Specialist Nicholas Roberts in parachute accident
ROS sends us a link to the sad news that a young paratrooper, Specialist Nicholas Roberts was killed in a parachute accident on Tuesday, the second death in the last month which has caused the XVIIIth Airborne Corps to suspend parachute operations on Fort Bragg while an investigation of the accidents in conducted;
Spc. Nicholas Roberts, 27, of 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, died Tuesday during a training jump over Sicily Drop Zone. On April 16, Pvt. Joshua D. Phillips, 19, of 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division, died during an airborne training exercise at the Joint Readiness Training Center at Fort Polk, Louisiana.
Both paratroopers were using T-11 parachutes, which have been associated with at least four deaths of Fort Bragg soldiers since 2011.
The Corps will require that each unit will be required to pass through an Airborne Refresher Course at the Advanced Airborne School. This marks the fourth death of paratroopers in the 82d Airborne Division involving the T-11 parachutes. The article says that 63,000 jumps have been conducted with that parachute since the beginning of the year.
Specialist Roberts was a Reservist MP with a tour of Afghanistan and he had recently transitioned to the active force.
Category: Politics
Very sad … Military service is a noble occupation and most dangerous.
RIP Trooper!
I’m so sorry…it sucks when killed in battle, but in the states while training is senseless..R.I.P.
My condolences to SP4 Roberts’ family for his untimely death. But it looks as if he died doing what he wanted to do.
And on a side note, it looks as if SP4 Roberts was highly motivated and went out on a high note (no pun intended). I look at his rack and am highly impressed. When I was a SP4, I had maybe one row, and one tenth the jacket bling (of course, I was rear echelon commo repair, not front line tip-of-the-spear airborne infantry).
He looks as if he would have gone far. He will be missed.
Not to be mean-spirited but I suspect this is a good example of the proliferation of rack bling in the last 15 years or so – his Good Conduct Medal, one of the lowest possible awards, is on the 4th row up. Regardless, his loss is a sad example of the loss of good men who protect the rest of us regardless of whether it is peace or war.
In the future, when you post on a thread like this, ask yourself how you would feel if it was YOUR son, that was being talked about. Then look at what you wrote, and take out the part that makes you cringe.
No aspersion was cast on him and I think the last sentence is the most important. If you feel an objective comment is inappropriate, suggest you ask Jonn to edit it.
I’d rather talk to you — and Jonn is not a schoolmarm, that he should get between the kiddies and make them play nice.
well, at least until we start throwing library paste. I promise not to dip your pigtails in an inkwell.
ROFL! 😀
These comments though xD
Thank you.
Gee, let’s look at that claim: Good Conduct Medal – next lower – hidden by lapel but most likely the Reserve Component Achievement Medal established in 1971. Next lower: Nat’l Defense Service Medal (est. 1953). Next lower: Afghan Campaign Medal (2004). Next lower: GWOT Expeditionary Medal (2001). Next: Armed Forces Reserve medal (1950). Next: NCO Prof Development (1981). Army Service Ribbon (1981), Army Overseas Ribbon (1981). Last – NATO Medal (ISAF?). Not sure what your point is. When Soldiers go to war, they earn campaign medals/service ribbons. Always have. New campaigns will be recognized by new medals, but the vast majority of his rack below the GCM are older than most serving members. That the Good Conduct Medal is higher than campaign medals, I have no explanation.
He was an MP in the Reserves before going Active Duty. Deployments to A-Stan and Africa.
If by proliferation of rack bling, do you mean the Afghanistan Campaign Medal and NATO Medal ribbons he is wearing for deployment to a war zone, or the Global War on Terror Service Medal ribbon he is wearing for serving on AD after 9/11? Every other award or decoration he is wearing has been around for well over 30 years. There is no bling on his rack, or recent proliferation of bling. In the past 14 years we have had multiple wars, multiple deployments and campaign medals established to recognize those efforts.
The profession is indeed dangerous, but it’s still sad to see one so young killed in training.
Rest in peace, young man. May God comfort your friends and family.
