Never Say never
Never Say Never
Two things I used to teach my subordinates working in Intel; never say never and never say always. If you avoid making absolute declarations it makes it more difficult for you to be proven wrong. Nothing always or never happens on the battlefield or in life, because of change. Change is constant and ever present and really one of the few things that you can say honestly, is always happening.
Our knowledge of what occurs on the battlefield is based solely off of our own perception and what we know, what we hear, see, and read about. Our perception is our reality, our reality is our truth.
Spirituality came up a lot in the comments of my suicide post so I’ll take the time to acknowledge and share about my personal experiences and current status on the topic since I’m mainly writing to focus on the story of my recovery in hopes that it will inspire others. Maybe it will save a life and give someone the gift of time. Time being our most precious resource as it cannot be replaced and our lives are recorded by how we spend and invest our time.
After my parents divorce we moved in with my grandparents John and Ruth (they say you die twice, when you exhale your last breath and the last time someone says your name. I won’t let them die in my lifetime; I will say their names). They were truly exceptional people; devout catholics and active in all things church and religion. I idolized my grandfather, he was my paternal influence and I wish I could seek his guidance and advice daily. Two of my aunts are sisters in the catholic church and phenomenal people as they are 2 of 17 of my grandparents children. That’s right, 17 kids. One was adopted as my mother is the eldest of the last three girls. There was an age gap between her and her older brother so, not wanting her to grow up without female companionship, they adopted my aunt Deb (another great person). Shortly after they were blessed with my aunt Suzie (the namesake of my daughter’s middle name who passed when I was 5). We lived with my grandparents from the age of 4 until he suffered a simultaneous stroke and heart attack (he had arrhythmia and could not serve unfortunately) when I was 7.
I was home schooled by my grandmother for a year and a lot of my development and academic success is likely because of that year. Some of my fondest memories as a boy are from riding in the truck with my grandfather doing newspaper vending machine deliveries and listening to NPR and classical music.
So; devout Spanish, Irish and Finish Catholics tend to have large families and we have a huge one (no reality show though thank goodness). Catechism classes were taught in our house and I dominated the prayer memorization competition in my own Catechism class. I was raised to be an altar boy and was baptized catholic. Fast forward to high school and I start running track and cross country meeting a great friend named Jimmy. Dude was awesome; we had similar tastes in music, cars, and faith. He drove a BMW 318is that was lowered and had a stereo and wheels. Awesome car with a lot of great memories made. We went to church together and I found a place for my musical ear. I got into doing audio mixing and set up and tear down of the band equipment. I’d show up to practice on Wednesdays and church on Sundays (usually after a sleepless night at the street races or skating) and worship and pray. It got me through some of the toughest times of my teenage years and kept me focused on my future and out of trouble (I always seem to find trouble regardless). I went to Christian Camp at Hume Lake after my senior year and even considered applying for a position doing audio mixing and set up and tear down of band equipment there.
I joined the military 6 months after high school and went to church a few times and even a prayer group with my former supervisor and mentor Grayson (Veteran, Suicide).
I just can’t stand the tainted image of the lord in the eyes and words of man. I’m not really an atheist, just often confused and ashamed of the conduct of mankind and the way he uses god, religion, and faith as an excuse for deplorable actions towards our fellow man. I don’t care for miracle mongering and the preaching of fear of eternal hellfire and damnation.
I currently prefer a mixture of eastern and western philosophy and find stoicism quite appealing. My reading list is quite full at the moment but I have read the bible (King James NIV). I have a tattoo of a cross on my back and my dog tags list Christian as my denomination.
From Marcus Aurelius: A Guide for the Perplexed
Book by William O. Stephens
I’m not the biggest fan of memes but this one raises some pretty important questions about Christianity:
I’m not going to say I’ll NEVER be religious or more spiritual than I currently am or have been in the past. I’m just learning and listening to dissenting points of view and thinking critically about what I believe in. I’m evaluating the sources of the information and I value the virtue of truth.
