Army looks at new uniforms
Bobo sends us a link to The Army Times which reports that the Army is asking the troops about uniform changes, you know, because there isn’t enough crap going on in the world, you should be worried about a new Army Regulation 670-1, too. I know that the troops rejected that hideous “Ike jacket” thing once, but it’s back – I guess someone with stars really likes the idea, so they’re going to put it to a vote one more time. It’s not like the Army isn’t listening;
The survey has already led to one change: Soldiers are now allowed to wear black socks when they’re doing PT.
That’s why you have that private in your PT formation dressed like a 70-year-old retiree on vacation in Florida. Maybe they should put a “Members Only” collar on that Ike jacket to complete the look. More useless, pointless ideas;
Eliminating the female drill sergeant hat, with all soldiers instead wearing a single campaign hat.
Going to a single blue service cap, or “bus driver cap,” for male and female soldiers to wear with the Army Service Uniform,
Requiring senior noncommissioned officers and higher to wear the blue service cap, instead of the beret, while in the Army Service Uniform.
Changes to the fit and material of the white shirt for the Army Service Uniform.
I’m thinking that they should put those people who come up with these ideas back to work doing something useful, like giving them a rifle and train them to do something related to killing our nation’s enemies. By the way, that Ike jacket is absolutely hideous and it won’t do anything but keep the PX tailors busy.
Category: Army News
GOod grief! The fitting and tailoring would be a horrendous nightmare! And anytime you grew or shrunk anywhere for any reason, back to the tailor for a refit. It would be as bad as one of my father’s old Cadillacs – it spent more time IN the shop than ON the road.
No. No. ANd No. And did I say Hell No? Well, I just did.
Looks like crap to me….but then, I don’t have to wear the ridiculous thing!
Even worse for women. Just no.
Someone find that @@#!! Good Idea Fairy and bitch slap it back into its bottle. Then seal it up, permanently.
Let’s try putting it out of its misery once and for all. Bring it out here to Arizona and we can dig a hole in the desert and be done with it once and for all
BHWHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!
🙂
I know just the place and have access to a backhoe…
FFS, just pick one. Actually, I take that back. As long as these uniform changes come out after May 2018, I don’t GAF what they do.
With the news that comes out almost daily regarding the Army all I can say is it’s good to be retired :).
I do love my precious DD-214 blanket
Me to there is nothing like my super thick 214 blanket to protect me from all this crazy B.S.
BHWHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Going to the blue ASU was a terrible, terrible idea. Go back to a green uniform, preferably one modelled on the uniform styles of WWI and 2. Get rid of any badges worn below the pocket flap and move unit awards to the left side with the other ribbons.
I agree with you.
But, in addition, a pistol belt with a holstered pistol should be part of the uniform.
In other words, soldiers should ALWAYS be armed, whether on duty or off duty, whether on post or downtown.
I also like the idea of everyone wearing either a Cavalry Stetson or a pre-Second World War campaign hat.
You want to require privates to be armed off duty and downtown? That’s a hoot.
Your privates must have been very different when you were in from the privates I knew during my time in service.
If a private can’t be trusted with a loaded firearm, then he shouldn’t be in the Army.
Basic Combat Training is supposed to screen out any undesirables.
Military discipline will take care of the rest.
I’m glad that true idealism still exists someplace in this world.
Even if it’s only poor memory, I say “rock on, brother…”
If you can’t get the difference between having a weapon while on the job, sober, and supervised, and being downtown, then I hope to christ you have not been, and will not be in charge of soldiers.
Foolish and false.
Nowadays, in most states, EVERYONE can be armed when they’re downtown.
So, why not arm the soldiers, since they’re especially trained, and by virtue of wearing the uniform, are also high profile targets?
What the hell is up with all the siege mentality fear mongering?
In most States, you can’t carry in places that main source of revenue is the sale of alcohol. Thats a lot of arrests for carrying a weapon in violation of State statutes the Service will have to deal with.
19D, that’s the law in good ol’ Texas. Carry, licensed or not, in an establishment that makes 51% or more of its revenue from alcohol (i.e., a bar) and it’s 10 years and $20,000. Felony. All bars are required to post appropriate signage.
Yeah, but who wears their uniform downtown? On most of the installations I was stationed at, they had prohibitions on wearing BDUs/ACUs off post, and definately banned wear in any establishment that sold alcohol as it’s primary function. So what, other than their haircuts, would make them a high priority target?
Just everyone shouldn’t wear the stetson. Did you want spurs, too?
Look what happened when someone thought everyone deserved a beret.
I think we should allow you to wear anything you earned, BUT:
-We should eliminate the tradition of wearing unit awards (unless you were there) other than cords (Belgian Orange Lanyard, etc).
-We need to eliminate the Army Service Ribbon, the GWOT Service Medal, and the NCOPD ribbon. Im sure there are a few other automatic awards that I forgot.
-We should also eliminate the practice of automatic end of tour and impact awards given out by quota – AAMs for everyone following the NTC rotation (ARCOMs for the officers), BSMs for SNCOs and officers after the deployment, Field Grades and SFCs get MSMs when they PCS and MSGs and COLs get LOMs.
Wearing the uniform with the appropriate number of service stripes and bars should be enough reward for satisfactory performance. Make the awards in the system really recognize achievement rather than attendance.
How about making all the unit awards the same size?
Army Service Ribbon and NCOPD should go. Either the GWOT-SM or the NDSM should go, or the GWOT-SM needs to be more restrictive.
The GWOT Service Medal is more restrictive than the National Defense Service Medal. For GWOT-SM, you have to be in a unit that was supporting an operation related to the War on Terror outside the areas generally outside the areas that were rated for the GWOT Expeditionary Medal. You couldn’t be in a trainee status, as in formal training, while at the GWOT SM unit.
I earned my GWOT-EM for OIF 1, and GWOT-SM for actually being in a unit that provided logistics support for both OIF and OEF. Seeing BCT/OSUT Soldiers get it, just for completing BCT/OSUT, was one of the things that annoyed me. They clearly didn’t earn the GWOT-SM simply for being BCT/OSUT Soldiers.
Now, there may be an ALARACT or something equivalent that allowed them to do this, or this may have been a serious oversight. The explanation that I got, for them getting the GWOT-SM, was covered by the justification for the National Defense Service Medal. Whichever the case, when I saw my brother graduate OSUT a couple years ago, the new Soldiers didn’t have the GWOT-SM.
