Second Healthcare Worker Positive for Ebola
Both CNN and Fox News are reporting that a second heathcare worker at Dallas Presbyterian Hospital has contracted Ebola. The individual was also among those who provided care to Thomas Duncan, the Liberian citizen who imported Ebola to this nation.
Other troubling allegations have been made by nurses at the hospital. The nurses claim that adequate protective gear was not available for the first 3 days of Duncan’s hospitalization. They also say that training in how to care for Ebola patients was not mandatory, nor was clear guidance as to proper care protocols for Ebola sufferers provided.
The nurses’ claims were made public by National Nurses United – a nurses union – that does not represent the nurses at Dallas Presbyterian. National Nurses United claims is not releasing the names of those individuals who are making these allegations, but do claim to have vetted their claims. They also allege that nurses at Dallas Presbyterian have been warned that speaking to the media would result in loss of employment.
Per the Fox News article, “CDC officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment” when asked about the nurses union’s allegations. I can’t say that I’m surprised. The CDC Director, Dr. Thomas Friedman, has rather famously and publicly claimed that any US hospital can properly treat Ebola cases.
Well, Dr. Friedman: this incident rather strongly argues differently. IMO it also calls into question just how well your agency is managing US preparedness for an Ebola outbreak in this country. Indeed, at least some medical professionals are now of the opinion you should be replaced as CDC Director due to mismanagement of that effort.
Yeah, I’m guessing that wetness we feel on our legs about now isn’t rain. Looks to me like we’re being fed a line of BS – yet again – by the DC clown krewe in charge current Administration’s senior officials. Only this time, people are in real danger of dying because of the BS.
Moreover: we still haven’t instituted mandatory quarantines for those arriving in the US from the Ebola outbreak area. We also haven’t banned nonessential travel by US citizens and legal residents to the outbreak area. And we apparently don’t intend to do so.
Hello? Do you comprehend the reality – and the gravity – of the situation yet, Mr. President? Dr. Friedman?
Category: "Teh Stoopid", "The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves", "Your Tax Dollars At Work", Barack Obama/Joe Biden
To top things off, this second nurse who has been infected flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day prior to reporting her symptoms.
And she traveled with the OK from the CDC who said her fever didn’t pass the 100.4 threshold.
That bumbling pack of incompetents are going to get a bunch of people killed.
See my post here: http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=55819&cpage=1#comment-2078440
which has a link to a Forbes article about a new study that says the standard 21-day incubation period may not be long enough.
If the CDC does not work out with this guy, the VA would take him in a heartbeat!
If you like your ebola, you can keep your ebola.
If you don’t like your ebola, it doesn’t matter. You might still catch it!
So, when they were talking about ebola back in the 90’s the tone was that an ebola epidemic would be about the worst thing ever for all mankind. End of days kind of stuff. Contrast that with the email I got this week from some kind of force protection agency telling me to use hand sanitizer and not have sex with fruit bats (paraphrased) and I’ll be fine. Oh shit, is that all? By that logic, I guess we could just send africa a whole boat load of hand sanitizer and this problem will just go away…
The global economy was SOOOO important we couldn’t have travel bans. Compared to an global epidemic?
I don’t jump to the conspiracy stuff but damn me if the lack of leadership and aciton here doesn’t smack of some sort of intent. In any case the incompetence on this level is just amazing.
But….
I gotta tell ya.
If dead people start walking I’m not going to be able to hide my excitment.
If they don’t start getting their heads out of their asses, just about 70% of us are going to be dead people walking.
I agree.
Ever read “The Stand” by Stephen King?
Yes, when it was originally published.
Oh yes, and I’ll bet Stephen King is having sleepless nights, watching his ‘fiction’ becoming a real living nightmare.
Or “Executive Orders” by Tom Clancy
They used Ebola in that book.
Long story short, don’t go to conventions. Don’t hang out with people who went to conventions.
Since we’re about half-way there already, can we please have Jack Ryan as President?
I’d vote for him.
In a heartbeat.
Someone commented elsewhere that it was like Chapter 1 of Michael Crichton thriller.
Sci-Fi authors always seem to be ahead of the game, think Tom Clancy in Debt of Honor when DC talking heads were saying that they never thought of using a jumbo jet as a missle. Well, Tom Clancy did and it was the first thing we thought of when we saw the planes hit the Towers.
I think I have some books to re-read.
Remember, this is the same government that said there isn’t enough money in the budget to prevent an extinction level event. Because, we should fund equal opportunity training in Mexico until the very end of civilization as we know it. Otherwise, what would the next civilization think when they uncover the remains of our thriving bureaucracy.
Something tells me they need to do some serious research on the airbourne infection side of the house a little more as well. This is getting out of hand and making the conspiracy loons thrive and flood all of social media with more scares.
Not sure that’s in play here, Whitey_wingnut – yet. If true, the allegations by the nurses union (see 3rd link in the article) could easily explain the two other transmissions to date.
But maybe not. That’s why we need to be heavy-handed as hell in containing a possible outbreak. A major threat to public health and safety does indeed justify temporary harsh measures such as enforced (e.g., non-voluntary) quarantines, entrance refusals, travel bans, and similar such actions.
We should have done all of those weeks ago. If we had, we wouldn’t be sweating a widespread outbreak here today.
Yet is the keyword there.
The CDC came out and said it was easier to contract HIV than ebola. That tells me they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Yes, and that was obvious from reading CDCs own publications.
I guess you don’t feel like having sex if you have Ebola
Other people’s stupidity is a stupid reason to die.
What in hell was that nurse thinking, to travel AT ALL, after that close a case of contact with ebola? The answer is, she WASN’T thinking. Medicine isn’t a safe job. Your paramount responsibility is the care of others, and if it means turning your life on it’s ear because you got lucky enough to encounter a disease like this, then so be it. That woman, through her stupidity, denial or plain selfishness, could easily be the next Typhoid Mary.
Yep. Here’s one of several news stories released in the last hour or so documenting that fact.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/15/texas-health-care-worker-ebola-second-case/17290575/
Great. Just freaking great.
Canned food and shotguns, anyone?
I know you said that to be facitious, but it’s not a bad idea to stock up. This could all go sideways, and in a big hurry.
I carry at least a couple months of nonperishable goods at any given time. The only issue would be staying stocked up on wood and/or fuel oil for heating and enough gas for the generator for the same length of time.
PN. This was expected. It was anticipated. There are additional cases not yet diagnosed and there will be many others. Ebola is here and the government is in charge. Until all travel from West Africa is stopped and those with the contagion, as well as those likely to have been exposed to it, are consolidated and isolated, the virus will be moving hither and yon. As for medical personnel and staff at local hospitals, ill trained and ill equipped as they are to deal with Ebola, I imagine many are looking for other work about now. Who wants to work as a housekeeper, nursing assistant, or file clerk in a local hospital right now?
I currently work in a local hospital, and although I now work in health information, I was originally trained as a Nurse’s Aide. I will admit that there has been some serious soul-searching on whether or not I would go back into patient care, if the situation became extreme enough to warrant my returning to that side of the swinging doors.
All I can say about this being expected and anticipated is that if that is true, the level of denial and slipshod preparedness we’ve seen so far as a response is obscene.
Liberians have obviously been discussing what to do amongst themselves, and resolved that the ethical response is voluntary quarantine, just like the doctors who have treated patients and returned (but not the doctor that is really a news reporter. I suspect that explains why she is a reporter.)
http://www.wtop.com/267/3722455/Amid-Ebola-fear-West-Africans-in-US-try-to-help
Notice that neither the US government, WHO, nor the CDC are looking out for us, but individuals from Liberia are.
Ramen noodles and rifle rounds!
Ramen and Rounds!!
Just became my new battle cry. LOL
This is what comes from reducing payments for treating the uninsured/underinsured to the hospitals as the method to control costs.
So many small community hospitals are failing or are forced to merge with large health care systems (Texas Health Presbyterian) and a reduction in costs by cutting corners on expensive protocols and procedures for the uninsured/underinsured. It’s why this man was sent away, lots of small hospitals are struggling and if they know someone might require a bed that the government will reimburse at a reduced rate they tend to release a patient where they can and prescribe some meds hoping the patient becomes someone else’s issue.
It’s understandable that our society seeks to reduce the ever increasing costs of healthcare, but reducing payments for medicaid/medicare patients served at small hospitals wasn’t and isn’t the most effective method for starting the process. We have many small hospitals being taken over in Massachusetts for much the same reasoning, not making enough money to remain non-profit and independent anymore.
The ACA doesn’t fix any of that reality and hoping hospitals follow protocol won’t fix it either. With the CDC taking over control at the Texas hospital I suspect that hospital will lose a tone of money as well during their tenure.
VOV: invalid argument.
First: these two new infections were infected by Duncan after he was hospitalized. Both of the newly-diagnosed cases were in the group that cared for him after he was hospitalized.
Second: had Duncan never been admitted to the US (travel ban) or been quarantined on arrival for 21 days (entry quarantine), these cases would never have happened.
You may have an argument on an unrelated matter. But so far, hospital profit motive doesn’t seem to have been a factor here. Lackadasical, confused initial response, incompetence, and belief in unicorns seems to me to be what caused this mess.
At this point, let’s pray the 2nd case truly wasn’t symptomatic when she visited Cleveland – and that medical experts are correct when they say sufferers aren’t contagious prior to developing symptoms. Otherwise, we could be hosed bigtime.
I’m assuming he was turned away initially not necessarily due to incompetence but because testing is expensive and the expectation of ebola was low so the likelihood of a simpler flu virus was reason enough to avoid admitting him, being uninsured meant that admitting him would be at a loss on the basis of underpayments on reimbursement of these uninsured. That’s why I made the comments. Releasing him back into the wild to avoid incurring costs, I suspect that will happen a few more times at other hospitals as well. I hope not, but I won’t be surprised.
