Muslim grievance theater [Jonn]

| January 4, 2009

We’ve watched, over the last several days as Muslims in the US have protested the Israeli response to blatant attacks by Hamas against Israeli civilians. Last night, protesters in London and Paris turned violent. In London, they scuffled with police, in Paris they torched private property.

I wrote the other night about a Muslim man who attacked a Jewish immigrant, injured a police officer and walked away from the incident scot-free, apparently. Can the violence we’ve seen in Europe be far away in this country as well? Well, here’s my question to all of the Muslims who think they have a legitimate complaint. Leaving aside the specifics of your allegations against Israel, and considering only your passion and commitment, why are you still here?

If you feel so impassioned about the plight of Palestinians, why aren’t you sneaking into the Gaza Strip to fight the Israelis? Sure the Israelis and Egyptians have a blockade in place but that didn’t stop al Qaeda from infiltrating into Iraq from Syria and Iran, did it? The West Bank shares a border with Jordan – there’s a way to get into the fight.

Why isn’t Iran sponsoring arms shipments into Gaza like they did to Hezbollah in Lebanon? Why haven’t they airdropped weapons and troops into Gaza? They have the inclinations and the means. They haven’t even offered to supply Palestinians with medical supplies.

But most importantly, why aren’t these youths in Europe and the US streaming back into Gaza to help Hamas? The simple answer is; they’re cowards. Just like Hamas is cowardly and prefers to fire missiles at civilians randomly than to face an army of legitimate combatants in a head-to-head battle.

And that’s why they riot; they’re cowards. They know that no matter what they do in the West, at the end of the day, they’ll still be alive and they go home to watch TV and decompress from their antics. few will end up in jail over night and released the next day, no matter who and how many they’ve injured, no matter how much private property they’ve destroyed. There’s no downside for them.

If they go to Gaza, they might get shot by Israelis, or Hell, they might be shot by Hamas (like 75 members of Fatah were shot by Hamas just before the Israeli incursion). Besides, in the West, they’ve got ANSWER thugs telling them how brave they are to march a few hundred yards in the cold. No downside.

In other words, the Muslims in the West are too lazy, too cowardly, too selfish to actually act on what they claim they believe in. It’s much easier to engage in theater than to engage youself in the process. Muslims in the West are giant pussies.

Category: Antiwar crowd, Foreign Policy, Terror War

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defendUSA

Jonn-
I agree, wholeheartedly! That is why we have men here leaving 6 figure jobs for Duty, Honor, Country. Isn’t it amazing to watch? I cannot stand the frauds who pull this crap.

Here’s a thought…with all that we are helping Iraq to achieve, how many of those Iraqi children do you think will stand up for their Country or ours, should they immigrate? When you are taught right from wrong, that is what happens.

The cowards learn nothing because there is never a consequence in their shallow world. It is always someone else’s fault and they can go back to the comfort zone. What’s that old adage? if you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall-for anything. It would suck to be them.

robin

Jonn – my hubby and I were just talking about this last night after I showed him your pics/videos of the protests. If they feel so connected and concerned about the Palestinians, why not go over there and support them physically. Why live here in the land of milk and honey wearing their black/white scarves proclaiming Israel and the US the devils? Heck most of the orgs are getting $$ from US taxpayers in the forms of grants, tax breaks etc while the individual members don’t even have “real jobs”. You are right – they are just cowards like their brethern in Hamas and Hezbollah. I’d love to see Brian Becker and his ilk marching along the streets in Gaza.

Great post and insights as always my friend!

Jonn wrote: Of course we had the same thoughts. We’re the same person, remember?

Scrapiron

The Mooslime have proven that anyone, without exception, who practices Islam is a danger to freedom everywhere in the world. You can trust them right up until they rape and then slit the throat of your children. Calling Islam a religion is the same as calling Hitler’s Nazi’s a group of good old boys.

Frankly Opinionated

Radical Moslems who claim that this is the way of Mohammed,(May he wrap his wounds in pig guts.), are every bit as coward as the KKK was. Covering their faces with a ski mask or a diaper, like the KKK did with bedsheets. Marrying and raping children, even pre-teen children. Beating their wives for reasons as innocuous as wanting to select her own clothing; some kind of manhood here. These ragheads are less manly than the San Fran Mayor, less than Harvey Milk,,,,,Just pure wimp, tunnel hiding cowards. Go Israel Defense Force.
nuf sed

SSG David Medzyk

It is too obvious you are simply making all this up. Islam is the religion of peace, and wants nothing more than to be friendly neighbors with pig-fucking dog licking infidels-that-must-die who occupy the ancient and rightfully Palestinian lands adjacent to the sea…..