Looking at the requirement for both, it’s possible to have the NDSM, but not the GWOT-SM.
Meant “generally outside the GWOT-EM areas, not outside the outside”.
This idea is a good one, Former11b. It’s a shame that you’re not the Good Idea Fairy on this uniform board!
“They” only listen to these surveys when it supports their preconceived notions.
When asked about getting rid of the greens, surveys supported either minor changes or going back to pinks & greens. Instead we ended up with the bus driver ASU.
Now with the Ike jacket and the service cap, the Army will complete the transition to the Ralph Kramden service uniform.
Ralph Kramden in similar uniform:
Jonn, can you post the image under-below the official photo?
I’ve got the pattern for a jacket like that, if any of you want to order it.
It’s loose and blousey, the waist holds a length of wide-band elastic to fit any individual changes of girth, I can add an inside pocket with a waterproof lining for important papers and documents, a hidden pouch in the back for Secret Squirrel Stuff, a detachable Primaloft liner for cold weather, and a color block to show which battle group you belong to.
Buttons are cheap and gold-plated. All ribbon racks are pin-on, ditto name tags, above front pockets. Epaulettes can be added for shoulder rank, or your rank pins can be worn on the collar points. Wearable with a shirt and tie, or a with contrasting ribbed turtleneck sweater, or if work-related, a same-color turtleneck.
Color choices are olive drab, black or Navy blue.
I wanna dress up like a cute Army guy. You charge by the hour or per jacket.
They look good but can they fight, General.
HT: The Dirty Dozen.
Khakis were on their way out when I first came in. Liked that as a Class B uniform. Go back to the Greens, and take the Blues back to a formal uniform, loved them big service stripes.
I think the new dress blue “Ike” jacket would look perfect when wearing my kilt and plaid.
Now, if only I could afford to buy one of those jackets!
Do you reckon I could get one from the Marlowe White web site?
At the last Scottish festival I went to, the soles of my dress shoes had a chemical reaction to whatever was sprayed on the grass, causing the soles of my shoes to completely disintegrate.
I can’t afford to buy new shoes, so from now on, when I put on my kilt, I’ll have to wear my jump boots.
But, then again, because of distance and the cost of gasoline, I rarely go to any Scottish or Celtic festivals.
Well the hideous ASU makes soldiers look like doormen or sky caps, so adding the awful “Ike jacket” would just make them look like shopping mall rent-a-cops. Way to go, Army uniform board.
I guess if Soldiers DON’T like the latest uniform all they’ll have to do is wait six months for the pampered powdered four-starred Princes of the Pentagon to change it yet again.
Actually G-1 Uniform Policy is all NCO run, they don’t even report to one of the G-1 directorate O-6s.
Most of this crap is created by overpaid civilians at “Centers of Excellence”. Personally, I think it all started with “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy”, but what do I know?
Khakis for Class B’s and Greens for Class A’s were the best. I was fine with the pickle suit until it went polyester permanent press and we all looked like some kind of landscaping company cult. It’s all about confusing ISIS. They’ll never know what the hell we’re going to look like.
Army brass acts like it’s their own personal fashion show over there.
I have some insight into this-
WRT the Ike Jacket, this is being driven by the fact that the services are going back to wearing service uniforms at the Pentagon- Class B for the Army, khaki for the Navy, etc.
I was at the pentagon a few weeks ago. The current Army Class B (blue pants with gold stripe and a white shirt) is absolutely ridiculous, especially the GO version (black pants), and especially when compared to the other services. Don’t get me started on what it looks like with jump boots (It is basically what mall cops would wear if the mall wanted them to look like a Bangladeshi border guard so no one would take them seriously)
This, and the fact that most pentagon workers are 40-50 something and not quite as svelte as they used to be, means that most Army pentagon workers wear their black windbreaker, which looks really stupid when worn inside all day. So, the Ike jacket is a way to camouflage both the growing belly and poor Army fashion choices.
The new requirement for the Service Cap is the next step in the incremental phase-out of the black beret. Now it will only be worn for ceremonies and by junior enlisted Soldiers in ASUs. Soon we will eliminate it for that purpose, and it will basically be the replacement for the Garrison Cap. R
Bad choice if the intent is to camouflage a paunch. ANY short-waisted jacket (like the Ike jacket) visually accentuates a paunch. A longer-wasited jacket hides it better.
If you don’t believe that, have someone who’s got a bit of a paunch put on a set of old “pickle suit” fatigues, then any uniform that doesn’t tuck the shirt (BDU, cammies, jungles, ACU, current UCP – AKA “BDU Phase 2”). The visual difference will be immediate and marked.
Ever see a fat sailor in Cracker Jacks? That’s a real case-in-point!
I think the Ike jacket looks ridiculous- maybe if we had kept the old service uniform it would look OK, but the Army isn’t really good at this.
The windbreaker looks really out of place when worn indoors all day long, plus there’s no real excuse for wearing it in DC during the summer. Wearing the ASU jacket would be inappropriate and a pain in the ass.
This is basically a stupid move all the way around. We’ve destroyed our tradition and tried to replace it with flair, now we are trying to revive something that once worked out of desperation.
If it’s loose and blousey, to make room for Secret Squirrel stuff, then it will also accommodate the inevitable increase in girth.
If the Pentagon uses my design, it will cover up a lot of sins. No one will know if you’re hiding an excess consumption of beer and brats, or carrying a load of Secret Squirrel docs in your upper level clothing. And furthermore, those gals with what appears to be excessive mammary tissue will easily fit into the crowd.
As for camo – have you guys seen my duckhunting suit? It’s priceless.
Pics on the duckhunting suit, please (or it didn’t happen).
Makes sense that this is driven by people in the pentagon wanting a uniform they could sit around in all day.
“Alex, I will take ‘GHEY MILITARY ATTIRE, ACCESSORIES AND FASHION’ for $1,000.00 please”.
“And lets make it a true daily double”
Ass clowns trying to make their mark before retirement.
Add tails to the Ike jacket and a bowtie to the shirt, and it would look fabulous. In a Broadway showtunes kinda way…
Did someone say, “show tunes”.
I am all in!
