Davidson: Band of sisters: Elite group of female Army Rangers battled under harrowing conditions
There is an article in the New York Times written by Janine Davidson entitled “Band of sisters: Elite group of female Army Rangers battled under harrowing conditions“. Davidson claims to be a Senior Fellow for Defense Policy at the Council on Foreign Relations and a former Air Force C-130 and C-17 pilot. She writes about a book, Ashley’s War about Army Lieutenant Ashley White and the “cultural support teams” (CST) in Afghanistan. The team were a group of women who accompanied special operations forces on their “hearts and minds” missions among Afghans.
Davidson calls the CSTs’ training “an abbreviated Army Ranger course”. For someone who claims to have been in the military, that’s a pretty ignorant statement. There’s no such thing as an abbreviated Army Ranger course. It may have been an introduction to infantry training, but it didn’t approach the intensity of Ranger training – and there’s no way to abbreviate Ranger training. I know Davidson want to slowly immerse the culture into the idea that women are Rangers, even though there aren’t any female Rangers yet.
I don’t deny that the CSTs trained hard. I know at least one of the women who went through that training – she’s rock hard and she had already been awarded a Purple Heart for her time in combat before she went to the CSTs. But, I’m sure that she wouldn’t claim to have been through “an abbreviated Army Ranger course”.
Davidson complains that women were sent into combat with ill-fitting equipment designed to be worn by men, and she complains that the women weren’t as well-trained as the men making them a “burden” on the male troops with them.
It is appalling that the CSTs were asked to conduct such missions without the tactical training that would have prepared them to defend themselves. Inadequate training made them, by design, a “burden,” since they needed to be defended when the team was attacked. Such scenarios artificially reinforce arguments about how women in combat will undermine “unit cohesion.”
Well, as the Marine Corps’ Infantry Officer Course experiment has demonstrated, women aren’t made that way. Combat training is necessarily demanding physically – it’s how the casualties of the Iraq War and the Afghanistan War have been kept relatively low, compared to past conflicts like Vietnam. The objective of the whole CST program was to get American women face-to-face with Afghan women, it wasn’t to make American women hard body, lean and mean life-takers.
The men in those units knew their job was to protect the women on CSTs while they did their cultural thing – not to reinforce stereotypes. Just like when politicians go among the masses they are protected by personal security details which allows those politicians to perform their function in relative security. Should we require politicians to go through the same training as their bodyguards? No, it would distract from their particular function, just like requiring CSTs to go through Ranger or Special Forces training would distract from the CSTs function.
But, Davidson’s main concern in this discussion, of course, is the social engineering aspect. Being a veteran herself, she should know that the mission should transcend the petty arguments among the activists, but, obviously, the money and the politics are more important to her than the obligation that veterans have to the currently engaged force. She called the CSTs “Rangers” for all the wrong reasons.
Category: Military issues
The CST we took out in Afghanistan was led by a female AF CPT who had to be ordered to take her oversized diamond earrings out before we left the wire. Maybe that was one of the things they left out in the abbreviated Ranger course. It could also be the person who wrote this article has no idea what they’re talking about.
Dammit now I’m pissed off thinking about it again. We were the security force for an ADT (ag development team) and we were tasked with taking Princess Captain and her entourage to a woman’s home. I was the squad leader/ mission leader. Lucky me.
Princess continuously interrupted our mission briefing the night before. Things finally came to a head when I moved her from our second truck to our lead truck. Princess Patton then informs me that VIPs should NEVER be placed in the lead vehicle, because that’s the one that ALWAYS gets hit. I wish I had a picture of the look on her face when I told her she wasn’t VI.
We did the mission, but mysteriously we were always “busy” when the CST needed to go out again.
Same here brother. Our female medic and our Bn’s female interpreter were both harder than anyone in the FET that stopped through our COP. Never had an issue with jewelry but perfume and eye makeup were battles my then-PL fought daily with their team chief, a Navy LTJG. They stuck out. Sticking out in combat is a bad thing. In the rear though, I’ll admit, having females around the COP was kind of nice. Oh snap, did I just cross the “gentleman’s barrier”? #Moerkbait.
