Zinni and Mattis on the war against ISIS
The Washington Times reports that Generals James “Mad Dog” Mattis and Anthony Zinni were asked by Time Magazine for their opinions on the President’s war against the Islamic State. They were characteristically blunt;
Mr. Mattis, who led U.S. Central Command from 2010 to 2013, told the publication that Mr. Obama’s efforts are “unguided by a sustained policy or sound strategy [and] replete with half-measures.”
Mr. Zinni, who held the position from 1997 to 2000, was even more blunt.
“It’s a bad strategy, it’s the wrong strategy, and maybe I would tell the president that he would be better served to find somebody who believes in it, whoever that idiot may be,” the former four-star general told the magazine.
The whole Time article is here. The article, also characteristically for Time Magazine, makes excuses for the president by blaming the Syrian Civil War, the Iraqis and anything else they can find to distract us from the fact that this administration, while admitting that our involvement in Iraq and Syria are inevitable, are avoiding to take a lead or make any real commitment to winning the war.
All this, rightly or wrongly, has tied U.S. hands. “There is no political will in the White House to even listen to serious recommendations from military commands,” says Derek Harvey, a retired Army military-intelligence colonel who spent much of his career in Iraq. “The original strategy explained by the President was barely adequate and even that was not resourced or executed well.”
Category: Terror War
Took them both long enough to speak up publicly and say what’s been obvious for 6+ years to anyone paying attention.
Oh well, at least they did.
Well Said Hondo,,,,
And true so true it’s going to hurt someone we know on the left
Aka Lars
???????
Obviously you are not well read, otherwise you would know how much General Zinni did speak up for many years.
Mattis still maintaining a moderate amount of tact. Zinni, who is in his 70s now apparently has ran out of fucks to give.
Well, running out of fucks to give is common in those of us who cross that final frontier. What do we have to lose? Nothing.
Ah, generals and their generous retirement packages.
They must protect their retirement at all cost, damn the country, damn the troops.
Not in this case.
Your statement makes it abundantly clear that you do not know anything about General Zinni or General Mattis.
Those two General Officers are counted among the finest leaders that the Marine Corps has ever produced.
When referring to General Zinni and General Mattis, your uninformed assertion that ‘they must protect their retirement at all cost, damn the country, damn the troops’ is about as wrong as it could possibly be.
Would it be fair to say that the general rule stated is accurate, given the two exceptions you cite, and perhaps a mere handful of others?
I note a singular lack of “this is where I resign in protest” events. (Huge thing to ask, agreed)
I note that very, very few retired flag-officers speak out, either.
Article 88 may have something to do with that.
The point of my post was not to defend the behavior and conduct of all General and Flag Officers, and I wouldn’t attempt to make any kind of generalized statement or ‘rule’ about how the Flag and General Officer ranks conduct themselves, either while on active duty or in retirement.
The point of my post was to point out that Yef’s uninformed indictment of these two Marine General Officers that ‘they must protect their retirement at all cost, damn the country, damn the troops’ was grossly inaccurate and way out of line. I served with both of these General Officers, and they are not of that character.
We can all point to numerous examples of where Flag and General Officers should have demonstrated greater moral courage and stood up for what is ‘right’, regardless of the consequences.
And we can all point to numerous examples of Flag and General Officers whose sole motivation is blatant self-promotion and careerism.
General Zinni and General Mattis, however, are not to be found among those examples.
General Zinni and General Mattis have stood in silence while the Democrats have dismantled our military and snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know because i was there. When the sigact count goes from 10 a day to one a week, you know you got them by the balls. When the most senior guy in just HVT deck is young dude without experience, you know you have done a good job destroying the enemy command structure and combat power, leaving junior in charge of their war effort.
These Generals, ALL OF THEM, stood in silence while all the hard won victories, paid for at a high price in blood and treasure, were thrown away.
What piss me off about ISIS, is not that we haven’t defeated them yet, but that they exist to begin with. There was no reason for that.
Thank you Democrat gruberment and the silent Generals. A pox on both their houses.
General Zinni retired in 2000, and has been a vocal critic of both Republican and Democrat handling of the war.
General Mattis is well known for his blunt assessments of the progress of both Iraq and Afghanistan. During his tenure as CentCom CiC, he was essentially blacklisted by his civilian bosses due to his tendency to question the strategy being employed as well as his blunt and bleak reports to his White House superiors.