Calm down, MCPO. I don’t think that qualifies as “underway”. (smile)
Do not forget the top hat and cane.
Yup!
Now we have gotten rid of the Army beret for everybody lets take away organization headgear (berets) for those senior NCO’s that earned it.
I remember one time at Fort Braggs NCO academy around 1996 the student class leader decided no berets for any student will be worn. You could here the commandant’s meltdown all the way across the post. Needles’s to say that headgear was changed out.
I remember that. The great snow flake melting of 1996. Such a tragedy.
Now that I am permanently retired my ASU’s shall remain forever in storage until the moths and mousies have their way with them. If I ever do anything of a “General Military Nature” it will be in appropriate civilian attire with miniatures or just the lapel pin.
Nooooooo! Just stop.
While the ASU isn’t perfect (the greens could have been fixed with good real fabrics), it is nice that NCO’s and officers only had to maintain one uniform.
Campaign Hat M1911: This actually was a pre-WWI general issue uniform item, it was only issued in a limited fashion (US based cavalry units, and overseas troops in tropical environments) during the interwar years.
Dunno … my grandfather was a mule skinner in the 6th Infantry at Jefferson Barracks from 1936-41 and wore the campaign hat during that time. He said it was the worst hat ever designed: once it got wet it lost all shape and function.
Probably because it was wool felt instead of fur felt. I think the higher-grades wore fur felt (Stetson, etc.).
Sergeants Major everywhere are going to love this!
Maybe we should start pushing more transgender attire.
Dumb ass Army.
Oh God, that is one hideous uniform. Me, I think we should adapt the designs from Starship Troopers. Now that’s a classy uniform. (Just the Mobile Infantry ones – not the Fleet ones with the ridiculous lapels!)
What’s wrong with Battlestar Galactica? You got the classic version, with the old uniform, and the updated version with the newer uniform, 40 years later.
Personally, I like the ST:NG Starfleet uniforms after they added the jacket. Made it easier to do the Picard maneuver.
Both are good picks. ST:NG with jacket was a class act.
This ridiculous shit is just getting out of control. I personally think the Ike jacket looks great…with pinks and greens and a garrison cap, just like it was worn 70 years ago. But this iteration is a no go all the way around.
I haven’t seen this comment, but how about going back to khaki’s? When done right they looked sharp and there was no doubt in anyone’s mind the wearer was a soldier.
In the only photo I have of my dad in uniform, he is wearing his TW (Tropical Worsted, i.e. khaki) jacket and green service cap (dad was an officer and the TW was an optional purchase item.) It was actually a very sharp looking uniform.
They still had khakis when I came in in 1980 but only the short sleeved version. I actually like the WWII and post-war style long sleeve khaki uniform with the garrison (a/k/a overseas) cap and the necktie tucked into the shirt. Particularly when worn with jump boots that was a very classy looking uniform.
What…you all don’t know that the US Army is spending our tax dollars AGAIN because they want to Keep Up with the Ks?
I served in the Army from the 1980s to the 2000 time period. And I am giving away my Gender, because I still have my Lime Green Uniform that I had to wear with my Black Mushroom Beret.
I also still have the Yellow Banana Suit PT uniform. And the other PT uniforms that kept changing.
And oh the covers and boots and uniforms I have collected through out the years…HOARDER! 🙂
In reality, things don’t change. My Dad served from the 1940s to the 1970s..and he went thru the same thing…as I am sure others posting on this site have as well..
Thank goodness I am now retired. Because if I had to buy another uniform, I would end up doing this:
Does anyone else remember the great shade change of the early 1990’s where the Army Class “A” uniform went to a slightly darker shade of green, requiring everyone to purchase or be issued a very slightly different uniform. That was about the same time that the shoulder boards went from green to black. It’s nice to see that the uniform stupidity continues.
Ah yes, I remember that bit of abject stupidity very well. You could only tell the old and new uniforms apart if you literally laid them side-by-side on a white background and looked closely (and even then, it was damn close). The old and new uniforms were otherwise identical – same cut, same trim, same pockets/buttons/placement, and the insignia all went in exactly the same locations on both old and new.
And after a few cleanings, sometimes you couldn’t tell the old version from the new one.
That is my personal candidate for the most asinine uniform decision in US military history: the mandatory “change without a change” – except in the soldier’s/Uncle Sam’s bank balance.
I only have a vague memory of that but since the only time we ever wore class As was to a promotion board I don’t think it was ever enforced.
I do remember that the quality of those GI-issued green uniforms was terribly cheap.
When it came time to replace mine, I was stationed at Bragg so I went to a consignment shop off-post and bought a non-issue (i.e. higher quality) jacket for maybe $25. That’s the one I kept until I retired and it wasn’t hard to find a pair of pants that matched.
And that’s precisely my point – it wasn’t well-enforced (or enforced at all) because it was for all practical purposes no change at all. All it did was force people to get a new uniform that was virtually identical to one they already had.
At least changing to ACUs and the ASU changed something. In effect, the 1990s greens change didn’t change a damn thing.
I’ve often wondered if someone on the Army Uniform Board got a “one-time payday” from sources outside DoD for foisting the “new greens” on the Army.
The Army is giving my wife a run for her money with how often it looks at new clothes.
Seriously, though, the last time the Army’s uniform really looked sharp was circa 1945. Old-school OD greens and khakis, bus driver and garrison hats, and no Goddamn berets. I’m sorry, but berets are ghey–unless of course they happen to be green. I’m aware of the fact that they’re worn by lots of guys who can kick my ass, but it’s true. And the only reason they’re part of the uniform now is because Shinseki didn’t get to be a Green Beret and decided to be a little bitch about it.
Oh well, not my problem.
I don’t agree WRT berets. When properly worn they look sharp and distinctive. Back when only elite units wore them, the “old timers” would indoctrinate the new guys on how to properly wear the beret, and as a result most of them were pretty squared away.
But when the Army started issuing berets en masse to everybody, and you might have an entire company or battalion where literally nobody in that unit from the commander on down had EVER worn a beret, that’s when the soup sandwich berets started appearing.
The thing about a beret is you can’t wear it “off the shelf.” It has to be shaped, shaved and wetted down in order to look right.