Miz Davidson’s full of more stuff than a Christmas turkey. What a tool.
Always with the agendas, these people. Always with the agendas …
10% less bone density = more stress fractues
10% less hemoglobin = less oxygen to body
10% more body fat = less aerobic capacity
Biology always trumps feminist PCBS. Doesn’t matter if you give 100%, because you are already competing against male athletes giving 100%.
You would have better odds becoming the first female NFL linebacker.
This.
Damn your sexist biology!
/SJW
Well, they’ll just make the guns lighter and smaller for the girls, like smaller by 1/3 and with smaller rounds.
Thought you guys knew that.
They did that in Vietnam when they went from the M-14 to the M-16.
Interestingly enough, it didn’t really change any of the actual weight carried, however.
I remember transitioning with the Alice gear from 4 magazine pouches ( 2 mags each plus 1 with the weapon for 9 magazines) to 4 pouches (3 mags each with 1 in the weapon for 13 magazines).
I loved the M-14. I got used to the M-16 just fine, except for that damned shhching sound of the recoil spring in the buttstock. It radiated into my ear, through my cheekbone, with every damned round I fired.
I never served in Vietnam. I’m just pointing out what I noticed when the transition came along.
Smaller, lighter helmets? Ditto for rucks? I know, the Regime is working on it.
They lost me at, “There is an article in the New York Times. . . “
You know what the funny thing is? As a *guy* I have no problem saying “I could never have done that Ranger shit.” I remember doing a lethality and survival analysis on some stuff some Rangers were doing and saying to myself “Holy crap. Where do they get these guys?” Followed shortly by “Let’s get back to the Holiday Inn. I need a beer.” *I* am not genetically built to be a Ranger. I’m built for other things. Good things. Valuable things. But other things. But it seems in order to be politically correct, we all have to believe that *all* women are built to be Rangers. It just ain’t so. Bell curves are bell curves, and you can’t pretend that the 0.01 percent at the upper end of the female bell curve represents the mean. I remember a Christmas celebration we had back at the family ranch when I first got married. My family has always been a physical bunch with lots of rough housing and such. A bunch of us were playing some stupid game in the living room — some sort of grab-somebody’s-something-and-keep-it-away-from-them thing. My wife was right in there, and my dad (who was 75 years old) grabbed her and held her. She struggled, and Dad barely noticed. She realized she was completely helpless and panicked. My dad was abashed and apologized all over himself. My wife was shaken, but recovered, and we all pretended it didn’t happen. When I talked to her that night, she said that it wasn’t being held that shocked her. She said that what shocked her was the fact that my father had so effortlessly overpowered her so completely. She always thought of herself as a ‘spunky’ kind of fighter-type woman, all “I am woman hear me roar” kind of stuff. And here was this old man who completely controlled her *while concentrating on someone else — they guy who had the ball.* She asked me if I thought I could do that to her, too. I said, “Baby, you have no idea how much most of us guys have to… Read more »
Yup, some of the strongest guys I’ve run into have been 75 year old farmers.
No need for PT for those guys. Their whole life is one big PT!
Heh. There’s nothing like a day of throwing bales of hay on the back of a flatbed for upper body work.
The thing that bothers me, though, is this weird obsession with Special Forces. Rangers and SEALS and Pararescue are great folk. But they don’t win wars. Average Joes and Jills doing their duty win wars. It ain’t no walk in the park being an infantryman or rifleman or treadhead. I had a cousin who drove a tank in Viet Nam. I didn’t even know that they *had* tanks in Viet Nam. And apparently they made a point of filling them full of white phosphorous rounds, which did wonders for survivability of the tank crew.
It’s *those* guys who win wars, all due respect to special forces types. And it’s those guys who mostly get shot up.