I am not and will try at all costs to avoid belittling people of faith or their religious preference, as it’s simply too incendiary and I don’t know enough to be considered a credible source on the topic.
Whether this is directly attributable to Marcus or not is irrelevant to me, I like it:
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but…will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
The closest thing to that in my copy of Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations is this:
“Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear, if gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence? But they do exist, and they do care for humankind: and they have put it absolutely in man’s power to avoid falling into the true kinds of harm.”
—Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 2.11
Source: http://undeniably-atheist.blogspot.com/2011/10/fabricated-marcus-aurelius-quote.html
If god created man in the image of himself, are we all not then fallible gods capable of godliness but stopped by our own fears and manlike vices and behavior? Can we not all be god like?
I was taught by my grandfather that can’t mean’s won’t. Many of you have been taught this same tenet. I believe we can be who we want to be (and possibly destined to be) if we eliminate irrational fears and selfish ego driven behaviors.
More to follow. -Kilo
Category: Veteran Health Care
I keep a few books on my nightstand. One of them is an old, leather-bound copy of Marcus Aurelius. I truly believe he should be required reading in high school.
Another is the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. Again, something everyone should read.
I like what you’re writing. It rings true to me, as I spent a lot of time with my own grandpa, up until I was 6. Both my parents worked, and he and grandma took care of us kids during the day, and sometimes at night.
I was raised catholic, and was an altar boy. Great experience. but as I grew older and read, it became harder to take some things on faith. I am very religious, but a Pagan. I believe in many Gods, but our family God is Apollo.
My dad, 98, a WWII Navy vet (corpsman), is a devout Catholic,as was my mother till she passed on. He spoke like Marcus Aurelius, in that he said that if there is a Heaven, then that’s great and he hopes to see his wife again, and one of my sisters who died a few years back, etc. But he added that, if there isn’t an afterlife, then that’s no big deal because we’d close our eyes and never know anything again.
In a sense, I derive great comfort from that. I strive to be the best man, father and husband I can be. If that isn’t enough, then so be it. I tried, at least, and hopefully won’t be found wanting in the eyes of my Gods, or in those of my friends and family.
What were their names? They sound like beautiful people.
I am catholic. And like you, my grandparents had a profound spot in my life when it came to faith. Gramma was a bit over the top, but Grampa lived his work and family life putting others before himself always.
He often gave away his overcoats to people with none, and when he would come home with only his fedora and button down sweater, Ruth, my gram would say, “Oh Rocco, not again…” To whit, he replied, “Ruthie, newspapers keep me just as warm tucked in my shirt,,,and then she would finish…”Okay, Rock, give me the newspapers…”
This is how I live my faith. I want to believe all people have good, like my Grandfather did. I get burned a lot, and I call myself PollyAnna in my approach to many things, but above all, good over evil. Love over hate. And I try do without the guilt because I am being the best I can be. I cannot attend church without being a blubbering wuss as I feel connected to Ruth, Rocco, Joe and Marion.
I hope that my future grandchildren will be around and remember me the same way…
I love that you said their names. They’re alive today because of you. It’s beautiful and emotional and overwhelming and honorable and many other synonyms for true love.
If you have ever had the pleasure to see the Grand Canyon at sunrise, or a beautiful sunset over the great Rocky Mountains, or the first time your child grabs your finger with her tiny little hands, then how could you not believe in God. I don’t know who else could create such beauty and wonder!
My daughters birth is without a doubt proof that god exists. She is the true reason I am alive and motivated to succeed at all costs.
I’m a veteran, peace time service as it was for this joker/loser, but my time in, I allowed alcohol to become my drug of choice to ease life’s pains.
Long story short, thanks to A.A. and a power I do not understand I have 32+ years sober. Back in 83/84 I wrecked a car trying to wreck me over a woman…..cars gone but I’m still here.