Having said all that, the “soft” garrison cap of WWII and Korea was also a sharp, distinctive looking piece of headgear, could be carried on the belt (unlike the service “bus driver hat”) and could be worn off the shelf. The dress green “stiff” garrison cap looked terrible IMO with its “conehead” appearance.
Really I think the best looking Army dress uniform of all time was the officer’s “Pinks and Greens” of WWII and Korea. Bring that back – although for all ranks – with a soft garrison cap and keep the saucer hat as an optional purchase item.
BTW the most egregious error of the ASU was the deletion of the SSI (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia.) That is one historic part of an Army uniform that ought to have been retained.
I’m guessing political correctness was partly if not largely to blame for the demise of the garrison cap (AKA “overseas cap”). Google “overseas cap nickname” if you’d like to see why. (smile)
Oh, I don’t have to google it. 😉
Shame on you, Hondo..
🙂
The Army never wore SSI on the Blue Uniform.
It left the guys/gals who thought up the goat rope to figure out a compromise. Naturally, that compromise took a piece of coin (the average CSIB is around 10 bucks) out of the soldiers pocket.
True but there’s no reason they couldn’t put them on there. All they’d have to do is change the border color on the patches from green to blue, the way they did with the rank insignia for enlisted.
SSIs are a great Army tradition that goes back to the Civil War (revived and “regularized” during WWI) and one of the few really distinctive items that make Army uniforms different from those of other services.
I don’t disagree that the SSI is distinctive of the Army uniform, but what was distinctive of the blue was that it never had any patches.
The powers that be did some test with the patches on and off, and the “off” just looked better. All the different color patches just clashed with the blue.
Originally, there wasn’t going to be any additional appurtenance for former units, just the service stripes and medals (which I personally would have been fine with). So the compromise on a pin on insignia.
“Green side out, brown side out,
Run in circles, scream and shout!”
Loved those books with that name as well…
I did too! Read them all from cover to cover several times. Wish I’d kept them…loaned a couple of them out (never returned), lost the others during PCS moves. They ain’t cheap now 🙁
Two words came to mind when I saw this photo….BUS BOY!
Until the Army dumps the foolish attachment to the different color pants to imitate fake “faded” trouser the Army uniform will continue to look like crap.
And what really irks me is that the whole “faded” pants thing is a false. It is a myth that won’t die. Cavalry soldiers pants did not fade sufficiently to be anywhere near different blues. The fading imperceptible.
You must really live in a world of make believe in the University of the Peoples’ Republic of Berkley. The sky blue trousers for all branches of the army started in the 1850’s and lasted until just before WWI when khaki and brown took over. Sky blue trousers were that color when issued and were not the result of fading from the sun. You obviously know nothing about army uniform history. Try reading a book on the uniforms of the army you claim to serve.
So NOW instead of looking like Bus Drivers they’re supposed to look like a Waiter or Maitre’ d?
This uniform looks so bad. The ike jacket look ridiculous.
I’d be willing to bet that for the first time everybody here agrees with you.
WRT ribbons and medals: When was the last time the Army did away with or deleted an award? IMO the following need to be ended: Army Service Ribbon (the uniform itself should be enough to show that you served), the NCOPD Ribbon (the rank should be enough), Reserve mobilization awards (if you are mobilized you ought to be entitled to a campaign ribbon of some sort which should suffice), duplicative campaign awards (like the AFSM which was a kind of “AFEM-lite” concocted for the Bosnia operation), the GWOTSM (if everybody gets one then it takes the place of the NDSM), etc. I would also give serious consideration to doing away with the Overseas Service Ribbon (OSR) since, again, most serving overseas will probably end up with a campaign ribbon or two anyway, and also the AAM.
The thing about awards is that the more of them there are the less they mean. Look at a typical WWII combat veteran, most came home with a single rack of ribbons: One or two campaign ribbons and maybe a good conduct medal. If that was enough for the Greatest Generation then there’s no reason that a Staff Sergeant with 10 years in and an average career track should look like a Soviet Field Marshal.
People serving during the 1970s and 1980s might disagree with you about the “will probably end up with a campaign ribbon or two anyway” part. As I recall, between 1973 and 1990 there weren’t too many opportunities for that.
That’s EXACTLY my point though.
Our current ribbon and medal proliferation started, it seems, in the post-Vietnam period as a way to boost morale of the peacetime Army that didn’t have much opportunity for earning actual campaign awards.
Given that the GWOT is likely to be a “long twilight struggle” I don’t see that happening again for a long time. Our fighters will have plenty of opportunity to earn campaign ribbons and those who hide out in safe stateside billets shouldn’t be given fruit salad for staying out of the fray.
People who hang out in CONUS don’t get the OSR – and serving overseas IMO deserves some recognition, even in peacetime. It’s not the same as serving in CONUS.
I do think we need to go back to the previous “no OSR if campaign or expeditionary medal awarded” policy, though.
I also don’t have much of a problem with recognition for RC personnel who get involuntarily mobilized, or who volunteer to serve in support of contingency operations. Both of those are rather disruptive to their normal lives and careers.
I agree that the ASR and GWOTSM could go away and we’d be no worse off. Probably the NCOPDR as well.
When I was in the Army, there was no Army Achievement Ribbon, when I graduated from NCO Academy, there was no NCO Professional Development Ribbon, and when I served in Germany, there was no Overseas Service Ribbon.
Everything else I did during my Army service was rewarded or recognized by appropriate (?) decorations and medals.
OOPS!
It was the Army SERVICE Ribbon that didn’t exist when I was a soldier.
But, then, the Army Achievement Medal didn’t exist back then, either.
Also, the Air Assault Qualification Badge and the Combat Action Badge didn’t exist when I was a soldier.
I was given the Air Assault Qualification Badge as an honorary award.
Based on my own experience, I think EVERY non-infantry soldier who was in Viet Nam should be awarded the Combat Action Badge, but it is not authorized to be awarded retroactively.
The retroactive award of the CAB has been submitted for inclusion in the NDAA the last several years. DOD asked that it be excluded this year as they (DOD) were finishing conduct of an extensive study of the awards across all the services.
The review was supposed to be on the SECDEF desk in August 2015……you may notice its now December.
God, I hope the Army has enough sense to avoid opening that can of worms. That would be the Nightmare from Hell, documentation-wise.
Agree. DOD agrees for the same reason. But, Congress is involved so you never know what will happen eventually.
