Hagel; more women dying in combat is their civil right
Stars & Stripes reports that Chuck Hagel, the Secretary of Defense told women Marines at Camp Lejeune, NC that it’s their civil right to die in combat alongside men. Well, he didn’t quite say it that way, I’m just helping him clarify his position;
He noted that individuals who weren’t white and male were long unfairly denied their rights and opportunities, but American society has changed.
He said giving people a chance to succeed and maximize their talents is “the right thing to do.”
Some inside and outside the military and outside oppose opening up combat roles to women due to concerns they won’t be up to the task and it will harm unit cohesion.
Hagel acknowledged the challenges ahead.
“I know it is not easy. I know we are dealing with cultural issues,” he said.
Um, no, Mister Secretary, it’s not a cultural issue, it’s about science, most women won’t be able to meet the standard, the standard that has been recognized as the way to keep soldiers alive. Many men can’t meet the standard. It has nothing to do with sharing foxholes or sharing showers or hormonal twenty-somethings. It’s not cultural at all.
When Black men were integrated into the infantry, they met the standard. That was breaking down cultural barriers. Women aren’t meeting the standard that white and black and gay men must meet.
The standard has already changed. The Washington Post reports that 31 women have been accepted into a program that allows them to observe Ranger training in preparation for their attendance at that course in the Spring. All of you fellows with Ranger tabs who were allowed to audit the course, raise your hands.
When Chief Tango sent me the link, he asked how many Observer/Controllers worked at the Ranger course, I answered that I don’t know, but if I were to guess it would be less than 31.
“I was very satisfied with both the quality and quantity of the volunteers we received,” said Maj. Gen. Scott Miller, commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning. “Their performance and professionalism over the course of the week was extraordinary. This group did very well for what was a very physically challenging week for any Soldier.”
Col. David Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, said the women were interviewed by Army officials and attempted numerous events incorporated in Ranger training before their selection, he said.
If they’re so good, why do they need a walk-through?
No one has been able to answer the question that I asked years ago – how does this social engineering program make our military more effective, how does it help kill more of the enemy? How does creating more female trigger-pullers help us win wars? How do you justify the expense of integrating women into combat in these days of dwindling funds?
Category: Big Pentagon
Does this mean white males are going to be moved out and affirmative action will be taking their spots?
lol that’s a rhetorical question.
It sounds like Gen. Scott Miller needs to step down.
Ballsucking, political clown.
Way to instill confidence in the select few but overlook the hard-charging many.
Yet another shitbag General who takes marching orders from up top.
Benning’s mission (not Miller’s fault) went to shit with the inclusion of the other CA’s. The other CA’s had their own missions and were doing just fine where they were.
Way to go Army!
Uh, consider the source. Were you expecting anything else from that asshole?
OK, Jonn, I’ll answer those questions for you. “It doesn’t”; “It doesn’t”; “It doesn’t”; and “It doesn’t.”
But it makes our libidiot brethren “feel oh so good” about themselves – so “it’s all good” (God, I absolutely hate that phrase).
Hey-no honest answers allowed here! Only politically correct talking points can be put forth in order provide cover for the delusional left as it seeks to undermine another outstanding American institution.
Said it before, say it again…how good will these tards “feel” when TIME magazine has a cover photo of one of these women, dead, mutilated, defiled, her corpse being dragged half naked through the streets of some Third World shithole?
Just saying.
Sadly, NHSparky – they probably won’t give a damn one way or another. To them, it will be just a another “necessary sacrifice for the cause”.
It doesn’t matter if it makes us more combat effective Jonn, just that it makes some congresscritter ‘feel better about integrating the services’.
I have asked that question as well, ‘How does this make us more combat effective’? Having seen some of the stupidity that the ‘soft skills’ have to go through, I do not see how it does.
The purpose of the infantry is to close with and destroy the enemy by means of maneuver and firepower. That means getting in the enemy’s face and shooting them after lugging a 60+ lb pack for several miles usually.
