hole to jump into if he wants to get away from the shooting but for the aircrews there was no hole and the bullets and flak would go through the thin aluminum skin of those planes like it was paper.
A bomber crewman in the 8th Air Force was more likely to become a casualty than an infantryman anywhere in the ETO.
holes didn’t do much good to lots of Easy company, since shells landed in the holes with them!
BTW has anyone else ever heard the story – possibly apocryphal or some history channel BS – that during WWII some analysts determined that if they simply stripped all the guns off of the B-17 and removed the 5 (I think?) gunners on the plane (and their attendant support equipment: Seats, oxygen hookups, etc) that the B-17 could fly faster, higher and would suffer no more casualties than they did anyway?
The story goes that this idea was pitched to the Army (which was losing hundreds of aircrewmen each month) as a way of redicing aircrew losses, but that the Army thought that sending airmen into battle like that with no way to fight back against predatory fighter planes would by psychologically paralyzing for the crews and nixed the idea.
Again, I’m assuming it was probably a BS story but I just thought I’d throw it out there to see if anyone else had heard it.
Pretty sure that story is BS. However, there may be a grain of truth buried in the BS.
LeMay did a variant of that when he switched from high-level daylight to low-level nighttime strategic bombing against Japan. As I recall, he had the guns removed so his B29s could carry larger payloads – the guns weren’t particularly effective at night, anyway.
They stripped everything off the B-24’s that took off from a carrier to bomb Japan at the beginning of the war! Could name a ship after
Col. Jimmy Doolittle too!
Pretty sure that was B-25’s. Similar looking aircraft, smaller and two engines.
Stripped B-17s and B-24s that were still airworthy but considered too worn-out for combat did get used for a lot of utility work. Some were also used as “Judas Goats,” painted in bright colors so that the bombers going out could form up on them in poor visibility. Once the formation assembled, the Judas Goat would head home.
Several generals, including MacArthur, used modified B-17s as personal transports. Churchill flew in a US-crewed B-24 for a while. The B-24 also had a cargo variant, the C-87 Liberator Express.
Never heard that before, but I kinda doubt it. B-29s flew 10,000 feet higher and 125mph faster (cruising speed, that is, a B-17F with the throttles wide open could hit 325 in level flight, bombload notwithstanding), and Jap fighters still tore them apart until P-51s started flying off of Iwo Jima to escort them in.
I do know that stripped B-17s made exceptional airtankers. That gigantic conventional wing flies great in the “low & slow” envelope, which is exactly what you need for firefighting in rough topography. If they hadn’t melted down all those forts (and thus all the spare parts) in the boneyard, we would still be flying them as tankers today.
That was supposed to be a reply to Martinjmpr above.
A bit OT but going back to Ambrose’s book – I learned a couple of things I hadn’t known about the WWII USAAF.
One was that the “pipeline” for training pilots was pretty vicious – at multiple points there were examinations and tests and if you failed on test, you were out. However, those that failed out were usually given the option of staying in the USAAF as enlisted aircrew. That meant that on a typical bomber, even though there were only two aviators on board (the pilot and co pilot), it was likely that much of the crew had started out as pilot candidates. For this reason there was a great deal of camaraderie between officer and enlisted since they had all likely started from the same place, which was different from much of the rest of the armed forces where officers and enlisted men often came from very different backgrounds and circumstances.
The second thing I learned was that after the USAAF realized that prisoners in German POW camps were treated better if they were higher ranking, the USAAF in Europe had a policy that any airman who flew over enemy territory would immediately be promoted into the NCO ranks. That’s why even though they weren’t in “leadership” positions, waist gunners and radio operators on B-17 and B-24 bombers were always corporals, sergeants or staff sergeants.
“A whole camp of sergeants, why that just asking for trouble”
If I ever run into any of you bums on a street corner, just let’s pretend we’ve never met before.
Did you ever think maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters?
All sergeants. Now you put 630 sergeants together and, oh mother, you’ve got yourself a situation.
Negative. You’ve got a conspiracy and a shitload of fun!
Shapiro: Hey Schultz, sprechen Sie Deutsches?
Sgt. Schulz: Ja?
Shapiro: Then droppen Sie dead!
Just a piece down the road from me, is the Home of the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Assoc.).
The have a fully restored B-17 called the “Aluminum Overcast” that they will fly passengers on.