Both of these men have a large cult following in the Marine Corps for a reason, they were the polar opposite of many of their contemporaries. Warfighting was their sole focus.
Article 88 (Contempt against officials) doesn’t prohibit serving or retired officials from voicing their opinion, it simply requires them to do so without contemptuous language or speech- in other words, an officer can criticize the administration’s policy as long as he does not call the president an idiot.
Two really interesting aspects of this article are that it only applies to commissioned officers, and that it extends to not only the US Congress but also the governor or legislature of the state you happen to be in. So, a division commander at Ft Hood can call the Oklahoma governor an idiot, but he can’t do the same with the Governor of Texas
That’s going to leave a mark.
And Hillary wants to continue the half-asses measures on steroids.
Unfortunately, it actually won’t. I don’t know what a winning strategy over there looks like, but whatever it is, it surely involves more troops and more money, and the majority of the country doesn’t seem to want that. Maybe, maybe if we had a reasonable opposition to Mrs. Clinton who spoke well about the need for decisive action we’d get better results, but that isn’t Mr. Trump.
There’s also the issue that ISIS is the best well-known front with a whole lot of actual, identifiable fighters and regions, but ultimately this is a longer battle against an ideology, and from that point of view there’s always going to be new enemies… and mission creep along with it. I’d be really interested to hear someone (well, a politician) make a pitch for a plan to defeat ISIS, but not get bogged down in the endless ‘War on Terror’. That’s going to take decades.
Mattis 2016!
Hey, a guy can dream!
“I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all.”
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/5148871f69beddc23c00000a-960/genmattisltr-1.jpg
‘March 2003
1st Marine Division
Commanding General’s Message to All Hands
For decades, Saddam Hussein has tortured, imprisoned, raped and murdered the Iraqi people; invaded neighboring countries without provocation; and threatened the world with weapons of mass destruction. The time has come to end his reign of terror. On your young shoulders rest the hopes of mankind.
When I give you the word, together we will cross the Line of Departure, close with those forces that choose to fight, and destroy them. Our fight is not with the Iraqi people, nor is it with members of the Iraqi army who choose to surrender. While we will move swiftly and aggressively against those who resist, we will treat all others with decency, demonstrating chivalry and soldierly compassion for people who have endured a lifetime under Saddam’s oppression.
Chemical attack, treachery, and use of the innocent as human shields can be expected, as can other unethical tactics. Take it all in stride. Be the hunter, not the hunted: never allow your unit to be caught with its guard down. Use good judgement and act in best interests of our Nation.
You are part of the world’s most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon. Share your courage with each other as we enter the uncertain terrain north of the Line of Departure. Keep faith in your comrades on your left and right and Marine Air overhead. Fight with a happy heart and strong spirit.
For the mission’s sake, our country’s sake, and the sake of the men who carried the Division’s colors in the past battles-who fought for life and never lost their nerve-carry out your mission and keep your honor clean. Demonstrate to the world there is “No Better Friend, No Worse Enemy” than a U.S. Marine.
J.N. Mattis
Major General, U.S. Marines
Commanding’
Like.
Thank you Mick.
LIKE ????????????
Does anyone have Vlad’s phone number?
+7 495 697-0349
If you are calling on a cell phone you must have international calling activated.
Glad to help
He is 7 hours ahead of us and is an early riser. Call around midnight your time. When they ask who is calling just tell them you are a family friend of Zoya Anatolyevna Kosmodemyanskaya.
At least you can say you know someone who sleeps with her great grand daughter.
“Early riser”? I’m betting that he’s the Russian version of IDC SARC… when he’s not rasslin’ bears.
Not pointing out the obvious but rumor has it that Vlad will “hit anything” too.
Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya … a true heroine whose last words, addressed to the Nazis that were about to execute her, still sound chilling …
“You can’t hang all 160 million of us!”
“There is no political will in the White House to even listen to serious recommendations from military commands”.
C’mon now. Why should the White House listen to anyone in the military? After all, everyone in the White House went to Harvard, so they clearly know more about everything than anyone else, and that includes military operations.
So let’s get this straight once and for all. Everyone knows that an Ivy League-educated liberal/Marxist elitist will always know more about military strategy than some mere General Officer with 30+ years of military service.
Amusingly enough, Mr. Trump is an Ivy-educated elitist who has literally said he knows more than the generals about ISIS.