I heard an A.A. speaker by the name of Bob Earll talk when I first sobered up in 84, he also had workshops on ACA/ACOA issues during the late 80’s and 90’s. Damn good speaker and I have many of his tapes. You can find them online.
I just listened to his tapes again but from talks he did in 1979,85,88,98,2001,2003 in that order and I wasn’t really looking for it but damn, I heard one hell of a spiritual journey of a man looking for meaning in this life. Anyone looking for answers should listen, his story let alone the whole journey in sobriety gave me further hope to keep trudging and just a day at a time.
His talks about ACA issues are moving too.
I don’t claim to understand this power/God/whatever you call it, but 32 years ago it removed my desire/craving for alcohol and too many things have happened in my own life since for me to doubt anymore.
Now to understand it is the real journey and this power uses people, I just have to open up my eyes and ears and most time close my mouth.
I’ve been to AA. Not a fan of the religion or fear preaching. I don’t have some untreatable disease. I had poor coping choices and excuses. I have self control now and have never been prouder of myself for overcoming something that nearly killed me and has killed many close to me. All of my friends who committed suicide had been drinking at the time. Everything is okay in moderation. I don’t need to drink the whole bottle or the whole bar and act like an asshole to people and pour my heart out in public places. I’ll be a fun person to be around by keeping sober and enjoying myself with the benefit of some antioxidants and fermented grapes. Much respect for your efforts towards sobriety. It will surely inspire others down that path.
I always tell folks I was raised catholic which is why I’m a non-believer today. I made the mistake of reading the bible they gave me and asking some questions that made them really uncomfortable. To this day I feel some regret at not just keeping my mouth shut and nodding quietly like so many others did. My mother was clearly disappointed when it was requested that I no longer attend the catechism classes because of my blasphemous questions….maybe it was just that church and those particular teachers…had it been a different situation I might have stayed with the church who knows….
That experience started me down a path to talk to a lot of different christian churches and to find a place where I fit in. I never found that place, I never found that church that made sense and as I read more and more I came to realize it was due to the sense I had that the whole concept of religion was bullshit for me. I apologize to those who find it comforting and real and very important to their existence. I do not and can not.
These days I just don’t bother with religion or churches or any new age feel good nonsense. When I listen to the likes of Deepak Chopra I’m wondering who is actually buying this bullshit?
So needless to say I’m sort of a godless heathen these days, but I have come to realize that for some reason a great many of my fellow citizens seem to have come out of horrible life experiences and addictions thanks to their faith. There is clearly something real there for them, and it’s not my place to disabuse them of their belief system.
So I’m learning to shut my pie hole about religion, and I am truly sorry if past comments here have offended folks.
If god works for you great, I’m happy you’re able to make your life better because of it.
For the record my dog tags said “NO PREF” many, many decades ago.
If you knew how the Bible was set up you would not be critical of how it is arranged. It does not contradict itself. Stick to chasing valor thieves.
I’ll make a deal with you; don’t tell me what to write, and I won’t tell you to go fuck farm animals. Sound good?
So I guess I won’t be seeing your mother anymore.
Just kidding before you get offended.
Chip:
‘Just kidding’? Yeah, sure. But why would you post something like that if you don’t want Kilo to react and get offended? And why would someone who believes himself to be so in tune with the Bible and its contents post such a thing in response to a combat veteran who is has been experiencing difficulties?
Considering the gravity of the subject of this thread, your comment about Kilo’s mother is grossly inappropriate and it has no place here, even if you did unwisely post it in ill-considered attempt at humor. It isn’t funny, and I strongly recommend that you knock it off.
I also strongly recommend that you refrain in the future from coming in here and smugly trying to lecture us on what the ‘truth’ is when it comes to the Bible. You clearly have your own belief system, and if it works for you, great. Just please keep it to yourself, and stop the self-righteous proselytizing.
You may think that you have all of the answers, but you actually don’t. Please remember that.