EAA’s B-17 Aluminum Overcast
“EAA’s B-17G-VE, serial number 44-85740 – nicknamed Aluminum Overcast – was delivered to the U.S. Army Air Corps on May 18, 1945.”
Cost is about $499.00 for non-EAA members.
Approx. 1 hour for the adventure with around 25 minutes actual flight time.
The “Aluminum Overcast” is just one of 12 airworthy B-17s remaining today.
If anyone of “youse guys” are ever in the area, the EAA grounds is a great day stop.
Shameless promoting. 😉
https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/flight-experiences/aluminum-overcast-eaa-b-17-bomber-tour/~/link.aspx?_id=D94C7FD97BD047F59AA454348157D460&_z=z
Also check out the Collings foundation in Stow MA. The B-17 “909” was restored from fire fighter service and takes paasengers during the yearly tour.
http://www.collingsfoundation.org/
A while back, Jonn put my pics of my infant son aboard Nine-O-Nine on the WOT. By the way, her Triangle-A tail/wing markings are those of the 91st BG(H).
She’s a good old bird. CAF Arizona Wing’s Sentimental Journey is another good airworthy B-17. I don’t know how they do it, but they keep her looking showroom-new with markings of the 457th BG(H).
Additionally, the Air Force is currently doing a full restoration of Memphis Belle–the real one, 41-24485–at Wright-Patterson. She hasn’t flown since 1945, probably never will again, either, but they’re taking good care of her.
I have flown on the nine-o-nine four times, twice while ferrying to the next show. My dad was a gunner/toglier with the 91st BG, 49th Squadron at Foggia. I got to fly with him in his old position. The father son thing was strong.
I took lots of photos including photos of the B-24 Liberator along side and the FAA chase plane (mooney)
behind us. Awesome experience.
“91st BG”
Corerection..2nd BG, 49th Squadron. Tail marking was black letter “Y” in black circle.
I believe I’ve seen Aluminum Overcast! It was about 8 years ago, I was in my backyard in Englewood, CO, and I heard the unmistakeable sound of a multi-radial engine aircraft – it was a sound I recognized from every WWII bomber movie or documentary. I thought “what in the hell would make a sound like that?” and looked up to see a silver B-17 flying right over the house.
Turns out there was an airshow nearby and Aluminum Overcast was doing flights for people at the airshow. Since that time I’ve seen it probably 5 or 6 times, I guess it’s pretty popular at the Rocky Mountain air shows.
Good to hear she’s still flying.
Liberty Belle crashed and burned a couple years ago. But like the good B-17 that she was, she got everyone aboard back on the ground safely before she burned up.
Aluminum Overcast came to an air show near me 20 years ago or so. I paid to crawl through while she was on the ground- very tight and cramped inside.
Martin, I saw that same one, probably at the same time. I’m just down in Elbert ( used to be Castle Rock, till a couple years ago)
Curtis LeMay attributed their losses to poor training and lack of discipline. He made sure crews in his wing trained on their non-mission days, including instrument take offs in fog, a common occurrence in England (imagine that). On the first Schweinfurt mission, several groups were supposed to cross Germany timed to go deeper into Germany than ever before while Luftwaffe fighters were on the ground refueling and rearming. The Me109s main weakness was range and lack of loiter time.
If I recall correctly, the 100th planes were late taking off due to fog, and his group (arriving over the target on time) got clobbered by the enemy fighters. I read all that somewhere as a plane geek. But it’s been a while. I am in awe of anyone brave enough to that once, let alone 25 times.
I believe I read in a bio of Jimmy Steward that he enforced strict flight discipline in his pilots so that no one plane was in a position where another plane could not help defend it from the Germans.
I think there was a problem, when a pilot got out of position, of getting hit by the bombs dropped by the plane in front of and above them – and his strict discipline reduced that occurrence as well. But I could be remembering incorrectly.
Wish I could think of the title of the bio – it was a good read.
That was the purpose of the Combat Box formation. When held properly, it was *very* formidable, to the point that experienced Luftwaffe pilots told their new guys to close their eyes when they attacked. One of them wrote, “Tangling with Spitfires is a joy, and taking on four or five Russians who want a piece of you is the most fun you’ll ever have. But make the turn into thirty American Flying Fortresses, and all the sins of your life will flash before your eyes.”
