Iknoor Singh wins suit against Army grooming standards
Iknoor Singh, a Sikh ROTC student has successfully sued the Army so that he can continue to wear his turban and remain unshaven when he enters the service according to the Long Island Press;
Iknoor Singh, a sophomore, sued the U.S. Army last year for racial discrimination after the military agency refused his admittance into Hofstra’s Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program and later denied a religious accommodation request. The Army had previously notified him that he would not be allowed to enlist until he complied with their grooming and uniform policies. Singh’s attorneys argued that forcing the student to cut his hair, shave his beard and forgo his turban violated the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA).
The federal court agreed.
“Given the tens of thousands of exceptions the Army has already made to its grooming and uniform policies, its successful accommodation of observant Sikhs in the past, and the fact that, at this time, [Singh] is seeking only to enroll in the ROTC program, the Army’s refusal to permit him to do so while adhering to his faith cannot survive the strict scrutiny that RFRA demands,” U.S. District Court Judge Amy Berman Jackson wrote in the court’s decision.
I have nothing against Sikhs, they have a proud and courageous warrior tradition, but I think the first time that young Iknoor Singh experiences the gas chamber, he might question his victory when he can’t get a good seal on his mask.
Yeah, I know it was popular during this war for unconventional troopers to grow beards to blend in with their environment, but there is a reason that most of us prefer to be reasonably clean shaven – that being personal hygiene. I grew one for the first time a few years ago until I got tired of smelling my last meal all of the time.
The court cited the Army’s own internal examination of the effect one such soldier’s religious accommodation had on his service and found that it “did not have a significant impact on unit morale, cohesion, good order and discipline.”
Four service members identified in the court’s decision had received an accommodation permitting them to serve despite maintaining beards and [unshorn] hair covered by turbans, the court found.
OK, fine. It’s not a big deal, well, until it is. Personal hygiene is different in the office than personal hygiene in the field. I’m just not sure that I like the courts telling the military how to conduct their business. Yeah, that’s probably my biggest gripe about this.
Category: Army News
Practical question: how does he qualify on his weapon? An ACH ain’t gonna fit securely and safely over a turban…maybe he takes the turban off when they’re in the field, and ties back his hair the way females do?
Political correctness, man.
This turd is lowering Army standards and he ain’t going to see any combat to begin with.
I’m jewish and everyone in my family have facial hair, but I always understood the Israeli standard, if you want to join the infantry and be a member of the pack, you have embrace the pack and cut your individuality off.
I really hate political correctness.
I like the way you think
Clearly, you did not serve in the infantry in Israel; as I did for an entire decade (regular and reserve). You can see my comments further below. Many of us in the infantry were bearded; mostly on religious waivers. I think about half of my initial training company (the first 5 1/2 months of service) was bearded. And as I noted, once in the reserves grooming standards were quite relaxed. This was still largely true in IDF field units; as I know from young soldiers of the present generation. You are misinformed.
Interestingly, just today the news is reporting that the IDF is going to get more strict about applying uniform grooming standards in the regular army; but the religious waivers will still exist and be widely used. They will just be more carefully applied. You will still see many beards in ground combat units of all sorts, including infantry.
Again, you are misinformed and misleading others.
Huh.
So let me get this straight. he volunteered.
Lots of money, time, and resources will be poited towards his training.
And he has the audacity to claim discrimination? Didn’t he volunteer?
Furthermore he’s a sophmore still a full two years away from commissioning. A lot can happen between now and then, and he still has his Advance Camp training to attend. Still lots of chances to wash out.
OH OH OH. I can’t wait to hear if he is selected for Airborne for summer training. that will go over well.
we need to circle this guy and see if he graduates.
I, too, have nothing but respect for The Sikhs…
Sadly this is simply part the larger pattern we’ve seen recently.
Jonn mentioned hygiene, but I gotta wonder about wearing a helmet?
In the British army, Sikh soldiers have successfully litigated to win the right to not have to wear a helmet. In the Indian army, they wear donut-shaped helmets like Luke Skywalker wore on Endor in “Return of the Jedi.”