We are better for having had this young warrior among us.
Rest in peace, Specialist.
Always sucks when a Service member goes through war and then gets killed in training or an off-post accident. Looks like he was a good man.
Will be curious to see if there is a common thread with the T-11 accidents. There are so many things that can go wrong. Maybe the T-11 isn’t as forgiving? I thought to myself that the slower descent rate mentioned in the article is great in training but would suck if you’re getting shot at.
RIP Trooper. Prayers for him and his family.
In some ways it isn’t as forgiving. Although the T-11 has a slower descent speed when fully deployed, it takes additional time to fully deploy. Thus, by the time it has deployed, the jumper is a few hundred feet closer to the ground than he would be with a T-10. One of the upsides to the T-11 is that there is less of an “opening shock” and more of an “opening aggressive tugging.” Once you have a full canopy, you usually have juuuuuist enough time to release all appropriate equipment tiedowns and begin the fourth point of performance. The downside, if you haven’t figured it out already, is that if you have ANY problems in the air, you don’t have but a few seconds to rectify them. And by few I mean less than ten. Struggling with the weapons case tiedown? You have time for one attempt, and then you’re riding that thing in. Discover twists in the second point of performance? You better hope there isn’t more than one complete twist. Discover twists AND someone sky sharks you? You are proper fucked.
I don’t mean to bad mouth the T-11, I actually like it. However, some troopers don’t realize how thin the margins of error are. Not to imply that’s the reason for SPC Roberts’ death–just responding to your question about the T-11.
Now in English for us dirty legs please.
1. You land softer (e.g., falling slower) with the T-11, but it takes longer to open than the ‘chute it replaced.
2. Because of that longer opening time, you fall further before your ‘chute opens and slows you down at all.
3. Because of 2. above, if something goes wrong while you’re in the air you only have a few seconds to fix it – or you’re in a world of hurt.
Thanks
11B3P: Is training jump altitude still 1250 Feet? If so, perhaps the Airborne Test Directorate should consider raising it to compensate for the longer opening time of the T-11, only in training of course.
Most civilians have no idea of just how dangerous military training can be, especially in the combat arms.
RIP trooper Roberts.
In English for you lesser effective folks: the Current parachute delivers you to the ground slightly faster than the old one, but the landing is usually softer (if all goes well). It does this by extending the amount of time the chute actually takes to fully deploy after exiting the aircraft; once deployed (Appx 6 seconds after exit), its vertical speed is lower than that of the old parachute, which means you’re less likely to have a rough landing.
Poetrooper; I don’t know what doctrine dictates the minimum training jump altitude is. I know I’ve jumped as low as 1000 ft as well as 1200. I’ve heard other guys swear up and down that they’ve jumped the T-11 at 900 ft, but I never had any cause to believe them.
Sorry, 11B3P – didn’t see your explanation before I posted mine.
I was a leg myself, but reading the information on the T-11, it makes me wonder if this canopy would be used on combat jumps at a very low altitude. Such as the drops in the Panama invasion in 1989. 500 feet or so.
I heard from a couple of friends still in that it was 600ft with no reserve.
No need for one at that altitude. I was leg but skydiver near the end of my enlistment and then in civilian life. No static line though. Every time I was under “sport” canopy (after opening at 2000 ft) I thought “damn… I’m 4x higher than the grunts who jumped in Panama!”
So does anyone know if the new canopy could be jumped at. 600ft?
Damn. Appreciate the info. I almost always had twists and sometimes another trooper walking on my chute.
