DHS warns of “right wing terrorism” again

| February 21, 2015

hutaree_militia

CNN reports that the Department of Homeland Security is back to warning law enforcement about the threat of “sovereign citizens” as terrorists.

A new intelligence assessment, circulated by the Department of Homeland Security this month and reviewed by CNN, focuses on the domestic terror threat from right-wing sovereign citizen extremists and comes as the Obama administration holds a White House conference to focus efforts to fight violent extremism.

Some federal and local law enforcement groups view the domestic terror threat from sovereign citizen groups as equal to — and in some cases greater than — the threat from foreign Islamic terror groups, such as ISIS, that garner more public attention.?

The Homeland Security report, produced in coordination with the FBI, counts 24 violent sovereign citizen-related attacks across the U.S. since 2010.

Well, I’ll agree to a point – sovereign citizens are a greater threat to law enforcement officers than Islamic extremists since the whole philosophy of the sovereign citizens hinges on resisting government authority and law enforcement officers are the public face of government authority. Islamic extremists tend towards attacking innocent people, like the Boston Marathon bombing and they generally avoid law enforcement.

But this particular report smells like a Southern Poverty Law Center fund raising drive, like all of the others;

Mark Potok, senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, said that by some estimates, there are as many as 300,000 people involved in some way with sovereign citizen extremism. Perhaps 100,000 people form a core of the movement, he said.

Yeah, well, there are approximately 5 million Muslims living in the US, but not all of them are a threat, Potok, so stop fear mongering with your numbers. I’m sure that not all 300,000 sovereign citizens are plotting against the government, even if your number is correct.

And, oh, by the way, DHS, just because the far, far, far right is plotting against the US government, that doesn’t mean that everyone to the right of the President is a terrorist. Just a reminder.

Potok says sovereign citizen groups have attracted support because of poor economic conditions. Some groups travel the country pitching their ideology as a way to help homeowners escape foreclosure or get out of debt, by simply ignoring the courts and bankruptcy law.

So, I guess the only way to cure right wing terrorism is to start a right-wing extremists jobs program. Quick, alert the State Department.

Category: DHS

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Brian

So, are you saying or are you not saying that this is a legitimate concern?

Extremism comes in all sorts of shades.

Sounds to me like you’re downplaying it.

Just sayin’.

Big Steve

Sounds to me like you are drinking the Kool Aid of the left, and their exaggerated claims of potential violence by “right wing” Christian religious and/or patriot groups.

Just sayin’

2/17 Air Cav

If he’s not I am. It is to be downplayed.

2/17 Air Cav

Come on Brian. Make your case. I’m in the mood. Also, if that doesn’t do it for you, here’s a worm: it is not merely terrorists or religious terrorists but Muslim terrorists that are, and ought to be, the concern of DHS.

Brian

Ahem, Waco?

Ahem, white extremist groups?

OKC?

It goes both ways.

There’s a middle ground here.

It’s not all Islam, Islam all the time. That’s ridiculous.

Why does it appear you’re taking offense if folks are stating “Hey, uh, we can’t forget about these other groups either guys.”

I’m white but I don’t take offense that there are happen to be some white trash groups out there that hate the man in office just because of the color of his skin. It is an issue… among many.

Again, middle ground… somewhere. Just sayin’.

Eric

Didn’t Waco and OKC happen back in the 90s?

I think I was even still in high school when Waco happened…

Any more recent significant actions Bri-man?

Brian

So what you’re saying is that that’s irrelevant?

You’ll disregard even the most recent report?

What does it take to prove that this is a legitimate issue?

I believe you as well are taking this a little lightly as well.

Again, moderation.

To disregard is foolish.

Brian

Get off my lawn!

Brian

(Hit enter too fast)

Brian

(Ugh twice in a row…really need an edit button)

There is no moral equivalance between a group that doesn’t like the tyrannical way our government acts in some cases, and Islamic terrorists. Pull your head out of your ass.

Terrorologist

Just out of curiosity, who did Waco attack?

Jacobite

‘Moral equivalence’ is an artificial construct in any case. There’s no such thing.

Try again.

Old Trooper

*sigh*

Ok; listen up, Brian. The most recent report is proffered by the same people that brought us the “report” about how all us military Veterans are potential domestic terrorists. The same report lumped in the New Black Panther Party with “right-wing extremist groups, or what they consider “right-wing extremists”. Southern Poverty Law Center is run and funded by morons. So; yes, we will ignore that report.

If you want to know what the real threat is, you could look at the latest missive from that “right-wing extremist” group Al-Shabab, who put out a communique, yesterday, calling on muslims to attack shopping centers and malls here in America and called out the Mall of America by name (quick fact; Minnesota has many, many radical muslims that have gone over to Somalia to fight with Al-Shabab and to the ME to fight with ISIS). So; if anyone needs to pull their head out of their ass, it’s the SPLC and anyone who gives their reports any credibility.

The Dead Man

Got any incidents in the last decade? What is voter intimidation from the Black Panthers, shooting and assaults by militant atheists, bomb plots by ows alumni for 500.

The point is, it’s inflated numbers to stir shit. They can be a threat, but so are so many others.

Smitty

Waco wasnt terrorists, your FU@!ing retard. They were isolationists. Heaven forbid someone wants to be left alone, let’s attack them with the atf and call them the bad guys. So your claim of far right threat is that people will want the government to leave them alone too much instead of relying on the government? That is only a threat in 1984. anarchists aren’t attacking people, they are just leaving your government hand holding programs. You can enjoy your big brother government all you want, I’ll keep my liberty, which apparently makes me a terrorist threat now

DrKnow

Never thought I would see someone defending the actions of David Koresh. I guess if you stick around long enough you will see anything!

Anthony

Waco was the government over reacting to folks whose ways were different and wanted nothing to do with the feds. Instead of knocking on the door and conducting an investigation, the feds rolled in with armored vehicles and started shooting. What I saw on the news as it was happening is not the official story now.

OKC? Two or three people taking action against what they view an an overbearing government counts as an extremist group to you?

You got anything a bit more recent or involving more people other than the government mantra of “right wing extremists”?

TacticalTrunkMonkey

Don’t forget Ruby Ridge. Once again, the government overreaching.

Thunderstixx

Hey brian… Go fuck yourself you piece of shit racist. You and all your liberal butt buddies can suck my dick with your fucked up lying holier than thou attitude… The home of modern day terrorism in the US is in the dem party. Their racism continues to strike at the heart of stable black families. Thousands more young black males are killed every fucking year by other young black males than all of the “Right Wing” terror groups combined since LBJ began the destruction back in the 60’s. You stupid lib dems continue to ignore the plight of those young black males and have no qualms about letting them continue to kill each other every single day. And then you have the fucking gall to call us terrorists and racists… I can only hope that each and every one of you useless cocksuckers is called to the judgement of God for turning your backs on the real plight of the Black families and the millions of Black babies aborted each and every year. 60% of all black babies in NYC are killed just so you liberal dems can feel good about yourselves… The only organized terrorism in the US is from the dems and the race pimps like Sharpton, Jackson, people like you and all the members of the media that fanned the flames of fake racism of one white cop against a young black male that did everything he could possibly think of in that rotted, drug addled brain of his to to get himself killed. His family is the ones that started him down that path by his baby momma and baby daddy ignoring him so they can go out and get more drugs, alcohol and whatever else they could think of. The riots there and the continued attacks on white people in St Louis are truly terrorism organized by a complicit media and governmental power structure led by the biggest racist that has ever walked the halls of the White House in the history of the United States. And they blame us for terrorism… Well brian… Read more »

JohnE

There is a well reasoned and thought out response if I ever read one. Wow…just wow…

The Other Whitey

Brian, I am a “right-wing extremist,” according to the illustrious SPLC. Why? Because I own guns, am a registered Republican, am a heterosexual white male, I would prefer to pay less taxes, and I’m a practicing Roman Catholic Christian. Thus, they frequently declare me a foaming-at-the-mouth klan-hooded neo-nazi. Never mind the fact that I don’t have a bigoted bone in my body, am married to a woman who’s definitely not white, am the father of a mixed-race child (my baby girl is the absolute center of my universe), that I have zero criminal record, or that I’m a (state) government employee myself. I own lots of guns, and am proficient with all of them. So what? I like guns. Guess what I’ve never, ever done: shot somebody! Never pointed a gun at anybody, either. Why not? Because I was always taught to never point a weapon at something I’m not willing to kill. I have not yet encountered a human being face-to-face whom I was willing to end at that moment. I like guns. I hunt. I’m safe. I don’t hurt or threaten to hurt others. So it’s nobody else’s business and those who don’t like it can kindly leave me the hell alone. I’m Catholic. That means I’m pro-life and anti-gay marriage. And guess what? One of my good friends is a lesbian in a committed relationship with another female, and they have a kid. I strongly disapprove of their lifestyle. I do not hold it against them. Among the people I love and/or hold in high esteem are other Catholics, various flavors of Protestant (including my wife), Mormons, Buddhists (like my in-laws), atheists, agnostics, pagans, and even a few moslems. Their faith is between them and God, and none of my business. And we get along great, even have cordial theological discussions from time to time. I would like to pay less taxes. Wouldn’t you? I am White, specifically German-Irish, 50/50. My wife is Cambodian, with a little bit of Chinese in the family tree. I have a Vietnamese sister-in-law. My brothers-in-law are, respectively, Black, Filipino, and Armenian.… Read more »

11B-Mailclerk

Because you do not fear them, not in an “Obey your betters” sense, anyway.

