Medal of Honor for Chris Kyle?
Chief Tango sends us a link to the Washington Post which discusses the efforts of Texas Congressman Roger Williams who is spearheading the effort to clear the way for President Obama to award the Medal of Honor to late “American Sniper” Chris Kyle. I know this post is going to get some of you pissed off.
There is no one who is more defensive of Chris Kyle’s legacy than me. I read his book in one sitting the day that it hit my Kindle – the day it was released. I’ve read it twice since then. I was probably the first blogger who knew about his death, but since I couldn’t get get confirmation I held off, if nothing else, out of respect for his family.
Chris Kyle certainly accomplished much more during his career in the military than I did, by comparison, he certainly deserves the Medal of Honor. But, the thing is that he was never considered for the award while he was in the Navy.
Kyle already is highly decorated for his heroism in combat. He received two prestigious Silver Stars, which are two levels below the Medal of Honor, and five Bronze Stars with V device for valor.
There are hundreds of members of the military whose martial biographies are similar, but they don’t have a best selling book and a blockbuster movie, and I get the feeling that is the only reason that Williams is going through all of this because of Kyle’s name recognition. The Routh trial and the success of the movie about Kyle are intersecting at the Medal of Honor.
It seems to me to be a political stunt. There was no effort to get him the award while he was alive, before there was a book, before there was a movie. I’m not saying that he doesn’t deserve the award, but I’m thinking that he would be the first to disabuse folks of the notion.
Category: Real Soldiers
No disrespect intended, but this effort seems driven by sentimental reasons.
Great point.. political people scare the hell out of me
Ain’t that for jumping on a grenade?
Sometimes it’s best to leave a man’s memory alone. I think this is a misguided effort based on emotion rather than analysis. That’s never the appropriate reason for a course of action.
Kyle was a lot of things, some of them magnificent and others much less so. Just because he’s dead doesn’t remove the obvious flaws.
Those flaws will become the focus under a move to elevate a previous award or try to create a circumstance for the MoH from whole cloth.
He had a distinguished career, his name will never be forgotten thanks to the book and movie and the real life story of it all.
That’s more than I can say about a lot of men who were also heroes and whose lives mattered but whose names will be lost to all but a few of us who continue to utter those names and repeat their stories.
Well said.
Very well said, and agree. This reeks of politics (cold and calculated) and emotion, and neither are good in these circumstances. The effort is misguided, and I hope quickly quashed.
Reading my mail, VOV. I think Chief Kyle would be more honored if, instead of the MOH, his family was taken care of.
Agreed wholeheartedly.
Spot on, a movement that most anyone could get behind I would hope. No reason children should be suffering in their father’s absence due to a violent crime.
Veritas Omnia Vincit…As always sir, well said and thank you.
VOV, well said.
You’ve succinctly stated what most of us are capable of thinking, but not able to write.
Well you’ll be in good company John. He accomplished great things and I agree, this has more to do with name reconition than anything else. That to me would cheapen The Medal.
Agree with everything said.
I have had enough of Kyle flaws. Is he the only one? No check Audie Murphy life out. He was a alky with what is Today PTSD also Ira Haynes. Any of the people we hold as heros are humans with their own set of flaws. Think Presidents not just this current one. Yes,Jonn I think this gesture is unrated. Grandstanding for a Polito Joe
Both famous Texans had issues that they dealt with in their own way when they came home. Both worked very hard to help their fellow veterans with similar issues for the rest of their lives after coming home. And both died well before their time.
The left’s attempted character assassination of Kyle is somewhat reminiscent of the time that Murphy was charged with attempted murder. The truth soon came out that Murphy had indeed assaulted the man (who was twice his size) and kicked his ass, and had done so in defense of a female friend who had been sexually assaulted by the other guy. The guy claimed that Murphy had tried to shoot him and missed. Murphy shot that claim down (so to speak) with words to the effect of, “If I had tried to shoot that guy, I wouldn’t have missed and he wouldn’t be alive to complain.”
There is no doubt about Kyle’s remarkable and exemplary ability, skill and actions as a combat warrior.
The timing does suggest that Congressman Roger Williams is riding the wave of Kyle’s courageous exploits and popularity.
It does smell, doesn’t it?
This looks to be a textbook example of why politicians are nearly universally reviled.
Yep – another example of a politician being an opportunist. I kinda doubt he’s doing this for altruistic reasons alone.