Deus Ex

Look, if you read the End of Faith you will know how I stand with regards to Islam. To put it simply, it is a disgusting religion if you read literally from the Quran and Hadith (sp?). But this post of yours is absolutely childish. First off, have you thought that these words of yours, if read by some angry western Muslim, might actually translate into him going over there to do something like, say, explode a VBIED? The blood of some American or Israeli soldier, even if it was only one Muslim that went over to fight because of your words, would be upon your hands. I say these words because I have said the exact same things you said above to Muslims. And I look back and realize how terrible of a mistake I made. I’d rather have these guys protest for weeks than decide to drive a car full of explosives into a crowded market. Sure, they might be morons. Sure, they might not have compassion for people outside their religious faiths. Let them be. So long as they abstain from violence, we use our words to convince them. And my second point is you couldn’t be more wrong about western Muslims being pussies. I found your blog tonight, and I am not sure if you are in the military. I have many friends and know many people in the military. I’m not yet finished with college and thus cannot yet gain my officer’s commission, but I will be an officer in a relatively short period of time. Given what I’ve heard from either speaking directly to those at the pointy end of the spear, or from what I’ve read, American and European Muslims have been found in Afghanistan and Iraq. How do we know this? Well, we could start with I was given the chance to speak with a Captain (now Major) who served with the Green Berets in Afghanistan, and found the American and European passports off the corpses of insurgents killed. Or you could read the numerous reports that document the exodus of quite… Read more »

Winter Soldier

“Do you think Arabs are dumb? They gave us our numbers. Try doing long division with roman numerals.”

~vonnegut

i think your statement is a generalization and a poor sterotype, which is just a mask for fear or ignorance.

Jonn wrote: Oh, a comment on ignorance from a guy who called for fire while shooting a magnetic azimuth with the compass resting on a machinegun barrel.

Winter Soldier

If you were even present at my testimony or if you had the smarts to cross check any of the times that I have spoken you would know exactly whats fact and fiction about your statement.

And I stand by my statement. As for any of the rest of the garbage you blog. Its really taking a side isn’t it? After all you never deployed with any IVAW member. How do you know whats fact and fiction?

BTW check out who invented the compass! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass

James Gilligan USMC 99-05 (yea you didn’t even know when i served, or who with you need that too before you spew any more piss in the wind?)9th ESB A Co, 2nd CEB H&S Co, 3/6 Wpns Co CAAT Plt (just in case) now-til forever always an

ANTIWAR COMBAT VETERAN (2 times)

Jonn wrote: I was at Winter Soldier, slick. If you had the smarts to cross check this blog, it’s under the category “Winter Soldier Liveblogging”. Are you here to defend MacBeth?

Winter Soldier

I know you were at the WS event in March. I remember you blogging that night that you got up and missed the majority of my testimony. Funny though you can still call me a liar huh? But your not calling me a liar you instead gave credit to exactly what i said! I said members from my unit had found coins in the Iraqi Atomic Energy Facility and your response was that “my marines found and took “some” coins and that it sounded to you like a movie” Well you didn’t denounce what i said you just ‘can’t believe it’. haha There is alot about this war people cant believe but that’s ok you can check the facts right? So call up 2nd CEB H&S Co, and look around for rosters of any Marines from 1st or 2nd CEB who were attached with me. And had to secure and hold same facility for over a week. Funny I recall a few guys from 1st CEB received their CAR from that mission. What else did you say oh.. you didn’t deny my story about my 1stSgt from 2nd CEB leaving my Humvee in the middle of a crowded market and withdrawing his pistol and threatening a kid by “pointing the pistol into the child’s head and neck area and lifting him off the ground” Your response was that “well he didnt kill him” right or am i wrong what was the direct quote? Because its funny if that was an American child it would be alot different. As for MacBeth, I don’t know much more then what you have already said. This is because largely he is not a topic openly discussed. In fact our membership levels have increased so much since Mar 08, mainly from active duty. So for a majority of the men and women who up IVAW he is ‘before their time’. Only bloggers like you give him the attention he wants so badly. This aside your absolutely right his actions, his deception throws doubt into any right persons mind. But for this example look at the… Read more »