Big Steve

The DHS, SPLC, and similar guardians of our “welfare,” always quiver and wring their hands over these types of armed patriot movements.
These movements are almost exclusively comprised of white guys, and since we are the root of all evil, the govt and liberal groups act as if the sky is falling.

But we have Somalians, Bosnians, and various other muslim immigrants, illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America coming in droves.
And the watchdog groups and media have no problem with that. I am also told that the white, armed patriot groups are infiltrated and monitored by law enforcement to an unreasonable degree, while limited effort is directed at some more scary religious and minority groups.

butch

Which groups are easier for the FEEBS to infiltrate? 🙂

Like the drunk looking for his car keys under the street light because the light is better.

Brian

The question was posed to you.

One would be a fool to dismiss *any* extremist groups.

A few of the commenters here (who I’ll bet are white) seem to play this out like they’re persecuted. That’s laughable.

There’s a middle ground here… somewhere, but you won’t find that in the aforementioned comments.

Again, just sayin’.

Brian

Perhaps you should be more clear next time.

Brian

Well then, as stated previously, at least try to be more clear… and answer the question.

Do you not think that this is a legitimate concern?

My observation was that you are taking this lightly and that the way you chose to write this was ambiguous.

So, defend your position or in this case rather, clarify.

Eden

Ummm. . . Brian, YOU are the only one here who “misunderstood”.

Smitty

Im not white, and I am a boarder line anarchist. Right wing extremists are secluded isolationists, not terrorists. They don’t care if anyone else comes to their way of life, because they want to be left alone. The biggest threat that right wing extremists pose, is that they stop paying taxes and the government can’t redistribute their wealth.

Ex-PH2

Oh, dontcha just love it when the trollbait throws in racist crap as bait?

Seriously, that doesn’t just weaken your position, you imbecile. It destroys it.

Guess what MY skin color is, asshole. Guess. Go on. I dare you. I double dog dare you, shitface.

Brian

Or… answer the question?

Just sayin’.

Brian

This writer doesn’t think you were clear enough.

=D

Brian

Ambiguous is the word.

My opinion however.

TF Black Recruiting Section

Please do not encourage the dutcvh rudder club to enter this fray….

…just saying….(what a stupid comment)

Brian

Don’t get mad because you can’t or refuse to clarify. I read your post, several times and it’s very ambiguous. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is it or is it not a legitimate concern?

I get it, no opinions allowed here. Neither dissent.

I thought otherwise but I guess I was very mistaken.

Ex-PH2

What is unclear about the post? Be specific. You are doing nothing but complaining because you have short attention span deficit disorder. When someone has to explain every little thing to you, it’s no the author of the piece at fault, shithead.

It’s you, BRIAN, YOU ARE STUPID.

Jacobite

“I get it, no opinions allowed here. Neither dissent.

I thought otherwise but I guess I was very mistaken.”

You’re still here?

Hey look guys, he thinks someone here cares! Bwahahahaha.

Eden

“I get it, no opinions allowed here. Neither dissent.”

You ain’t been around here long, have you?

SFC D

You ain’t from around here, are ya son..

Jacobite

“This writer doesn’t think you were clear enough.”

So?

Lol

Jusaying

just saying….

Jusaying

No, I’M just saying.

Jusaying

NO dude, I’M just saying….quit stealing my line.

11B-Mailclerk

say what?

11B-Mailclerk

Okay.

What.

Toasty Coastie

Hey Brian~
Please grow up and act like an adult…You could “possibly” be an interesting guy to bounce things around with but your “just saying” makes you sound like a tween and not worth the interactions or conversations of Veterans who fought for this Country….

2/17 Air Cav

Well then, I guess I’ll have to just argue with myself. In 2009 the government (DHS) released a report warning of the threat potentially posed by Veterans. Janet (He-Man) Napolitano herself criticized that report, according to CNN. No shit. But that’s old news. And so is the evidence of domestic terror wrought by sovereign citizens. There was, according to CNN, an incident in 2012 in which police officers were killed by a nut. The following year a TSA employee was killed at LAX by another nut. The DHS report concludes that there have been “24 violent sovereign citizen-related attacks across the U.S. since 2010.” 24? Dollars to donuts that number includes domestic killings in which the killer or victim were sovereign citizen types. In any event, the number is miniscule and quick math will tell you that the number averages a hair less than six per year and a hair under ½ an event per state. It’s actually ludicrous to put it in the same universe with ISIS and other Muslim acts of terror. But, I guess it makes certain people feel good to do so, to suggest that Muslims ought not be singled out.

Brian

Thanks for the citations which proves a point. Just because those numbers don’t satisfy one’s expectations of “true terrorism” doesn’t mean we should just let it go, right?

What of the incident in Minneapolis (correct?) where an old codger shot up a few people.

What’s with the he-man? Is this par for the course around here, name calling?

2/17 Air Cav

I guess you never listened to Janet. She makes Janet Reno sound hot. And what’s that “old codger” business if not name calling, by the way.

What are you, 12? The citations proved a point all right, that the several incidents since 2010 are not worth mentioning, however tragic they might have been for the victims’ loved ones.

Dave Hardin

You forgot to mention Ruby Ridge. That event where the extreme right wind family was such a threat to national security the shot a woman holding her infant. Wasnt that because the guy was coerced into selling a shot gun?

No Brian, we should not ignore extremest activities from any side. Yes there have been right wind groups that have committed crimes.

The inference that these groups pose the same kind of threat to our security as ISIS is ridiculous.

Country Singer

“Wasnt that because the guy was coerced into selling a shot gun?”

IIRC, convinced by an undercover agent to saw off a shotgun to an illegal length, then sell it to him. Then arrested and charged and downhill from there. UC was planted based on Weaver supposedly being associated with some extremist group.

Brian

Hey Toasty, thanks for the compliments and for continuing the conversation.

I take it questions aren’t allowed?

No hearty discussions permissable in these parts?

So, in that case, let’s just resort to insults because that’s really productive.

And by the way, I am still serving and have seen a thing or two. Did I make it into your good graces yet? I know, I have to possess the same opinion as you to do so, right?

Nothing wrong with a little dry humor.

Kthanks! lolz!

See what I did there?

I asked a question and felt I haven’t gotten an adequate response.

Finally… wait for it… just sayin’.

Eric

There are plenty of things that are of “concern” but that has nothing to do with actually prioritizing what the administration spends their time on.

There are bigger priorities to deal with than a group that is less than 1% of the populace.

If there were car bombs daily, or IEDs going off because of that >1% in the US, then so be it.

Chris Garner was a “left-wing extremist” who killed people. Where on SPLC and DHS’ list of “concerns” are left-wing extremists at? How many of them are there? I’m sure they are out there, even if you don’t count all the college professors who have “tenure.”

Toasty Coastie

@Brian~
Apparently your reading comprehension needs a refresher course. No where did I say questions or discussion wasn’t permitted..Nor did I insult you as you just did me. I said you sound like a tween by continuously using the phrase “just sayin”. I also have not contributed an opinion on this article yet so where you get that you have to “posses the same opinions as I do” again calls into question your reading comprehension abilities.
So on that note, I will stand by what I did actually say and that is you sound like a tween using vernacular that is ridiculous for an adult and therefore I will not engage with you as I’m not in the mood to trade insults with a person who is struggling to relive his tween years and is being contrary and argumentative just for the sake of it.

Oh and by the way, Sgt. Lilyea did answer your questions multiple times…again your reading comprehension is questionable.

~OUT~

Brian

It was implied. You didn’t have to be explicit.

You mad bro?

Oh come on, you know I have to type it again.

Just sayin’.

Old Trooper

Toasty Coastie is a girl. So is Ex-PH2.

Just because you don’t get the answers you’re looking for doesn’t mean that answers weren’t given. Racist/race baiting remarks will be ignored, also.

In a nutshell; we’re more concerned with co-ordinated lone wolf/small group attacks by radical muslim extremists, at this point, than wringing our hands about a report put together by a bunch of morons that couldn’t find their ass with both hands and a GPS. Remember; Ft. Hood, Little Rock, Boston Bombing, Benghazi, etc. were all done by radical muslims after receiving calls from higher ups in their respective radical muslim groups.