My respect for Congressman Williams just went way down.
No Jonn, looks like most of us are on board with your view.
Now had said Congressman been pushing for a MoH for Sgt. Peralta, I’d be 200% on board. Chief Kyle, while certainly a hero in almost every sense if the word, was not considered, and IMHO, would not be today were he still with us.
Excellent point on Peralta, agreed it would be an appropriate consideration and a deserved award.
Isn’t this supposed to be awarded to the recipient for doing something extraordinary that kept other people from being killed and/or badly wounded, or something?
I agree that this seems like a political stunt. The congressman misunderstands its purpose. And why wasn’t this done before Kyle was murdered by Routh? And what about the other guy who was killed by Routh? He seems to have been forgotten in all of this, but he didn’t have a book or a movie. He’s dead, too. Does he get one?
It doesn’t annoy me yet, but this isn’t not supposed to be flung around like foil-covered chocolate coins in a parade.
Edit: ‘isn’t not supposed to be’ should be ‘isn’t supposed to be’.
Not enough caffeine. My bad. Sorry.
Chad wasn’t ever in the Military I believe.
OK. Thanks.
Here’s what the manual says:
c. Eligibility Requirements
(1) Eligibility Criteria
(a) In accordance with sections 3741, 6241, and 8741 of Reference (k), the MOH may be awarded to members of the U.S. Armed Forces who distinguish themselves conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of their lives above and beyond the call of duty under any of the following circumstances:
1. While engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States.
2. While engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force.
3. While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.
(b) The deed performed must have been one of personal bravery or self-sacrifice so conspicuous as to clearly distinguish the individual above his or her comrades and must have involved risk of life.
(c) Proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the Service member performed the valorous action for which they were recommended for the MOH.
(d) While MOH criteria include a requirement for the Service member to risk his or her life, there is NO requirement for the member to be wounded or killed in order to meet the
I respect the hell out of Chief Kyle and am proud to be a fellow Texan, but I agree that the MOH is probably more for current politics than for past actions.
I agree with everyone here. When I first heard about this my reaction was that Chief Kyle did a hell of a lot of things in the military that I can’t hold a candle to, but the MoH shouldn’t be awarded because someone thinks it would be an awesome tribute.
Plus, from what I have read about the Chief, I don’t think he would want it either.
NO MoH for SHOW!
Chief Kyle and his legacy is sound!
2 SS and 5 BS w/V … few Tier 1 Bubba’s achive that!
The Master Chief is, as usual, spot-on.
Anyone who knows Chris will state with 100% certainty that he would not want this course of action pursued.
Thanks Sharkman!
Send me an email via Jonn!
I second the motion
Skippy…Agreed with Master Chief and you. Motion carried.
Well, well said Jonn. You shouldn’t piss anyone off in here.
Many of us here admire Chris for the man he was and what he did. The MOH is very specific and not meant as something to reward based on riding a popularity wave. The fact that Chris did not get one means nothing.
Richard Winters and Chesty Puller didn’t get one either. I don’t think anybody doubts their heroism.
Rep Williams snagged a 5 minute interview on FNC this morning w/ Martha McCallum….got a some national face time – mission accomplished.
I saw that, did not hear a word he said, I love Martha!
You know what I am talkin’ about?
Yeah, Martha is amazing….and does a great job filling in for Greta or Megyn when they take vacays.
Far more deserving of such a move is SFC Alwyn Cash
http://www.historynet.com/a-medal-of-honor-for-sfc-alwyn-cashe.htm
who gave his life to rescue his crew from a burning Humvee in Iraq. You wrote of him here, Jonn, back in December I believe it was. At that time I contacted my newly-elected senator, Tom Cotton, and his office notified me they would look into the matter once Senator Cotton got his feet on the ground in Washington. I think by the end of March should be sufficient time for him to have accomplished that.
Does anyone here know how to contact that Brigadier General Brito, Cashe’s former commander, who was part of the push for the MoH?
I mentioned Cashe and Peralta to the young lady who interviewed me from The Hill.
Yep. The MoH is not a lifetime achievement honor, among other things it is not.
In some significant ways, every active sniper meets the criteria for MoH just for doing their jobs properly. Every day what they do is above and beyond what is expected of almost all of the rest of us.
Also agree that Kyle would be the loudest voice in opposition to this stunt (or whatever it is) were he able to do so. We must now speak for him.
