The Army’s new MOS-specific PT test
Dave sends us a link to Military.com which reports that the Army is looking into an MOS-specific physical training test; in other words, a PT test for an infantryman would be different from that of a truck driver, you know because a truck driver’s job isn’t as physically intensive as an infantryman. Jessica Lynch can fill you in on the details of that particular theory;
[Army Chief of Staff Gen. Raymond] Odierno said he saw a recommendation for a new PFT when he first became chief, but it was “inadequate.”
So he directed training officials to begin looking at qualifications for every MOS. The data collected from the effort will “help us to understand physiologically when we go to war, what are the requirements that we have to have for somebody to be able to do their job under stressful conditions.”
Sgt. Major of the Army Raymond Chandler III said the effort will help the Army be sure it has the right people in the right jobs.
“Can you do the physical tasks associated with your MOS?” Chandler said. “If not, let’s see if there is another place where we can help you continue to serve but maybe not in the same MOS.”
The Army is also looking at standards female soldiers will have to meet if they want to serve in combat-arms units. All of the services have until 2016 to come up with a plan to meet the Pentagon directive.
We all know, as in the last war, folks find themselves in situations in which they weren’t trained to respond, Jessica Lynch’s firefight and capture by Iraqis is but one example. I guess this is one way the Army plans to get around the folks who argue that women and men have different PT standards so how can women be expected to function in combat arms units to the same standards as men. So the Army gets around it’s promise to not change standards for women by changing everyone’s standards.
Can someone explain to me how this helps the Army kill more of our enemies?
Sorry, that’s just me being subversive again.
Category: Big Army
Chairborne Ranger PFT: Coffee cup lifts (100 in 2 minutes), screwing up TDY orders (50 in 5 minutes), fouling up unit diary so that at least half the battalion ends up No Pay Due (20 in 5 minutes).
Also creates a work around to bring in pasty, flabby, Cheetos-fingered basement dwellers as Counter Cyber Warrior Corps.
I think someone just “broke the code”.
Whoop there it is.
I though the Air Force Cyber Command already had all the basement trolls or at least gave them contractor status
http://www.24af.af.mil/
We already have this, it’s called a “PT Profile”. I am reminded of all the big-bottomed female “warriors” that I saw waddling down the hallways at Walter Reed in uniforms that were ready to burst at the seams. I am sooooo glad to be retired.
Oh you gonna let it all hang out
Fat Bottomed Girls you make the rocking world go ’round
Ugh, not this again. Back in the day (yeah, I know, the stone-age 🙂 ) there were 2 PT tests. I was very happy when they went away. One Army, one test. I agree with Jason on Facebook. One standard. If it’s important enough to need a standard, then it needs to apply to all.
The following MOS descriptions will be part of the new SFOG (Special Fecal Operations Group) Group, limited and classified to the following MOS categories.
25V-Documentation/Production Specialist
Must be able to complete multiple catheter push ups and also multiple chin ups using a medical grade walker.
25C — Radio Operator-Maintainer
Must be able to call in heavy, deploy and recover tactical fecal units without breaking a sweat
92G – TXANG DFAC staff.
You must be able to eat 7 lbs of cheese at one sitting. You must be able to support the SFOG in various positions, particularly a squat and thrust mode after initial preparation
92Y — Unit Supply Specialist, must support the 25C Radio Operation and others in (SFOG – Special Fecal Operations group)in acquiring tactical fecal units and storing, inventorying, maintaining quality control of TFUs
Defense Logistical Contractor, Specialized – in support of SFOG – Must acquire and distribute specialized contingency lubricants administrated to various support personnel to support their high level of readiness to maintain constant awareness of Cadre threats while meeting and exceeding Cadre standards of evaluation.
/yeah you know how you are.
Hey, now. As a 92Y, I had to hump a rick alongside the Infantry unit I was assigned to, while carrying extra ammo, water, and MREs for the grunts.
As tricks ruck. Stupid voice to text peace of ship.
*Ruck. I hate this new computer program I got for Christmas.