DrKnow

Sorry, Have to throw my hat in the ring. While I agree that those are examples of radical Islamic Extremism, what about the 2011 Tucson Shooting and Eric Frein the Pennsylvania sniper. Both are recent examples of homegrown domestic terrorism.

I believe the issue with this report that most of TAH readers are having, myself included, is the term Right Wing Extremists. I think some of the TAH community (well probably more than some 😉 ) would consider ourselves far right and therefore take major issue with being called Terrorists. But, I do not believe that the writers of this report would consider that most of the TAH community to fall under that term. Being politically conservative, a gun owner and a free thinker does not a terrorist make. I believe the writers of this report were looking farther down the spectrum, to what even many of the TAH community would probably call “wackos”.

There is a difference between an isolationist and a terrorist, and I do not believe it is bad for the LE community to keep a watchful eye out for malcontents that intend to do people harm. People like Eric Fein should be stopped before they kill people.

Hondo

You do realize that (1) Jared Loughner was leftist/anarchist vice right-wing (and was also apparently obviously mentally disturbed), and (2) while Frein’s political leanings are unclear, he showed odd behavior similar in some ways to that of Loughner – right?

Best I can tell, neither of them are known to have been affiliated with any “right-wing” groups; both were apparently mentally “off” (and in Loughner’s case, highly disturbed). Ergo, both are irrelevant to any discussion of why DHS appears to be fixated on the miniscule threat posed by “right-wing” extremists vice the manifestly more serious demonstrated threat posed by other groups. They appear to have been kooks who turned violent, not part of some “vast, right-wing conspiracy”.

Further: the discussion here concerns DHS, not the “LE community”. While it is proper for local LE to keep an eye on locak kooks and crazies like Loughner and Frein (and in each case, they failed miserably), it is NOT the proper role for Federal LE to attempt to keep tabs on every “disturbed” individual in the nation. We do not need Federal authorities keeping tabs on ordinary citizens without good cause; from there, it’s about 2 short steps to a truly nasty police state.

Were I being cynical, I could say that this Administration was fixating on a nonexistent right-wing threat at the expense of real threats as a way of deflecting attention from their failings elsewhere, or for political reasons. But I’ll refrain from saying that – for now.

DrKnow

Hondo- You’re right about J. Loughner, prior to his radicalization (or just going batshit crazy) he had been described as having liberal views, but I have also found accounts of people who knew him as being neither Left or Right. As for the two of them being mentally “off” I would say that is a given, but I would also hypothesize that anyone willing to associate with, or claim their actions are in the name of such extremist groups such as ISIS or Al Qaeda would fall under the same definition of “off”. To this point, I have always found it a bit of a stretch when an obviously disturbed person commits an act of terrorism on American soil and then claims the actions in the name of Islam/IS/Al Qaeda. Just because someone says something is in the name of something else doesn’t mean it’s an action of that group (even if they are more than happy to take the credit). Sometimes I believe we give unjustified credence to these attacks by talking about what these fn loonies believe in. (Like I personally believe that the Tsarnaev Brothers were just fn crazy, and while they claim their actions in the name of Islam, they have no known connections to any known terrorist groups). Another example of what I believe the report was getting at would be someone like Wade Michael Page, the Neo-Nazi that murdered 6 people outside of a Sikh Temple. The purpose of the report was that not only is there dangers abroad posed by extremist groups, but that their are crazy people in extremist groups here too. And, that these members of these groups pose a threat to us as a whole, and require closer monitoring. I think that is a point that we can both agree on. I will also note that while I haven’t delved super deep into each example (partly due to time, and partly because I honestly that this thread has become a bit of an echo chamber and its not worth the effort), it was stated by CNN that the FBI provided… Read more »

Hondo

Regarding that DHS report – one of the other commenters has seen it. It’s apparently quite a slipshod, half-assed document.

http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=58370&cpage=1#comment-2475603

A cynical person might be say it was crafted as a political “hit piece” vice a serious attempt to document an actual threat.

DrKnow

Nice punt!

Hondo

Not a punt. Merely an observation that that “report” had already been evaluated and found to be, well, at best an unprofessional effort – and at worst, and intentional hit piece with political motivations.

I mean really: 24 examples claimed, but only 10 actually discussed? And no sources cited other than “media reports” that were not further identified? Geez. That’s not even middle-school-level scholarship, much less good analysis.

You might be OK with that level of research and analysis. I’m more inclined to dismiss it out-of-hand as crap.

DrKnow

Oh it was a punt, and a beauty at that. 65 yards and within the 10 yard line!

Even with the minimum of 4 reports that Country Singer says were outlined and cited with “media reports” that still leave 4 examples of domestic terrorism since 2010 that can be attributed to far right wing groups or their members. That’s an attack a year (I am leaving out 2015 because, well the report was probably completed in late 2014). I would say that constitutes a realistic threat, one equal to that of ISIS at this point in time.

GDContractor

” (Like I personally believe that the Tsarnaev Brothers were just fn crazy, and while they claim their actions in the name of Islam, they have no known connections to any known terrorist groups).”

Except for that pesky little trip to Dagestan…
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324059704578473160866108832

How bout that nut that beheaded that woman in an Oklahoma meat packing plant. Wasn’t he Repubican? Church of Christ as I recall.

DrKnow

GDContractor-
I think you may need to re-read that article. If anything it shows that he didn’t really have contact with anybody of importance. A guy that knew a guy.

Also, with regards to Alton Nolen, I think that exactly proves my point. Just because some crazy person decides to try and convert people to Islam (or whatever he thought Islam is) and then beheads them doesn’t make him a member of ISIS.

Old Trooper

You mean kinda like the dude in Detroit that asked people at the bus stop if they were muslims and when they answered no; he stabbed them??

DrKnow

Yes. Exactly like that.

Ex-PH2

‘Sometimes I believe we give unjustified credence to these attacks’ – My two cents on this is that the media starts down that road the very moment a report comes to them. They look for anything, and, as we have seen, sometimes fabricate their explanation, because it makes the story more sensational. They’ve reduced themselves to the level of tabloids. It’s called ‘yellow journalism.’

Commissioner Wretched

Uh, Brian …

In this post you said, “It was implied. You didn’t have to be explicit.”

Yet earlier, in responding to Jonn, you said, “Say what you mean and mean what you say.”

Just pointing out your own little discrepancy there, son.

Eden

“You mad, bro?” “Just sayin'”

Quit with the cutesy memes already. That’s for teenagers. We’re seasoned military veterans here.

It isn’t your opinions that we object to, it’s your attitude.

A Proud Infidel®™

Brian, you don’t have a clue. Toasty Coasty attacks like a lioness on a prey animal when someone is stupid enough to tick her off, she can peel paint of a battleship by cussing at it! Ex-PH@ can do the same as well as other Lionesses of TAH®™, you’re out of your league JUNIOR!

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

We here don’t reply in full to those who don’t completely read and comprehend. Further, we are not impressed nor amused with the race baiting.

Eric

So what they are saying is, we should be concerned about less than 1% of the populace being “extremist” at this point?

There are more many people who’s taxes are screwed up as of the “friday night news dump” (800,000) that they used to tell everyone about it, than there are right-wing extremists. Lots of people actually do rely on that tax refund to pay for things.

Further, I find it ironic that the “administration” will IDENTIFY “right-wing” extremists, but won’t identify “Islamic extremists” as such.

And that has nothing to do with the color of my skin Brian. (I’m also part middle eastern by the way, you find the strangest things in your genealogy when you go looking.)

Brian

What I am saying is that the numbers are likely bigger than you or I think they are for all shades of extremism.

Let’s stick to the issue (ie not healthcare).

Bottom line and I think most can agree, it’s not healthy to disregard because of what we think is a “1%” threat. Even if it was less than 1%, a .00001% can cause a lot of hurt. We would be foolish to forget history, even if it was in the 90’s.

2/17 Air Cav

You really are 12, aren’t you?

2/17 Air Cav

Ah, was that a McVeigh reference? Is that where you’re going buster? Hey, the 20TH(!) anniversary of that horrible event is in two months.

Brian

What you’re really saying is that if someone disagrees with you, they’re 12.

Nicely done.

If only insults actually won arguments.

Brian

@the other Brian

2.9% of the adult population is in prison in the USA, so yeah I’m not too worried about 1% being a problem. Seems like we already have to watch out for about 3% of our population already at any given time. Simple solution to preventing inflated body accounts if something does occur is to ARM the general population. Of course Americans being armed is what looney libtards hate, and they feel that just owning a gun makes them a criminal or terrorist. You’re reaching so hard for SERIOUS non muslim terrorist threats you might pull something.