I just don’t see how the inclusion of women in combat arms units will not force the standard to drop. and don’t tell me that there are women out there who can do it. I know there are. But the civilians in charge will not be happy with the numbers being put through and will drop the standards to ensure and adequate number are being trained. that is ridiculous.
Also, I just don’t think that they have thought through the medical consequences of this action. 20+ years in the light infantry puts a toll on a man’s body when he is carrying between 65-80% of his body weight.
Put a comparable load on a woman, it will be more like 90-120% their bodyweight. That will increase the number of injuries to women, and cause us to lose even more combat effectiveness.
Once again, I haven’t heard a good answer as to how this is making us more combat effective. So why are we doing it?
Hmmmmm …. maybe standards will change and the “light infantry” load will now decrease afterall ….
Did you know that soldiers once could be disciplined if they overloaded their mules [my grandfather was a muleskinner in the 1930s]? SLA Marshall wrote they were careful not to exceed 33% of the mule’s weight. The new June 2004 FM3-05.213 (FM 31-27) “Special Forces Use of Pack Animals”states:
Wish the army treated us like mules!
Does anyone else read gender neutral as anything other than “lowered”?
If they truly want to go gender-neutral, it will have to start in basic training. The women will have to meet the same standards as the men to even get into the military. Then “gender neutral” standards will work with the other occupational specialties. Otherwise, using one standard to get women in the military and then using another standard to get them into combat units is going to cause the military to hit a wall.
That is actually the plan as I understand it. There is going to be one standard per combat arms MOS that must be met by everyone in order to be awarded that MOS. Supposedly they may also be going to make it retroactive so that those of us currently holding a CA MOS are also going to have to qualify at that standard. Not to sure how they are going to handle all of the potential failures though. We’ve been working on the 19K/19D standard here at the Armor School for the past year or so (and by we I mean some other unit that conducts OSUT, not those of us that conduct ABOLC). We have had to give our input a few times on it.
This is ridiculous. And you all know I’ve argued in favor of my sex. I always will. Give us some credit for what we CAN do, and I’m fine with that.
But this is an all-volunteer military, and until it changes to reinstating the draft, with women required to meet the same standards as men, it WON’T work. It’s not because women can’t handle a .50 calibre gun or drive a tank or shoot at/hit a target. It isn’t even about dragging some wounded soldier off the field.
It’s about carrying the load for a prolonged period of time. Unless there is a conditioning program for women ahead of the combat-related programs, they will fail.
Geez, even I know that.
Ex, it’s not even about the load for a prolonged period of time. I’ve seen men broken off by 20 years in the infantry. There is only so much conditioning you can do to carry 60+ lbs. (a standard infantryman’s load). A woman carrying that load over a prolonge period of time (years) will be more likely to break down than a man.
I just really feel that the DOD has not even thought that through.
They know the answers, they’ve done plenty of studies regarding the differences in musculoskeletal injuries in males and females. It’s just that those answers are politically palatable to the powers that be, so they’re ignoring them.
…those answers aren’t politically palatable…
What is their obsession with white males. The military was integrated, what, 50 fucking years ago. Rip Van Hagel is a dumbass along with the rest of the people at the Five Sided Asylum. None of this shit makes us more combat effective, but it makes people like him feel better at cocktail parties.
Over 66 years ago now, Climb to Glory. Truman issued Executive Order 9981 desegregating the US armed forces on 26 July 1948. It became the de facto norm during the Korean War; the last all-black unit in the military was disbanded in September 1954 – over 60 years ago.
Say what you may about Women in combat, but I will always feel that having women on the battle field is the wrong direction to take. The only exception that I would approve would be that only women either single or not having children at home would be allowed to serve in any combat unit, otherwise. stay home and keep the house clean. End of story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where the tall corn grows
and fix me a sammich !!
FIFY Sam. 😉
OC
Poor Hagel. He must not have read the full White House memo. If he had added “old” to “white and male” he could have had a shot at a full sanctimonious double-standard trifecta.
“I know it is not easy. I know we are dealing with cultural issues,” he said.
An old issue and if I start on it again, I’ll go ballistic and I’m having too good a day to have to check my blood pressure. I’m damned near there now.