To Quote John Robert Mallernee:
“I was given the Air Assault Qualification Badge as an honorary award.”
WHAT?
I then read what you wrote on this site:
https://disqus.com/by/writesong/
“In 1969 until 1972, when I was in the old Republic of Viet Nam, I was a Field Radio Relay and Carrier Equipment Repair Technician (MOS 31 L 20), assigned in Saigon at the Phu Lam Signal Battalion of the 1st Signal Brigade, then at the 178th Maintenance Company at Dong Ha, and later, at the 501st Signal Battalion (Airmobile) of the 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile)……
The Air Assault Qualification Badge also can’t be awarded retroactively for service in Viet Nam with the 101st Airborne Division, where our Screaming Eagle Replacement Training School (i.e., “S.E.R.T.S.”, also known as, “P” training) was equivalent to today’s Air Assault School at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, PLUS, our graduation exercise was an actual helicopter assault on an enemy position.
So, in response to my ignorant inquiry, the Commandant of the Air Assault School mailed me a certificate designating me an “Honorary Air Assault Soldier”, with my silver wings pinned to it, which I now proudly wear.”
And I saw what you posted as your awards/ribbon rack on your Website.
And then I am now reading some other comments that you seem to be using AR 670-1 for your own personal benefit.
Your postings are becoming alarming and hypocritical. You hop on the bandwagon when it comes to Phonies, yet, in my belief, you are doing the exact same thing they are.
There is no such thing as an honorary Air Assault Badge, John. And I see in some of your pictures, you are wearing it.
What was the name of the Commandant of the Air Assault School and when did he mail you a certificate designating you an Honorary Air Assault Soldier, which is a term I have never heard of.
You did not earn the Air Assault Badge, John. Take it off your Website. Do not wear it anymore to all your functions to include your church. Practice what you preach.
Here’s the URL where you can view my certificate:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/writesong/7919536416/in/album-72157600591053018/lightbox/
Every soldier assigned to the 101st Airborne in Viet Nam completed that course AND participated in a helicopter assault on an NVA position.
Yeah but when you were in the Army the rock was still a secret weapon and the CIB had a club on it instead of a rifle. 😀
His first battle drill went something like this:
First rank kneel!
Second rank advance!
🙂
I believe the last time the Army deleted an aaward/badge was circa 1980 when they shut down the Army Nuclear Power Program. So the Reactor Operator Badges were all eliminated for award, but you could still wear them if you had earned them. I knew people who were still wearing them–legitimately–in 2010. But they were few, far between, and pretty senior in rank.
Before that, it was probably the Glider Badge–in 1947.
Final note about Ike jackets: Look at photos of WWII and post-WWII soldiers in Ike jackets. One of the thing that you notice is how skinny most of those guys were.
Incidentally the Marines also had a short, waist-length jacket for a short time. It was usually called the Vandegrift jacket.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/225447-wwii-era-usmc-vandegrift-jacket/
Yep. People forget that World War II came after a decade-plus long thing called the “Great Depression”. Much of urban and small/medium town America literally had a helluva time getting enough to eat during those days. People then were much thinner than today.
There’s an antique mall near me that has some old military items for sale including a complete WWII uniform with an ike jacket, from a Staff Sergeant who served in the 3rd ID (left sleeve) and 36th ID (TXNG), (Right sleeve.)
What struck me was how small the thing is. I’ll bet the jacket is maybe a chest size 35 or so. I probably wouldn’t have fit into that jacket after the age of about 15.
Oh, the other thing that struck me was the exceptionally fine quality of the wool in both the jacket and the pants. Not like today’s polyester crap, for sure.
I came across a post on another blog the other day which had the demographic data of a Naval Construction Battalion. The average height was 5-8 1/2 and the average weight was 151 lbs. The average age was 24, though I think the CBs skewed a little older as they tended to recruit already trained personnel.
Army’s changing the uniform, again? Huh. Must be Wednesday.
Any attempts to change that uniform again should trigger an immediate Witch Hunt style investigation all over whomever started the attempt. Waste and abuse at the very least. I’m finding it real hard not to believe that money’s changing hands too.
Am I the only one who actually likes the ASUs? I think that they look quite good, aside from some nitpitcks. For instance, the combat and unit patches being turned into badges makes no sense to me and makes the uniform look overloaded. Why not keep them on the sleeves like before? Also no a fan of the shoulder boards for officers, the pin on rank looked nicer imo. Finally, does anyone else find it weird how unit insignia and foreign awards are shifted around to keep them from being covered up by the lapel? Maybe I’m a bit OCD, but I don’t think it looks good, all uncentered. And if it was up to me, I’d also add a belt, like the USMC greens do.
But aside from that, I like how there is only one uniform that covers Class A, B, and formal wear. We’re not the Navy, three types of uniforms is plenty. And I actually like the colors.
Pretty much.
They were fine when they were formal wear called “Dress Blues”. Those got worn maybe half a dozen times in a career unless you were part of the “DC cocktail circuit”.
As a replacement for the Class A and Class B – well, speaking for myself . . . IMO they suck The Grand Wazoo.
Yes. 😀
If they really want to raise morale, bring back the liquor ration when deployed
^^^Amen Bro! Preach It!!!^^^
This was meant to be under Hondo’s comment. But I agree with these 2 also!
Not quite the right forum, but since its uniform related…..
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/22/460694035/bowe-bergdahl-defers-entering-plea-at-arraignment
1. Why is he wearing an infantry cord when assigned to 5th Army?
2. Who issued him two Good Conduct Medals? I was pretty sure his status was still undetermined as to whether it was “Good” or not?
Why is he wearing SGT (E-5) stripes, I thought they promoted him to SSG (E-6)?
Also his CSIB was 25th ID. I thought he was in the 82nd Airborne?
It’s my understanding that he’s getting a General Court Martial versus a Special, let’s hope he gets the time in the USDB and the DD he deserves. Like I said before, in a perfect world he’d also face manslaughter charges from his fellow Troops being KIA while searching for him. Has he even tried to express even a smidgen of remorse over his fellow Troops getting KIA and WIA while trying to find him?
His Hash marks look impressive but he was on the other side.
At least he was smart enough not to wear his Taliban Commendation Medal. 😀
I wonder the Goat Lovers made him an honorary CPO just like Bernasty. Perhaps we will find out from his next roommate Bradly Manning.