Brian

*2.9% prison, parole, probation, or jail.

Brian

They say it’s a possible threat. I believe they have a point.

Not the only threat obviously.

The author for the entry implied it wasn’t a serious threat. I disagree. So does the DHS. I’ll take the professionals opinion over someone who just wants to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.

Smitty

You will take politicized talking points from an administration that refuses to acknowledge Muslim terrorists over the educated opinion of someone they are calling a terrorist threat? They are saying I am a threat, Jonn is a threat, PI, ex-ph, and many others here are a threat simply because we don’t buy into their politics. find me a threat from anarchists, any act at all of violence committed in the name of being left alone. You have brought up Waco, but ran away from that one fast. I heard Ruby Ridge mentioned, another act of government terrorism against people that wanted to be left alone. So show me any time that people wanting to be left alone caused harm to someone

Eric

huh?

Brian

“looney libtards…”

11B-Mailclerk

Too many folks just redefine “terrorist” as “opposing what/who I like”, or “opposed to a particular authority”.

If getting violent with law enforcement equals terrorism, why exclude all the gang members that routinely get violent when arrested? Or afterwards, given the slightest change? Oops, doesn’t fit the “right wing terrorist” narrative.

See, the goal is to associate “right wing” with “terrorist”, and thus avoid “terrorist” for any other group. (Say, Jihadis)

I am not seeing a likelihood of someone walking up to me and asking me if I am sovereign, then stabbing me if I do not answer in the affirmative.

Counterpoint: violently resisting court enforcement of bankruptcy (or any other action) is not per-se “terrorism”.

Just because you are afraid of someone, does not make them a “terrorist”.

Oh, and “Waco” was not remotely terrorism. it was a bungled showboat operation. Any half-competent E-4 could have planned how to bag Koresh. Wait for their well-known Pizza night and have a handful of local Sherriff’s deputies, with whom he routinely cooperated, bag him and his close associates at checkout. Perhaps another quick ruse to draw out his other significant sub-leaders, bagged at a traffic stop. The rest are then relatively easy to roll up, left without their accustomed charismatic leadership.

But the goal was not a peaceful bagging of a zealot and crew. The goal was to justify bigger budgets.

Koresh was a dipshit, not a “terrorist”. Also not “right wing”, as he and his crew practiced a form of collectivism, a hallmark of, wait for it, the left.

Spare me the administration’s trolling. Jihadis are far more threat to western civilization and the USA, by proven body count and proven goals of enslavement, than the handful of loudly disgruntled and typically dysfunctional ding-dongs presented as the next widespread major threat.

Sparks

Word

SGT Ted

^^THIS^^

A Proud Infidel®™

The feds ONLY used a CEV, a Combat Engineer Vehicle used by the US Army at the time, basically an M60 battle tank refit with extra winches and a 205mm gun capable of launching a 65 lb charge of C4 up to 925 meters away!

Sparks

“focuses on the domestic terror threat from right-wing sovereign citizen extremists and comes as the Obama administration holds a White House conference to focus efforts to fight violent extremism.”

My issue…Obama is quick to jump on the bandwagon of “domestic extremists” and stopping them but can’t seem to open his mouth an utter a bad word about Islamic Extremists or even call them what they are. Why? In my mind, it is because Obama is a Muslim at heart and will defend them to the end. Nidal Malik Hasan…workplace violence according to the administration. The Boston Marathon bombers…well, lets not be too quick to call them domestic Muslim terrorists. American idiots in the wood with guns who may truly want to overthrow the government, they MUST BE STOPPED NOW! Again, in my mind, as with all things Obama, everything is upside down and backwards. Much easier to look like he’s doing something about extremists by targeting these domestic groups than deal with the real threat from Islamic extremists here and abroad.

Ex-PH2

Why? Because, Sparks, bodaprex has a knack for saying and doing the wrong thing on regular basis, for one thing. That’s one answer. He doesn’t give a flying fart in space about the job, as David Axelrod has already said. He just plain does not care. This part: just because the far, far, far right is plotting against the US government, that doesn’t mean the rest of us are. Well, you always have people who hate any form of government, no matter how benign it might be. They’d whine if they had 100% access free of charge to a private beach, because the crabs are out and have taken over the beach. There’s always a miserable sod some place. So this Brian person who is doing his impotent best to bait people here is trying to make a few individuals look as bad as 20,000 ISers who have overrun large parts of Syria and Iraq. In fact, some common sense tells you that those are bad comparisons. And why this (lack of administration) refuses to call a spade a spade is beyond me, but the excuse is that doing so will ‘recognize’ them in some way and make them legit. Well, they’ve already declared themselves a caliphate, so according to their rules, they ARE legit. You will always have individuals who are assholes, and see either side of the political fence as a threat. No matter which side they’re on, the other is the bad side. David Koresh was a criminal and a pedophile, just like Jim Jones was. Since that was broadcast live on TV, to boost ratings for the networks, I got to watch a bunch of damned fools completely fuck up what could have been a simple arrest with no one getting hurt or dying. When you, Brian, tell me the point to sending a tank to wreck that building, maybe I’ll pay attention. Well, maybe not, because there was no point to it. It was one of the stupidest moves I’ve ever seen someone make. It proved, in spades, that the moron-in-charge was completely incompetent. Ditto… Read more »

OWB

So, Brian comes here, acts like a troll, then objects to being treated like a troll? Well, OK then. Pardon us, Brian, but the adults in the room have better things to do than pretend your demands should have any impact in our lives.

Meanwhile, extremists are always dangerous. Always have been and likely always will be. Not a difficult concept.

Just wondering if the folks who define “sovereign citizen” are the same people who act like this is not a sovereign country whose borders should be protected. If they are, how can one be a sovereign citizen of a country which is not sovereign? In other words, is it even possible to have sovereign citizens without a sovereign country?

Brian

Ridiculous.

I asked a question and expressed my opinion.

The writer seemed to not take it seriously. I asked him to clarify and he answered my question with more questions.

If your definition of a troll is one who expresses an opinion and asks another to defend his stance… that leaves a lot to be desired. That’s not a troll.

I won’t apologize for having an opinion on this matter. In fact, I feel pretty moderate on the issue where it seems the readership isn’t here.

I guess I was mistaken that folks would be professional here. Bombastic responses and name calling is what I’ve read.

Ex-PH2

If you don’t like the room, no one is forcing you to stay, simpleton.

Brian

Oh, I like the blog and I appreciate the facebook feed as well. I appreciate exposing the frauds also, it’s good stuff.

I was surprised by all the right wing nut-baggery going on. “Purge the WH” type talk (did they consider voting? they do know this is a democracy, right?)

BUT, the one with the greatest insults doesn’t necessarily win the argument.

What I do read here is a bunch of whining and moaning about how much they hate this and that. They call that seagull leadership, where they swoop in and take a shit and leave. Bitch, whine, moan, and in your case: throw insults.

If you don’t like my comments, no one is forcing you to read them either.

Your insults are pretty good however and it may keep me coming back.

Country Singer

” they do know this is a democracy, right?”

Actually, it’s a Representative Republic, not a democracy. Basic civics much?

Eden

Check that. Constitutional Republic.

Ex-PH2

‘Right wing nutbaggery’? That’s the best you can do?

Oh, dear God! I gave you far too much credit, when I said you have the intellectual depth of a Krispy Kreme donut.

I was wrong. Krispy Kreme donuts are actually smarter than you are. Saying that you’re dumber than a bag of hammers is an insult to hammers.

You may think that being a smug, smarmy, self-serving little splinter in Satan’s hairy black ass is a clever move on your part, but frankly, even goats know better than to annoy those who milk them.

No, Brian, this isn’t about insults. It is simply to let you know that as a mugwump twink trying to bait those who post here, you fail badly.

You are, in fact, so stupid you don’t even know you’re alive.

Brian

Just as so as on the far left.

Twink? Haha, ok, I’ll take it.

Ex-PH2

English grammar, dimwit!

Do you know how to use it? Is this vapid and inadequate response supposed to be a retort?

Do you know what a mugwump is? No, you don’t. It’s much more insulting than ‘twink’, which is half of ‘twinkie’, a cream-filled piece of empty calorie yellow cake.

Oh, yes – you’re boring, too.

streetsweeper

“Profeesional”, hm…..why does your response style appear to fit the profile of someone from “Talking Points Memo” “Tea Party Muckrakers”? In fact, I’m going to SWAG it and say you are from “Tea Party Muckrakers”. And, if I recall right Brian, there were two of you that were tangling with conservative groups…doing all you could to make them look back and then publish comments on your blog.

Brian

You recall incorrectly.

Thanks for playing. Try again.