This election is just so painful on both sides.
Prior to attending Penn, Trump attended Fordham University in the Bronx for 2 years. He thus never received the “special freshman frontal” (where the ability to discern the difference between sh!t and Shinola is disabled) required of incoming Ivy League freshmen.
Given that there are so many generals that think the F-35 is what we need to win, Trump migt have a point that he knows more about defeating ISIS.
Just a thought.
Campaigning for the Hilderbeast, i see.
I hope you do realize that i would vote for absolutely ANYONE against Hitlary.
The Trumpminator is a gazillion times better than having Hitlary and Bill the rapist back in the White house.
I’m appalled by both candidates. I’m pissed that my choice for President of the United States of American comes down to a manipulative, self-serving liar or a bloviating self-serving idiot. And it’s genuinely difficult to tell which’ll be worse for the country, in my opinion.
Your opinion is utterly wrong. Nothing can be worst than Hitlary. With Trump we have someone we can impeach if we need to, with Hitlary we have an historic first shemale Prezidenth no Republitard will ever dare to impeach.
Like with teh Prezidenth ObaMa.
GOPe fears the Dems. They impeached Nixon, but wouldn’t dare even look at Zerobama.
I think I could maybe be ok voting for Trump if he would name either one of these gentlemen Sec Def now (assuming they would take the job) and the other Sec State (with the same previso) and agree to follow their advice.
A girl can dream.
Oh, don’t vote for Trump.
Vote for Hitlary. She is probably the most corrupt politician in the last half century, and she has abandoned Americans to die at the hands of our enemies, but at least she cares, and that’s what matters.
Trump might have a chance to save our country, but he is so uncouth and unpresidential that there is no way you can lower to vote for him.
Besides, what would friends think if they ever find out you voted for Trump?
No. We cannot have that.
I’m guessing that Mattis bit his tongue more than once when talking to the JEF about CENTCOM issues. Bodaprez, being the smartest boy in the room, ignored him more times than not… and Mattis retired from the Marine Corps.
Mattis is a hell of a leader – a modern day Patton the battlefield, that understands issues that can impact the battlefield. If Trump is a smart man, he’d reach out to Mattis and Zinni to help him.
JEF?
I swear, it wasn’t me.
Jug Eared Fucker… thrown all over the place at Ace of Spades (the other “smart military blog”) to describe the occupant in the WH
Thanks! Fitting.
The war of attrition didn’t work in Vietnam. It sure as hell didn’t work for the Soviets in Afghanistan.
I don’t think anyone is interested in seeing more tax money spent on pinching and poking.
If Vlad can go play whack-a-jihadi with airstrikes, tell me why can’t just bomb the living crap out of the Middle East and have done with it?
Oh, that’s right – all those antiquities and ancient monuments will be destroyed. I forgot. My bad. But we have pictures of them, don’t we?
Do we still have any of those big nukes?
I guess I’m in a really bad mood today. I’ll go shout and shake my fist now.
Now you have don it. Don’t say things like “war of attrition”, it triggers that HOBO guy.
Gigglesnort.
PH2 … FIRST, my Friday sammich. Then shouting and fist shaking, etc. Get those priorities squared away, lady.
Yeah, Vietnam. Measured response. Incremental response. War of attrition.
NO sammiches today, Chief. You want a sammich, hit the roach coach. I made bean soup and cornbread. It’s that, or you go hungry.
1. The WH is using ISIS to fight Syria.
2. The WH is using the conflict to impart pressures and outcomes with & against Russia.
3. Having ISIS & having them centralized/contained in a specific area makes it easier to keep tabs on them and also keep all of the extremists focused on that conflict and not The US.
4. It draws extremists from around the globe. This again removed hostile extremists from abroad and they do their will somewhere other that friendly countries. This works in favor of the US and our allies.
5. We should create a safe zone for the fleeing civilians and provide relief for them there locally instead of pushing them abroad. This prevents economic drain at home, which is substantially more than keeping them in a safe zone in their home areas. This also decreases the possibilities that terrorists will find a way here.
6. Having a Caliphate, will likely appease a lot of people and help deminish attacks abroad.This is not guaranteed.
7. People who do not need to be there need to stay away. A lot of those captured by ISIS were there unnecessarily, even if was doing something good.