I wonder if they didn’t make him their honorary GOAT on more than a few “Man-love Thursday” nights?
“Its not gay if your in a cave”.
An old Taliban saying.
I was thinking the same thing when I saw him on the news this morning. Ten (maybe 11) overseas bars.
Since he’s a paratrooper in an airborne unit, shouldn’t he be wearing jump wings and a maroon beret?
He never eared jump wings. He also never earned that rank.
John, am quoting YOU to answer your question:
“Just because an Army regulation specifies one thing, does not necessarily preclude other things that are unmentioned or implied.
I prefer observing the spirit of the regulation, which is to do whatever is patriotic, respectful, and appropriate….
When properly attired, and when exhibiting proper conduct in public, a decorated military veteran can present a positive influence on those with whom they come in contact, i.e., reinforcing the public’s feelings of patriotism and respect.
Of course, it’s all up to the individual military veteran, and what their intentions are.
As stated, I like to observe the spirit of the regulation.”
This is an excerpt from a letter sent to a command in response for information to create a retirement award recommendation. Based on comments today, it seemed appropriate to post it.
The military has always been a microcosm of society as a whole during whatever era it happens to be. If you look at personal awards through history, you will notice a significant increase through the years. WWII vets who served continuously and heroically in combat for three to four years without a break normally had two rows of ribbons. A few standouts were singled out for greater recognition. Today, our military personnel are beginning to look like 3rd world dictators.
Gone are the days when a Letter of Appreciation or Commendation was sufficient for recognizing superior performance. Yesterday’s Achievement Medal is today’s Bronze Star Medal. We hand out Service Ribbons and Course Completion Ribbons when clearly; wearing the uniform or rank means you had to complete those requirements.
Today, it seems like we have forgotten our reason for existence in the military is to serve our country. While reasonable compensation for our efforts is certainly warranted, we seem to have lost something in the pursuit of being “owed” for that service. Military personnel are encouraged, and even trained, to file for disability compensation before separation, regardless of combat experience or serious injury.
We go out of our way to accommodate every possible social and economic situation at the risk of mission readiness. Those kinds of things used to be command and leadership issues handled at the local level.
It continues, but you get the idea. Things have never been perfect in our military. However, it’s now more about making an individual feel good than the mission.
One of the things I liked when Commanders’ Coins first caught on was that it helped to strengthen the award system. Instead of everybody getting Achievement Medals, you’d hand out coins, and the younger troops loved them. Some would tell you outright tehy’d rather have a coin than a medal. “I’ve already got an Achievement Medal. But I don’t have a coin from this battalion yet.” Of course, with time they got handed out so often they lost their value as well. When I was commanding as a LTC, I had a lot of high ranking visitors, so was averaging receiving a coin a week from somebody. And the only one that really meant anything was the one from the Secretary of the Army–he gave it to me on 9-11. And part of the satisfaction for that one is that I can say “See that–I got that one from the VP who ran the division that ruined ENRON.”
Correction–I had two coins with meaning. The Enron one, and the one from my Driver’s OCS class. She gave me one when I went to Benning to commission her and her husband.
I’ve given this jacket more thought than I need to.
Get rid of the top button – it makes the jacket bunch up.
Get rid of the breast pockets – they make the jacket too crowded.
Get rid of the hash marks – they aren’t necessary for a jacket, a service blouse yes; a jacket no.
All together it looks as though someone took scissors to a service blouse.
The Uniform racket is the same as most defense contractors but in reality worse.
There hasnt been many practical reasons to change the uniforms, especially dress ones, in decades.
Yup, this x 1000. The Army uniform board might as well be called the “Department of Fixing what ain’t broke.”
To Quote John Robert Mallernee: “I was given the Air Assault Qualification Badge as an honorary award.” WHAT? I then read what you wrote on this site: https://disqus.com/by/writesong/ “In 1969 until 1972, when I was in the old Republic of Viet Nam, I was a Field Radio Relay and Carrier Equipment Repair Technician (MOS 31 L 20), assigned in Saigon at the Phu Lam Signal Battalion of the 1st Signal Brigade, then at the 178th Maintenance Company at Dong Ha, and later, at the 501st Signal Battalion (Airmobile) of the 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile)…… The Air Assault Qualification Badge also can’t be awarded retroactively for service in Viet Nam with the 101st Airborne Division, where our Screaming Eagle Replacement Training School (i.e., “S.E.R.T.S.”, also known as, “P” training) was equivalent to today’s Air Assault School at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, PLUS, our graduation exercise was an actual helicopter assault on an enemy position. So, in response to my ignorant inquiry, the Commandant of the Air Assault School mailed me a certificate designating me an “Honorary Air Assault Soldier”, with my silver wings pinned to it, which I now proudly wear.” I saw what you posted as your awards/ribbon rack on your Website. The Air Assault Badge. Now I am reading some other comments that you seem to be using AR 670-1 for your own personal benefit. Your postings are becoming alarming and hypocritical. You hop on the bandwagon when it comes to Phonies, yet, in my belief, you are doing the exact same thing they are. There is no such thing as an honorary Air Assault Badge, John. And I see in some of your pictures, you are wearing it. What was the name of the Commandant of the Air Assault School and WHEN did he mail you a certificate designating you an Honorary Air Assault Soldier, which is a term I have never heard of??? You did not earn the Air Assault Badge, John. You need to take it off your Website. You should not wear it anymore to all your functions, both military and nonmilitary to include your church… Read more »
Here is the URL where you can view a copy of my certificate:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/writesong/7919536416/in/album-72157600591053018/lightbox/
Every soldier assigned to the 101st Airborne in Viet Nam completed that course AND participated in a helicopter assault on an NVA position.
And I’m here to tell you that there was no comparison between the little SERTS indoctrination class given in RVN (which I attended) and the course of instruction that was laid out in the regular Airmobile/Air Assault School at Fort Campbell.
Saying they were just the same is pretty ludicrous in an attempt to justify wearing a “honorary” badge as a regularly awarded badge.
Claw: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. So far all I hear are chirping crickets from JRM AOR.