The powers that be in government are not going by the ways of science. They are going by what they see in the movies.
In the movies over the last 20 to 25 years we have begun to see female characters that are able to not only keep up with male warriors, but are able to kick their asses with ease, all while being dressed in revealing, skin tight outfits, high heels, and more buckles and belts and firearms than any sane person could carry in real life. They make Bruce Willis look like a pussy.
The reality never comes into the picture. These incredible women on the screen are ACTORS who, in regular life, would be killed within the first few seconds of landing in a combat zone because they wouldn’t have the strength to carry the 70 pounds of battle rattle they’d need to keep them alive.
Ya know, I do enjoy the new “Hawaii Five-O,” even though it’s written by anti-gun douches and (like most TV shows) treats shit that never or at best rarely happens like everyday occurrences. And Grace Park and Michelle Borth are HOTTTT!*
But I don’t buy it for a second when either one of them is shown tearing up a room full of dudes twice their size or better. Or when Grace Park shows off her talents as a 1000-yard, sub-MOA sniper–where’d she find the time to learn that skill between the Honolulu PD academy, surfing, and generally being a hot Asian chick in a bikini in the state with the most draconian gun control laws of all fifty? Or when Michelle Borth disappears to go hunt down kidnappers in Afghanistan by herself–because a female Navy satellite intel specialist would definitely last longer than eight seconds alone on a scooter in the most backward sharia shithole on earth. Another favorite show of mine, the new “Battlestar Galactica,” was even worse. I like Katee Sackhoff, but the episode where she and Apollo have a boxing match had me smirking at what a tremendous pussy he must be.
These are the moments when my suspension of disbelief is replaced with a hearty dose of “Bitch, please!” Jessica Biel (speaking of HOTNESS!) put it best when she was interviewed about the crappy “Total Recall” remake. The interviewer asked about her hand-to-hand skills, and she replied, “I can hold my own just fine against a stuntman who’s practiced the other half of the choreographed fight scene.”
But like you said, they’re going by what Hollywood says, and Hollywood wouldn’t lie, right? (Two words: Hurt Locker)
*Grace Park is tied with Jamie Chung for the title of “Second Most Beautiful Asian Girl Known to Man.” Number One is my wife. 🙂
C/O
OC Who ever you are.
I like your (CENTS of HUMER)
where in the hell did you come up with that FIFY, we used that way back in grade school, but I think back then you wer’nt even thought about. LoL
Sam, I ain’t real internet savvy, but I thought all these abbreviations were fairly new internet shorthand.
Didn’t realize it was older than dirt.
BTW – OC = Ol’ Curmudgeon. It’s what my pals (I think they are) call me.
OC
Jonn can you to a FOIA (or whatever else you need to do) for Hagel’s military records to see if he worked on Operation Ranch Hand? Because it sure sounds like Agent Orange rotted that man’s brain.
Unless he was an ASVAB waiver to begin with. Maybe one of McNamara’s Project 100,000?
Didn’t a female cop fail repeatedly to physically take down the dude that hopped the White House recently. Just an example of changing standards for the sake of PC.
what woman in her right mind wants to die in combat? if you have a death wish just stay home and jump in front of a bus!
Don’t forget that dumb twat in New York immediately after 9/11, who claimed that the “real tragedy,” was that no female firefighters died when the WTC came down, some chickenshit about how that would have made people “take women more seriously.”
This of course had every firefighter of both genders in America (myself included) saying, “Wow, 343 dead firefighters wasn’t enough for you? You wanted even more dead? Fuck you!” Never mind the fact that she was ignoring numerous line-of-duty deaths of female firefighters nationwide since 1980. This cunt wanted female firefighters to get killed, not for any worthwhile purpose (pro tip, the only way a firefighter should ever lose their life is in an attempted rescue; risk a life for a life, for everything else there’s insurance) so she could wave their bodies around like a fucking protest sign.
Now her ilk want female Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen to die for the same bullshit reason. Tell me again who’s waging a war on women? ‘Cause it looks to me like the liberal dems are the ones who regard women as disposable pawns.