8. If we disbanded ISIS’ foothold in the area, the bad guys would scatter and then it will be much more difficult to deal with them. I try would also mean experienced fighters would be sliding back into friendly areas and vastly increasing the likely hood of successful attacks abroad. It also would spread their twisted ideals to a greater, more diverse audience.
This does not mean that these statements are active strategies being employed and that this is the reason that the current administration is not fully committed to wiping ISIS off the face of the planet. These are just items that may be in use and it would be wise to consider and let the experts decide what is best. The administration and military of course will not publicize this because it make many assume that we are supporting ISIS as terrorists attacking our own.
1) the President is looking at ISIS and Syria, and saying “what the ??? Who cause this, and what the ???? Do I do now?”
2) Giving Vlad free reighn in the mideast, while simultaneously looking impotent, is “pressure”, only in a negative sence of a vacuum.
3+) an am sure others will enjoy Fisking the rest.
And probably also enjoy mocking my usual spelling errors and typos.
Just to be clear, this is NOT defending the current administration. It is hoping that there is an underlying reason, because otherwise, if it is this bad because of incompetence, which is highly likely, we can’t even f$)K a chicken straight anymore.
Well, it IS incompetence as well as a disdainful attitude toward the military, which is the only defensive force this country has right now. Unlike the Swiss, we do not have a citizen militia.
Having a caliphate will only stoke the fires further. And you have to ask why, when there is literally empty space available in Spain, including towns that have become ghost towns – why were those so-called refugees NOT finding their way to Spain?
The answer is that they weren’t and are NOT looking for refuge. They were looking for already-inhabited cities and towns, for crowded areas, where they could cause far more trouble.
A quick search on YouTube will show anyone how bad it is. The question is, why are all of the European countries letting them come in? They are going to get replaced by people who have no reapect, nor intention to.assemilate into their new culture. I heard that they were mostly military agreed men without families too, though I do not know for sure.
Wow. This is teh brillianz
Too bad the allies didn’t use your recommendations with Nazi Germany…
If what you say is true, then it follows that once you have them concentrated it’s time to NUKE!!! them. Just sayn.
Always thought it would be best to:
a) announce a massive land attack on Mecca in 6 months
b) start an authentic looking build-up
c) wait for all the Wahhabiists, fanatics, ISIS etc to gather round in Mecca’s defense
d) neutron bomb the place repeatedly
e) give a few billion to rebuild the damage
f) sincerely apologize for civilian casualties
Not Mecca. There is a place ISIS expects the fight to occur, some prophecy or other.
Use that, and the plan stated.
we can then make a few subtle hints about another effort, elsewhere, as a pointed reminder that more can be done.
And our opponents have along history of diplomacy via hostage holding.
They refer to it after Constantinople falls, and say it is the fight against Gog and Magog (but those refer to Jews and polytheists like Christians who worship the Trinity). Like Christianity, they refer to it as Armageddon but other than saying it will be after the ruin of Madina I don’t think they specify where – just sort of “all over”.
Doesn’t that have something to do with the blood of a red heifer and rebuilding the Temple of Solomon? My legend stuff is hazy on that.
It is Dabiq, where the Muslims will fight the final battle against the Jews and Polytheists (If you are Christian you qualify as a polytheist).
The war needs to be fought for the mind of the Islamic world. Islam has to be portrayed for the fraudulent belief it is, which requires an absolute rejection of the moral ambiguity of western culture. There is good and evil and islam is evil. Period. End of Story. When you attack the idea, it will be easier to kill the true believers and free the rest of the world from yet another horrific totalitarian and murderous ideology.
The answer is right here in front of us, on almost every rural acre of US soil.
FERAL HOGS. Time to Let Loose the HOGS OF WAR!
Good for a chuckle! But, I completely agree! Airdropping thousands of pregnant sows who are within days of delivery; Amhogious landings of thousands at all points touching the sea; hell, pigs can swim. Just push’m overboard.
Then the libbies don’t have to sit around wringing their hands because of collateral damage.
Naw, phuckit. Just start a massive bombing campaign that lasts for months. Worked quite well in the 40s in Germany.
It would be good for our economy: jobs here & jobs over there as UXO cleanup.
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I don’t know what this thread is about, but I’ll drink another Bud light and post some other shit just crossed my mind. Or not. I don’t know.
I bet you a 6pack of PBR I can do 70 push ups right fukin now.