That’s comedy gold right there!
Nope,wrong service. This sounds like a job for the Air Force, not the Army. No, wait,wouldn’t the Air Force have to have a PT program/test already in place in order to come up with a new plan? (Ducks and runs for cover)
CLAW131-
Three Words.
Cycle Ergometry Test.
/jebus farking christ tap dancing on a cracker.
//is *that* considered a PT test for him?
😀
Three more words:
Three
Mile
Walk
Passed it every time until they decided we all needed to do something marginally physical for our PFT.
I remember hearing about that, one Air farce Vet told me the easiest way to get a maximum score at it was to eat at Burger King and smoke a cigarette an hour before you took it!!
Yep, that way your heart rate went down during the test which meant you were in shape.
Look at our WW II history. Learn about the clerks, cooks and band members who fought and died with Patton’s 3rd Army and at Bastogne. When the shit hits the fan, everybody had better be able to soldier because the shit will always, at some point, hit the fan and that’s no time to wish all had the same basic training and all met the same fitness standards.
Air Force standard annual PT test. ONE mile in 8 minutes. No gear. Everyone passes!!!!! The Army would become the Air Force. Now that’s funny.
Don’t see the APFT changing. No way that basing it on MOSs would work for all. Sure, an 11B is almost always going to surrounded by fellow 11Bs, as are 13Bs and many other MOSs, and will probably do the same job (or close to it) at every assignment. This means the same physical requirements.
Take a support MOS like mine for instance (NBC). I’m the only one in a Company of grunts or truckers, and one of 4 in the Battalion. Separate pt test standards for me or do I take the 11B or 88M test? Does the additional duty 13B filling the MTOE NBC slot take a 13B test or my test?
This is going to be too screwy to work. Like the Marines, we could all be considered Infantry once the shit hits the fan.
MOS specific PT tests? Gosh, when I served we were ALL soldiers.
As a former “intel-weenie” I have no desire to see the army get any worse. While I certainly was not the most physically fit person in my units, I nonetheless appreciated that there was a standard for everyone, whether they were combat arms or not. It just makes sense to have people be physically prepared to do things that they may not necessarily anticipate doing, as Jonn said.
And you thought those POGs in the finance BN looked soft now. What I want to know is, what about MOSs where you could end up in two completely different work environments like medic? A male medic could get sent to a large hospital and spend his entire time there pushing gurneys and rolling pills. His battle buddy could find himself sent to a light Infantry BN and spend his enlistment humping a ruck. Will they have one or two PT tests based on unit of assignment? What about a 11B that lands in a G3 shop? Will he still do a Infantry PT test or a POG PT test?
Also, I forgot to add this. Once you lower standards, you can NEVER raise them again. Doubt me? Let’s ask the Air Farce about how well that new PT standard went.
This is wrong on so many levels. I was a medic, supply troop, and generator operator in one small Air Force unit. Now which PT standard was I to meet? Which PT standard was I to meet when I was in South America, the transportation standard or the AGE standard, since I worked on both?
The more differences one makes, the fewer resources one has.
The perfumed princesses and princes may argue additional duties are rare and would have no bearing on making different PT standards. Well, maybe they’re rare at the whatagon; but, with shrinking rosters and more activities, they not going to be rare anymore.
There is already a physical profile system in place, keep it.
While I do agree that certain MOS/NEC’s have greater physical requirements, there should be a set minimum STANDARD which ALL service personnel, male or female, should be able to achieve.
Nothing burned my ass more than seeing a female do half the situps, pushups, and 3 minutes slower on the run get the same “Outstanding” as I worked to get.
and there it is.
The stupidest fucking thing I’ll read all day.
Word.
IIRC, at one time the Army had basic PT quals, and then MOS-specific tests on top of that. Things like, say, tankers having to lift so many Sabot rounds/minute, tow-chin drags, etc. I absolutely remember reading about this after I returned from Fort Knox in ’74.
Now, I don’t know if it was implemented, but the idea was in print and being written about.