An LOM might be fitting for an “awesome career” award – but I agree, his record, as is, stands very well on its own.
You’re absolutely right on this one, Jonn. MOH’s aren’t blue ribbons you hang on pretty show horses for first prize.
Didn’t they give one to Lindbergh just for his flight?
Yes. But Lindbergh is hardly the only one to receive a MoH for noncombat actions.
Prior to World War II, the MoH could be awarded for noncombat activity. Not counting those revoked in the Army’s 1916 “purge” of 911 MoHs awarded for activities not involving distinguished service, a total of 193 persons were awarded the MoH for peacetime actions occurring prior to World War II. Most (but not all) were awarded for heroic acts.
Lindbergh was one of those individuals; US Army Major General Adolphus Greeley was a second. Lindbergh’s MoH was awarded for his transatlantic flight. Greely’s was a career award.
The remaining 191 personnel awarded the MoH during peacetime were USN/USMC personnel. The vast majority of those appear to have been awarded for heroism during shipboard incidents or possible/accidental drowning situations where the individual’s actions attempted to prevent or prevented greater loss of life.
For what it’s worth: CDR Richard Byrd, USN, and his pilot WO Floyd Bennett were likewise awarded the MoH for their flight over the North Pole in 1926.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients_during_peacetime
“Just for his flight?” Yeah, just for that. After all, flying across the Atlantic in a single engine aircraft is something so many of us have done. With no windshield. And very few instruments.
No big deal, right, C? 😉
OWB: Lindbergh’s MoH was essentially a political “feelgood” statement to recognize his accomplishment. It was awarded by special act of Congress vice the normal process.
He also appears to have received the DFC for the same act – which to me seems much more apropos.
http://projects.militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/recipient.php?recipientid=371
Lindbergh was also pro-nazi if I remember my history. That worked out well for us.
Impressive sure and worthy of recognition but not the Medal of Honor in my opinion. Certainly not when you consider the price others who wear the medal have paid. Just my two cents.
Looks like another case of a politician not understanding the culture. As I recall, it was a politician that started the whole CIB thing for MP CPT Linda Bray after Just Cause.
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1990/Female-Soldiers-Eligible-for-Decorations-but-not-Combat-Infantry-Badge/id-a0a1ca20c5526e5fdf387c4cdd1cb432
While I agree with all the sentiment that it’s neither necessary and more likely a reaction to his book, movie, and murder, there is lots of precedent, especially fighter pilots in WWII.
Look up Dick Bong, he was America’s most successful ace with 40 kills and was awarded the MOH for his final period of combat. In addition to Big Blue, he was also awarded the DSC, 2 Silver Star’s, 7 Distinguished Flying Cross’s, and 15 Air Medals.
And that was in WWII where there wasn’t a lot of medal inflation!
Air crew awards of the MOH tend to be for lower amounts of heroism than ground or naval awards due to the men not being under direct fire from as many sources. However, there are exceptions where aircrew displayed incredible by any standard heroism, like Henry Erwin.
And A1C Levitow
just looking at these I think most are every bit as heroic as ground or naval awards….
http://www.afhso.af.mil/afhistory/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=22041
Here’s Erwin’s full citation: http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/2728/erwin-henry-e.php
He was the radio operator of a B-29 airplane leading a group formation to attack Koriyama, Japan. He was charged with the additional duty of dropping phosphoresce smoke bombs to aid in assembling the group when the launching point was reached. Upon entering the assembly area, aircraft fire and enemy fighter opposition was encountered. Among the phosphoresce bombs launched by S/Sgt. Erwin, 1 proved faulty, exploding in the launching chute, and shot back into the interior of the aircraft, striking him in the face. The burning phosphoresce obliterated his nose and completely blinded him. Smoke filled the plane, obscuring the vision of the pilot. S/Sgt. Erwin realized that the aircraft and crew would be lost if the burning bomb remained in the plane. Without regard for his own safety, he picked it up and feeling his way, instinctively, crawled around the gun turret and headed for the copilot’s window. He found the navigator’s table obstructing his passage. Grasping the burning bomb between his forearm and body, he unleashed the spring lock and raised the table. Struggling through the narrow passage he stumbled forward into the smoke-filled pilot’s compartment. Groping with his burning hands, he located the window and threw the bomb out. Completely aflame, he fell back upon the floor. The smoke cleared, the pilot, at 300 feet, pulled the plane out of its dive. S/Sgt. Erwin’s gallantry and heroism above and beyond the call of duty saved the lives of his comrades.
