Daniel Pai; Grandmaster Korean War vet
Someone sent us this fellow, Daniel Pai in hopes that we could prove he lied about his service. He died in 1993, so I guessed this would be difficult right from the start. He’s still the main figure in some sort of karate cult and that’s completely outside my lane. But mostly this bio is the one most often quoted about him;
In 1951, Daniel Pai joined the U. S. Army and was stationed on the Mainland. He opened his first school in the back of his Sunset Boulevard home just before leaving to fight in the Korean War. He reenlisted in 1953, and spoke of being in Vietnam in 1954. He retired from active duty in December 1955 and in May 1962 he was given an honorable discharge after completing his military obligation. During his service to his country, Daniel Pai was awarded 4 Bronze Stars, Korean Service Medal, U. N. Service Medal, and the National Defense Medal.
Most of that is true, according to his records. He was stationed at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii until 1952, then he worked in a hospital in Japan, then he went to Korea in March 1952 – August 1953 and he worked at a hospital in the war. The shooting war ended in July 1953. From there he went back to Japan. The only thing that I can find that is wrong is the statement that he was awarded four Bronze Stars. He was awarded four Bronze Service Stars on his Korean Service Medal, which means that he served in Korea during 4 campaigns. He didn’t earn four Bronze Star Medals. Here’s a Korean Service Medal with two service stars;
However, I’m not going to blame him for that. It could be that someone misinterpreted his records – it happens a lot;
The bio says that he mentioned that he was in Vietnam in 1954. He wasn’t – he was working in a hospital in Fort Belvoir, Virginia, still in the Army. But, again, I don’t have proof that he claimed that he was in Vietnam, only a second-hand story that he had mentioned it once. Hardly evidence.
I’m sorry to disappoint the folks who were hoping that I could bust the guy, but, as near as I can tell, he didn’t lie about anything.
Category: Who knows
Please, let’s not be vultures.
Glad to see you continually post stories of real Veterans who did not embellish their records. Explaining how others can misunderstand a Veterans record is important, and it is important to say “slow down” when it comes to wanting to out someone as a poser, when there really is no proof they were.
The problem is when you say “i served in the Korean War”, most civilians automatically assume you were with CPT Millet in Soam-ni charging up Hill 180 with fixed bayonets.
He looks like an interesting fellow to have known.
This post goes along with what I tell many people about the mission here. That we have no problem apologizing to those who we had reason to suspect but later found to be legit, and that we will defend anyone whose claims are defensible. Thanks Jonn, for keeping things real.
The linked bio is attributed to no one and is not sourced in any way to Pai himself. I think someone decided to play dress-up with facts. That someone is the bullshitter, not Pai.
Robert Nickerson. Well, then, if the bio is attributable to someone, why isn’t that someone’s name over it, under it, or beside it, then? Unlike an autobiography, a biography is written by someone about another person. And the person who wrote the Pai bio is not identified on the bio page. The more you insist that you are trying to get the truth out, the more it sounds to me like you have a personal beef or grudge and that you are using this deceased Veteran’s military service as a battering ram.
2/17 Air Cav brings up a valid point “Bob”. You should answer him. You sound like someone with an axe to grind. BS is generally not tolerated on TAH, be it stolen valor BS or “axe to grind” BS.
He went on to train Daniel, for the All-Valley Karate Tournament. Much ass was kicked that day! Wax on, Wax off Bitches!!
The “Bronze/Silver” star misinterpretation strikes yet again.
I knew a MSgt Lincoln that retired from EAFB, La in 81 with a Red Belt (6th lvl black belt in 6 forms of martial arts.) He was a bad ass, but not by his specialty. Great guy to know. First and only guy I ever knew that could do a one finger push up. Want to say he was 45 years old at the time, didn’t look it. Years later I met another Red Belt, apparently they keep in touch as there aren’t too many of them. Great Guys though. Really liked them.
a red belt is typically a (senior) novice rank in a korean system.
equivalent to the more commonly used brown belt in a japanese syestem.
not a black belt expert or teacher yet,
there are MANY,MANY red belts. systems vary widely, but some system probably uses red to denote 6th dan. there is no standard and your guy’s rank is atypical.
a rock climber or concert pianist is more likely to be able to do those pushups than any 6th level martial artist. its a rare ability but proves nothing, nada, zero.
“They all claim to have heard them from Pai.” Your requests, then, must be put to those who are spreading false information regarding Pai’s service. If their best and only evidence is that they are attributing their bullshit to a deceased Veteran who cannot speak for himself, well, that says reams about them and none of it is good. If they think so little of Pai’s service and post-service accomplishments that they must lie about him and inflate his record, then that, too, says much about the bullshitters. None of it reflects on Pai. All of it provides insight into the poor character of those who must dress-up Pai’s record to, one imagines, make themselves more marketable.