To add to what 11B3P above said, I thought I’d put virtual pencil to paper and show the magnitude of the difference here. Here’s a “quick and dirty” estimate that, while not exact, should at least be in the ballpark. The older T-10 parachute opened fully (and fairly suddenly) at around 4 seconds. When you jumped one of those, you were essentially in free-fall for about 4 seconds. Neglecting air resistance (not perfectly accurate, but fairly close for falls of that duration), that means before your parachute opened you fall D = (1/2)(G)(T^2) = 0.5 x 32.2 x (4^2) = about 250 feet. Let’s reduce that a bit to account for wind resistance and the parachute deploying, and say about 225 feet. You’d also be falling vertically ( V = Vo + Gt, and Vo in the vertical direction is about zero) at a rough vertical speed of somewhere between 80 and 90 MPH when it opened. I never had a chance to jump the T-11, but I understand it opens fully at 6 seconds. Doing the same math, that gives D = 1/2 (G) (T^2) = 0.5 x 32.2 x (6^2) = 0.5 x 32.2 x 36 = roughly 580 feet. I understand that the T-11 opens more “gently” (e.g., takes longer to open), so that’s a bit of an over-estimate. Let’s say about 500 feet, which I’d guess should be roughly in the ballpark. You’ll also be falling vertically quite a bit faster – the calculation neglecting wind resistance works out to about 130MPH at 6 seconds, but let’s drop that to say 110MPH to account for increasing wind resistance. So, with the T-11 you end up somewhere around 275 feet closer to the ground and going somewhere around 20MPH faster before the parachute opens fully. And remember: military static line jumps are typically from low altitude – as PT said above, usually from around 1250 feet or so. So that also means that with the T-11 your reaction time in the event of a problem has been reduced substantially. In combat, that’s probably a good trade. The… Read more »
Good in combat unless it was Panama? If they were at 500 – 600 ft, and I understood your calcs correctly, wouldn’t that have put them on the deck right about full canopy?
The above was only a “quick and dirty” estimate, Old Manchu. It could be off quite a bit – though I think it’s probably within 10-15%.
Without seeing some real test data, I’d certainly have misgivings about making (or approving, were I ever in a position to do so) a jump with the T-11 from 500′ or 600′ AGL. It might be completely OK to jump from that altitude with the T-11, but based on the above I’d want to see some real hard test data showing it was OK before I signed up for/signed off on that.
I’m guessing the minimum jump altitude is now around 700′ or so. Maybe someone with current knowledge can weigh in here and give us the answer.
Keep in mind Hondo the minimum drop altitude for an actual combat drop will be determined by the Airlift Commander and the Airborne Commander.
The Airlift Commander, for those not familiar, is the officer in charge of the aircraft for the jump. The Airborne Commander is the officer in charge of the ground forces (usually an 0-5 or 0-6 in BN or BDE command).
The Airlift Commander will want the altitude high, to keep his aircraft safe, the Airborne Commander will want the altitude low, to keep his paratroopers minimally exposed to ground fire. In the end, they will reach a compromise that they can both work with.
With the T-11, will the aircraft be as low as they were with the T-10 when they drop? Probably not, but when the Parachute fully deploys, the jumper will be at a comparable altitude due to the longer opening time of the parachute.
This also does not take into consideration if they are dropping Heavy Equipment or Containerized Delivery System (CDS) Bundles All of which is dropped prior to the first paratroopers exiting the door. Depending on what force package they are dropping, will determine the altitude as well.
Understood, and I don’t think that’s changed in quite a while. (smile) Just wondering if you knew the min altitude regarded as safe for jumping the T-11.
I believe the minimum safe altitude for Mass Tactical Jumps in a training environment is still 800 feet.
I would think that would put you at fairly close to the opening altitude of the T-10 being dropped from 500 feet AGL.
Which goes into what 11B3P mentioned, your reaction time if something does go wrong is very, very short.
Soldiers have to be on the ball and focused. And if you have been lugging a 60+ lb ruck with you in your lap for the past 4-18 hours, it can make you a little sluggish.
All of this is my opinion, not to be construed as official statement of the XVIII Airborne Corps or the Department of the Army.
Understood about that being personal opinion – and thanks much for the info.
Thanks to both of you for the info. My respect for the airborne troops just went up even more. !
“I saw an old lady walking down the street…
She had a ruck on her back and jump boots on her feet….”
Sad to see. I’ll hoist a drink to both of them today.
May the Angels of His Mercy bring solace to their families and friends.