2/17 Air Cav

There are many, many hits on the DHS report when one Googles it, but guess what? The ONLY source for the report is CNN. That sucks. I was so hoping that DHS had published it or that there would be a link somewhere to it. But no, the only report that claims to have seen the report is CNN. Everyone else is merely quoting CNN’s story. I really want to see those 24 claimed events and what the DHS includes.

Country Singer

I’ve seen the report and it’s sketchy at best. It claims 24 events, documents about ten. Of those ten or so, at least six are documented as “according to media reports” without any attribution or sourcing to the “media reports” in question. There is buried at the bottom of the report an annotation that while most of the information was from “media reports,” there was no reason to question the accuracy or validity of those reports.

Ex-PH2

I take it that this is CNN doing its gossipy best to stir up trouble where there is none, then?

A Proud Infidel®™

CNN hyping things for ratings? PERISH THE THOUGHT!! /sarc 😀

Brian

They all do it.

Country Singer

Pretty much. Given the fact that CNN is the only outlet to have seen the report, my guess is it was handed to them, along with their usual marching orders.

A Proud Infidel®™

Ah, so they were doing what they were told to with some talking points handed to them like MSDNC and other liberal media pustules do!

Eric

Hey, don’t bag on CNN too much. They are stuck in a tough spot after all.

The Clinton News Network has to make nice sometimes with the Barry Administration.

2/17 Air Cav

Yeah, that sounds about right. Thanks for the poop.

butch

They’re prepping the battle space, uh, I mean operating environment.

Ex-PH2

Well, according to the FBI’s page on ‘sovereign citizens’, they are mostly a bunch of semi-anarchic scum who commit fraud on a regular basis, clog up the courts with drivel (sound familiar?), refuse to pay taxes, and issue fraudulent documents and charge oodles of cash for it, and so on.

The list is long, but they’re really more involved in criminal fraud than extremism, which is a completely different item.

To make it simple for Brian the Stupid, the Mosaic Code, aka Ten Commandments, was cooked up as a means of keeping people on a moral level of behavior. They’re pretty straightforward and easy to understand.

The whole ‘sovereign citizen’ bunch would see these simple rules as b-a-a-ad, period.
Basically, they just don’t like any rules or any government of any kind whatosever.

Frankly, I think they need to have their very own planet so that the rest of us can go back to making cookies and planning spring trips to the forest preserve to shoot the goldfinches and the trilliums.

A Proud Infidel®™

Brian talks like a college freshman at the most. AS TO the “Sovereign Citizens”, I say exile them to some island or planet alongside the moonbat hippies and see just who survives!

11B-Mailclerk

That would be a heck of a “reality” TV show. I should have copyrighted this instead of posting.

The Island of Misfit Ideologies – Deathmatch

Ex-PH2

Proud, Frankie says ‘hi’, and I figured out how the good guy manages to kill off the bad guys in a quick and nasty way without damaging the environment in the process.

A Proud Infidel®™

Thanks Ex-PH2, I’ll have to “holler” at him sometime soon, it’s been awhile!

Eric

I think Brian passed out from the ‘shrooms after he responded to my post up above a while ago. I’m still not even sure what the hell he was saying. (See “huh?” above)

Ex-PH2

Well, I want to add one last thing about the legitimacy of ISIS. I said, they’ve declared themselves a caliphate, which by their rules makes them a legitimate group.

However – and this must be clearly understood – the entire goal of a caliph (head of the caliphate) is to continue to acquire territory or he must be purged. This is in THEIR rules, not something that I made up on the spur of the moment. This means that if al-Baghdadi, the current caliph, stops all efforts to expand ISIS territory, he can be executed for failing to obey the rules of the caliphate.

Look back into history, all of it, and you’ll see that the expansion included all of the north African coast, up into Europe as far as Paris, Sicily, parts of Italy, Turkey and northward into central Asia, aka Asia Minor.

Despite the efforts of the Crusades, the caliphate was never completely driven out, because its remnants still existed in the Balkans – remember that business? – and they still exist in countries like Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Macedonia, Tajikistan, Chechnya, Georgia, etc. It reaches as far east as the Uighurs in China. Where did the Tsarnaev brothers come from – you know, those Boston Marathon bombers?

Do I need to go any further with this?

Denying the reality that is ISIS as an expansionist terrorist group by refusing to use the word ‘legitimate’ in connection with them is a complete denial of reality. They are simply continuing to follow the path that was set in place centuries ago. They ARE a legitimate group, whether that asshole in the Oval Office likes it or not.

In addition, an asinine phony report cobbled together by a dipstick wannabe ‘network’ like CNN is NOT verification of anything at all. It is twaddle.

That’s all I have to say.

Big Steve

Damn, PH-2. This is a really good explanation of past and current realities.
You are certainly up on this stuff.

The history of the Barbary pirates (Ottoman, muslim Turks) and their raids and kidnappings/enslavement of up to a million white Christian Europeans, was a shocking thing for me to learn about.
Needless to say, none of this history is taught in our schools.

Ex-PH2

That’s strange, Big Steve, because the entire history of the Middle East WAS taught as part of World History when I was in school. And by ‘school’, I mean 1st through 12th grades and then college. I had a stamp collection that included stamps from Azerbaijan a long time ago.

Nothing was white-washed the way it is now, so I guess that telling lies to try to generate some sort of guilt trip is okay, then? That explains why one of my relatives took her kids out of public school.

On the other hand, the map of the world was redrawn at the end of WWI, and any REAL history books include ancient boundaries and show how they changed over millenia.

Brian

There’s 2 Brians here by the way. I was the very first one to ask the question. The one you replied to isn’t me.

Name calling… sorry, won’t do it. Have at it but it doesn’t help with a productive conversation.

I was severely mistaken on the readership here.

Take care.

Ex-PH2

I wasn’t answering you, you moronic twit.

However, I will give you an opinion, so pay attention, fleabait.

You have the intellectual depth of a Krispy Kreme donut, IF that. It may be, in fact, the KK donuts have more depth than you do.

You live in a protected, uncontested environment in which no one is allowed to have an opinion except you, and should anyone choose to disagree with you, he’s just a horrible, horrible, dreadful, bad person.

You GOT answers to your questions, you hag-ridden, mullion-eyed, sheep-biting scullion. It’s not the respondent’s fault that you can’t absorb anything more intellectual than dime store comicbook stories about Donald Duck.

Unfortunately for you, since your world is ALL ABOUT BRIAN, no one else is allowed to dissent. You are worse than dimwitted, because you can’t see past the end of your pointy little nose. You dip into weak resources and flap them in someone’s face, but there is NO DEPTH in anything you say and YOU CANNOT BACK UP ANYTHING YOU CITE.

You do not, in fact, even approach the intellectual capacity of a Krispy Kreme donut. Those at least have some substance to their content. You do not.

And, uh, yeah, I CAN back up my sources and references, because I tracked them down YESTERDAY.

You, on the other hand, have nothing. You are not even clever enough to see that.

TacticalTrunkMonkey

DAMN IT!!!! spit coffee on my screen with the “Intellectual depth of a Krispy Kreme donut” remark…

Brian

Them’s fightin’ words here on the interwebs.

Good job.

What I expected was a deeper conversation and, apparently, that’s not going to happen.

So, rather than stoop to one’s level of name calling (good job by the way) I’ll take the high road.

My point, there’s a middle ground. I wouldn’t dare dismiss what the DHS is saying. My other point was that most of the readers and writers here are probably downplaying it. Do these “sovereign citizen” groups compare to the likes of ISIL. No, BUT that said, dismissing them would be foolish and that’s what I see here. What exactly needs to be cited to come to a sensible conclusion like that? Terrorism (whatever you want to call it) comes in all shades.

If this is you or most of you conversate in real life…. good luck with that. I am completely baffled with your behavior. You’re a little on the unprofessional side as are a number of the comments here.

You make great points but your lack of manners and professionalism… well, they just suck.

Middle ground.

Ex-PH2

Oh, good. You have admitted to a clear demonstration of your lack of comprehension of simple, plain English.

I will try to ‘splain it to you.

Had you actually bothered to read what I posted earlier on this subject, you’d know that. However, I have already observed that you lack both intellectual depth and substance. To that I will add that you are a lazy fuck who wants people to do everything for you, including putting stuff right under your nose.

I refuse to repeat myself because you are too blatantly lazy to find it. Kindly find the door and don’t let it hit you on the way out.

Brian

You just wrote a stupid comment.

Yes, I read it and it was well written.

I never disagreed with you when you wrote “Denying the reality that is ISIS as an expansionist terrorist group.” Who’s denying that? Even that “asshole in the WH” isn’t denying it.

We get it. I get it. We’re not that far off on this.

What I still continue to read from you and others is that these other groups of so called “sovereign citizens” groups shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Good grief lady, get a grip.

Ex-PH2

Obviously, you still don’t ‘get’ it.