Grooming standards aren’t for looks as much as hygiene. I can understand a relaxed grooming standard for the beard ONLY if he is in a non-combat and non-combat support position. His hair length should be held to an alternate standard of being off the collar when loose. In other words, he shouldn’t have woman-long hair.
The turban idea is one I have heard before and have seen in a uniform environment. That’s the argument I don’t understand as I have read some of the relaxed standards regarding religious headgear. I have seen ACU-colored turbans with the appropriate area for rank insignia. Additionally, I have seen soldiers wearing a solid-colored turban in their Class A uniform. However, in combat, you have to wear the same headgear as everyone else.
My religion-specific headgear is a Spartan helmet crested with horsehair. I worship Eris, the goddess of chaos and discord, the sister of Ares, god of war. Pfffft!
I generally wear a jock strap and carry a “Phildo”.
This is satire folks…….sorta…..
on your head?
I hear paganism is on the rise.
Buy the way, you do know Spartans were a bunch of fags that dressed their women like man on their wedding night, right?
I believe that also may happen in the unionized, gay-loving Dutch army.
It’s nice to be first in line to have a say on this blog.
Now I’ve heard everthing, How in the hell do you think he’d look like after he had his ID picture taken, and some time down the line he was put in a LINE UP, and someone was asked to pick a certain person out of the line up?????????. I say put his ass in the barber’s chair and give him a good GI. then send him on his way.
Sam
Glad to see that military service has now become a right.
(Sorry. I may have reported your comment by accident.) I hesitate to applaud his willingness to serve because it seems to me he only made the army weaker by all this.
We have to start letting blind people into the Infantry now.
After all, it is a right!
AR-670-1.
Meh!!
Who needs it.
Remember that slippery slope that we have been warning about for years? Well, here’s the outcome. Chaplains are getting drummed out for invoking their God, yet we are forcing the military to make religious exceptions? Yeah, standards are only standards in word, not deed. Tell me, again, how the military won’t loosen the standards for women in infantry or Ranger training?
Just wait until Hildebeest becomes President.
Camo pantsuits!
Exactly. It’s called the slippery slope for damn good reason: once one starts down it, there’s no stopping the slide. Now, there just has to be a religion whose rites include tattooing….
Sigh. We used to be an elite group of people with standards…and every fucking time I turn around, there is a new tolerance if you can call it that being shoved down the throats of the troops.
The gay people, the chaplains, the Rangers. When will it stop? Oh. My bad. It won’t.
It will stop when the war hits our soil
Really? What would you call 9/11?
Correct. It will not stop. If the ultimate standard is whether a troop can do his, her, or its job, whatever that job may be, then the good order and discipline argument gets holes punched in it. Eventually, uniformity in toatal appearance will be job determined, I guess. Why does a stateside pencil pusher, for instance, have to wear a uniform at all? So that he, she, or it will not be deemed a spy if capatured on I-95?
My reply was to DefendUSA.
He doesn’t need to wear an ACH, with the reevaluated standards for women, our enemies will use the softer bullets to keep everything fair. Surely they won’t mind banning head shots or ensuring their bombs don’t cause head trauma
The good of the one outweighs the good of the many.
I have kind of less of a problem with this one than most of these. There’s some prejudice on my part, I suppose. Mostly when we hear these stories, it’s the military bending over for some kind of hippy new age bullcrap, but a guy named Singh wanting an expanded no-shave chit easily seems as legit as those, if not more.
If there were any Vikings left, I’d be for them keeping their headgear too.
ODIN BE PRAISED, where do i enlist?
“Given the tens of thousands of exceptions the Army has already made to its grooming and uniform policies, . . . ”
THERE is the start of the Slippery Slope! The barn door has already been opened, the horses have escaped, and NOW Uncle Sam Ain’t Released Me Yet wants to close the door?
Hopefully Mr Sikh will come to no permanent harm during his training (gas chamber, field hygiene), but still, he knew what the standards were (should-have-been) when he joined.