German interceptors would try to break up B-17 and B-24 formations any way they could to make the individual bombers more vulnerable, and stragglers would form up with eachother, because the formation’s massed firepower was greater than the sum of its parts. The bomber formation was not invincible, though, as the loss figures of the 8th, 12th, and 15th Air Forces show. But the Germans didn’t hit a formation without paying for it.
COL Stewart drilled his B-24 crews in tight formation flying under adverse conditions, and it paid off. His formation never broke, and his planes stayed in the air. Jimmy Stewart saved a lot of lives that way.
There’s a good World at War episode, “Whirlwind”, about the bombing campaign if you can get it on Netflix. It chokes me up just thinking about some of the gun camera footage.
When I was a kid, my Dad had the original 1943 documentary/propaganda “Memphis Belle” on VHS. It’s pretty good, if you haven’t seen it. The “buy war bonds” tone of the narrator is especially effective for kids as he describes the conditions in an unpressurized aircraft at 25,000 feet, and the condition of many casualties when they get back, as it drives home what these guys were facing on every mission. A part that really got to me was footage of medics giving a gunner with major trauma a blood transfusion in the plane, as he’s in hypovolemic shock and they’re afraid to move him. The narrator speculates about who may have donated the blood he’s receiving, concluding with, “It might even be *your* blood. But whoever’s it is, thanks.”
Of course, they exaggerate how much damage was actually done to the Germans, but that’s to be expected for a wartime newsreel piece.
Seeing German fighters zipping through the 91st BG’s Combat Box so fast that the camera only picked up a blur, flak popping all around, and watching B-17s catch fire and spiral downward while a recording the crew’s intercom serves as audio, I always wondered how in the hell those guys could stay so calm in the middle of it. The most tense dialog you hear the whole time is copilot CAPT Jim Verinis telling one of the crew “don’t yell on the goddamn intercom.”
That should be required viewing in every junior high school.
One thing I never quite understood was how did they keep the gunners on the planes from shooting each other? I’m just thinking that if I was a gunner on an aircraft and I was following an enemy fighter and trying to shoot at him, I’d have so much ‘target fixation’ that I wouldn’t be paying much attention to the fact that there may be another friendly bomber behind the enemy fighter I’m shooting at.
I’m just thinking, with all those bullets flying around, how many B-17’s were taken out by other B-17s? Or did they have some technique to avoid this?
The narrator of the film does say that there were frequent friendly fire incidents because of the Luftwaffe fighter planes buzzing in and out of the bomber formations.
The Combat Box maximized each gunner’s field of fire, but it could still happen. Additionally, gunners were trained to fire in short bursts, as each gun had 500 rounds in the belt (the origin of the phrase “the whole nine yards,” by the way), as the AN/M2 has a significantly higher rate of fire than the regular Ma Deuce, so hosing bullets wasn’t a great idea.
The friendly fire that did happen was pretty much the cost of doing business, unfortunately. The same was true of aircraft collisions in combat and incidents where a bomb from one plane fell on another one below.
The B-25 Mitchell “Panchito” is a frequent sight at Pax River. Those Test Pilot School folks get some cool toys, and a pal of mine got a couple hops in it as a Naval Aircrew Observer. Now there’s a log book entry not many will have! Lucky SOB…
The Germans learned to mix their attacks up. If the Forts kept a tight formation, they would lob air-to-air rockets at the bombers. If the latter opened up formation to avoid the rockets, they became more vulnerable to individual attack.
I’m just a former squid but can recommend “twelve o’clock high” as a great movie…not so much about the B-17 in combat but rather the human dynamics during the tough early days of daylight bombing
When I was promoted to Chief, myself and other selectees in my AO were required to watch and critique ‘Twelve O’clock High’ with emphasis on leadership skills, types of personality, types and characteristics of leadership, motivations and other attributes of individuals. It’s a great movie and one I highly recommend.
The movie was part of a week-long leadership/management course. I’ve been to several dozen Navy courses, lasting from a day to weeks, and this particular course was not a boondoggle as were some. The movie is worth watching IMO. It was interesting to see myself and my ‘style’ among the individuals. There isn’t, of course, a style that must be adopted to the exclusion of all others, but rather it’s about what works well for the individual and with which they feel comfortable.
My grandfather was a belly gunner on B-17’s in the 100th during WW2. They got shot down, he spent some time in a POW camp. Escaped later during some sort of prisoner camp transfer.
http://www.flensted.eu.com/1944072.shtml