I honestly did not know much about him at all. I just read his other articles after my posts. I at first thought he was being critical of Christianity.
My apologizes as well.
I am not and will try at all costs to avoid belittling people of faith or their religious preference, as it’s simply too incendiary and I don’t know enough to be considered a credible source on the topic.
Reading is fun.
Also I’m not in speaking terms with others and the misspoken words of men I don’t know don’t offend me much.
Typing on my phone… should have read I’m not on speaking terms with my mother and the words of men I don’t know rarely offend me.
Apology accepted sir.
So what if he was?
Does he not have that right?
Who are you to determine whether or not he can be critical of his faith?
Did you miss the part in your oath about defending the constitution?
Defending the right to hear speech we find distasteful or abhorrent is the true test of our will in defense of real principle. You are certainly free to counter, but by being dismissive you hardly present any case worth a serious discussion.
I will defend your right to your belief in your god the same as I will kilo’s right to question it.
Making a counterpoint that appropriately expresses your reasoning behind why your faith can stand on its own is far different than insulting someone to stick to chasing valor thieves because they don’t understand the bible in your opinion.
I’ve read the bible many times, perhaps many more than you have and I still find no reason to believe in your god.
I apologize if you find that offensive but that’s just how it is for me, you are welcome to discuss any aspect you like of your belief with me and I’ll be happy to explain why I have no trust in your documentation.
Ditto to Chip. We need not fully understand the Bible to believe in it. I believe in it. I need not fully understand parts of it.
Faith in God is just that, faith. When I die, if nothing happens, then I have lost nothing and provided my soul with comfort in the hardest times of my life. I impart faith in God to my children, not because I expect them to believe, but I want them to make the choice someday to believe in something greater then themselves. God is not going to come down and part the red sea for me. He will however, give me peace and comfort. Is my faith mainstream, no. I don’t believe in the fire and brimstone. I think we’ll all be judged, not on a tally or how many sins vs. good deeds we’ve done, but on how you lived your life. If you do the good things in life for the right reasons, regardless of your faith, I believe god will welcome you with open arms. Jesus preached acceptance and peace, sometimes we forget that.
I could not have said that better! You gave me goosebumps.
Known as ‘the Devil’s Advocate’ to my Sunday school teachers (and I don’t mean as in the “Canticles for Leibowitz” sense!) I always liked Pascal’s Wager: he was a mathematician and huge gambler, and his rationale for belief was simple: Consider all of eternity the stakes of the bet. If you believe in God, and he exists, you win eternal reward,redemption, etc. If He doesn’t exist – well, you wasted some time and effort. Now, if you DON’T believe – if he doesn’t exist, you break even – nothing wasted but nothing gained. But if He does exist – you lose for the rest of eternity, with all the bad consequences that implies. So as a gambler: by believing you at worst break even and a best get eternal rewards, by not believing you at best break even and at worst duffer eternally – it makes more sense to believe than not.
Now me, I keep thinking that if God is indeed omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent (as Heinlein put it, just like it says on the label) why could he not have kicked everything off with the Big Bang zillions of years back, in such a way as for all of us to end up right now as we are? I have no problem with evolution and belief crossing paths like that. What His final intentions are? Guess I’ll have to just wait and see, knowing He gave all of us the choice to be as good or as bad as we choose to be, and that what I see as random He may have neatly slotted into His plan. Besides, given all eternity as the stakes…
Pascal’s wager is more appropriate in the pretense of belief versus non-belief. Going to church and pretending so your fellow man thinks you believe is one thing, in the dark of night when you are alone belief is another thing entirely and I suspect any god worth his salt will know the pretenders from the believers.
No one can force themselves to believe that which they find unbelievable or so lacking in evidentiary support they can’t honestly claim a belief. I suspect you don’t believe in the Hindu gods….what if the Hindus are correct and god is a benevolent many armed elephant? Your belief in jesus categorizes you as a heathen with the elephant god…so to take Pascal’s wager to its logical, mathematical conclusion you should convince yourself that all gods are real and believe in them all in order to cover the bet. Otherwise you’re betting all your money on the concept of a single god against the reality that according to many modern societies there are many gods.