Bad on both their parts.
“Uncle Sam Ain’t Released Me Yet”, look at it in reverse and it says “Yes, My Retarded Ass Signed Up”, I love the look in Junior Ossifers’ eyes when I throw that at them!
Tens of thousands OR 4 exceptions? This ain’t no temporary shaving profile.
Of course, I think it was the Air Force that a while back was considering allowing blind people to join, so what do I know…
I also have nothing against the proud heritage of Sikh warriors. Be careful what you fight for bud, you just might get it. Gonna look kinda funny fitting him for a helmet though. What came to my mind first was taking that peak up, from your cover with incoming. Who do ya think will be the first, best sighting point for the enemy? So, you won Mr. Singh, or maybe…not.
Before he even gets in the military, he has shown that he thinks about himself first, to the exclusion of all others. How is that going to translate in his life in the military? How about on a battlefield?
We’re gonna pay a small platoon of staff officers, senior SNCOs and policy-level GSers to do a couple yrs of analysis and shit a recommendation over to the Uniform Board. They’ll get paid to do their thing, and in the end, Vanguard/Creighton/Flying Cross and AAFES will be the big winners. I hear a big “CHA-CHINGGGG” over at the Exchange.
AAFES – Army Air force Extortion Service, that’s what we called in in pre-mob training and in the litterbox!
AKA A-Thieves
What’s next, will fleabag hippies be allowed to keep their hair if they enlist and wear patchouli oil instead of bathing? AAAAWWW, SHIT!!
Scorpion-pattern man-jammies for the Afghan recruits.
Yeah, but they’d very likely refuse those in favor of unicorn and care bear jammies they could sport on “Man-love Thursday”!
Here’s this ROTC guy’s explanation, courtesy of—you guessed it—the ACLU. https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/army-making-me-choose-between-my-faith-and-my-country
Now, if you read the brief article, you will see that the Army was forcing him to choose between his religion and his country, at least as he saw it. By retaining his religious practices, he was also advancing the distinction many people fail to make between Sikhs and Muslims. Unfortunately, there are a couple of things wrong with his reasoning. First, the kesh, or long hair of Sikh men, is only one of the 5 K’s. Three others that are to be observed by baptized Sikhs are special underwear called kacherra, a kara, or bracelet, and a kirpan, which is a dagger. So, I guess the school he attends has no problem with his carrying a knife. After all, if it did, he would be forced to choose between his education and his religion. Or does he not carry the kirpan? And I’m sure that, unlike in my Army days, he will be allowed to wear his special under pants and wear the kara. Or is something else afoot here? It’s not all about hair, and it’s not all about the turban. In fact, the turban isn’t one of the 5 K’s. Oh, and that turban? He says that it effectively will represent Sikhs, as distinguished from Muslims. How? Maybe he’ll also wear a sandwich sign saying, “Not Muslim. I am Sikh!”
Damnit! Hit ‘Report’ by mistake.
Any way that button can be moved to the other side of the window, away from the ‘Reply’ button?
They make special kirpans which aren’t actually sharp for carriage in weapon disarmament zones.
Yeah not really a big deal until it becomes a big deal, in OH Canada they have them in the RCMP/Canadian Armed Forces, and they guys I knew in the Astan were all cool with them, The Brits have them as well and not a real problem, the only one is not a good seal with The M40 Field Protective mask, but this kid is not going to be a grunt anyway so wtf, as for the smell of him not washing his hair enough that will be up to his buddies to enforce that blanket party.
Most of the sikhs end up either in medical field or in Special Forces.
I apologize in advance for stepping out of my lane, I am not a veteran of the US armed forces.
I did serve from Aug. 80 to Feb. 89 as a light infantry soldier in different roles in the IDF. I had a beard the entire time. We lived almost entirely in the field. Even ‘on base’ for short periods, we were in large tents. Cold running water in outdoor troughs, and latrines (not flush toilets). We did get showers on base, but those usually ran out of hot water before the group was half-way through. (I hear it is a lot more civilized now.) Of course, we got to visit home briefly every six or eight weeks (sometimes more), so we had that.
