SEAL Trainee Death Ruled Homicide
Jonn’s written before about the recent death of Seaman James Derek Lovelace during SEAL training, as well as about some initial reports regarding the incident. For those who’ve forgotten: Lovelace died during SEAL training this past May, during a swimming drill, after being “one-on-one” with an instructor.
San Diego medical examiners have determined that Lovelace died by drowning – and have ruled the man’s death a homicide. There is surveillance video of the incident; that footage apparently was considered when making the determination.
I’m not competent to comment on the behavior shown in the surveillance video, nor have I viewed it. However, the newest linked article contains a verbal description of what was observed to happen during the incident. I’ll let someone who is competent in this area make the call on whether classifying the death as a homicide is apropos or not.
But I’ll say this much: either way, IMO if the description is accurate someone (or multiple someones) can kiss careers goodbye – perhaps justifiably. And some of them may also be looking at criminal charges; NCIS has yet to determine whether criminal charges are warranted in connection with this death.
Truly sad.
Category: Navy
A lot of people just lost a career.
Same old crap, give a little power to some people and it goes right to their head and they will Lord it over whoever crosses their path!!
Uh…homocide means MURDER! I believe more than careers hang in the balance…
Um, no. Homicide means one human’s life was ended by the action of another human. Depending on circumstances, it may or may not constitute a crime.
Do the phrases “justifiable homicide” or “death by misadventure” ring a bell?
Manslaughter could fall under that category. I’m not up on my UCMJ enough to know if any of those are covered.
Hondo is right. Homicide and Murder are two different animals. Look it up.
“The medical examiners said a heart problem was a contributing factor to his death. Records also showed doctors previously had treated Lovelace for asthma.” Fox News
The medical examiners viewed the tape and this was a key factor in their conclusion. Those tapes may likewise save careers. If what happened to Lovelace in the pool was what happened to most other SEAL candidates, then the medical examiners, being medical doctors, were likely aghast at what they saw. The Navy immediately suspended the pool exercises after the tragedy but the, after a review, resumed them. What I am curious about is how Lovelace passed medicals with a heart problem and a history of asthma. Could be that, in the end, it will be a doctor’s ass.
It might help prevent a conviction if someone gets prosecuted. But in today’s “safe space/don’t hurt their feelings” climate, any fatalities in training are flat unacceptable.
I predict there will be at least one career sacrificed to the twin Deities Perpetual Outrage and Must Blame Someone. And I’d bet on more than one.
Uh, no, homicide is the taking of a human life. Murder is a subcategory of homicide. One can commit a homicide and commit no crime. The states with capital punishment authorize homicide. A soldier who slays his enemy in combat commits homicide. A citizen who kills a home invader commits homicide. Murder is a crime. Homicide can be but often isn’t.
?????
Were you perhaps replying to another comment above?
Yes.
OK – that makes perfect sense.
I think I replied to the wrong comment! But now I’m here so I’ll continue. Because of TV, Hollywood, and reporters who don’t know any better, most folks think that homicide is a crime. It isn’t. People are charged with Murder in degrees and types as well as the lesser homicides, such as manslaughter. The murder charges require intent while manslaughter a gross indifference or a recklessness to the harm that may be done to another which results in death. In this case, there is no murder. Manslaughter could be charged but will fail IF the instructor(s) were following the training regimen and did not make an exception for Lovelace. That’s why I say it may well be the medicals that are fixed upon, how this sailor came to be stamped good-to-go, with his reported medical issues. Just don’t hit the panic button is all I urge.
If there were violations of training protocols (I.e. Pushing his head underwater), the instructors will be made the bill payers.
Well, there are a great many what-ifs involved in this tragedy. Without the facts, including the prescribed and standard practices in that particular element of training, we can’t know. If, for instance, SEAL candidates were routinely treated in prior classes as Lovelace was in his, then that will have a profound impact on whether charges of any sort are preferred. On the other hand, if he was treated uniquely and the unique treatment contributed to his death, then another outcome is likely. I remain rather dumbfounded that he was approved for this arduous, rigorous, and dangerous training if the med history is accurate. It’s sad all the way around.