Pascal’s wager was always a single horse bet on the judeo christian religion, regardless of how he tried to sell it to the masses. It was never a true bet in the true gambler’s sense of covering your losses. Pascal’s wager was a simple across the board bet, it assumes the christian god is the one true god. To fully execute Pascal’s wager you are placing more of a superfecta style bet…but of course in believing in all the gods you risk angering those that claim you should have no other gods before them. When you start distilling it down poor Pascal’s wager starts to come apart.
No offense intended David, my apologies if you were offended.
Very pleased with comments and discussions here. We all have innate good and evil within. It’s our prerogative to just which side we let win.
*choose…damn phone.
I was baptized at nine years old, and was a Christian for over 40 years. The last ten of those years, I was Catholic, and was also a lay religious, a Benedictine Oblate. The first cracks in my Christian beliefs caused me to abandon the Catholic Church; last year I went through a de-conversion, the spiritual anguish of which I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. It was a painful, lonely, dark time. The path I found myself on was the ancient religion of my ancestors, the religion of the Vikings, Asatru. I would be lying if I said that I’m not still a bit bewildered by this turn of events, but I can say this now: I have found where I belong. That, for me, is what is important.
Pinto Nag, you’re exactly the kind of person I hope to reach and have conversations with so that I may learn. The ability to change and shove aside ego to seek truth. Our individual truths are who we indeed are. I hope that makes sense. A lot of my writing will be about the hard shit. The stuff no one wants to talk about but for whatever reason I’m comfortable and okay with.
I may not be spiritual at the moment, but I’ll never say never in vain. I will try to remain open minded and continue to be a student of life and time. We’re only limited to change by the constraints of time and I hope someday to slow or even prevent aging some day. Fear, ego, and ignorance seem to be the only things standing in my way.
Threw in some extra words. Going to address this issue in a separate post. Thanks for your patience.
Religion is humankind’s attempt to deal with the existential. In general, the less devotees adhere to any written word concerning it the more tolerable it becomes.
Faith is all too often the justification for believing what we know can not be true. When people only get their information from a narrow source, the pulpit for example, they fall victim to a particular bias.
How people can become so fervently passionate about something they know so little about is beyond me. That which can be believed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
There are no Gods of any kind. Prayer in its best light is useful meditation but little else. As Jefferson said, “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
It is when my neighbor begins to push their beliefs on others that brings injury. I differ from Jefferson in that I am anti-Theist. I hold that believing what is provably false is wrong.
We need no supernatural being to love, for compassion, or to know right from wrong. All too often a belief in God is used to justify what can only be described as evil actions.
If I may offer a slightly different take on what you said, please? We believe in a being or beings greater than ourselves because there is so much out there that is greater than us. We seek them to help understand the vastness that is creation. Where we go wrong, I think, is in avoiding and/or denying creation and yet trying to find a Creator. That’s like walking past the food and thinking you understand the chef!
Through out human history we have created supernatural explanations for what we could not explain.
Not sure if we are on a similar page for sure, we very well might be. The use of the word “creation” is suggestive of some intelligent designer. The universe simply has no need for one to exist. Because we do not completely understand the universe we live in “we”, as in the majority of people, attempt to use supernatural explanations of all sorts to explain what is unknown.
There may very well be intelligent life in some form far greater than we are. If that is the case I would neither call them Gods or worship them. Furthermore, they would have no need or interest in me doing so.
Seeking how the universe as we know it was created and seeking a creator are vastly different. We do not understand one so we create the other.
I firmly believe that our struggle to comprehend the fact that “we” as individuals cease to “be” at some point drives us to belief in religions. It seems to be the fundamental motivation for a life everlasting.
The Chef in creation is neither intelligent or conscious.