Hygiene did get a little challenging, so I ended up keeping my beard close-cropped; but I never shaved it completely off. My hair was close cropped, so that wasn’t an issue. With the short beard, I did not find I had any major problems. As for the gas mask, I had a bigger problem getting my eyeglass inserts to work well, than I did getting what seemed to be an effective seal.
Once we were reservists, guys started showing up unshaven and with longer (not really long) hair. We were still the same combat soldiers, and still did our jobs and fought as always. (In fact, I saw much more time and action in Indian Country as a reservist.)
I don’t know exactly what the Sikh’s requirements are regarding length of beard, and I don’t know how he’ll handle his hair. As noted, British Commonwealth countries have them fighting and they seem to do okay.
How do you were a helmet with that stuff on your head? Or does one get a religious profile for no helmet and no gas mask? If someone has a no helmet profile does it make them permanently non-deployable?
Know what I would like to see? Obama address the nation from the Ovoid Orifice while wearing cutoffs and a halter top. Shocking? Well, it would be funny, that’s for sure. I might actually watch him for a few more seconds than it takes me to change the channel, for once. Or how about Congress all dressed up in coveralls, bibs, bathing suits (Yeah, I know. My stomach, too.) and Bermudas? How about the Supreme Court justices on the bench in jeans and tees, sans robes? Why not? If there’s a dress code, repeal it—or disobey it. Why do these folks wear suits and ties? Why are they so neatly groomed? Are they any worse as gov’t officials due to their rather uniform attire and appearance? I mean, really. Why do they dress as they ALL do? Could it be to project a certain image, one that bespeaks business and professionalism, if not a certain uniformity?
He sure does have fabulously white teeth!
Which brings up a more general question regarding teeths, toothes, pearlies. Why do some of the poorest people on the planet who have no access to fluoridated water, Crest, or dentists have the most beautiful teeth and the teeth of much of England’s white population look like pond pebbles?
Because they …
Never mind!
Simple, lack of refines sugar.
This was the right decision.
Okay, you agree with it. We’ll see if it will be appealed. What of the other Sikh Ks? Should he also be permitted to wear a bracelet and keep a dagger? How about rejecting Army underwear in favor of the prescribed kacherra? Where is your line drawn? No cheating, now. You may not hold off until another court decides those matters.
If you’re worried about military people “keep(ing) a dagger”, you have the wrong focus. Military people SHOULD be armed. A religion that REQUIRES it would seem tailor-made for military service.
“Rejecting Army underwear”? Ummm… did I miss something indicating that was a problem? I only wore ‘issue’ underwear when I was in Basic (USAF). After that, I wore what I wanted, as long as it wasn’t visible.
All branches of the military have an ‘exception to uniform’ process, used without much fanfare for, literally, centuries.
Why is it suddenly objectionable now?
REALLY, o booger-eating bedwetting little thumbsucking candyassed Care Bear-kissing, unicorn-lusting glittery gargoyle gonad-gazing little ass-sniffing ringworm fungus on an inbred buck-toothed Swamp Donkey’s ass end? Maybe you need to quit sneaking “Dutch Rudder Gang Cocktails” when you think your Mommy isn’t looking, o little Smurf-crotch-sniffing Obamacare ad-boy clone! FUCK YOU and your opinion up the ass sideways with a ton of diarrhea-soaked broken glass and a thousand dead porcupines wrapped in asbestos. I won’t tell your Mommy on you this time, thus she’ll think you’ve been a good boy today, and she’ll give you something you enjoy, a nice warm emema before your bedtime! And LAY OFF of those Dutch Rudder Gang Cocktails, you may think they’re cheap and cool to drink, but they’ll give you even worse brain damage than you already have from the Kool-Aid you gorge yourself on!
You’re a meaner. You probably scared him off now.
AIN’T I A DICKWEED? 😀
Yes, and you are also an idiot.