John Robert Mallernee: To quote you: “Every soldier assigned to the 101st Airborne in Viet Nam completed that course AND participated in a helicopter assault on an NVA position.” AR 600-8-22, paragraph 8-26a2 states: The basic eligibility criteria consist of satisfactory COMPLETION of the following: “The standard Air Assault Course while ASSIGNED OR ATTACHED to the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) SINCE 1 APRIL 1974. AND “Vietnam veterans of the 101st Airborne Division and 1st Cavalry Division have sought the retroactive award of the Air Assault Badge for their training and pioneering experience in combat, but the Army has yet to grant their request”: “1995 – Vietnam combat veterans write to PERSCOM Awards branch for retroactive Air Assault awards and are advised that the Army “considered and rejected” the retroactive award of the Air Assault Badge to Vietnam Airmobile and Air Cavalry veterans. 1997 – 101st Airborne Division refers requests for retroactive Air Assault Badges from Vietnam Airmobile and Air Cavalry combat veterans to PERSCOM as the “proponent to the military awards regulations governing the Air Assault Badge”. 1998 – PERSOM Army Awards Branch Conducts an “exhaustive study and research” concerning the retroactive awarding of the Air Assault Badge to soldiers which does nothing to bring about the retroactive awarding of the Air Assault Badge 2000 – In response to a Congressional inquiry about retroactive Air Assault awards for Vietnam Airmobile and Air Cavalry combat veterans, the PERSOM Military Awards Branch now indicates that the proponent for the Air Assault Badge is the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault). 2001 – 101st Airborne Division recommends individuals may apply to the Commanding General for retroactive Air Assault awards. A test application was completely ignored (there was no response from MG Cody despite several documented and verified written requests). 2002 – Major General David H. Petraeus assumes command of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) and agrees to develop an honorary Air Assault certificate for former Screaming Eagles in conjunction with the 101st Airborne Division Association. The certificate is planned to include an ‘authorized to wear’ statement. 2003- Development of the honorary certificate… Read more »
I would also note that this certificate only says “Honorary Air Assualt Trooper.” My certificate from about the same time period (August, 1980) specifically states that I am authorized to wear the Air Assault Badge. This one doesn’t include any such statement.
Don H, I saw the same thing.
YOU are entitled to wear the Bullwinkle Badge.
John Robert Mallernee IS NOT unless he is willing to prove it besides showing his “Certificate”.
Have seen pictures of him WEARING the badge…
And on his Website, he has as one of his decorations the Badge.
Don, one of the reasons behind your certificate saying you are authorized to wear the Air Assault Badge as a permanent award is that from 1974 to 1978 when the badge was known as The Airmobile Badge was that the many hundreds (if not thousands) of soldiers who had completed the school were informed that upon PCS or ETS it had to be removed from their uniform as it was “authorized for local wear only.”
I kind of have a unique perspective on this whole thing as I was assigned to the 101st Airborne both in RVN and also back at Fort Campbell from 1971 to 1974.
To me wearing a “honorary” Air Assault Badge as part of the regular ribbon rack like it was issued as a certified award is the same as old Bernasty wearing his “honorary” CPO rank he claimed he received from the Combat Photographer’s Association. But YMMV.
Claw, great minds think alike…Well, JRM?
Retire Army.
It doesn’t matter what AR 600-8-22 says today, what matters is what regulatory guidance was in effect in 1984 when the 101st issued JRM his certificate (I believe it was AR 672-5-1 or even some other MILPER message).
As we all know, guidance, regulations, and interpretation of law changes over time. For instance, in Vietnam units authorized award of the CIB after and infantry man had completed 30 days in the bush. This was MACV’s interpretation of having conducted “active ground combat”. In the late 90’s the regulation was redefined to the “personally present and under fire” standard that currently exists.
Not to change the subject, but about those black socks . . .
My understanding is that it was an optional wear item. And it does make the Ninja winter PT uniform look much bettter than being all black with white ankles. I think if I were still in (and some CSM didn’t put a sock policy in place), I’d probably wear white socks with the summer uniform and black socks with the winter one.
While not still in, I have to admit that all of my PT sox (black, white, and God forbid gray) are to short. At my gym, we can always tell the Army guys due to the height of their sox.
Well they HAVE to be mid-calf. Because you know how much ankle support a good pair of socks provides when you’re running . . .
Got to admit, I hadn’t heard that reasoning before. 🙂
Luddite4Change:
Thank you for the info on AR 672-5-1.
I read it.
It all states the same:
“The Commander, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) may award the Air Assault Badge to any individual who has satisfactory completed the prescribed proficiency test and the standard Air Assault Course while assigned or attached to the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) SINCE 1 APRIL 1974.
I also read the 1974 version of AR 672-5-1. The Air Assault Badge is not even mentioned in the 1974 regulation.
There was a Vietnam Veteran who went before the Army Board of Corrections in 2001 who requested he be awarded the Air Assault Badge.
They denied his Claim: “Inasmuch as the Air Assault Badge was not an authorized award during the period in question and since the applicant has failed to show that he meets the qualifications for such an award, there is no basis to award him the Air Assault Badge.”
boards.law.af.mil/ARMY/BCMR/CY2001/2001051639C070420.rtf
That is why I asked JRM if he has an Air Assault Badge annotated on his DD 214…or if he went before the Army Board of Corrections and they approved the Badge for him and issued him a DD215 for correction.
No problem, not much going on at work today.
Interesting that the citation above the one you copied stated that:
“Commanders of divisions and separate brigades may award the Air Assault Badge to any assigned or attached individual who satisfactorily completes an air assault training course in accordance, with the TRADOC standardized Air Assault Corse Program of Instruction.”
I’d note that this part of the regulation included no prohibition on retroactive awards, so it wouldn’t surprise me if individuals on active duty had orders for the Air Assault Badge issued at some point, if they could prove that the course they completed in VN met the requirements of the TRADOC POI. (Note, doesn’t make it right, but I can see that happening back then.)
The Air Assault Badge is in the 1974 reg, but its included as one of the 8 changes that were issued/posted between 1974 and 1982.
This reminded me why it was such a pain in the ass before the electronic library made stuff so easy. The downside is that people get lazy and don’t take the time to figure out what was authorized at a specific time, along with the what and why of the changes.
Thanks for the link to the BCMR document. The loser (and since it appears he faked documentation, he is one) didn’t provide any evidence that he completed any training. If he had the documented training, he likely could have made a case that the requirements of the 1974/1984 regulations should have applied. Equally likely is the fact that the BCMR would have dismissed his request as well being outside the 5 year time limit anyway.