I remember office pogues whining about this very thing way back in the 70s. They wanted different PT standards for themselves because they weren’t grunts. Neither was I, being a 15Q pogue, but I understood, especially after numerous field exercises, that the standards were there for a reason. I couldn’t have done my job had the standards been any lower than they were. I found that to be especially true during my stint at that sunny little paradise Taji, north of Baghdad. But if the Army decides to change the PT standards, it should also be prepared to change the weight standards because those soldiers will definitely get fatter making the Army a further joke.
This has CYA written all over it, but there is a silver lining to this cloud, I think. The combat MOS will be able to set their standards for their MOS and not for the gender of their applicants, and it will be all nice and legal because all the other MOS will be doing the same thing.
Of course, somebody will probably figure out how to screw that up in short order, too.
FTA: “The Army is also looking at standards female soldiers will have to meet if they want to serve in combat-arms units.” We all know this means there will be different standards for females entering combat MOSs. Will the Army then make howitzer shells, tank main gun rounds, road wheels, etc., somehow more manageable for females to lug around? Sheer madness. Keep up your subversion, Jonn.
They would have to change the color of parts designated for the female soldiers to manage.
Pink howitzer shells, tank main gun rounds, road wheels, etc.. Maybe the obstacle course could have less obstacles, and get rid of all the mud. Nail stations with emery boards and polish. (Hang nails can be a real bitch)
What do you expect with a bunch of legs running (or is that ruining?) the show?
Hey, at least I agree with part of that philosophy. If women want to join combat units, make them take the same PT tests as men, and if they ACTUALLY pass those tests, let them serve in infantry units.
Awwwww! Kwitcherbitchin’! Send us back to the 1960s when the wimminfolks got PT tested once a year, with those really difficult leg-to-opposite shoulder crossovers. Man, you should have heard the moaning and groaning! It was just AWFUL!! And situps? Please! Max was 10, and 10 girlie pushups, the kind with the bent knees, feet off the ground. This was all something on the other of a bad version of Jack LaLanne.
Oh, to be that young and skinny again.
When did “leadership” forget that there are only two jobs in the military; any branch of the military?
Job 1: Kill people
Job 2: Help the people who kill people
Seems pretty simple and they can just make the tests the same for each job in case anyone has to fill in for someone else.
39E…you used the forgotten Army word “leadership” in your comment. It is now “management” and if you don’t believe MW…I have power point presentations from Benning to Carlisle to prove it.
Men kill, women have babies. That is science. The warrior concept of killing the enemy is lost on this generation. A real war against a “first team” will sadly prove me correct.
Does this mean infantry are going to be paid more for having to meet higher requirements? You know, the same as males have been doing for decades since females have been held to lower standards?
Rhetorical question…..
Okay. Bullshit flag. I don’t brag because I don’t have much to brag about concerning my service– Except that at age 40, I could still max the 19 yo female PT standards. I do not want some snot-nosed, ass-picking whiner to have easier PT standards because he is a fucking paper pusher for lack of a better term.
How are we going to remain an elite force, FFS when we let pansies continue to be pansies? Stanards are a must. I absolutely hated PT when women older than myself would whine because they couldn’t run up tank hill at crawl speed and I was the road guard who had to get them back into formation whilst being shorter than the rest…
In the FRG, nothing made me laugh harder than seeing the German Soldiers “guarding the gates Landstuhl who looked like two-ton Tommies.
I was proud then, and I am still proud… the Army should not wussify anyone. I hope Odierno reads this blog.
One freaking standard! How hard is that?
I wonder just which groups of substandard-performing little snowflakes some shafter (*OOPS*, staffer) is trying to placate with this gargantuan bucket of bullshit? Did a bunch of substandard snowflakes “pull a Moerk” all at once?
Proud, that’s an easy one. The group being placated is the clerk/typist pool that is tasked with receiving/preparing/submitting all applications for the Army’s over age 40 Astronaut/Space Shuttle Door Gunner Program.