Winter Soldier

I know you were at the WS event in March. I remember you blogging that night that you got up and missed the majority of my testimony. Funny though you can still call me a liar huh? But your not calling me a liar you instead gave credit to exactly what i said! I said members from my unit had found coins in the Iraqi Atomic Energy Facility and your response was that “my marines found and took “some” coins and that it sounded to you like a movie” Well you didn’t denounce what i said you just ‘can’t believe it’. haha There is alot about this war people cant believe but that’s ok you can check the facts right? So call up 2nd CEB H&S Co, and look around for rosters of any Marines from 1st or 2nd CEB who were attached with me. And had to secure and hold same facility for over a week. Funny I recall a few guys from 1st CEB received their CAR from that mission. What else did you say oh.. you didn’t deny my story about my 1stSgt from 2nd CEB leaving my Humvee in the middle of a crowded market and withdrawing his pistol and threatening a kid by “pointing the pistol into the child’s head and neck area and lifting him off the ground” Your response was that “well he didnt kill him” right or am i wrong what was the direct quote? Because its funny if that was an American child it would be alot different. As for MacBeth, I don’t know much more then what you have already said. This is because largely he is not a topic openly discussed. In fact our membership levels have increased so much since Mar 08, mainly from active duty. So for a majority of the men and women who up IVAW he is ‘before their time’. Only bloggers like you give him the attention he wants so badly. This aside your absolutely right his actions, his deception throws doubt into any right persons mind. But for this example look at the… Read more »

Winter Soldier

didnt units in kuwait get the cib?

Winter Soldier

i was just asking which war you went too

Winter Soldier

lol sigh mr millard is his own thing im not here to carry that spear. lol but my ptshorts pic was taken while me and 2 other marines were on a lpop high up on a ridge. its probably to much for you to take cause you never had that experience. troops and contractors and politicians, some are good but we all know the bad ones too (at least the ones who got caught). waterboarding… now this is important because you misunderstood what i said. and probably didn’t hear the full statement, as you were so eagerly taking notes. i was deployed to USNBGTMO may-nov 03 and i was deployed with the fenceline crew, not the prison which at the time was run by the army. while on fence duty we routinely rotated from leeward and windward sides of GITMO. while serving the one week on and off i did get to meet with interrogators from the amry mp company. and they did discuss how the detainees were being treated as one might talk football at a backyard grillout. and in these conversations i YES heard from the MP’s who were in there everyday just exactly what they would do to the detainees. of the many tactics light and noise deprivation, personal beatings, dogs set on prisons who were restrained, sexual humiliation,and yes waterboarding. in my time on windward side (the main side of GITMO)we would pass by the detention center on our way to post. and there was even posts which over looked the grounds near the camp. many times i would think about those conversations with those twisted MP’s and look out at the cloth covered fence and see their shadows as they paced about. the detention center ironically in 2003 also houses the Army stress team. Of which i visited on board the camp in oct-nov 03 you can check my unit again. you do the dirty work mate, ive laid it all out for you. Jonn wrote: The video of your testimony is here. So I misunderstood that your comment about waterboarding was secondhand rumors. I’m… Read more »

Winter Soldier

i hate typos grrr wish you had a edit button. but then it wouldnt be real

Jonn wrote: That’s why I use Firefox. It has a built-in spell check.

Winter Soldier

do you understand what i even wrote above all that?just making sure this is a discussion?

Jonn wrote: Oh, I understand – I typed that so you’d know I’m still here. This isn’t coming off the top of my head. I don’t just spout off – I research. It takes time.

Raoul

Winter Soldier,

IVAW and VVAW who testified in 1970 and 2008 were never under oath for a reason. That’s because Winter Soldier is a lie, especially the main premise is that policies made you commit war crimes.

And when Kenny Campbell VVAW Winter Soldier puke was finally put under oath, he had to admit his lie. His crime was not the result of policies, his crime was committed out of personal revenge.

Winter Soldier

understandable, without research we are just radom ip’s tlking… but think about it in all the units i was with? oki and 2 on lejeune… not one service member has come forward saying i lied. and its been about a year that its been out there for cross examination. believe me i didnt testify for you. or your bloggers. it was for anyone to hear. it was just the truth.

look at the formatting of everyone elses testimony. mine is so different. my was just short an simple where it was, what unit, what year and month and what i saw or did. not a single Marine or Navy devildoc, i ever served with has come foward saying its a lie. Not one.

all this aside even knowing all the bullshit around the first WS do you deny the Mai Lai massacre ever happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

Jonn wrote: For the record, even looking over my report at your testimony, I never questioned it’s veracity, I questioned it’s relevance. Like I wrote at the time, none of you testified to any real “atrocities”, per se. In order to consider anything to which you testified an “atrocity”, you have to accept that the whole war against terror is illegal and unnecessary. Which it’s not, no matter how much hyperbole you drag into the conversation, it’s just not.

And everything that you all considered atrocities were individual acts of individual soldiers. The broad brush smear of the entire force was unconscionable. Just like saying all recruiter lie is wrong. Just like saying all Marines are dumb is wrong. But nothing you talked about was illegal, nor did it rise to the level of My Lai.

And whether My Lai happened or not, that doesn’t justify the lies and posturing of Winter Soldier. Using My Lai to defend IVAW is like how Dan Rather defended himself with the false letter on 60 Minutes. False but accurate.

And don’t forget, your first post here was George Bush’s DD214 in defense of Jesse MacBeth.