The SERTS training that JRM referred to was just part of the normal in-processing routine for the 101st.
I know. I went through the SERTS deal up at Camp Evans when I was coming in country. It was something that occupied the time while the 101st repo depot was figuring out which outfit you were going to be sent to.
There were no Certificates of Training issued, no entry on your 2-1 as a course/class completion, nada,zero,zilch documentation to say you had done it.
And once I got to my company down on Phu Bai nobody ever asked me “Did you go to SERTS?” before you signed in for duty and were added to the morning report.
Doing the SERTS class was no big deal. It wasn’t anything compared to what they taught later on when the Airmobile/Air Assault school started up there at Campbell.
Thanks for info, I knew that most units in VN had some type of indoc program but no idea of what they entailed.
Still, given what was written in the early regulations, I could see where orders could have been issued for the badge. I doubt the Army of the 70’s had a shortage people who would have asked and maybe been granted their authorization orders. I saw and heard all kinds of shenanigans from with paperwork from one of my admin warrants who worked at Army IG when I was a young trouper in the 80’s (order’s being changed the Bronze Star to Silver seems to have been popular with that generation).
Great information, Claw. I hope John is reading all of this and will do the right thing.
When I was a Company Commander, an overweight troop showed up to our unit wearing Airborne Wings. And yes, my entire Chain of Command questioned him wearing the wing.
When questioned, he stated he was given an “Honorary” Airborne Wing while assigned to the Airborne School at Benning….he then admitted that he never attended the three week course.
He had to redo his uniform to take off the Wing.
His credibility with our unit went downhill after that.
He later went AWOL on us.
Luddite4Change:
Once again, thank you.
I make mistakes all the time, so in reference to the 1974 regulation, I most likely overlooked it and did not pay attention. Thank you for letting me know.
If you have the time, please go to this site and type in Air Assault Badge. You will find documents from other Vietnam Vets who were trying to correct their records on being awarded the Badge.
http://boards.law.af.mil/cgi-bin/htsearch
Some were approved because they had orders. Others were not.
In one case, the Army Board of Corrections wrote “On 19 July 2005, the Human Resources Command confirmed that there is no retroactive date for the Air Assault Badge.”
I could not cut and paste the URL of the source, so if you Google this, you can read where I obtain the source:
ABCMR Records of Proceedings (Cont) AR20040009573
And other citations I read from the Regulation stated “The Commander, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) may award the Air Assault Badge to any individual who has satisfactory completed the prescribed proficiency test and the standard Air Assault Course while assigned or attached to the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) SINCE 1 APRIL 1974.”
And you are right about the 3-5 year statue of limitations on appealing.
I personally don’t know JRM, but have seen pictures of him wearing the Bullwinkle Badge on civilian attire as well as his Scottish Clan attire (and he is wearing his military awards on those attire).
I don’t think he will respond to my questions or concerns, so hopefully, he will rethink what he is doing and do the right thing in honor of being a Veteran of the United States Army.
Thank you again for your professionalism and honesty…a breath of fresh air.
Merry Christmas!
Retired Army, here’s a little insight into JRM’s service with the 101st.
When he DEROSed from RVN in Feb 72 (as I also did), his time with the 101st ended then. He went to Fort Hood as his next duty assignment. I, on the other hand, was retained as part of the 101st until I PCSed from Campbell to Benning and then on to Germany for my first tour over there.
Yep, he was down at lovely old Hood when the school first started up in early 1974.
Claw, thank you.
Am concerned that JRM has been posting on TAH questioning others that either embellished their military career….or did not serve at all.
Which may give troublemakers on TAH ammo to use against TAH…
JRM served our country during the same time period you did (I did not serve during Vietnam). It just has been disenchanting for me to read his comments on TAH as well as his Website..
As I shared, I personally do not know him and don’t know the reasons behind his actions.
I just hope he does the right thing.
Thank you again, Claw. Merry Christmas.
I don’t know who or what you are talking about.
Sorry, Jonn..
Have been questioning John Robert Mallernee’s, a frequent visitor to TAH on his claim of being awarded and wearing the Air Assault Badge.
The troublemakers are those who have created problems for you and others because of their embellishments…or lies…all which you have handled well.
If I am stepping out of my lane, I am truly sorry and will not post anymore.
No, I just didn’t know what the discussion was about and if I needed to correct something I’d written, my mistake. Carry on.
Yes, Sir! (You’re not going to chew me out for calling you, Sir…still have PTSD from Basic Traing Days…:)
Part of his reasoning, I think, is because he just can’t get enough shiny badges to wear. That’s why JRM is falling in line with those rocket surgeons who now want to have the Combat Action Badge made retroactive back to cover RVN service as well as making it retroactive all the way back to 7 Dec 1941.
A small glimpse inside his thoughts on badges can be gathered from his comment he posted at 3:49 PM on the 28 Jun 2015 posting about PVT Kyle M. Swain who died from heatstroke while undergoing the Air Assault Course on Fort Campbell.
His comment contained no mention of condolences or sympathy to the young soldier’s family, or an expression of his own feelings toward the death of the soldier. His only thought was to ask if the family was going to be awarded a posthumous Air Assault Badge.
YMMV in regards to medals, ribbons and shiny badges, but some people can just never get enough of them to satisfy their ego.
Thanks, Claw for the explanation.
Suspected that, but was hesitant to write what you wrote.
I know this thread is getting long, but still hope that JRM is reading this and perhaps reflect on what he writes on TAH and his Website. Perhaps he lacks insight as well as empathy for others.
So sad to read that he was more focused on the Soldier’s Family being awarded the Bullwinkle Badge instead of thinking of the family.
Hope he has the courage as a Veteran and a Christian to do the right thing.
Thank you for serving our country, Claw.
Right back at you, Sir.
Thank you for your service and a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
I gather we must wait and see if our discussions will have any impact on JRM.
Thanks for the link, I didn’t know you could do a search on that sight. Unfortunately, since I have to pick up my family at the airport, it will have to wait for another day.
Merry Christmas to you and yours also.
No response from John Robert Mallernee, so just as the song goes, I will “Let It Go”.
In closing, this is for you, JRM: