CPT Sarah Cudd; Army Strong
I’ve been watching this video for the last few weeks and at first I thought maybe it was bogus, but I’ve been assured that it’s not. It’s a video of Captain Sarah Cudd finishing the 12-mile road march for her Expert Field Medical Badge test. It’s pretty painful to watch – especially from the perspective of the guy who ran the 3rd infantry Division’s Expert Infantry Badge testing for three years straight. I’ll admit that I get tired just driving twelve miles these days, but then it isn’t my job to be the physically magnificent specimen I was twenty years ago. If I was at the finish line when Captain Cudd crossed it, I would have figured that she hadn’t spent anytime training for the award she sought to earn.
Even in mechanized infantry units we had to make this trek quarterly – not including the EIB testing. She had her reflective belt on, so I don’t see what the problem was for her. Doesn’t it give you guys superpowers?
The media is all excited that she “refused to give up” – from an Army veterans’ perspective, she’d already given up when she didn’t bother to put in the requisite amount of training prior to the test.
If I remember correctly, we held our twelve mile march in the morning, meaning that after the march, the soldiers still had an entire day of multiple tasks to perform without error. Captain Cudd looks like she’s ready to spend the day in the medics’ tent snoozing.
Yeah, you can hate on me, but I’d say the exact same thing about a male EFMB candidate. It was only 12 miles, for Pete’s sake.
Category: Military issues
I can’t believe that is a Captain acting like that…
Well, she’s not a captain captain. She’s a vet–a real vet, with a small v: veterinarian. When she’s out, that will make her a Vet vet. With all of this attention being paid to her, I bet Moerk is seething.
Careful now. You don’t want E-8 Moerk to start pacing. You wouldn’t like her when she’s pacing. She’ll cc the Pentagon again and we’ll all be fucked.
Goddammit! Where are my fucking glasses? I gotta find that “report comment” button!
I this for this officer and any person who would struggle a timed ruck march is this;
1. How often does the unit perform ruck marches, how far, and are they timed? Because if the unit rarely conducts a unit foot march or not at all, that will play into it. Even if the Solider does it on their own time, they will be at a disadvantage because the field Soldiers will have the chance to train on and off duty days.
2. Did the Soldier seek out help in making carrying march easier like, better ways to pack and strap down the rucksack. Also making sure that the rucksack is balanced. Also it is easier to find that help when there is a unit foot march compared to finding the people on your own who have the time and willing to help.
3. Also what the command supportive or not.
She absolutely should have been physically prepared for the task, and if she wasn’t then I can’t defend her. However, from what I could see from the clock, she still had 13+ minutes left in which to finish, so she was running ahead of the standard (It read 2:46 and change, and you get 3 hours). So, it is possible that she was fit, got caught up in the excitement and didn’t pace herself correctly and burned herself out earlier in the march and that she wouldn’t have been exhausted if she had set a better pace.
Anyway, congratulations on the Captain for her achievement.
I used to piss everybody off when I came back from the mountain training camp and would take my squad to the confidence course and time them running it.
Or, I would outrun everybody in the morning PT run, eat breakfast and go run some more.
They hated me.
Oh well.
That’s why I was an instructor up there.
I’m with you, Jonn. It’s 12 miles for Christ sake. What she did is an average day for any light infantryman. Glad she completed it and all, but that video is hard to watch and kind of embarrassing.
She is a Vet..
“…she’d already given up when she didn’t bother to put in the requisite amount of training prior to the test…”
Bang on. While I give her props for not quitting, its not like she did not know the standards prior to the test. Nothing beats preparedness.
Congrats Capt…now pass the painful lessons you learned on to the next generation.
From her AKO:
Interests and Hobbies:
Running, Cycling, Exercise, Nutrition, Weightlifting, Fitness
Non-Interest: Muzzle Discipline
That was my first thought when she used the weapon to help her stand up. I looked and silently said, thank God there’s no mag in that rifle.
I bet that she’s maxing her APFT. And that’s all I have to say about that.
Okay, I’m not going to defend her. If she was so burnt by a 12-mile walk with a loaded backpack – because really, that’s all it is – that she couldn’t stay on her feet, she did not properly train for that test.
I consider this a challenge, so I will meet it head-on.
One of you knuckledraggers send me a total list of the contents and the weight of that backpack. If it’s field medical, please don’t try to convince me that she’s dragging 40 pounds of ammo in it. I will not believe you.
I’ll start this summer and keep it up all through next winter, and I’ll get someone to officially confirm it. If I fall down and go boom, I’ll make sure I wear kneepads just like I did when I was skating.
12 miles in 3 hours? I walk faster than that with my camera and it’s no lighweight point-and-shoot.
http://www.medtrng.net/efmb/sections/efmbpacking.htm
Looks like most of the weight is NBC protective gear. And the packing weight is ‘dry’. Water weight doesn’t count.
Would you like the list of the combat load my medics carried in Iraq?
It actually exceeds the EFMB required load by quite a bit….and the foot patrols generally exceeded 3 hours.
I would like that info, because it would be interesting to see the difference between the training load and the real-world load.
Equipment Common to Combat Medics: A. Worn on Body/Uniform: • M9 Pistol with 15 rounds of 9mm ( x 4 magazines) ball ammunition or M4 Carbine with PEQ-2 Laser/PAQ-4 Laser, ACOG/CCO, 5.56mm ball ammunition X 7 magazines ( 210 rounds) • Desert Camouflage Uniform with Infrared Tape on left sleeve (1”x1”). • Desert Combat Boots. • Dog Tags. • ID Card. • Undershirt. • Socks. • Tactical gloves. • Interceptor Body Armor with two Small Arms Protective Inserts. • Advanced Combat Helmet with night vision mounting plate. • Rigger belt. • Notebook and pen. • Watch. • Knee and elbow pads. • Sun, Sand, and Dust type Goggles or Wiley-X Goggles. • Folding Knife/Multi-tool. B. Worn on Fighting Load Carrier/Interceptor Body Armor: • MOLLE Fighting Load Carrier with modular MOLLE pouches. • 30 rounds of 9mm ammunition or 180 rounds of 5.56mm ball ammunition. • 64 ounces of water in two 1-quart canteens. • 100 ounces of water in a hydration bladder. • Casualty and witness cards. • Flex cuffs for personnel under custody. • Night vision equipment (PVS-14/PVS-7). • Iodine tablets. • Lensatic compass. • Flashlight. • Chemlight. • First Aid dressing and pouch. • Canteen Cup. • Earplugs. • M9 or commercial pistol holster. • Extra field dressings in MOLLE Pouches. • Extra intravenous fluids bags in MOLLE Pouches with extra starter kits. C. Carried in Assault Rucksack: • MOLLE Assault Rucksack or commercial assault rucksack, with MOLLE attachments. • 70 ounces of water in a second hydration bladder. • Two Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs). • Poncho and/or Bivy Sack. • Poncho liner. • Undershirt. • Spare batteries. • Two pair of socks. • Polypropylene or silk long sleeve undershirt. • M9 Pistol or M4/M16 Rifle Cleaning Kit. • Personal hygiene kit. • Rubber gloves. • Entrenching Tool. • Sling rope with two snap links. D. Carried in Main Rucksack: (Main rucksacks were rarely taken on operations during study) • MOLLE main rucksack with Sleeping Bag Carrier or Large ALICE rucksack. • Modular Sleeping Bag (one bag per two men). • Long Polypropylene Underwear of Fleece Jacket… Read more »
Thanks, Doc!
I will start with my own backpack and move to the larger ruckpack as I progress.
Gud GAWD. That looks like the stocking list for an entire trauma center! Do you know what the weight for that load was?
Sorry. Saw the weights at the bottom the second time I looked. Thanks, Doc!
Pinto, the line medics ( the medics outside the wire with the troops) are basically a walking trauma center…they don’t always have the luxury of being able to get a casualty evacuated to a higher level of care within that “golden hour” so they have to be able to sustain the patients for several hours if need be.
I’m not too shy about bragging on my medic’s; they were damn good at what they did, and I would trust them with the lives of my family.
I had the honor of working with an ER doc who was a combat medic in Vietnam. He was amazing, and I will never forget him. I look up to each and every one of you.
Morphine?
Good catch…usually 6-8 morphine auto injectors, and later in my last tour ( 06-08) we had the EZ Io drills for osteo sticks rather than the FAST1 sternal Io system.
I have surely missed much more, but the above list was a general “common” list and may deviate from other units basic load requirements..
Yeah-it won’t add a lot to the weight of the load, but the first time I was issued morphine was one of those “$hit just got real” moments.
I recall reading that muleskinners would get in trouble for loading their mules greater than 30% of the animal’s bodyweight.
Poor “light infantry” (and combat medics).
If memory serves Caesar’s legionaries called themselves “mules.” I expect for the same reason.
No micro catheters for bernasteys?
Doesn’t the Army use CBR equipment anymore?