Winter Soldier

Raoul,

i whole heartily agree without a doubt noone should EVER lie about these things. even if it was fueled with politics. its bullshit you have to think someday i will be asked whether or not this is true. why do it. its dumb. it takes away from any realness that might be there.

Winter Soldier

the tactics used by US interrogators HAVE including waterboarding y/n is that right?

the way i said it? how else would have been best? out of everything i testified about this this is the one item in which i did not physically have to see to report about. having had direct conversations with MP’s, who were at that moment working in the detention facility. i felt it was enough.

scuttlebutt. or rumors… that was NOT the case here. about sgt chirox allowing himself to be waterboarded as demonstration. i would prefer that then to be treated the way lyndi england treated those under her charge.

http://www.rwf.gr/uploads/photos/england-graner2.jpg

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/Lyndie_England_dog_humiliation.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/46106354_676bad09a8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/agi_t_prop/46106354/&usg=__WxJHBGs0eKTLhw6LOF2xhTIGwpk=&h=278&w=370&sz=52&hl=en&start=14&sig2=8H18-CuNt8cDeksEDTYqKw&um=1&tbnid=P5L9oCZ9Lf7IsM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=122&ei=ohBkScT6Ad3dtgfvhfGUCQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlyndi%2Bengland%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

Winter Soldier

you not getting it i didnt post his dd214 in defense i posted it to show you another liar crook thief whatever you want to call him.

Jonn wote: I’ll let someone else deal with that statement. When the discussion slips into the ridiculous, I bow out. Besides I need some rest. G’night.

Winter Soldier

up to you youve been doing this for month too my name i can do this tomoorrow as well

george bush LIED ABOUT HIS SERVICE TOO. doubtful macbeth has a book but hey going this way he can be president!

Winter Soldier

oh and btw i rate my CAR for both theaters

Raoul

WS,

But you IVAW guys are the puppets of the VVAW pukes. Pukes like Campbell who lied.

Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you who you are.

Winter Soldier

thats just it, i am my own. and i am not influenced in my opinion any more then the avg american with a tv. oh wait i don’t own one that means i get all my info from… personal eyewitness account of my own.

you want oaths? ha bullshit i don’t believe in god. so what have you got your basic word. you can’t even string 3 sentences together for a comeback.

MGersh

For what it might be worth, Arabs invented neither the compass nor our numerals. The Chinese were the first ones to use magnets to determine direction and navigate, then the Arabs learned about what the Chinese mariners were doing and used the technology in prayer, to determine the direction of Mecca.

The so-called Arabic numerals we use today were invented in India. The Arabs themselves call them “Hindu numerals”. They were introduced into European use by an Italian, who, so far as anyone knows, got them from a Hindu, not a moslem.

Just so you know.

Winter Soldier

i provided website ref wheres your… and in my website ref it did infact say 2 sources for the compass.. most popular is chinese… second is that it was see on a ship by a western in the area. touché!

TSO

Someone remind me why we are playing cattoy with Gilligan again?

http://www.phillyimc.org/en/james-gilligan-rumsfeld-ivaw

From that interview:

The reason he doesn’t define himself as “having been in combat” is because he was never in a “shooting-back” situation. He never had a clear target to fire at.

TSO

And, how is your fatwa going against capitalization to begin sentences? Have you founded Iraq Veterans Against Grammar yet?

Winter Soldier

wanna talk about Muslim grievances the 9 Airtran passengers that got kicked off this holiday season.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2008585678_airtran03.html

i’d look closely through the articles u will see they were reimbursed for like 2-3 tickets a piece probably to not sue their butts off!

Winter Soldier

any more deletion jonn
just delete it all i care not too comment if your deleting my reply or comment. you know my email address you can email me when your ready to blog, not obscure, mislead, or out right not care..

hows capt sanders?

Winter Soldier

cananyone attack facts? do any of your buddies here know capt sanders? you sure dont talk about that too much?

Gravelrash

Deus Ex ~ “Sure, they might not have compassion for people outside their religious faiths. Let them be. So long as they abstain from violence, we use our words to convince them.”

Since 9/11, for a starting point, what have the millions of words uttered about islam being “hijacked”, how “most are peaceful”, how “moderate muslims” are the majority, how terrorism doesn’t represent the faith….what have those words achieved? CAIR approaching the White House, Saudi influence overwhelming the financial sector, “religious vilification” laws being passed by the U.N.. more than 12,000 terror attacks since 9/11……
Keep talking…. only one side is listening though.

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[…] We’ve watched, over the last several days as Muslims in the US have protested the Israeli response to blatant attacks by Hamas against Israeli civilians. Last night, protesters in London and Paris turned violent. In London, they scuffled with police, in Paris they torched private property. for more click here […]