If he was medically cleared for dive training with a full medical history, then he was medically cleared.
If the training guidance said no touching and candidates were routinely touched I don’t know how that plays out.
It’s a tragedy,
I was a seal class running in Coronado last year in week 4. First they were physically huge, much bigger than guys I know from my era, and there were 300 of them.
It made me wonder about standards and creeping excellence.
Ratio of input to output.
I don’t have enough info here. However, benign murmurs/EKG abnormalities won’t preclude you from BUDS, but asthma is a disqualifier for any diving related duties per the Manual of the Medical Department.
I wonder if he had a waiver for the asthma? When I was a medical recruiter,15+ years ago, getting a waiver for asthma took an act of God (Recruiting Command), and they were really tight assed about it.
As others have stated, there are a lot of careers that will be ended because of the death of SN Lovelace.
It’s not waiverable. Asymptomatic with previous childhood asthma is ok, without a waiver at the discretion of the medical department. Any adult asthma, reactive airway or positive methacholine challenge test is disqualifying, non-waiverable.
Addendum: IME any history regarding asthma, diving duty is going to require passing a methacholine challenge test and if you send a guy there without one, they’ll send him back until he gets one.
Truly sad. If I was one of the instructors, I would ask my defense attorney to prepare my defense based on intent, and lack thereof.
I hope my comment above is not mistaken for irreverence in regards to a young man’s death.
Not at all GDC. See my wordy cmt above.
What they described sound to me like anoxia secondary to laryngospasm….water hits the larynx the airway closes in response lack of O2 in an already vigorous physical state shuts down the CNS followed by cardiac arrest….however, still dunno how any pathologist would be able to stand on a pillar of truth and say in the low O2 and probably panicked state this unfortunate man didn’t throw a fatal arrhythmia.In this situation there’s no way to determine it one way or another. Had he infarcted or prolapsed a valve etc yes, but a quick lapse into a fatal heart rhythm is more of a diagnosis of exclusion based on events. Arrhythmogenic left ventricular cardiomyopathy is the most common cause of otherwise healthy young men suffering sudden death.
Ok, I will say it.
The Deputy Medical Examiner’s name is Abubakr Marzouk.
Dr. Marzouk graduated from the Ain Shams Univ, Fac of Med, Abbasia, Cairo, Egypt in 1976.
I what universe is he qualified to determine what is excessive training to become a Navy SEAL?
I what universe is he qualified to determine what is excessive training period?
Young men die training to defend this nation against its worst enemies. Tragic as that is…it is necessary.
I am sorry for the loss of this young man. He volunteered to become part of the elite of the elite. He knew full well the dangers involved.
Personally, I want an opinion from someone named Brown or Smith or Jones. Abu can kiss my ass excessively.
Need I say more.
“Young men die training…”
Here’s another one.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/06/coast-guard-recruit-who-collapsed-after-training-run-dies.html
It happens. We had a young cadre member where I work just collapse and die in the parking lot a few years ago. Had a 23 year old go home after I spend the day teaching him and his classmates and suffer a stroke late last year. He recovered well, luckily.
OK…auto correct is fukking with me,,,I know that’s not what I typed.
It’s not just young men. Ft. Gordon, 2004, a friend and fellow SFC, 42 years old, completes his final APFT at what was then ANCOC. Scores around 290, has a heart attack after the run and dies on the way to the ER. No one to blame but fate.
Vaya con Dios, Rick
A buddy of mine survived one hell of a fight in Mosul on 19 November 2005 and earned the Silver Star for actions he did in that fight. A couple of months later he collapsed walking out of the chow hall and died from a heart attack.
RIP Mark
It’s not just a recent thing, either. Back during the mid-1980s, an Inf Bn Cdr with a another unit where I was stationed collapsed and died immediately after a unit run (Brigade run, as I recall – but it’s been 30 years or so now). Yep – fatal heart attack.
When the Deity decides you’re time is up, your time is up.
The name is irrelevant.
I can only image it will be reviewed by many others in his field with either the same or higher levels of expertise.