But that’s not good enough. Everybody has to be special forces. Screw that. If someone wants to serve, then they need to serve where they are needed, not where they need in order to maximize their own selfish sense of self-esteem. The watchword of the Army is not “self-actualization is our goal.” It’s a great byproduct, but part of that is learning that the world doesn’t exist to make you feel better about yourself.
My grandpa raised Belgian horses (as a hobby along with regular farming) until he was 95, died at 97. Even when he was no longer steady on his feet he still had no problem pulling himself up.
CST is “abbreviated Ranger training” in the same way that taking a commercial flight home on leave is “abbreviated C-130 pilot training”.
LOL!!
That’s a good one.
You mean you didn’t get your pilot’s wings when you went on R&R? I thought everyone did…
Killer apes? Yes, you are. You all are.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/national/viral-video-gorilla-breaks-glass-window-at-zoo
Just don’t tease them.
Seriously, if this reporter could bother to do her research properly and get her facts straight, the PC stuff would most likely go down the drain. She either ignores or misunderstands the whole CST business, and does what can only be called a half-baked job of reporting.
That’s the last time that little girl will beat her chest at the gorilla cage. He wasn’t kidding around was he?
With three adult male gorillas trying to establish a rank among themselves, no, he wasn’t.
The great apes just see us as one of them, only less hairy.
It doesn’t take a full grown gorilla to bounce a man around like a child’s ball. A two year old Chimpanzee can pick a 180 lb man off the ground with one arm.
Dr. roger Foutes told me of the time he was working with a 2 year old Chimp in his primate study where the chimp was on a leash and decided to climb on piece of equipment in the lab. Dr. Foutes asked the chimp to come down, Ordered him down, and finally yanked on the leash to pull him down. He said the juvenile Chimp simply pulled on the leash, and using only one arm, and lifted Roger off the ground and held him there.
Hence the rule in the chimp lab that if a chimp ever reached out of the cage and grabbed something, you were to surrender it. That or be extruded thru the cage bars.
I believe the solution is for women to be allowed to try out for these highly specialized MOSs, PROVIDED they can meet the physical specifications, which should not change.
And when one comes along, you will be able to spot her from a long way off.
^^this, there’s going to be that one woman that’ll be able to complete the training, she just hasn’t done it yet. But she’s going to be that one in 100,000 that just blows your mind at how athletic she is.
Unfortunately, if a certain party is in power when that happens, they’ll point to her, and tell everyone that now that she is a Ranger/Recon/SEAL/PJ, all women can be one.
At some point, I wonder about the ROI. Is it really worth taking up, say, 1000 training slots for what could end up being fewer than 10 graduates? That goes for any of the elite schools.
As long as they can do the job, pass the training without changing standards and they are smokin’ HOT … I say sign them up.
With respect to the CST mission, they all should have been pre-screened for Relative Western Hotness Factor (RWHF) made to wear string bikinis … That would have changed the hearts and minds.
Master Chief,
Back in ’78, VP-10 was the first of the Patrol Squadrons to have women assigned to it. We got the standard allotment of admin types, BUT we also got some AB’s AO’s and ASM’s and a corpsman to boot, and let me tell you what, those women were not only nice on the eyes, but they were women I would be willing to trust as having our backs in a bar fight or back alley somewhere. Yeah, not the same as combat, but they spent their workdays humping tie-down chains, ordnance and sheet metal, and while not as physically strong as the men, they knew how to take someone down in other ways. 🙂
Having said that, my point is that I’m fine with women applying for any rate/MOS/etc, as long as the standards don’t change. When they brought women into the AW rate, a lot of us were WTF, over? but the ones who qualed were also the ones who passed the Navy’s Aircrew candidate School, and as you and others know, that ain’t a walk in the park either, so kudos to them.
I still am of two minds regarding women in combat slots, but regardless, they ought to at least get the chance to apply.
I agree. HOTNESS and raw ability!
Anything less than that, not my conversation.