The US did support the French withdrawal from Indochina in 1954 (Operation Passage to Freedom), so its entirely possible that he actually was in Vietnam in 1954. As no service medal was issued, there would likely not be an entry on the DD 214 for someone who supported that operation.
My standard for calling out dead guys is pretty high.
It’s rather nice to have a case where no evidence seems to exist of the veteran claiming false service. What others might claim really isn’t relevant, especially since this gentleman is dead.
To those who want us to get all incensed about something which has not been proven – don’t hold your breath. We have plenty about which to concern ourselves without taking on something like this.
Mr. Pai’s actual service has been documented. If others are exaggerating that service, there is little any of us can do about it.
What exactly are you asking us to do, Robert Nicholson? We read the docs, read the article, and are bearing your insults. Not much else we can do for you.
Well, Nickerson, I don’t recall anyone asking you for your opinion either.
You’re welcome to make comments here – so long as Jonn allows you to do that. It’s his site, and he’s final authority for who’s allowed to comment here and who’s not.
But FWIW: coming across as an arrogant bastard with a chip on his shoulder (or maybe a spoiled brat who’s whining because he didn’t get his way), then insulting site regulars, isn’t exactly recommended behavior. Continue that, and you may find yourself moderated – or banned.
Just a word to the wise.
Roberto. Who the hell are you and where do you get off calling USAF Veteran and longtime member of the TAH community a troll? You are pissing people off and you need to shut up, back up, and regroup.
Here’s a hint, Robert Nickerson: Either tell us exactly what you want us to do or sit down and shut up. Is that clear enough? Me and my posse are bored with your incessant whining.
I see you are an e.e. cummings fan…
Thank you to John and Bob for sharing this. , and to Mary for locating additional offending pages. Normal people rule.
There’s no way to know that Daniel K. Pai started all of this, but now the true story is out.
It’s clear that some of his associates are still spreading false information, and RN has accurately pointed out where to find it. They need to be confronted and now everyone has the truth.
As far as the anonymous troll issue, it’s always the same two or three people using multiple IDs so that they have someone to agree with them. Yahoo groups, Facebook Craigslist. Everywhere.
On this blog these rocket surgeons never out a single phoney or provide useful evidence. Just hang around whining. I wouldn’t take any stock in their remarks. Don’t feed the trolls.
Individual whistleblowers like R.N., and also team members like John and Mary have outed many SV creeps.
Keep doing it!
Wait, you’re real name is Bernath, right? Or is it Dullas? Either way, you’re an amateur troll. Go away “Bob”. And BTW, GFY.
It hasn’t been the best of weeks here at Casa OWB, so my patience with wading through crap is limited. Need a bit of clarification from the rest of y’all.
Has a second commenter now accused me of being a troll? This “Bob” character did earlier. That one was clear, but it appears that now “Joe Petricone” has as well. Or maybe not.
If so, thanks, guys, for making my day. That’s about as funny as anything I’ve seen this week. PH, put up the cat because my laughter may cause a bad response even at this distance.
I don’t know, OWB. He certainly is running with the troll thingy but it doesn’t seem to be connected to anything but the word troll itself. He’s having a Joycean stream of consciousness episode I think. Either that or he’s doing exactly what he and Bob accuse others of doing: mindlessly attributing to someone that which isn’t theirs. This is one weird thread.
Thanks, AC. That was pretty much my take away as well. Sorting through some else’s seemingly fractured mental gymnastics is not much fun.
It’s okay, OWB.
I worked for a large animal vet when I was in college. I know an asshole swine when I see one.
And I see that Nickerson’s posts have disappeared. Seeing as how Nickerson pretty much tried to take over this thread to advance his own crusade, and insulted those who questioned him, I’m not surprised.
And the exchange is even more hilarious when one side has been removed!
Sorry all, but I’m still chuckling about being called a troll.
Yeah, the newbie barges in and accuses the regulars of being trolls? Right. GTFO, Dink Winkerson!
It seems more than a little disingenuous to me to take someone to task over claims of service that have an unverifiable origin, especially when the person in question has been dead for 23 freakin’ years.
As far as I’m concerned this is a non-issue and the people who are repeating the stories should be held accountable, NOT the deceased. That is childish and ridiculous.
People frequently claim a lot of stuff that is pure baloney. I know someone who wears Navy Aircrew wings but couldn’t qualify for even ONE Navy school, never mind Aircrew, which is a beat-you-to-pieces school and requires a specific time in service, which the individual I’m speaking of does not have.
There are bullshitters everywhere you go these days. Just watch where you step. And get off the back of a dead man who is not around to defend himself, mmmkay??
The other option which strikes very close to home for me is when others ascribe rank which an individual never claimed. We had that happen in my family and no amount of correcting folks who called him “Colonel” when he was a retired CWO had a bit of impact. He did not like it at all, but could do nothing about it. His civilian boss thought it was cute and perpetuated the myth. Maybe she thought it elevated her status? Who knows.