SEE! You guys are the problem
This is why 1SG Katrina Moerk paces furiously back and forth across her floor.
You’re all a bunch of hard right wings.
(Nope, couldn’t type that with a straight face. )
“help us to understand physiologically when we go to war, what are the requirements that we have to have for somebody to be able to do their job under stressful conditions.” Physiologically when we go to war???!!! Really!!! How about everyone trained to the standards we have now and if they don’t cut the mustard, male or female, The Peace Corps is always looking for a few good folks. “Can you do the physical tasks associated with your MOS?” Chandler said. “If not, let’s see if there is another place where we can help you continue to serve but maybe not in the same MOS.” So if you can’t handle a weapon but can drive a Humvee, you’re good to go. Just not in a war theater. Stateside you’ll be aces and get ARCOMs and letters of appreciation for always doing the speed limit on post. In an actual theater with folks trying to kill you, I guess the truck drivers will need to be infantry prepared as well. “The Army is also looking at standards female soldiers will have to meet if they want to serve in combat-arms units. All of the services have until 2016 to come up with a plan to meet the Pentagon directive. Okay, everyone raise your hands if you saw that coming and see it as the crux of this entire PC endeavor. As Jonn pointed out I will add, the job of the military is to kill people and break things, always has been and always will be the only way wars are won and enemies are vanquished. A softer, gentler, kinder military will look good to the leftist liberals and the new MOS folks who only have to walk from the barracks to the chow hall and back to meet the physical standards of their revised MOS requirements, will be worthless anywhere except CONUS. God forbid our military ever has to defend our home soil. Okay off my rant and soap box and letting my BP calm down now. To close, the Pentagon has become a worthless, political machine and unneeded third… Read more »
If a soldier is a Desk Rat are going to be required to move the desk for their P.T test or just sit at it?
The end.
So what about GO’s and senior most CSMs, at that point they technically no longer have MOS’s or Branches, does that mean they don’t take PT tests.
……waiting for it….. 😉
I’m thinking they will be allowed to test each other via video conference.
Nope, their PT Test will be done online.
SSD-PT
Powerpoint!
Nope. Now they get to pick what MOS they do the test with so they can go out and “be with the troops.” In other words, no GO or CSM ever has to worry about a failing score again.
About a year ago, I was doing a survey for “options for the new PT test” and every exercise was a “crossfit” type event.
So, with this, I’m guessing they’re still throwing a bunch of ideas around and someone heard one walking past an office and decided to claim its what’s next.
Maybe instead of lowering standards they could have another branch of service…The Truck Force. They would handle anything to do with ground transportation and any vehicle with a weapon would be part of the Truck Force. Physical standards… can you fit behind the steering wheel.
Hopefully this is an idea that will meet a missed suspense/administrative death when the current Sergeant Major of the Army ends his tenure at the end of this month.
The senior leadership of the army has forgotten that the purpose of an army is to be ready and able to fight a war.
Instead, now, an army… our army… is a social welfare outfit and federal employment program.
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If you read the whole article it does say that what they are envisioning is TWO PT tests a little like the Marines do it. The standard APFT (not sure if they are still thinking of changing it, making actual gender neutral (not the bullshit they say is gender neutral but is really gender normed)) and a second PT test that is MOS specific (that is different because based on my understanding the Marines make everyone take the same combat PT test). I don’t have a problem with that really if only because different MOSs have different needs, i need my 13Bs to be able to lift heavy ass shells all day long, i don’t care AS MUCH (though i still care) about exactly how far or fast they can ruck since that’s not how arty fights and really i do care that my 35 series people (i am branch detailed so i am back in intel now, that was a sad sad day) are good analysts more then i care about their ability to run sub 13 minute 2 miles or lift 100+ lbs arty shells. Just so long as we keep a base level PT test and rifle quals etc for everyone and the MOS test complements that
[…] The Army’s new MOS-specific PT test : This ain’t Hell, but … – Dave sends us a link to Military.com which reports that the Army is looking into an MOS-specific physical training test; in other words, a PT test for an infantryman … […]