Stolen Valor; don’t try this at home
A couple of folks sent us this link to the PennLive article about an incident in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania recently where a police officer, Detective John O’Connor, confronted Marine veteran Robert D Ford, over what some folks thought was a case of Stolen Valor, but it turned out to be a case of wearing a uniform that was out of date;
An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.
Ford’s hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier’s assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.
The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.
“He’s not a real Marine!” the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. “Stolen valor!”
“I was humiliated,” said Ford, of Marysville.
It turns out that Mister Ford had indeed served in the Marines from 1958 to 1064 1964. We’ve made a mistake or two in this business, but never over a wrinkled cover, or the wrong belt buckle. The problem, of course, is similar to the same reasons that we have with the explosion of Stolen Valor cases. The videos that have gone viral and get featured in the national news makes it attractive for amateurs to engage in the very serious business.
Folks here at TAH recognize what a serious business this is – many times our exposures of phonies cost them their jobs, their reputations and some of them end up in jail. But as our friend Doug Sterner says often, even one mistake is one too many.
“I’d rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don’t deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran,” [Doug Sterner] said. “Even if I see something totally outlandish, I’m not going to jump. … You don’t just go up and confront people.”
Another problem is this very same situation – many phonies will see this as an opportunity to talk themselves out of trouble.
The money quote from Mister Ford to the officer;
“What am I trying to do?” Ford said. “Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?”
I’d rather track down the Richard Rahns and the Jason Scalettas than some guy pretending to be Lance Corporal.
Category: Stolen Valor Act
Let’s be careful out there
This is why I’ve been telling people to be careful ! ! !
It’s only a matter of time sooner then later and guess what Poofa here we go
Mebbys some of the younger “cadre” do not comprehend what you say; therefore:
Many thanks rgr! My last trip to Iraq, I had a platoon of awesome cable dawgs. They wouldn’t go to work if I didn’t give them that line!
Nice real nice ! ! ! !
“It turns out that Mister Ford had indeed served in the Marines from 1958 to 1064.”
Obviously that is one terminal Lance corporal if he was able to serve from 1958 all they way back to 1064. Or did you mean 1964? ;p
Oh, didn’t you know?
He was a rank rider with William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy. He simply retired before the Battle of Hastings.
Oh so he carried the lances? Got it.
In that era he rode with Patton, Turdbath, Chevy and even with Ballduster McSoulpatch !!!
I know, Turdbath told me and he would never lie !!!
Simple solution. Once you’re out, just don’t wear the uniform. I have not touched my uniform once since I retired in 2012…
Simple Solution. If you served honorable wear your uniform whenever you damn well please. Or don’t wear it if you don’t want. Or wear part of your cammies to go hunting. Hell, use your Metal Sgt rank as a tie pin.
Or possibly we don’t blame the Vet for acting like a free American and blame whoever is looking for his 15 minutes of fame by shouting “Stolen Valor”, which of course was muffled because he had his head up his ass that day.
Amen brother. This public shaming and calling out of supposed phonies is getting out of hand.
You knew it was bound to happen once real phonies were being shamed in public and videos/pics posted online. Now everyone wants to be THAT guy that spots the phony and gets the cyber pats on the back for being a ‘hero.’
I remember that older Marine in the airport wearing his dress uniform, his pictures were publicly posted online and his face drug through the mud, and what do you know, it turned out he actually did serve as a Marine. As far as I know the guy who publicly humiliated him never apologized.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t be wary of these phonies, but the way cowboys out there nowadays do it, not SAT at all.
I still wear my tan cargo belt. My holster clips onto it nicely.
I would wear my favorite US Army boxers, but I ran out of starch…
LCPL Ford plays the bugle at Memorial Day Services.
I heard that! I haven’t worn mine in over 16 years! Haven’t even dusted it off. I don’t even wear a U.S. Navy Veteran hat. Only thing that gives me away is my shaved head…keeps the lice away 😉 and that USS Toledo SSN 769 tattoo that’s a depiction of a cannon firing off a nuke surrounded by the letters and numbers.
MM3 (Submarine Unqualified) Friend S. Wilkins
Bingo – that last line. Perfect – it’s why I didn’t harp too much on the AZ guy. I think it’s like bigfoot now – “Finding BigLiars” is a game where folks want to be the person who bags a fraud. The focus has gone from doing the right thing to becoming famous as a hunter.
TAH doesn’t expose fraud to get cool points. TAH does this because it’s the right thing to do. Cool points happen as a result. Must happen in that order. That’s important nuance.
Agree that this was both unfortunate and unacceptable, but playing Devils Advocate, why was he wearing the uniform and was it authorized under the circumstances?
read the whole article
LCPL Ford plays the bugle at Memorial Day Services.
It was Memorial Day, and as long as you have an honorable discharge, it’s fine to wear the uniform then.
Got it, thanks.
Great line by the US Marine:
“What am I trying to do?” Ford said. “Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?”
I often come to you guys and other pages when I see something wrong. I want to ensure it is in fact wrong before going full tilt on somebody.
You guys are great at what you do as other pages as well. Mistakes will be made but 9 times out if ten you we are spot on. It’s that gut feeling always go with the gut feeling.
SAR
The instigator remains anonymous. That’s a shame. It seems only fair that the embarrassment visited upon this Marine should be transferred to the limp dick who ran to the police officer instead of privately talking with the Marine in the first place. He is referred to as a “soldier” but who checked him out? The article says that the police officer loudly declared that the Marine was a fake and then later says that Mr. Anonymous was also screaming and concluded that the Marine’s ID was fake. I think it’s curious and unfortunate that the “soldier” was not identified. He deserved to be.
One other thing. I would like to point out that arrests of citizens are frequently reported by the local press. In most cases, the reports appear in the police blotter but, sometimes, arrests make headlines. This may be tough to swallow, but some of these people are not only later found not guilty but are truly innocent. Their publicized arrests cause them and their families much embarrassment, especially since most folks assume that an arrest itself means the arrestee is guilty. So, where is is the follow-up by the press to report these not guilty verdicts? There aren’t any, except when the person is prominent or the case sensational.
Wrong. It is lawful and very appropriate to wear the uniform you were discharged in at parades, patriotic celebrations and other events such as funerals and the like.
I also believe, it is lawful to upgrade your uniform to current standards.
I wear my uniform frequently and appropriately.
That is all.
PS: The two confronters are morons and I feel bad for the ole’ Marine.
And I bet your wife thinks you look handsome as hell when in uniform! Good for you, MC!
I weighed in at a (skinny) and svelt 162 lb. in 1966 and now weigh 220………so I’d surely look like a buffoon in those old Class A’s of the 60’s. Hell, my waist line was probably 32″ back then and is now 38!! 🙂
My goal is to get back into my boot camp-issued dark blues and wear them on Veterans’ Day, in public, at a restaurant that caters to AD peeps. Then see what happens. IF they don’t know the history of the uniform, they should REALLY shutup.
I strongly prefer to be a Grey Woman. My goal is to be able to stand in the midst of any crowd and have not one soul remember me. To put on some outfit — of any kind — and turn a spotlight on myself is so foreign to my nature, I’m not sure I could do it if you paid me.
I have baited more than one overly aggressive avenger. People have a right to be full of shit….to a point.
It seems there are a growing number of people who want their 5 minutes to play Gunny Hartman on youtube. The ones that really piss me off are the “Special” Forces has beens or never were types that find slapping around some dweeb is a good idea.
I hate those encounters when I meet a real bad ass only to find out his slapper seems to be broken at the moment.
Ahh what do I know, I was in the Force before there was anything Special about it.
Some day soon one of those wannabes will slap around a dweeb with a handgun and end up deader than a doornail…
happens every day somewhere in the US…I was a witness to a murder myself…tough guy slapping a little dude around back in the late 70s…little dude wasn’t having it and pulled out a knife and stabbed the guy so fast you could hardly see his hands move, big tough guy dead before he hit the floor…little dude sent to prison for 40 years which means he’s probably out these days.
I’m always reminded of the godfather speech when I see these confrontational fools…
There are people in this world who go about demanding to be killed. You must have noticed them. They quarrel in gambling games. They jump out of their automobiles in a rage. They humiliate and bully people whose capabilities they do not know. These are people who wander through the world shouting, “kill me”. And there’s always someone ready to oblige to them.
Very well said and I love the ending. Glad Jonn posted the article, people doing things in this manner does not help our cause.
Watching a man die is not like the movies. I was once trapped a couple of hundred feet underground with a man that died. It took him 17 hours to die. Took better part of another day for me to get out. Spent most of that time pinned between rocks trying to get him out of there. He didn’t die in my arms, I knew he died when I could’t feel his breath on my face. What I had to do after he died to get out of there I doubt most people ever want to know.
Getting in a mans face does not end with what was right or wrong in the measure. This was an elderly man and I feel for him. Everyone walked away this time.
Wow, what a horrible experience.
As a health care professional I too have seen a lot of death and people dying.
Usually I have been able to give them morphine or Xanax or something to help them remain calm and lucid if they so choose.
But Dave, my heart goes out to you. What a horrible thing to have to witness.
If anyone caught the PTSD from anything, it would be you.
Take care.
I appreciate your empathy. Bill Coughlin was a good man. I learned long before that not to believe what news papers print. The 4 years of fighting a 2.5 million dollar law suite for wrongful death probably caused any PTSD if I have such a thing.
I was responsible for that mans death. I was in charge and sometimes the best you can do is not good enough. If you jump out of air planes, scuba dive in caves, go caving in general, climb rock, or drive boats that go 200mph, bad things could happen. I accepted that about myself a long time ago.
I wish that was the worst thing that ever happened to me, it is not. Shit happens my friend, I will forever fight the dying of the light.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=266&dat=19930605&id=INsrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Z2QFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1127,3294531&hl=en
Only Hollywood glamorizes death. Death certainly doesn’t glamorize itself! We are both fascinated and repelled by it, but unless you are one sick puppy, your first dead body will permanently cure you of any glamour you may have found in death.
But you do have people out there who have very dark fantasies, and killing is one of them. It has become extremely dangerous to approach a stranger and admonish them FOR ANY REASON. It is so bad now, that any prudent person will consider the idea that the encounter will end in an attempt at murder. Any less will leave you unprepared for what can easily turn into a violent encounter.
Think I’m exaggerating? A man recently killed his neighbor because the neighbor’s sprinkler was getting his driveway wet. Another man shot his neighbor dead in his driveway because his car stereo was turned up too loud. There was a mass shooting among family members at a party because of an argument over sports. The list goes on. We have turned into a very impatient, unfriendly, dangerous nation with no ability to deal with each other in a rational manner.
Seems to me that the Harrisburg PO should have known the insignia on the belt buckle was correct for THAT PERIOD, and told the Army guy it was a mistake.
I would love to have just a moment to ask the Army guy if he’s related to someone named Moerk.
Retirees actually have specified standards for wear of uniform (Army, anyway) which is basically “Only during ctivities of a general military nature” – parades, burials, ceremonies, etc. Veterans are pretty much on their own, but discretion and all that stuff should apply. That being said, who the heck would want to swap their Class A’s for the new ASU’s?
I’ll perhaps bust out a dude in an Army uniform if needed because I was Army. I know the regs, the patches and the hardware. I will not go after someone in a sister service because I know NOTHING about their uniforms.
My suggestion, is at least on the streets, stick to your own branch.
Yeah. That’s good advice. I would also add that one should talk with the suspected phony first and not go running to the gendarme like a sissygirl.
I call it the, “show me yours and I will show you mine” approach.
I am talking about identification card of course.
If card is not demonstrated that raises to reasonable suspicion. But not always, some Vets authorized to wear uniform may NOT have military or VA card.
All I got is a VFW card, 11th ACR and 14th FA Association cards.
It IS possible to leave the Army honorable after 24+ total years and not have an official Country Club membership card.
Allons!!
When did you serve with the 11th ACR?
84-85. I NBC’d up on the Airfield in Fulda. It was a sweet job since I was a prior Huey guy prior to going NBC. COL Driskal (sp) was RCO and Buddha Bodelson was our Squadron Commander.
Thanks for answering!
I was in 67-68 and boy do I wish we had something other than those 13-ton tracked coffins (M-113).
Although I must admit, it was better than humping a rucksack through the boonies.
Take care, nbcguy!
Find the Bastards, then pile on!
Welcome Home Trooper.
Allons!
Great point. I have very little knowledge with the Army uniform. Honestly with all the patches and hats and things hanging everywhere, I can’t tell if I am talking to a Pvt or a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Semper Fi.
Dave: Assume that we are all Generals-of-the-Army and all will be good in your world.
Regular Army 1987-2012. Got so damn many “thanks for participating” ribbons from NATO and the UN and every damn catbox in the Middle East that I look like a banana republic dictator. Not even sure what country I got some of them in.
LMFAO, back in the day we didnt even put on what we had. Just more inspection stuff to keep up with. Nobody seemed to give a shit back then.
It is like the whole special forces nonsense in the Corps these days. We would have laughed anyone out of the unit that used those words. We were special alright.
At one point I was in a unit called Second Field Artillery Group. Back then they put the unit you were with on the back of your field jacket. I walked around with a jacket that had “2nd FAG” on it. I shit you not. This was before the days of don’t ask don’t tell. It lead to some great fights.
Ahh the good old days when Marines were Marines and sheep were nervous.
Semper Fi.
I want the FOIA on the Cop!
Now that will be interesting to find out how much a Marine he was or is or thinks he is or was!
Having retired from the PD I can tell you that there’s no such thing as a FOIA for assholes like this cop.
Yep, dumbasses….call out an actual veteran like the dumbasses they are create a public mess and guess what, some legislator is going to look at that and decide he needs to take some corrective action.
I can only imagine what kind of legislation would come from someone trying to de-escalate public confrontations but I am certain it will only benefit the phonies ultimately…don’t think it can happen? Take a look at your local ordnances and see what kind of stupid shit your town council has passed to make life more pleasant in your community.
I can easily envision a scenario where publicly confronting someone in uniform becomes a misdemeanor disturbing the peace kind of ordnance so the public doesn’t have to be subjected to such spectacle and our honest veterans aren’t inadvertently harassed by imbeciles.
All because some idiot thought he needed to make some noise in a public space.
Thank you. Well said.
Well, VOV, I can just as easily envision a scene where someone who lacks knowledge sees what he thinks is a faker and tries this, when perhaps, like LCPL Ford here, is wearing what was correct for that time frame, is with friends, and stands there laughing at him. OF course, if anybody ever did this, I’d tell him to contact the CO at TAH and tell him Ex-PH2 sent him.
I have my dogtags from RTC(W) on my keychain. They have my blood type, my religious preference, my branch of service and my old service number. I keep them on my keychain because they indicate I am a vet and have some basic info about me.
I think clearly they indicate that I have antiquated service, meaning LONG before any smirking jerk was even a twinkle in his daddy’s eye.
Does PA have Stolen Valor acts on their books?
I see that some sites are now jumping all over this, pointing a finger and effectively using this as if it is representative of anything other than one guy’s (the alleged soldier) stupidity. Like I wrote above, no one seems to get their panties in a wad when the press reports arrests, which are legal accusations of criminality, and the named person is later acquitted or the charges dismissed. This was a stupid act by a stupid fellow, made worse by a cop who allowed himself to be unduly influenced by the stupid and caught it himself.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/06/05/the-problem-with-publicly-accusing-someone-of-stolen-valor-what-if-youre-wrong/
Doug Sterner has spoken:
“Sterner is seeing this type of thing happen more and more, he told The Washington Post — guys trying to bust phonies.
“There is a vigilante mentality right now in a lot of these veterans circles which is leading to — I just call it what it is,” Sterner said, before calling it bullying.”
This may sound a bit convoluted but here goes. First off, the old fellow I presume has the right to wear his own uniform if he chooses. Most of us do not seek recognition, especially by wearing our old uniform in public. These days that would make you a target for some crazy GEEHADITZ. Personally I would not attempt to wear my old uniform because I’d look more pregnant than the old timer does; too many pounds ago. Were a Marine in his presence wondering, he’d surely ask quietly “What unit were you with? What was your MOS? Even with bad memory from old age, this would have been a dead giveaway: What was your platoon number in boot camp___OR___ What was your drill instructor’s name?” No answer to either and I’d be a bit suspicious. Finally, consider this; if the detective was the guy in the white shirt, how far was he from the nearest Krispy Kreme? nbcguy54ACTUAL had it right from the get-go. Just because you wear a USDC (United States Donut Corps)uniform, you are out of your league questioning a Devil Dog, regardless of his age.
You know, in rereading all of this, I would REALLY like to know who the officious beyotch ‘soldier’ was who started this mess in the first place.
I think he should be invited to step up and admit that he was wrong. Otherwise, this may come back to haunt him. He might run into me some day…. 😉
You know, Ex-PH2,your post causes a person to rethink the gist of it. Having been in the “Green Machine”, I’d have never been able to spot a former Soldier’s uniform and realistically suspect anything was out of order. Even if I had been wearing all my medals, ribbons and donut stains.
My uniform is so small I wonder how I ever got into. Sure can’t wear it now.