Crap. Man, I absolutely hate training fatalities.
I’ll be praying for the Roberts family’s comfort.
RIP, soldiers.
And prayers to all those who go into harms way for their country.
Rest in peace and God be with you, Soldier.
My condolences to his family and those who served with him.
Rest in Peace, Paratrooper.
God bless his family, the men he served with and all those that serve in this time of strife across our nation and the Earth.
Godspeed to him, our world is an emptier place without him in it.
I am certain he will be missed by many.
Rest in Peace now Specialist Nicholas Roberts. God bless and be with your family in their time of grief and mourning. Hand…Salute!
RiP Spc Roberts…my condolences and those of my family to your family and loved ones, may they find peace and comfort in their memories of you.
Godspeed soldiers, Godspeed.
I’ll also hoist one tonight, to their service and memory.
OC
My condolences to the comrades and loved ones of Specialist Nicholas Roberts.
As a boy, I watched many a jump at Sicily Drop Zone, usually T-10s from C-119s.
Since I’ve been out of the Army for about a gazillion years, and everything has changed, I’ve got a question about the photograph of Specialist Nicholas Roberts.
I’ve seen staggered riband racks which solve the problem of ribands being hidden by the uniform jacket’s lapel.
But, that wouldn’t work for him, because he already has so many awards, that even without a jacket lapel (such as on a United States Marine uniform), his Fourragere would still interfere with his his ribands and his Combat Action Badge.
In the past, I’ve seen photographs of highly decorated career officers who regularly wore only a few of their numerous awards.
In that situation, how do they select which awards to wear on their uniform, and which awards not to wear?
Do they select only the three (or whatever number) highest ribands, or do they select their most recent campaign ribands?
Are enlisted personnel permitted to exercise that same option?
My best friend (now serving forever at Arlington National Cemetery…RIP) only wore 1 award: a Distinguished Service Cross.
I watched a reservist in the stick behind me tangle with another guy and burn in. Both bounced like a ball and both died. Another friend of my daughters stopped by the house a few years ago with her and not long after tied his chute in a knot and broke a bunch of bones.
When you put your knees to the breeze anything can happen. It’s a dangerous thing to trust your life to a little silk and the packer who stuffed it.
Hoist a cold one to the Paratrooper who died doing what he loved.
https://youtu.be/0KonxiEQ8oM
H-minus,fellow paratrooper. May Grady escort you to the gates of eternity. Prayers for his family and friends in this time.
It takes a special kind of person to be able to jump out of an airplane into the dark and then seize an objective after an 18-hour sequence. And as Winston Churchill is attributed with saying, ‘The air is an extremely dangerous, jealous and exacting mistress. Once under the spell most lovers are faithful to the end, which is not always old age’.
As to the T-11, It has been problematic in it’s employment. To be fair, the T-10 had similar teething issues from talking to old timers, but when you have a parachute that was basically used for 50 years, most of the bugs were worked out of it decades ago.
The T-11, when it works is a nice,soft landing, especially with combat equipment. I have been on a jump and landed on the roll bar of a heavy-dropped HMMWV that was out on the drop zone. and I am convinced the only reason I am still able to walk was because I was jumping that parachute. The rate of descent is noticeably slower than the T-10.
RayRay: any idea as to the min safe altitude for jumping the T-11? Just curious.
Google found this interesting page: http://www.airborne-sys.com/pages/view/t-11 It says 500′! From what others have posted, that could be hairy!
Boy – I’d love to see the test data that supports that. If I recall correctly, that’s not much above the min for the T-10.
Not saying I don’t buy it, but I’d really like to see the test data and accompanying analysis.
Nick is my nephew and was a wonderful young man. I have a hard time believing that people could be less than nice about someone who gives his life in the pursuit of making our lives more safe and allows us our freedom. That being said, one of the first articles I read after I found out about his death was about the deaths related to the T-11 parachute. I have a feeling that we will never find out what happened – the Army is still “investigating.” For now, thank you for all your thoughts and prayers.