On a silver lining side, If this actually goes through, at least his kids can get into one of the academies if they want. No appointments,no congress critters, no quotas, all they have to do is show up with straight As and say I’m Chris Kyle’s kid.
propsguy…I see your point. But I think if his kids show up in a Congress Critter’s office someday with a 4.0, athletics and civic achievements and say, “I’m Chris Kyle’s kid”, the Congress person will stamp it approved ASAP. Then do a press release of course.
Yep, I guaran-damn-tee that’s the way it would be.
🙂
Good point however, Chris Kyle’s dear children will have no problem. The offspring of such a man will be taken care of! The Navy SEAL Foundation and other like orgs will track them and help throughout their lives.
Oh and if it is mentioned, “Chief Chris Kyle is/was my dad” … I suspect rubber stamps will be flying to denote “accepted, promoted, pass without further examination, hired, etc …”
There is a rumor that kids of SEALs who are killed are taken care of by a large number of “uncles”. Like a dad would go to a game or teach a kid to do stuff – take him/her to a range, etc. Do you suppose that is true?
tangentially related – Interweb articles are saying “American Sniper” is about to become the #1 selling movie of the year.
I guess that explains why it did so well at the Academy Awards. Boobs.
This sort of reminds me of a local news story here in Kentucky about one Garlin Murl Conner whose wife is in a battle through the courts to get him a Medal of Honor. Despite multiple denials she is going forward last I heard. I can’t help but think if he were alive, he wouldn’t want her pursuing this at all.
I think he was put in for one and it was lost in the cracks or his DSC was going to be upgraded, I can’t remember the details.
I think the congressman’s time would be better used by introducing bills to:
a. Banish Jesse Ventura from the Republic of Texas in perpetuity and
b. Grant Chris Kyle’s estate immunity from civil or criminal trial for any actions, real or imagined, that occurred or did not occur during or after Chris’s lifetime, particularly when said events may or may not have involved altercations with persons who may or may not be celebrities, former state governors, professional wrestlers, former Navy divers or any combination thereof.
I just did an interview with The Hill on this subject. So thanks for all of your opinions and your support.
Maybe Williams is feeling guilty. He was born in 1949, so he was 18 in 1967. He didn’t enlist. He was drafted. It’s true. He was drafted in 1971. No, not that draft. 25th Round. 582nd overall pick. Atlanta Braves. Had a good first year in the rookie league (AAPY). Went down hill and was all done in 1973. Says today that he hurt his shoulder sliding into base. I don’t buy it, looking at his numbers. He just wasn’t pro good. Yeah, the MOH effort is bullshit. Williams calls Kyle a “model Texas citizen.” What’s that got to do with the MOH? Beats me. So, yeah, this is all bullshit. No question.
With no disrespect to Chris Kyle’s heroism I must say that once we politicize the MoH it will no longer mean what it has always meant. If we start allowing it to be awarded based on some congress members PR schemes, it will become about popularity and not about valor. I can imagine a time when some first term Representative from Colorado launching a campaign to award it to Bowe Burgdahl for his suffering while in the hands of the Taliban.
At one time (Civil War) it was used as a reenlistment inducement and several hundred were rescinded. It had become almost common place and was diluted to just another pretty ribbon. Congress has no place in the MOH process, at least in the initiation process. If congress wants to right a wrong, let um, but to politicize the man and the medal is beyond scurrilous.
Jonn, concur with your comments as well others here. Instead of the MOH maybe the congressman could start a scholarship fund in Kyle’s name for children of service members.
I’m proud of being a Texan, and serving my country for over 20 years (1969-1990)in the US Army. Politics is a dirty word behind the MOH request. Let the Brother rest in peace, if the Navy wanted him to have it they would have pursued it.
I agree with you,Jonn Lilyea, 100%.
I have not served in the military, but my father and husband were Vietnam vets and my mother-in-law and father-in-law were WWII vets not to mention all of my cousins and nephews that are serving or have served. Therefore, military service is nothing new to me.
Unfortunately there has been a lot of hype connected with Chris Kyle because of his book and the movie. Nothing against the man as I believe him to have been a great soldier doing his duty. But he was no different than my family that served or are serving. They were/are great soldiers too some of them serving in intelligence.