Sovereign citizen groups don’t want the government to bother them. They want NO government. They want to be left alone.

I quoted the FBI’s definition. If they’re left alone, it’s unlikely they’ll bother anyone who stays off their lawn.

Is that simple enough for you, numbskull?

Brian

You base it on “it’s unlikely.” That’s not good enough for me.

That sharp tongue of yours isn’t indicative of your intelligence and it doesn’t win arguments. When someone talks like you, it just shows me that they might be close minded.

What I said (waaaaay in the beginning), it’s stupid to dismiss their warning.

I’ll be darned if we all went with our gut of “It’s unlikely.”

You have a sharp tongue. That’s about it.

Ex-PH2

And while I’m at it, the word ‘conversate’ is a distinct example of functional illiteracy, a made-up word derived from ‘conversation’ a noun, used by pseudo-intellectual twits who puff themselves off as ‘smart’ when they aren’t.
The root word of ‘conversation’ is ‘converse’, a verb, which becomes a noun with the addition of a suffix ‘-ation’.

Basic English, Brian, you don’t have it. You are illiterate. Deal with it.

Brian

It is a word, though it is nonstandard.

Also known as… slang.

Ex-PH2

Slang, and/or vernacular, do NOT make you a writer, lame brain.

Ex-PH2

It is NOT slang.

It is a clear demonstration of functional illiteracy and laziness, and not much else.

Smitty

I have replied to nearly all your comments asking for one single instance of people wanting to be left alone causing any harm to anyone. You have dodged me. You brought up waco, that was the government attacking it’s own citizens and all the more reason not to trust the government. George Orwell wrote a book a while back, call 1984, have you ever picked it up? The obama administration took this book not as a warning, but as a playbook. Their propoganda against those that disagree with them, to the point now of labeling those people terrorist threats, is extremely orwellian. There is NO threat to the lives of anyone from people wanting to be left alone, which is all the sovereign citizen thing is.

DrKnow

Wasn’t David Koresh abusing children, committing rape and advocating/practicing polygamy?

Pinto Nag

Justus Township, MT. Passed bad checks, flooded the courts with bogus legal documents, shot at their neighbors; it’s when the local cops went to investigate the shooting of a neighbor’s horse while she was riding down the road, that it all came to a head with an attempted shooting of a deputy. The Sovereign Citizens who act like the ones in Justus Township are criminals and need to be treated as such.

A Proud Infidel®™

*WHAP!* OOH, that’s gonna leave a mark! 😀 Hey Brian the Smurf-hugging little glitter-farting tinsel mouse of a Sparkle Pony, I TOLD YOU SO, mess with Lionesses, and it’s only a matter of time until you get pounced on! :mrgreen:

Mustang1LT

Goddammit! I’m spent the day wrapping up homework and quizzes in preparation for a long-ass drive to Roanoke and I missed the Lionesses pouncing on a chew toy. I did see this assclown Brian thinks Toasty is a guy and that Ex-PH2 unloaded on his churlish ass. Man, this fucker has bitten off more than he can chew! Oh well, enjoy Brian. You really stepped in it now.

Ex-PH2

Mustang, I really want to drop ‘culeado’ on el pendejo camboyano.

Ex-PH2

Yeah, I can’t remember if it was something on the news or the weather that ticked me off, but having a chewtoy again has been fun.

Sometimes, I think it’s a shame that pickwickre peckerwood isn’t allowed to post his slobbering drivel. I can’t tell him to shut up or I’ll shove his head so far up his ass, he can sit there in the dark and talk shit to himself, and do it in Norwegian.
Maybe I should try that on the new chewtoy.

Oh, here we go.

Brian, futue te ipsum.

Brian

You have a sharp tongue, that’s about it.

I AGREE with you on several counts.

Good grief lady.

Ex-PH2

Oh, I have FAR more than a sharp tongue, you illiterate dullard.

Ex-PH2

Oh, gee whiz, another pathetic excuse for being lazy, functionally illiterate and whiny rears its pimply little head.

I realize that your grasp of English consists of words of one syllable or less, and a handy-dandy little spot on the ‘net that allows use of words made up by other people who are also functionally illiterate and intellectually lazy.

It doesn’t excuse you, your laziness, or your lack of intellect. You are uneducated. It sticks out like quills on an angry porcupine. What a waste of tuition money.

Brian

Right.

I’ll let you have the last word.

Unfortunately, I think you’re one of “those” that thinks all these things when folks disagree with you in the slightest way. That’s too bad.

Good night all. I’ve commented far too much. Sorry for the bother.

Dave Hardin

What? You can’t leave yet. I have two beers left and half of a bag of chips. Damn it anyway……

Ex-PH2

What? He runned away???

Well, what else can you expect from someone who thinks he’s SO superior to everyone else he runs into in a blog like this, when he’s unwilling to accept simple facts that refute his arguments?

I find it strange that he claims he’s a writer, when his grasp of English is at a lower level than that of most recent immigrants, legal or otherwise. He has no vocabulary and no concept of context. And he wants to write.

A Proud Infidel®™

I doubt he ran away all on his own Ex-PH2. My bet is that his Mommy called him up and out of the basement and told him NO MORE Internet or XBox until his school homework and chores are done! 😀
I hope the precious little sparkly Smurf-hugging sugarbritches of a glittering Sparkle Pony returns only to get clawed and chewed into oblivion once again!

Ex-PH2

Unfortunately, Proud, I never once got into a debate with that mindless doorknob. He wasn’t worth the time it takes to cite resources and references. But I did find his lack of education pathetically indicative of his lack of comprehension of plain old English.

Eden

“I can’t tell him to shut up or I’ll shove his head so far up his ass, he can sit there in the dark and talk shit to himself, and do it in Norwegian.”

Girlfriend, where’s the spew warning???

Ex-PH2

Sorry, Eden! I forgot. My bad.

bryanna the braindead wimped out and limped last night, unable to withstand being repelled by A Stronger Force.

We don’t get new chewtoys very often now.

Eden

Darn! I guess I missed out on all the fun! You’re right–new chewtoys are becoming fewer and farther between.

Richard

There is a Wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

It describes incidents starting in 2010.

In May 2010, two police officers in West Memphis, Arkansas were shot and killed by Joseph T. Kane.

On August 16, 2012, two sheriff’s deputies were shot to death and two others seriously wounded after having been ambushed near LaPlace, Louisiana.

On June 6, 2014, Dennis Marx, who was later identified as being a member of the sovereign citizens movement, opened fire on a Forsyth County, Georgia courthouse, injuring one deputy before being shot and killed himself.

According to the article, those incidents are the complete record for the actual attacks on law enforcement.

There are assorted plots, threats, conspiracy, and attempts without result. Most of the cases revolve around tax evasion or some similar fraud.

There are 138 footnotes in the article, 3 are from the Southern Poverty Law Center. The rest are a mix of news media, FBI, court, and prisons documents – mostly media.

If you google sovereign citizen you will see some interesting stories.

My takeaway. The Sovereign citizen movement is mostly talk and fraud and bad documents. Over the previous four years, four police officers were killed by people associated with the movement. In one case (Louisiana) some guys got together and went out to attack police officers. Two other cops were killed at a traffic stop. Over the last four years a lot more law enforcement officers have been killed in other circumstances. The FBI might assign one guy part time to keeping up with these guys. If a cop pulls over someone with a Sovereign Citizen bumper sticker, he is much more likely to find tax fraud or someone filing for a quiet title on a house that isn’t his than a violent guy. Not to be ignored by the officer doesn’t have to call out the National Guard.

Law Enforcement is good at keeping track of nuts like this. Keep up the good work.

So Brian, if I was a cop, I would worry more, a lot more, about Al Sharpton than the Sovereign Citizen movement.

Brian

You would worry more about Al Sharpton than extremist groups?

That’s stupid.

I know what you’re trying to say, but that’s a dumb statement. Pretty sure that guy can’t hit even that broad side of a barn.

Richard

So imagine that you’re a cop in say Ferguson MO and you have a confrontation with a bad guy on the street and you end up killing the guy. It is a righteous shoot. But Al Sharpton shows up and incites the locals to riot. He gets national news coverage and incites people all over the country to riot. The DOJ is STILL considering whether to take action against your department. Due process cannot happen. Your name gets dragged through the mud. You have to resign your job. You can never work as a cop again. You did your job, it was a righteous shoot and you life is wrecked by some asshole for political purposes.

That is not stupid. So, you are wrong.

You took the time to read my post, think about it, and write “that is stupid”. Then you clicked “post comment”. Now which one of us is stupid?

Ex-PH2

Oh, you think Al Sharpton, the guy who owes millions to the IRS, can’t stir up trouble with a snap of his fingers? You need to pay much more attention to what goes on in the real world, if that’s case, because he does not need to pick up a gun and shoot anyone.