There are many effective armies in the world right now that allow beards. The U.S. Army allowed them throughout much of our history. My Scout platoon did not shave om missions because of the extra weight of shaving gear and water conservation.
Essentially, your arguments are based in racism and ignorance. Your image of a soldier is a person just like you, and your little mind can’t grasp the thought of something different. Instead of a cogent argument, you string together a bunch of middle school insults (I’m being generous) and giggle yourself to sleep.
By the way, LDS Troops currently wear religious garments, as do certain Orthodox Jews and many troops of other faiths and traditions.
I unloaded on Larsie-poo the candyass because he’s little more than a booger-eating thumbsucking troll. I’ve done my fair share of Combat Missions in the Middle East as well, and as I see it, when one volunteers for Military Service they volunteer to hold themselves to AR 670-1. Not shaving while on scout missions in the ME is one thing as well as when one is I. A Spec Ops unit, but when one joins the Regular Army, they need to conform to the standard. Larsie-boy didn’t need to give his opinion because I and most others here don’t give two hoots of a moldy ratshit about what he thinks.
I hear that the Peace Corps is still hiring. Perhaps all of these “everybody gets a trophy” types would be better suited for that line of work.
*AAAAAAWWW!*, me a “RACIST”? Fuckin’ a, and THANKS, I wear that title with pride!
Does anybody what race AR-670/A Proud Infidel are racist about?? I never thought a beard was a race. Lars can you help us out on this.
When we are talking about bigotry associated with cultural and religious norms of areas of the region that are predominantly not caucasian it is often difficult to parse how much the person being the bigot is doing so out of racist motives and how much is just religious bigotry.
I “A Proud Infidel” is absolutely and “proudly” a religious bigot (I am a little bit of one myself but far less proud of it).
I am not sure he is a racist. He probably is. He certainly is an ignorant dispshit and there is a strong statistical correlation between “proud” ignorance and racism.
I thought only whites could be racist. Everyone else is “proud”.
I know you are being sarcastic but there are people that try to legitimate claim that only “whites” can be racist.
It is completely ridiculous. Racism is so damn tied to the human experience it almost seems to be instinctual.
Since the “reply” button has disappeared, I’m replying to Lars here.
That little bump that you just felt was the Earth’s rotation stopping for just a split-second. I agreed with you.
Anytime some dipshitheaded numbnutted ass fungus-brained fart muffin calls me a “racist” I wear it with pride, I see it as a sure sign I won the debate! That, and I have no tolerance for candyassed little Sparkle Ponies that think they know it all and try to tell others how to think.
“there is a strong statistical correlation between “proud” ignorance and racism.”
Yeah, pardon me Lars if I don’t consider you my “go to guy” for statistics.
So, in other words . . . you admit that you can’t really decide if you think whether the statements you find objectionable by PI are due to ethnic bias, cultural differences, racial prejudice, a dislike for beards – or simply the desire that uniform standards be applied, well, uniformly.
But you also state that the person with whom you disagree in this case – PI – is “absolutely” a “religious bigot”.
Pardon me for not taking any of your drivel here seriously. As is often the case you don’t seem to know exactly what you think. Plus, your statement here is somewhat self-contradictory – again, as is often the case.
How about you come back when you’ve decided which you believe it is, Lars?
UH-OH Hondo, I think you made him run to his “special place” to go hug his favorite Care Bear while he contemplates his next “brilliant response”.
I like going to horse races and stock car races myself.
Ditto, I also like going to tractor pulls and demolition derbies, SCREW the PC tofu-headed treehuggers!
Fuck me, hit the wrong button again. Whoever made the coffee today needs to be crucified.
Back on track, did you have anything actually relavent to say?
Dammit! Somebody forgot to flush again…
We missed you Lars, welcome to the machine.
I just wish I could be the CS Chamber NCOIC. He’d be combing snot out of that beard for a month.
I say we branch him Chemical Corps and during his OBC (if that’s what they still call it), let him spend some time in the live agent chamber (do they still do that?) with his beard.