I think you meant AMS/AMH’s (now just AM’s)…which are/were the tin benders and bubble chasers out of the Airframes shop. ASM’s were the GSE pukes.
The CST women were not trained as the men because their mission was not a combat mission. Is that too tough to comprehend? The author of Ashleys War explains: “The idea was that women could access places and people that had remained out of reach and could build relationships—woman to woman—in ways that male soldiers in a conservative, traditional country could not.” So, the AF chick can play all the games she likes but the women were not in it for a fight. And that’s why they were, as she says, rushed through abbreviated training.
Please tell me I’m not the only one to notice the irony of complaining about sexism while benefiting from sexism and doing so because the entire mission validates sexism for enemy appeasement.
There is plenty of blatant sexism occurring in the DoD and it’s not to the determent of females.
No, you are not alone in that observation. Some of us have expressed it openly for quite a long time. 😉
Here is a quote from the article:
“Lemmon asked me to review the book because she thought that having been the first woman to pilot the tactical C-130 transport aircraft in the Air Force …”
Serious question – all of the C130s I have been around were rigged as transport aircraft. I think that Spooky and Spectre are tactical. Is there a designation “tactical transport”? I sounds a little like “gun truck” except airplanes, for the most part, are not trucks. You don’t just roll a 105 into the cargo area, strap it down, and go for it.
Here is a clip from Davidson’s bio on cfr.org
“Dr. Davidson began her career in the United States Air Force, where she was an aircraft commander and senior pilot for the C-130 and the C-17 cargo aircraft. She flew combat support and humanitarian air mobility missions in Asia, Europe and the Middle East and was an instructor pilot at the U.S. Air Force Academy.”
I do not agree with her take on women in combat but it sounds like she earned the right to have an opinion.
…Well, you could make the argument that Mr. Herk is a ‘tactical’ transport – it can land pretty close to the battlefield on rough strips and deliver troops and gear straight to the fight, whereas the ‘strategic’ C-5 and C-17 haul much bigger and much more, and need proper airfields some distance from the front line.
Now, I know that you can’t pigeonhole ANY of those birds into those roles, and by the book all three of them can be used in any combination of those roles. I also know that USAF trash hauler pilots tend to pigeonhole themselves the way I just laid out. So, although it’s not exactly accurate, the ‘tactical/strategic’ thing isn’t completely wrong, either.
Mike
The use of the term “tactical” to describe the mission went out of fashion some decades ago officially. My opinion is that since the Air Guard was the only ones flying those missions, somebody somewhere didn’t want to emphasize that distinction.
It was so bad that by the time we deployed to DS/DS/DS, the first few weeks were spent flying training missions. We Guard folks finally rebelled because it was such a colossal waste of time and fuel. But, the active duty folks had not qualed on the tactical stuff since leaving C-130 school and had to be brought up to speed. Meanwhile, every Guard aircrew arrived in theatre fully prepared to fly any mission. After that fact was pointed out to the powers that be, only those who needed further training got it. Very grudgingly.
The C-130 remains the best for all around capability in a multitude of situations. It will do things that no other aircraft can do. Of course, other aircraft can do things it cannot as well.
I was reading a Duffelblog article and then looked here and for a moment I thought it was written by the Duffelblog folks. Hard to believe. You would think by now somw woman has been flying the Spooky gunships. They fly all kinds of helicopters.
Being an outsider/foreign veteran, I’m confoosed. She says the women did training that can even somehow be compared to Ranger training (abbreviated Ranger); but she also says they didn’t have adequate tactical training to defend themselves? Clearly those two notions do NOT go together, and she has called BS on herself.
The “Big Lie” continues.
Word.
All-Points Logistics.
I guess the author overlooks the platoon of Infantry that is usually assigned to protect/assist CST’s and vice-versa.
The “Big Lie” continues…
It looks like the title of the article was changed from “female Army Rangers” to “female Army Soldiers”. Although the link still has the text containing the original title.