No, Al needs nothing more than a microphone or bullhorn and a chance to shoot off his mouth in front of a live camera. He’s been doing that since the 1960s, but now that Malcolm X and Dr. King are long since dead, he gets more opportunities to be seen and run his mouth and stir up trouble.

Oh, you weren’t watching the Ferguson riots, were you? There he was, right in the thick of it, stirring up trouble, but where was he before the cameras showed up? Hmmmm…. why, he was warm and comfy in his expensive home, not in Ferguson. And oddly, he didn’t show up until Day 2.5.

How very clever of him. That way, he didn’t get his suit dirty.

Brian

Possibly a good point. I just don’t see that coming to fruition in “sovereign citizen” terrorist group kind of way. Protests? Sure. Full on stick bombs in your underwear? Nope.

2/17 Air Cav

“Possibly a good point.” What an asshole.

Richard

“I just don’t see that coming to fruition in “sovereign citizen” terrorist group kind of way.”

What kind of “way” is that? I sense that YOU think that “sovereign citizens” have secret meetings and plan to kill cops. They have secret caches of guns and ammunition. They listen on secret cop radios. The follow cops around so that they can find places to execute their attacks. They hang out at donut shops. They probably modify their cars so that they can evade capture. And have airplanes and nuclear weapons.

Google “sovereign citizen movement” and look at how they show up in the news. Please. Really read the stories. I ask that you pay attention to the actual violence that they have perpetrated, not the plans. Lots of people talk and that is called “plotting” or conspiracy but the actual violence, the demonstrated ability to act in groups to DO something is more important. Then compare that to the violence that occurs on Chicago’s south side or in DC on a typical Saturday night. Sovereign Citizens aren’t terrorists. If you are active duty, as your said “had your ticket punched”, then you should understand about terrorism.

By the way, referring to me and other people on this site as old is your lame attempt at an insult. I probably am older than your are, so what? And that, by definition, means that I have more life experience than you do. But that doesn’t mean that I am feeble in the head. I know that it seems unlikely to you but it is just barely possible that we actually know more than you about this or that. Before you go out of your way to insult someone, it is in your interest to be VERY certain that you can win the fight. I have to say, so far you aren’t looking good. It appears to me that you are wearing crampons and stomping on your dick so it isn’t going to get much better.

Ex-PH2

‘you are wearing crampons and stomping on your dick’ – oh, I love that!

Can I borrow that?

Richard

It would be my honor.

I do have a crampon scar on the back of my calf – pretty common I suspect. If I was more limber …

Thunderstixx

Brian…
Go fuck yourself…
Stupid fuckhead liberal…

Ex-PH2

Get this into that dormant organ you have for a brain, brian the braindead: terrorists, whether as individuals or groups, go in search of groups of people so that they can attack them and do severe damage to them. E.g., the Tsarnaev brothers, the Oslo shooter Anders Breivik, the Paris shooter at the office of Charlie Hebdo and a Kosher bakery in Paris, France.

“Sovereign citizens” do not do that. They will shoot back if shot at.

You really do not know the difference between terrorists and isolationists.

Try reading for comprehension and context. You do NOT know what you’re talking about.

Bill R.

The political left wants so bad for a right winger to commit some heinous crime so they can say “I told you so”. Every time something happens they immediately blame the right until the facts get in the way and the press quietly shuts it down. 24 incidents? Big deal. And if they were truly a big deal, I’d be reading and hearing about them until the media has milked the story dry. Most of us on the right just want to be left alone. We’re not trying to get anyone to live a certain way but expect the reverse to be true also. That seems to be the big problem with the left.

Ex-PH2

I think my personal favorite example of idiocy was that guy who flew his plane into a building down in Texas(?) a few years ago, because he just didn’t want to pay his taxes.

That is not terrorism. It is the act of a self-centered asshole, nothing more.

Mustang1LT

Yeah, and that clown was a registered Democrat as I recall.

I M Simpleton

There is no “right” or “left” wing to us law abiding citizens. There is only criminals and terrorists vs citizens.

You’re letting the enemies false construct define the debate. Which is really the shutting down of debate. I say leftists because that’s what they call themselves, but I know that fascists are socialists are communists. And that is not “extremism”. In fact, they state themselves plainly that they and they alone have the right to use force to deprive others of their rights, because you know, social justice, slavery, racism, greater good, you didn’t build that.

I’ll defend my family against any threat, no matter what they cite for justification.

Mustang1LT

I concur. I only mentioned that fellow’s political affiliation because I remember when the incident occurred, it was all over the news as an example of “Sis” Napolitano’s warning about “Right Wing Extremists” until it was discovered that this guy was a Democrat. Then all of a sudden, the story fell off the radar.

Ex-PH2

Perhaps it’s time to revive that story and others that the Oval Office finds completely embarrassing. I was thinking of that business with shutting down national monuments not so very long ago, and the furor over it, and the photographs of people taking down barriers and throwing traffic cones into the ditch – that sort of thing.
That should not be allowed to die away.

11B-Mailclerk

I strongly suspect that the rather tame and orderly disobedience over monuments has some folks wetting themselves.

“Wh.. Wh.. What if more of them realize they can disobey us, ad get away with it? Th.. Th.. They do not fear us! This cannot be!”

Thunderstixx

Libs are terrified of us… Good, dammit…

Bill R.

Not only was he a democrat he had written the communist manifesto in his reasoning for doing what he did.

Ex-PH2

Thanks for the reminder. We need to keep info like that in the forefront, with resources cited. We especially need to do this with another election coming up.

streetsweeper

These are the kinds of problems that people who stand on conservatism face, being lumped in with the criminal elements of the Soveriegn Citizens, Concerned Citizens Council,et all and then we end up with the likes of this “Brian” dude coming here, seeking to stir the pot to the boiling point.

I recognize this “Brian” style of eliciting responses from back in the day moderating on the former Resistnet, Tea Party site.

Ex-PH2

Well, I only vaguely remember the McCarthy era stuff because my walking doll and my real, working mini sewing machine were more important. (I wish I’d kept that thing.)

But there was something in the air about smear campaigns going on, and the newspapers were all wigged out about it. So I see all of this kind of hysterics about a non-group of people, who are mostly fraudsters, as an attempt to revive that kind of thing.

Gee, I do wonder what those so-called journalists would do with Daniel Boone? Remember him? Didn’t want to live any place where he could see his neighbor’s chimney smoke. Didn’t want to pay taxes, didn’t want government – ANY government – bothering him.

The theme song of the left side of the political fence is not very liberal. They really don’t like anyone who is different from them, or is independent and able to think for himself, no matter how much they try to hide it. So how can that mindset possibly be ‘liberal’?

B Woodman

“But this particular report smells like a Southern Poverty Law Center fund raising drive, like all of the others;”

Duh! Ya think?

I M Simpleton

Geez, my brain hurts after reading that crap.

Well, I’m sick of being lectured by leftists how I can’t judge a certain group based on what they say is a “small minority”. But they can judge me and 70% of Americans based on lunatics I don’t even associate with. The president calls me a flat-earther and the VP calls me a sexual deviant, then they lecture me on moral equivalency?

Forget the DHS “report”. DHS has already proven their incompetence. Russian intelligence calls the FBI and says “these guys are planning something” and DHS does nothing until the Boston Bombers kill and maim innocent citizens. The Underwear Bombers father calls the FBI and says “my son is overseas planning an attack” and they don’t even put him on the no fly list?

And, the icing on the cake: Maj Nidal Hasan e-mails a known terrorist and the FBI are monitoring his emails, but the Army doesn’t do anything about him or even interview him? Until he guns down our soldiers in a terror attack?

It is clear that DHS’ mission is not to protect US citizens anymore.

Ex-PH2

No, but they do a fine job of looking damned stupid, don’t they?

I M Simpleton

I trust this president even less to define “extremism” or what is a threat. After all, the president and Nancy Pelosi both praised Occupy Wall Street. One of the stated goals of OWS was the destruction of capitalism, by force if necessary. And this administration eggs on the FTP movement. Another cop was gunned down last night. No mention of “extremism” when it’s the left doing the violence.

And this president still doesn’t have a plan to fight ISIS, 2 1/2 years after his gun running scheme in Benghazi went wrong. But he sure has a plan to deal with political dissent at home. By using the EPA, OSHA, ATF, and IRS he will stop dissent here at home. With his plan to “fix” the internet, TAH may soon be shut down. For the “greater good” of course.

Ex-PH2

Oh, yeah – fix the internet. Progress is too slow for his prezzieness, isn’t it?

I had to read up on that and realized that he must be living in the 1980s – you now, those good ol’ days before the internet found its feet? It doesn’t help that he doesn’t have a clue how business and commercial competition work, and how easy it is to start with next to nothing and build a successful, thriving business.