Maybe they don’t even call it CBR (i.e., “Chemical, Biological, Radiological” warfare), which is what it was when I was in the Army.
So, shouldn’t each soldier have an M-17 Protective Mask, with hood, canteen drinking tube, and rubber gloves?
Shouldn’t the carrier include a mustard gas kit and three (03) atropine 2-PAM syrettes?
What about smoke canisters, CS canisters, and fragmentation grenades?
Wish we had some of that stuff in Nam. Could have saved a few more lives.
The weight is the primary factor in this case.
This should be fun. I’m an old lady. I am definitely going to do this.
PH2,
Keep us informed; I would really like to know how you do…Cheers!
Roger that. I keep a journal on everything. I’ll keep this one separately.
Here you go-http://www.medtrng.com/efmbpacking.htm
Question – does the EFMB uniform now include IBA?
It’s a fair question, but I don’t know. I haven’t done EFMB since 2001.
It doesn’t look like she’s wearing an IBA in the video.
Thanks. Didn’t have any desire to watch someone crawling in the road due to fatigue, so I didn’t bother to watch it.
If you do this, please keep us posted on it. We want to know how it goes for you!
12 Miles in 3 hours in full battle rattle with a loaded ruck is no joke. While not the worst road march I ever had to do (that honor goes to a 15 miler in basic at a forced march pace, which was an absolute motherfucker and made the 25 miler we later did look like a leisurely stroll) it certainly isn’t easy.
I was mechanized too, but unlike Jonn, my unit did not prioritize road marching and outside of sporadic extracurricular marching that I’d do with a buddy of mine, we’d only train for the twelve miler in the month before EIB.
I usually would come in at around 3:05 the first time we hit the trail. The second time would be dramatically better, usually 2:40-2:50.
I was in an airborne infantry unit, we did 12 milers for fun. when it came time for EIB, no one ever missed time short of injury, and even then it had better be a good one. To be that weak and falling over after a 12 mile ruck shows severe lack of preparation. She knew the date of that ruck well in advance and didn’t train.
PH2…
Where are you? I didn’t do it, but if you wanna, I’m game! I got the “proverbials” ready…#12miles #nosweat
Defend, let me get a start on this, then I’ll send me info to Jonn for you. I’ve been a desk jockey for too long. Not a healthy thing to do.
I’m a bit divided on this…..I earned my EFMB in Egypt while on an MFO rotation….Peace keeper range in South Sinai mid August was no fun for a 12 mile foot march.
kudos to her for earning it, but the manner in which she completed it was a bit off putting.
We know the standards going into this difficult test, and IMO is shows a lack of conditioning and or preparedness.
I’m not arguing about the other comments, but the 12 mile march was at the end of numerous other activities. So take that as you will.
Even at my age, 52, I can easily do a 12 mile hike within 3 hours. Not so sure I would be so successful after a day of other physically strenuous activities though.
That said, if I knew I had such a day coming up, that day wouldn’t have been the first time I attempted it.
It’s supposed to be a culmination exercise. But even at the end of the march, you are supposed to be able to do your job.
Or at least be able to take a second to catch your breath, change your socks, drink some water and then do your job.
I seriously doubt this ‘captain’ was able to pick up her own gear after that display.
I also have doubts about her gear. That’s one of the tightest packing jobs I’ve ever seen on a ruck. Even when she fell face down, the ruck didn’t smack her in the back of the head. I really doubt a veterinarian who struggled in such a great fashion was able to set up her gear in such a squared away manner.
I’ve seen all sorts of nonsense about this. But did any of the female participants in the Tough Ruck Concord get this kind of attention?
Tough Ruck Concord is the route taken by folks who want to ruck for the Boston Marathon since those assholes with the bombs caused a rule change that no longer allows folks with gear to follow the marathon route.
I’m pretty sure there’s female competitors at the various Tough Ruck events. I know I’ve seen pictures of females at the Bataan Memorial March.
Why is this falling down, making herself a casualty and a victim the picture of ‘good’ and ‘right’ all of a sudden?
She’s completely wrong. That’s not motivational. That’s not inspiring. That’s saying ‘you don’t need to prepare, you don’t need to exceed this, you just have to be able to barely make it’.
A leader would have been one of the first finished, then back out on the course providing motivation for folks who look like this.
Well, they have to be nice because if they aren’t, she’ll whine about how mean they were.
I would far rather hear what Sparks said: you little, p–ssy, you little shit stain, if you ain’t got it quit! because that would have me itching to flip the bird at onloookers.
I guess I’m just an old-fashioned girl.
Me, too, PH2. I would have begun calling cadence to motivate myself as I flipped them off…
Right on, Defend!
Powerfull Perseverance? Where’s that video of Chevyliar at the 6lb. 13oz. mark?
Goddamn You GDContractor
😀 Because you make me laugh harder than I should have, I’m going to make you cry…
(Not Safe For Lunch)
Didn’t look like that block was 7lbs to me, ChipNASA. (smile)
Damn you Chip! It was supposed to be a rhetorical question! I used to like tits…. You fight dirty! LOL. //scarred for life
All I get from this is a liberal media stroke job. If I had came to the end of my 12 milers like that, they would not have been cheering me on, (especially using my weapon as a prop up crutch and if you missed it, ending with it pointed at her own face!). No they were shouting at guys, “you little, p–ssy, you little shit stain, if you ain’t got it quit!” Yes, like Jonn said, I had morning marches and the rest of the day was guess what, more fucking training. In the field training not classrooms. If you are male or female and are not and have not prepared and keep yourself in shape to do this, you don’t need to be in this field or in light infantry or any of the other MOS’s requiring this march. Now she’ll be the female flagship of “See women can do it, sure they’re wasted for the rest of the day and crying about multiple feet blisters and have to go back to the barracks to you know, wind down the rest of the day but by gosh she finished.” She answered in the video to the question of, “What was going through your mind”, “I thought is was running. I stumbled over the finish line”. Sorry folks I’m again with Jonn you can hate me but I think this doesn’t really show me much. I don’t care of it’s the Combat Medical Badge (which is higher in precedence) or the Expert Field Medical Badge, when I am down and wounded in combat, I don’t want anyone who fucking “thinks” they’re “running to me” to help, I want a hard charger on their way. One who isn’t using their weapon as a crutch the last 100 meters and can then heft my sorry ass over their shoulder and get me to safety. Again, just not all that impressed with this story of glory.
Feet blisters? If you get blisters from marching or hiking, you aren’t wearing the right socks or right-sized boots.
Ex-PH2, yes you are correct. I wore two pair of socks for sweat and blisters. Didn’t have the type of boots they have today. But blisters happen.
FOOT POWDER is one’s best friend for preventing blisters, THE ONLY TIME I got blisters from a road march was when I didn’t use any, a pair of Women’s knee-high stockings do well at preventing friction on the feet, but I swear by foot powder, good socks, and changing socks as quickly as possible at the halfway point. 😀
Agreed on stockings and powder. I also kept scissors, moleskin, and a needle in my pocket. Worked wonders on existing blisters.
I actually liked the 12 milers. We would sort of run them in a shuffle. The endorphin high was awesome. And we worked the rest of the day doing some other form of manual labor. I had women in my unit and many would drop out or fail to make the time. It was common. The officers though, they made it.
I ETS’d from Drum 19 years ago, and out of the guard 15 years ago. Never in those eight years was I ever issued quality footwear or socks. We had crappy crew boots and wool socks that fell down into your boot. Blisters were common, but we rucked a lot and developed callouses which sometimes blistered. If you wanted good footwear you had to buy it, but none of us could afford it.
I hope the guys in these days have better footwear than we did. Also, while you are doing your ruck challenge, please do not neglect the effect of carrying a weapon. Ruins your arm motion and gets heavy. Pay attention to your back. Easy to blow it out if you aren’t in your twenties.
Preparation. She states that she trained for 10 days…that’s not preparation for something like this. She half-assed her training and we’re supposed to treat her like a hero.
Her kind of “preparation” is what gets Soldiers killed.
Hmm. Yeah, if I was going to do something highly physical I didn’t normally do on the job – like, maybe, hike 12 miles humping a ruck and carrying a weapon and other gear – I think I might want to train for that for a bit more than 10 days.
nbc, you’re right. Hell she should have done a trial 12 miler, with ruck, 10 days BEFORE the real deal, just to get her timing down.
OC
Her AKO file says fitness is a hobby with her.
Sorry, babe, but fitness is NOT a hobby and neither is weightlifting. You either do it so that you will live longer and have strong bones, or you don’t. It isn’t a hobby.
Geez, when I was skating, I used to spend a cumulative 6 hour day on the ice, partly in class, partly on practice ice and partly teaching. That was during the week, starting at 4:30AM, for 2.5 hours, then another 3.5 hours after work, until 10PM. Then on the weekends, I’d start at 5AM on practice ice for 2 hours, hit the classes my coach was giving, go teach my assigned classes (paid for practice ice) and then hit the free skate at my rink, then go to another rink and do the free skate, then back to my rink for another free skate. By the end of the day, I was either exhausted and starving or itching to get back, or both.
Fitness is NOT a hobby.
It’s a good thing she was only carrying a weapon, and not, say, a stretcher with a casualty on it.
Also, it’s a good thing the elevation at Ft. Stewart is a whopping 75 feet. Me thinks she MAY not have made the time cut-off if she was at Carson… or Bagram.
Or Korea when I was part of 2nd ID 92-93 when it was the CG’s order that EVERY unit in the Division did a minimum of one Company road march once a month. We also had our fair share of Platoon road marches to supplement that, plenty of suck!!
We are all being programmed by this video. This is what we are supposed to believe is a victory for women in the military. Toughness in the face of adversity! Yeah, that’s the ticket!!
Were there no women who finished this in the full, upright and locked position? Why are they not the ones we are seeing?
This is a supposed leader. If I was one of her troops, my confidence level would not be very high. But lets all get in a big circle and Kumbaya the hell out of this. For fucks sake!!!
I concur!
Yeah, that about covers it. I suppose she’ll be invited to the White House now.
Somebody had to take that authorized video. Somebody had to approve it for release. Oh, and be advised you AD people. Moerk is just hoping you say something negative about Captain Mighty Mouse here.
It’s the difference between exercise and work, and the media doesn’t know what that means. In most of the timed events they cover, the object of the exercise is winning the race — not demonstrating a basic skill that takes the participant to the start of the real job. The media doesn’t get that.
I’ve seen women easily make this ruck. The weights may have been different though. I forget what we carried, but it was heavy. No officer ever failed it, and never crawled around like that. Some of the EMs yes.
Well, at least she passed it, unlike Elizabeth Wax, the FDNY probie who never passed the NYC fire physical fitness test and was allowed to graduate.
They said her book work made up for inability to physically do the job. I hope a male sues the Fuck out of the city for discrimination.
Yeah, and she’ll forever be known as “The EO Quota”.
That’s why Friday not Wednesday was hump day in the Corps. 15 miles was normal. That MCCRRES 25 miler did suck though
When I was but a young Sergeant in 3/8 in the late 80’s, we did a MCCRRES hump out at Bridgeport (Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center for all my non jarhead friends out there). Included in that fun fest was night time cliff assaults by all of the Companies to include Weapons Company with all crew serves. Ah, the good ole days!!!
Looks like she’s just following the rule I learned in Basic and Infantry AIT:
If you drop you’re weapon in the dirt…
Get on down with it and start pushin’!
I wonder if she even had to clean her own weapon after it was all said and done, or did some unfortunate EM get “voluntold” for that task?
Judging the way that she put that rifle in her face when getting up, her 10 days of training must have been with my company, Archangel Group.
https://thetruthaboutsocnetlies.wordpress.com/2012/08/13/real-world-consequences-when-john-giduck-trains-police/
https://thetruthaboutsocnetlies.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/john-giduck-a-case-study-in-tactical-ineptitude-part-1/
I always have trouble with the weight duing these things – my own weight. I get winded cutting a steak.
sincerely
John “Faker 6” Giduck
Okay, Giduck, you should at least post a spew alert.
Winded cutting a steak? I thought you got winded cutting a fart!
I guess maybe she should issue a formal apology that she allowed a moment of weakness to be recorded on video? By competing for the EFMB, she is by definition in the medical side of the house. It was mentioned above that she is a vet. Could also be a nurse or doctor. If that’s the case, I can assure you that EFMB is not even remotely required for her advancement. Additionally, a vet is making a mere fraction of the the salary of their civilian counterparts for the privelage of wearing the uniform. We also know that, for better or worse; the daily life, work duties, physical requirements, and training of a medical officer are in stark contrast to those of young men on the line. So, she presumably undertook it as a personal challenge. I’m also an O-3, a physician, veteran of OEF, and graduate of Basic Airborne Course. I would struggle, if not outright fail, to complete the EFMB road if I had to ruck up this very moment. I suppose that makes me an inferior officer and physician by the metrics proffered on this forum. I would certainly need to train up for it. I trained for months for BAC, which holds standards that most young Soldiers could meet in their sleep. I make no apologies for that. It was a tremendous personal achievement to earn my Silver Wings, regardless of how “easy” it might be for the average young war fighter. EFMB has an incredibly high attrition rate, and the road march is the last event. As such, plenty of young men and women, including those from line units, failed out of this EFMB selection before they even had the chance to complete the road march. Were I to complete the EFMB road march in a similar fashion and were it to also make the rounds on the Internet, I have no doubt that a great number of detractors would voice tremendous criticism and disgust. But I also know that I would have no shortage of line medics and grunts alike that actually know me… Read more »
Forgive the fuck out of me for expecting a serving officer, no matter their MOS, to lead from the front. That is what I was brought up on in the Marine Corps, so that is what I expect to see. And I know for DAMN SURE that the Army is going to require similar effort from its officers. So once again forgive the fuck out of me if I find it unsettling to see a young officer who may deploy to a war zone at any time, barely able to physically function after a 12 mile hike.
I know standards are being lowered, just was not aware of how much. But good for you for taking up for her.
And one more thing, in the Marine Corps, we have leadership traits and principles. One of them is “Know yourself and seek self improvement”. You have admitted to having issues with certain physical aspects of your job. Might want to take that principle onboard and fix your issues before you embarrass yourself in front of your troops.
Kind of why I was an asshole to hump drops during MOB training a few years back.
I mentioned that it was a sad state when a 45 y/o 2 pack a day smoker was walking their 19 and 20 y/o asses into the dirt. Especially since we were only carrying light ‘assault packs’ and not full on rucks. “Looks like we’ll just have to keep doing this until all y’all can keep up….”
Well, Aaron, my impression of her, based on her saying that she ‘trained’ for 10 days prior to this test, is that she just doesn’t take it seriously and does not expect to have to carry that load in the field.
A 10-day timeframe is not sufficient to prep for any kind of test that is as strenuous as this one. I would expect her to have enough sense to realize that she needed to begin her training for the test several months ahead of the test date.
She did not prepare properly for it, and I can’t sympathise with her. I spent far too many years and months and hours training horses for competition and practicing my ass off in ice skating to have any sympathy for someone who was obviously ill-prepared for this.
For me at least, you kind of missed the point. The part I find frustrating is that this is being passed all over internet like she is some shining example of what a woman in uniform can do. I know several women who would have smoked this and laughed about it later. Yet the video isn’t showing the stud who killed it for 12 straight miles and came in at sub 2 hours, or anyone who crossed at 2:45 worn out but not looking like they are struggling for their last gasp of air. Good on this Cpt that she passed and it clearly took some intestinal fortitude at the end, but lets not pretend like she is the epitome of what women in uniform can aspire too.
You’re right. As far as how it’s being passed around, I hadn’t seen much of the rhetoric regarding the gender issue. I essentially saw the clip and moved on. I don’t watch much television so I haven’t seen how it’s handled in the media. I explain a little bit below in greater detail, but I don’t disagree with your observations. For me personally, those weren’t the first things that came to mind. Part of what caused me ass pain is that (presumably) the Soldier in question didn’t ask to be captured on video, didn’t ask to be posted on social media, and didn’t ask to be made a symbol for anything. She just volunteered to go compete at EFMB and get her shit. But I see your viewpoint and don’t disagree, it’s just personally not the first thing that sprang to my mind.
No, I didn’t miss the point.
She passed the test. Good. She was so burnt that she could barely stand up. If her rifle had been loaded, she could have blown her head off using it as a prop.
The point of the article was that this was being passed around like a plateful of chocolate chip cookies at a county fair – ‘look what our gal did!’ – with no reference to the test itself and whether or not there were any other women in it. If there were, they were ignored by the media.
I’m glad she passed this test, but I remain firm that her prep for it was almost nonexistent. She should have known better.
If she had failed the test, the howls about dropping the standards would being flying through the air right now.
THAT is the point.
Ex-PH2,
Sorry, I replied to you instead of Aaron. I completely agree with your assessment as well.
I don’t disagree. If anyone doesn’t properly train or prepare themselves for anything, then they have only themself to blame. The EFMB is typically conducted over roughly ten days and the event is considered “training.” Which makes me wonder if something was lost in translation/transcription, and she was actually referring to the ten days over which the EFMB was conducted. In any case, you’re absolutely right; if she trained only ten days for the event would be a colossal mistake. She certainly finished in a manner that indicates she was wholly underprepared for the event.
“Were I to complete the EFMB road march in a similar fashion and were it to also make the rounds on the Internet….” Hold on thar, Bobalouie! Your Cudd-like, weapon-dropping, head-down, ass-dragging crawl, replete with uniformed cheerleaders, would never rate a mention. Yours would have been a fail and that’s it. Why? It couldn’t be marketed as a victory for women as Cudd’s has been.
Haha, you make a valid point. There is a clear double standard, and I recognize that double standard is what yields a lot of resentment regarding this story. And rightfully so. I also feel that the double standard perpetuated by the media and “the powers that be” is unjust, manipulative, and detrimental to the organization as a whole. An organization whose primary function is to fight and kill bad guys. Period. No argument from me.
For me personally, this story didn’t immediately bring up those feelings. Probably because the event was EFMB and I happen to be in the medical field. As such, I know plenty of veterinarians, nurses, physical therapists, dietitians, etc, both male and female; that are good people, highly motivated and proficient at their job, but of no fault of their own, are exceedingly detached from the training and demands of the operational, or Big Army lifestyle. For better or worse, it’s just the nature of the beast. Many of them spend their entire career in a hospital or clinic. Occasionally, some (not all) of these individuals will raise their hand and ask to participate in something like Air Assault, EFMB, Airborne, etc; as a means to challenge and better themselves. These achievements do little to progress the career of these individuals; stated another way, they stand to gain very little from these undertakings. Rather, they put out the effort for a sense of personal accomplishment. For that, I respect the effort, male or female.
I’d say that was a thorough explanation and clearly stated point of view. And–I hope that this doesn’t cause you to rethink it–I agree with you.
Roger that. I’m happy to see anybody earn their EFMB. It’s not easy to achieve. I’ve known some shit-hot medics that had to go back two or three times to be successful. If a young man or woman comes up to me and says “hey sir, I got my shit!” then I’m happy for them and proud of them. Makes no difference to me if they went viral on the Internet or not.
Like I said earlier I’m glad she finished. But I’m not gonna get all excited about somebody flopping around like a fish mere inches past the finish line after completing a 12 mile ruck march. That video is the opposite of motivating. It was pretty depressing.
It looks like the active Army has 16 general officers branched MC, VC, DC, or AN. Of those, 5 don’t have EFMBs. Of the 5, 2 have CMBs and 1 is SF qualified. While you contend that “EFMB is not even remotely required for her advancement” you are correct, but it appears that it is certainly a discriminator when considering best qualified.
The contention here is that she essentially half assed her prep. Because she was in good shape, she managed to just make it through. Sure, she’s a vet and will probably never have to do anything as remotely physical as that again. She earned the badge, and good for her, but unless someone in her CoC told her 10 days beforehand that she had to participate, there isn’t an excuse for her lack of perpetration. I’m going to guess that she hasn’t done a 12 mile timed march in her life and figured, because she’s spending a lot of time in the gym and maxing her APFT, that it would be a piece of cake. She was wrong.
I don’t disagree. If she failed to adequately train, or didn’t take the event seriously, it was absolutely a foolhardy approach. By definition, I’m about as POG as it gets, and even I know better than to try a 12mi road march without preparation. No argument here.
Time in a gym is good, and may even be critical to prepare for a particular activity, but it’s not the be-all and end-all of preparation. You have to actually participate in the activity you wish to excel at to become completely conditioned to it. Hiking and backpacking require not only gym time, but actual time hiking and backpacking, to become good at them; and what this woman was participating in was far, far more than just hiking and backpacking!
Yup… I learned the hard way. I went from the Navy to the Army and only had to do BRM before AIT. All my boots were new. First road march peeled the skin off my feet. Went to a MP Company as a commo guy and we did a 6 mile every Wednesday before breakfast and a 12 mile once a month. Everyone should be ready to be Infantry. Never know when you’re gonna have to hump.
“So she completed the course after having significant difficulty at the end?”
(•_•)
“Yeah, you could say she was,
( •_•)>⌐■-■
The Little Engine That Cudd.”
(⌐■_■) (*Ducks the incoming rotten fruit* 😀 )
Is she Active or Reserve? If Reserve, that could explain the 10 day train-up: 2 week AT, 10 days of prep followed by testing.
You see a few Reserve and Guard units offer things like that in lieu of regular summer camp with your unit.
She’s active component.
Well.
Nevermind.
She did not quit.
despite clearly having exceeded her physical limits, and having bitten off more than she could chew, she sucked it up and finished the task to standard. (However barely)
I suppose we will never know if she said “done” and went back to ‘meh,’, or said “wow, I really need to up my game” and did so. I would hope pride drove her to the latter option.
Step one of success is: never quit.
I remember doing forced road marches in Basic Combat Training in the Winter of 1968 when I was a soldier in the ALL-MALE United States Army.
I only did it a very few times, as most of the time, I was a Field Radio Relay and Carrier Equipment Repairman (MOS 31L20) in the Signal Corps, “in the rear with the gear”.
From time to time, even in the Signal Corps, we did go on field exercises and have simulated combat, but no forced road marches that I can remember.
In the old Republic of Viet Nam, I went on one (01) helicopter assault, two (02) combat patrols, plus several other assorted operations riding in vehicles, and stood perimeter guard duty approximately every other night and/or day.
I remember doing one forced road march at III Corps NCO Academy.
Later, I transferred into the Cavalry to become a Scout (MOS 11D20), where I got to do yet another forced road march (or maybe more).
With rare exceptions, Cavalry Scouts almost always RIDE to wherever they’re going!
I actually enjoyed being out in the bush, living the life of a real soldier.
Back then, females had a completely separate unit, the Women’s Army Corps (i.e., the “WAC”), and did not mix with male soldiers or get assigned to male units.
As a guy, I prefer it that way.
When the Army began assigning WACs to regular all-male units, a LOT of problems arose, which the Army denied and hushed up, just like they did with all the racial problems.
She finished clearly in some level of distress either physical or mental overload.
It happens.
However, everyone was cheering HER on.
I suspect she is a good egg.
The lead instructor needs to criteague her performance and provide feedbacck and corrective action.
Once done and sat … Deploy her ass!
Glad she finished … Now perform!
That is all.
PS: I am missing funeral for NYPD PO Brian Moore who was shot in the face by a perp who adjusted his weapon in front of the undercovers. I am attending a LE mtg in DC area. So tonight, say a prayer, on this LE Memorial Day, for the LEOs who are killed. What are the odds that the two LEOs killed last week were both named Moore?
AMEN to all of the above. Well said. Over.
One other thing I was wondering:
What if she was smokin’ hot, did the march in a string bikini and during one of her falls gave us all a Hail Mary, Saint Joseph and Sweet Baby Jesus look at her Yahoo regions … Would that make a difference?
HELL YEAH it would!
Good night!
I’d still make her push Ft. Knox to hell for dropping her weapon and using it as a crutch.
Or, don’t they do that anymore in the Army?
(But I’d probably wait 30 minutes after she crossed the finish line.)
Good on her for not quiting. That being said, going into the hump not prepared and sucking wind like a fucking hillbilly jug-band at the finish isn’t exactly a crowning achievement.
When I had a Marine stumble accross the PFT finish line at 27 minutes and some change the last thing I thought about was congratulating him for not quiting.
Painful video—-NOT, embarrassing video—-YIP, sorry for all the delicate snowflakes but with 2:45 and some change left on the clock with what 200-300m left to go..tell everyone with a camera to quit filming you, tell them all to pound sand….then just sit there, drink water, then get up and walk your ass across the line……Maybe I am old fashioned, seen plenty do it. You have three hours to finish a 12 mile march….no extra points given for being 15 min early….Anyway Congrats you got your shit on national television!!!!
P.S. it must not matter that ANYONE who does this on a regular basis and are expected to lead people give even half a shit…..another female GO at your station
In the corps she would have been pushed to the side and tree lined. Seen a guy complete a hump with a hernia and finish better than that.
Makes me wonder what these people would say seeing a real forced march and what happens to the slow weak links in the formation.
Two other words entered my mind when I saw the video: DRAMA QUEEN!
I’m certainly proud of my EFMB (earned)in the peace time 80s, and good for the Captain. But I think a better story is the day in day out accomplishments of our guys and gals who served as medics and corpsmen in recent combat performing some pretty heroic stuff.
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=29882
WTF!!!! As a badge holder I have to know why this soldier was not prepared. The EFMB is one of the most grueling courses the army has to offer. With an attrition rate well in excess of 70% she had no business embarrassing herself or the medical corps in this manner. When I got my “shit” our commander would not even allow us to go unless we achieved a 290 APFT, expert weapons qual, and completion of a 12-mile ruck in under 2.5hrs. Maybe this is why I was the first PFC in 10th mountain to achieve it? What the fuck is happening to MY Army??? I now hold a CMB and an EIB but I have more pride in accomplishing my EFMB than any other aspect of my 21 year career. Where was her pride?
What is the failure rate for this?
How many of those that started this failed?
Is she above the mean for all those that started this?
Well, it appears someone didn’t read the preceding comment. Info there appears to answer all three questions.
I can just imagine a young Soldier thinking: ” Wow, that’s my CO”.
Sad.
Weak.
But no surprise.