Hopefully in the end the true cause will become clear.
Sounds like toxic leadership. Many returned from Iraq and Afghanistan and treat new recruits like they are scum who will never achieve anything since they can’t be an Iraq and Afghanistan vet like themselves. It’s really a problem through out the entire military.
New recruits needed to be treated like dignity, not like trash. They need leadership, not demagogues. They need training, not hazing. It’s creating retention problems.
Sounds like we know only 1 thing. A young man with a promising life is dead. We don’t know enough to go casting aspersions on anyone or blame anything. We train new recruits hard because we WANT them to be vets like us, not casualties because they weren’t trained.
100%, SFC D.
There’s no dignity in letting someone — who’s volunteered for BUD/s — continue to surf, debris, and undertow if he’s put-off by a bit of splashing and dunking in a pool.
lily:
This has nothing to do with new recruits. This didn’t happen in recruit training. No recruits were involved in this incident.
This event happened in BUDS/SEAL training.
Try to keep up, dear.
as I recall, the dark black ocean is an unforgiving bitch that will not only haze you mercilessly, but given the chance for no particular reason take your life. The ocean affords nothing to grab, no time out and quitting is not an option. During a lightless night operation involving, subs, helos, ships, boats, hovercraft etc….things can go bad. Train hard in preparation for meeting the cruel bitch and all manner of her minions.
And you know this HOW? First hand knowledge of the event? Are you a primary source of the event? I’m thinking maybe, just maybe, we know half of what happened, probably less. There was a similar event a few months back in which a troop died and some asked how he could have passed medical screening. The answer is even world class athletes die, often from a cardiac/other event that was not detected b/c it never presented. Astronauts in the program for a decade wash out because medical issues suddenly present. Is that what happened here? I don’t have a clue. Let it play out and, hopefully, hopefully, answers will be forthcoming. I believe we presently know too little to make a fair assessment. I certainly can’t attribute his unfortunate death to ‘toxic’ leadership at this time.
Failed to clarify my above was in response to lily’s post. Blessings to all
Sad.
Hazing is a bitch. So is tough training.
No winners here.
Sad.
Mrs. Jarhead works in a 400+ bed hospital and is a believer in God Almighty. She shares a certain ideology with other employees. If a person comes into the hospital, regardless as to condition, and the Almighty intends for that person to die; there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING the nurses, doctors, etc. can do to save that person. On the other hand, the general premise continues as such: If a person is admitted to the hospital REGARDLESS AS TO CONDITION, and the Almighty intends for that person to live….
there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING the staff can do to end that person’s life (within the normal boundaries of treatment for even the worst of conditions).
Simple moral…If every SEAL candidate is treated exactly the same as all others, regardless as to one’s existing health, there are ALWAYS going to be events which were never anticipated. Ask the person who works for an insurance company in the role of an actuary.
As for Dave Hardin’s Dr Miguppaduppahloopahzoopa (or whatever his name is) don’t even get me started. As in, those from other countries go home three months out of each year, thus avoiding paying income taxes on the U. S. earned income.
Sorry for this trainee’s loss of life. Regrettable, but that is hardly the only loss of life found in any branch of training every year. Tough training can be dangerous, but that is precisely how tough warriors are molded and prepared.
This is a recent article from the Chicago Tribune. I don’t know where the reporter got the information about the CO and whistleblowers, but there have been prior incidents that resulted in the deaths of candidates.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-navy-seal-training-deaths-20160512-story.html
This article goes into more detail on what happened. From the description, it appears to me that the instructor did not recognize that the trainee was too physically stressed and he should have stopped the exercise.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-navy-seal-death-homicide-20160706-snap-story.html
But it is sad that anyone should end up this way, at all.
Two out of three of those deaths were outside of training… in guys dropped from training.
“…another committing suicide in April”
“after his pickup truck rolled off the side of the road”
Considering the number of deaths Navy wide involving accidents and suicide I would wager BUDS has a lower rate.
(Suicide rates in the Navy are actually down since 2009 when there was a slight increase. Accidental deaths are also similarly fewer.)