The worst part about bodaprez is that he sees problems where there are none and interferes with something that works, but doesn’t have a clue about what doesn’t work, nor does he care. If it’s broken, he is not going to fix it, but if it works for everyone, he’s going make a mess of it, for sure.

That applies to everything he touches, including the internet.

RunPatRun

Quite a few comments on a CNN propaganda piece designed to smear conservatives and detract from the Aministration’s failed foreign policy.

Wait. Does the WH even have a foreign policy?

And Brian, thanks for playing, but you were smacked down in the comments. At leaast I hope you learned something from your efforts.

JimW

Brian is a leftist troll. Likes to get under ones skin with his air of superiority. Sadly he’s just another TROLL. Bye Bye Dip Shit. The usual answer with a question, and i’s just smarter than you. Really gets old.

FatCircles0311

If you’re a lefty that wants to burn the U.S. Consitutional and attack law enforcement and the military you’re a patriot and get coushy education jobs. If you’re rightwing and dare question the gover meant you’re a terrorist.

This is Obama’s ameica. Look at how Bill Ares and that cop killing scum in prison are treated compared to groups like the tea party.

This shit is pathetic. Certain law enfrocement persons in this adminstration have no shame.

Ex-PH2

It’s just CNN using the DHS at work trying to deflect attention from the real issues, you know.

Grab some obscure piece of paper from a crank who hates everyone who doesn’t kiss his ass and agree with him; cobble together some numbers from unverified sources; try to ramp up some hysteria about it; and wait for heads to roll.

Has anyone seen a head rolling yet? I haven’t. I don’t even see this CNN crap in the 2 hours of mid-day news, which focus on international, national and local issues – you know, the stuff that actually has importance.

TankBoy

Considering the Obama administration and the SPLC (a somewhat discredited money making machine;yeah, both fit that description)would consider anyone white and a little right of Marx as a potential racist terrorrist, I think Brian is right. We do need to be worried about white domestic terrorrists, and are foolish to discount this report. All of you arguing with him are fools.
We also need to start training all of our oil drilling roughnecks to blow up asteroids, all of our high school kids to become partisans when the Sandinistas successfully invade (actually, they sort of already have…), and prepare for the arrival of giant shape changing robots from space.
All are powsibilities. The fact is, Brian, the likelihood of other typres of terrorrism, Islamic Extrrrremist specifically, are much more likely, but are vehemently denied by the current occupants of the executive branch. Still not likely, bit I bet that’s what the people waiting for the bus in Detroit thought a couple of days ago before theyb got stabbed for not being Muslim.
I wish I would have been here yesterday. Guys like you that think they are clever, but really aren’t, are fun to play with. We would have had a lot of fun.

Ex-PH2

OH, TankBoy, I wasn’t arguing with wee bryanna.

I was merely pointing out that he has the intellectual depth of a layer of tar and gravel on a freshly-paved roadbed. His worst trick was trying to change the direction of this thread to suit himself by including non sequiturs, so I focused on his stupidity. That trick is SO old and SO obvious, it doesn’t work on any of us.

Big Steve

Good post. You are the man, Tank Boy 🙂

jonp

Why are you guys rolling around in the mud with Brian The Troll?

Ex-PH2

Because it’s fun, JonP.

Where you last night?

Silentium Est Aureum

I could tell you where I was last night, but certain shitty “lawers” would have their catheters crawl up into their bladders.

Seriously, I would have piled on, but 1–you all seemed to have it well in hand, 2–I don’t debate Pee Wee Herman (I know you are, but what am I?) types, and 3–guys like him are like kicking puppies; they make funny noises, but no real challenge involved.

JohnE

A lot of vitriol being spewed here. None of which makes much sense to me. Brian, if you came here to stir the shitpot, you succeeded. If you came here to engender discussion and provoke thought, you should have known better. This isn’t the place…

A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. Makes no difference if they are Al Queda, ISIL, Bader Meinhof,Red Brigades, Gods Army, IRA or Quantrill’s Raiders…

The FBIs definition of Domestic terrorism-

“…activities with the following three characteristics:
◾Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
◾Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
◾Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.”
seems to fit the MO of many groups, both Right and Left. But imho, in the end, extremists of any ilk suck.

IF a group takes or plans action against the government, general public or another group, they may be called terrorists, criminals or crazies, sometimes they are all 3.

teddy996

The sovereign citizen thing only fits the last requirement that you posted. They don’t kill folks to intimidate or coerce the government or the population, and tax fraud or hunting without a license are not “acts dangerous to human life”.

The particularly crazy ones that have gotten violent were ones that were confronted by the government first, through violence or threat of arrest. That’s criminal behavior, not terrorist behavior.

DHS is conflating criminal behavior with terrorist behavior, most likely in an attempt to inflate their budget, and then the SPLC is associating that behavior with a large portion of the populace to score political points and raise funds for themselves.

It is dishonest and a waste of resources for DHS to suggest that they need to apply the same scrutiny to petty criminals scamming the tax code as they do to actual terrorist groups that may be planning to plant bombs because their God tells them to kill infidels, or plotting to shoot the president because he is black.

You and Brian seem to disagree. That’s fine, but don’t pretend that we need to actually respect you for being obtuse, and don’t demand that we need to see the DHS report as anything other than them boosting their threat numbers to support the tired “were dealing with too many problems with too few resources” argument that every federal entity uses every single year. Especially when most of us here made that same DHS list before, just for being veterans.

JohnE

As an LEO, I prepare to deal with SC and general terrorist types every day…there is no difference at the tactical level. Let the talking heads at the 30K ft level worry about definitions. No one has killed en masse on behalf of the movement…yet. But as they say, failing to prepare is preparing to fail, and we must always look to the next threat.

And I don’t give a fuck if you respect me based on a couple of internet postings, nor do I think you should. I would be disgusted if you did actually. One should form opinions based on personal interactions, not readings on the computer.

2/17 Air Cav

“IF a group takes or plans action against the government, general public or another group, they may be called terrorists, criminals or crazies, sometimes they are all 3.”

I suppose, but that’s only if one adopts the terms and definitions served up by the government. Perspective matters, as does a knowledge of history. We have a government and a Constitution as a direct result of action taken by “terrorists, criminals, and crazies.” Today we call them patriots.

JohnE

So which definition will you take? The gubmints? Websters? I like the DoDs myself…

“The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological…”

And as Ronald Regan once famously said…”One manys terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.”

Patriotism is another word that really has no solid, universally accepted definition. Many folks only see it their way…if you don’t share their same beliefs, you are not a Patriot. Remember the trite old phrase “My country, right or wrong!”? How many of us still use this?4

2/17 Air Cav

JohnE. I hope you are a much, much better LEO than you are a thinker and researcher. First, statutory and regulatory definitions apply only to the statute or the regulation in which they appear. So, no, unless I am reading a DoD reg going to terrorism, I would not use that department’s definition. Second, were you being disingenuous in attributing that quote to Ronald Reagan or do you just don’t know what you are referring to? What he said, in pertinent part, during his radio address of 31 May 1986 was this:

“Effective antiterrorist action has also been thwarted by the claim that—as the quip goes—‘”One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”’ That’s a catchy phrase, but also misleading. Freedom fighters do not need to terrorize a population into submission. Freedom fighters target the military forces and the organized instruments of repression keeping dictatorial regimes in power. Freedom fighters struggle to liberate their citizens from oppression and to establish a form of government that reflects the will of the people.

Third, the partial quote you provided is meaningless. The full quote, which negates the blind patriotism that you suggest is, “My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”

In so many words, you wrote in another thread that expecting decent discussion or an exchange of ideas is too much to expect of TAH. Or were you speaking only for yourself?

JohnE

Going on the offense solves nothing here, as most of us are fairly set in our attitudes and ways. Accusing or suggesting that I am lax in my job means nothing to me, as you are nowhere near my chain of command or jurisdiction here; you know nothing of me and I know nothing of you, save impressions made here.

Go back and read again, I said that I like the DoDs definition…nowhere did I suggest that we all must accept this definition.

As far as RRs quote goes, it is fair to use part of the whole…matters not, the meaning does not change. No one here is accusing the SC movement of fighting for no ones freedom but their own. There is no altruism behind this movement…only selfishness based on what they perceive to be slights against their rights.

Same goes for the second quote…the intent is still the same. Who decides what is right and wrong on a national scale? I would suggest history is the ultimate decision maker on this.

This forum does not decide what is right or wrong for our country…we only argue and hypothesize and give our opinions, but in the end they are only opinions. And we all know what those are like.

Let me know when you want to rationally exchange ideas…

2/17 Air Cav

Nothing there worth my time.

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Jordan Rott

The only thing the guy towards the middle of that picture is a threat to is Americas food supplies.