I agree with the comments above about the Sikh warriors – however, I doubt this kid is cut from the same bolt of cloth.
There is a martial tradition in the Sikh community. It goes back hundreds of years. The reasons the Muslim invasions failed were the Sikh Warriors. If he wants to serve and Honor his Country and his Religion I say it is good for America…..even if he has a snotty nose due to a bad seal…
All right. I’m coming out of the closet. I identify as being a pacifist, studly guy with a HUGE dong…so huge that black guys are in awe.
If any of you ass holes diss me, I’m hiring a prominent, beloved, attorney from Oregon/California/Florida/et al to fuck with you.
VR (as the Navy guys say) FU (as the Army guys say)
SJ
Have you killed anyone lately, Cobra Bubbles? You are SO cute when you’re spouting off, sj!
🙂 Non threatening, affectionate hugs PH2 from someone in your basic year group. But of course, you look many decades younger I’m guessing. I’ve been ridden too hard and put away wet too many times. And, I had to Google Cobra Bubbles. Not sure I still understand.
Up until the early 80s this wasn’t an issue. In the 240 years of the Army the grooming standards have changed and I imagine they will change again. If Sikhs want to serve then yeah sure. If someone wants to have hair and a beard sure, that shit better look good and not scraggly as hell. Hell I’ve been out for years and I keep my hair short just because it is easy.
Reminder to self…do Not EVER get on the bad side of A Proud Infidel. This guy has it right! Piss em’ ALL off! Start with the jugular and work down from there! Being totally absent of his charm and wit, all I can consider is the fact that closely shaven faces and heads in combat do not stand out as a leader, the first to be targeted. Really, what’s next! Rastafarians demanding the long locks, Amish and their bi-weekly baths, the gay crowd demanding the right to bring a purse to battle along with earrings in both ears, and fresh jars of Vaseline weekly?!! Of course their recognition will be the usual BFF which will then stand for Butt F___ing Friends! Not sufficient knowledge of the Sikh community or their fighting prowess to respond with intelligent conversation. But consider this, what would they say if some of us veterans were to volunteer our services and wear tie-dyed T shirts and bell bottoms? Would we waste time trying to sue them because they refused us on their behalf choosing a different battlefield uniform? The flowers in our hair would probably at least make them wonder. Better yet, at our age, would they care if we all showed up wearing Depends? This whole matter is just another example of Big Bro. being able to tell us what we should and must accept. To my final breath I will ALWAYS believe if a person did not serve in the ACTIVE military (other than severe family hardship, I.E., health of a draftee or needed at home to support a family with deceased bread winner)then You SHOULD NOT be allowed to run for political office. Either serve your country or serve your own damned Beannie Weenie and mountain oysters!
I’d like to see an Amish War-Wagon actually…
What goes “Clip,clop, clip, clop, *BANG*, *BANG*,. clop, clop,,,”?
An Amish drive-by shooting!
Sweet…
Careful there API, your religious bigotry is showing. You bad man. Very bad.
I did an exercise in 1990 with the 19th SF group in Alaska. We provided security for their ISOFACs. There was a Sikh SF guy on one of the teams that wore a turban with the SF flash on it in garrison. I don’t know what he wore in the field.
Oh he had a beard too. Forgot to mention that.
Admittedly as a career REMF, from my viewpoint I would a lot rather have a dedicated, committed bad MF Sikh who doesn’t hit all the grooming standards net to me than some terminally confused sparkle pony who can’t even figure out what gender he/she/it wants to be.
So how does this work exactly? A rule which applies to everyone without regard to anything other than having volunteered to follow the rules becomes discriminatory in the small minds of some individuals. That is just silly.
Despite my long experience with flexible grooming standards in the IDF, the news reports just today that the IDF is going to tighten up the enforcement of grooming standards. Religious waivers for beards will still exist and be widely used; but the initial granting of the waivers will be a bit more strict or by-the-book. The only reason given in the news was uniformity, not hygiene.