If Chris Kyle merited winning the Medal of Honor, then the Navy would have awarded him this medal not the President. My question to Rep. Roger Williams (R-Texas) is if you believe that Chris Kyle deserves the Medal of Honor why did you wait until all the publicity of Chris Kyle’s book and movie hit the public eye to bring this about? It’s all politics and it’s so very sad.
[…] troops blog This Ain’t Hell weighed in on a theme Friday. Army maestro Jonn Lilyea wrote that while he defends Kyle’s […]
Former Air Force 88 to 92, 49th TFW. ARMY brat birth to enlistment.
I am beside myself reading these comments from fellow military. I am not a fan of politicians by any stretch of the imagination and as a rule i do not trust them or their motives.
Uhm, folks, how many MOH’s have been awarded posthumously? This is a normal event in the MOH process. Who cares if it took a piece of literature to highlight the story? Who cares if the movie highlighted his story to millions more? How about the Huey pilot in the story shown in “We Were Soldiers” that may have contributed to him getting the MOH?
You can read the criteria in other parts of this thread. Soldiers who were presented with the MOH either eliminated a large number of enemies or saved a bunch of their brothers in arms. These actions were done at great personal risk.
How many times did Chris Kyle pull a trigger that subsequently resulted in compromising his position to save others?
The ONLY people who can properly say if he deserves the MOH are the investigators who would be given access to all of the official records or accounts. I get angrier the more I type.
If there is a MOH recipient that has responded to this thread, then i feel their insight into the conversation is valid. The rest of you saying that his story shouldnt be evaluated because you THINK its politically motivated…shame on you. The ideas on this thread have made it to the normal civilian news centers saying that Vets are against it…I am embarrassed.
Let the guys that he saved make that call.
Todd Egan
Tcegan@live.com
SEAL’s need no medals, SEAL’s want no medals. SEAL’s want all their teammates to come home safe and sound. Being a SEAL should say all there is to say.
Granted that there were combat actions that Chief Kyle accomplished that possibly could have warranted higher than a silver star. The mere fact that he came down from his perch and taught Marines how to clear buildings the SOCOM way, put him in greater harms way, save many lives, and perhaps taught the Navy and Marines that USMC “door knockers” need more specwar training than they get. But, SEAL command at the time should have recognized that and taken suitable action.
That being said, I agree with all of the above fine shipmates that voiced the simple truth; Chief Kyle would have been against it.
What you’re describing, sustained merit while under fire, sounds more like a Legion of Merit to me. Sure, it’s lower than the Silver Star, but based on your description, it sounds more appropriate.
I also think he would have been against it, especially if you read the narratives of past awardees. Makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up…
#ChrisKyle4Prez2016
LoL it is getting absurd.
[…] Blogger John Lilya agrees with Higbie: […]
[…] Army Sgt. First Class Jonn Lilyea, who founded the military blog “This Ain’t Hell,” doesn’t think Kyle should receive the honor, although he is worthy of it, simply […]
[…] Army Sgt. First Class Jonn Lilyea, who founded the military blog “This Ain’t Hell,” doesn’t think Kyle should receive the honor, although he is worthy of it, simply […]
Hey here’s an update. There is no update. The stunt was introduced by Williams on 26 Feb and his statement published in the Congressional Record the next day. The bill has had no action since it was referred to committee six weeks ago. House Resolution 1094 (“Chris Kyle Medal of Honor Act”)is its tag.
More important: The DVD release date for “American Sniper” is May 19th!
It’s streaming on Amazon now.
Correction: The bill has had no action since it was referred to committee about 10 weeks ago.
I may be mistaken but it seems to me that such actions like reading resolutions into the record so a politician can say he did something is not that uncommon. As far as the award being posthumous- I believe the record stands at 103 years before the award – Teddy Roosevelt received the MOH in 2001, long after he died in 1919, for the charge up San Juan Hill in 1898.
Re. Williams’ record – looks a lot to me like he graduated high school, was a 2S in college, and had a high draft number. Not uncommon…I was a 2HS, then a 2S, then 1A, then my number came up 336. A 1H classification was normally given to anyone whose number was above roughly 200. The way the system worked then.
Got no dog in this fight, just think there are reasonable explanations, especially for a Congressman whose district looks to have included Chris Kyle.