You might be correct in that incompetence or unintentional misdiagnosis occurred, I’ve seen many sick people sent home with meds instead of being admitted, usually those people are under or un-insured. Much of it because knowing that admitting them will be a loss leader for the facility.
Additionally there is some talk that the workers taking care of this man were not issued appropriate protective care, that would again speak directly to cost factors as the gear is expensive and the training to properly remove that care is a cost factor.
Don’t be so quick to rule out cost cutting as a baseline for lack of training or lack of adequate gear and care.
VOV: can’t agree, amigo. Incompetence was definitely IMO in play when he was first turned away.
On his first visit to the ER, Duncan indicated to whoever took his medical history that he’d just come to the US from West Africa – and I believe he specifically identified he’d just come from Liberia to the US a few days before. This was on 25 Sep – and the Ebola outbreak was big news by then. The medical personnel taking his history fed this info into their Med Info System. The system flagged his temp (103F) as being high enough as being of concern. And contrary to initial reports, the ER doctor who examined Duncan had access to all of this info.
Let’s see: patient newly arrived from Liberia, there’s a current Ebola outbreak in Liberia, patient has high fever, nausea, and is complaining of stomach pains. Even as a non-medical type, that would set off major alarms for me. Like, “Get this man into quarantine pronto – and get everyone here into PPE; this might be something really bad” alarms.
I have read repeatedly about travelers from the hot spots being “low risk,” which would be true if the person had not been around anybody that was sick. Indeed, on the second visit, the doctor noted that he specifically asked that question, and Duncan said “no.” I surmise it’s that kind of answer that, if true, would place them in the “low risk” class.
What worries me is the incubation period before an ebola victim exhibits signs and symptoms. How sure are they that it can’t be spread before symptoms develop?
I’ll use an analogy from my line of work. Any time we respond to an incident involving downed power lines, we have to stand back until the utility provider confirms that the lines have been de-energized. Once their guy says it’s safe, we always respond with, “Okay, YOU go touch it, then we’ll call it safe.”
Do the CDC folks feel comfortable hanging out with somebody who’s known to be infected, but not yet showing signs and symptoms, without any BSI precautions? Somehow I doubt that the answer is YES.
How many more cases will we see over the next few months? I’m worried. I enjoy watching “The Last Ship,” but that doesn’t mean I want to experience that scenario for real.
Talking about this in definitive terms isn’t good – it should be coached in probabilistic terms. Whether or not the virus spreads depends on the presence of live virus in a host’s bodily fluids, which in turn depends on both the progression from a site of infection and the overall viral load -the ‘amount’ of the virus- in an infected host.
As the virus progresses, and as the viral load increases, the chances of spreading it go up considerably. In effect, you have an S-curve, where ‘pre-symptomatic’ people are very low on the curve and as people near death, and their viral load is high, the chance of infection through contact without appropriate protective gear is pretty damn high.
Of course, ‘pre-symptomatic’ could mean vastly different things for different people, and that’s part of the problem. On the whole, health officials need to strike the proper balance of explaining the risks and inducing panic. Based on what we know, “It can’t spread before symptoms appear” is a good guideline since I imagine it covers the vast majority of scenarios – the kinds most people will encounter.
The short version: For any given person, chances are that’s true. In some rare cases, it might not be.
Hondo, you made me collectively better and worst at the same time.
I am still astounded at the level of incompetence. Who thinks Obama actually attends any of the updates on this? He ignores his security briefings, why would he go to this one?
ISIS, Ebola, Mexican Drug cartels on the border….gawd I feel so much safer then 8 years ago.
Guess I’m making a trip to COSCO this weekend. I’ve let the pantry slip below stockage levels…it’s just a good idea to maintain a level of supplies in any event.
“it’s just a good idea to maintain a level of supplies in any event.”
Yes, yes it is.
Food, water, and ammo.
The ‘prepper’s ‘rule of three’s’:
3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter
3 days without water
and
3 weeks without food
Anybody who cares about their family and themselves is WAY more prepared to deal with way more than just the rule of 3s, but it’s a place to start….
Don’t forget toilet paper!
That’s no joke, and preppers will tell you that paper products are one of the first things to fly off the shelves in a crisis.
+1 !!!!
You can use old phonebooks in a pinch.
I’d rather just use the pages. The phonebooks have problems going down the toilet.
My youngest is a nurse living in Fort Worth,last time we talked to working the hospitals in Ft. Worth as a traveling Nurse. Kathy says she makes more that way. Please no Prest. hospital in Dallas. If that Ebola takes off in the the DFW Metroplex . Seventy per cent of 50 million is quite a large number. the chances for spreading either trying to run away or seeking a health system not overburdened and further spreading it are great. Joe
My nephew and his family (3 kids, wife, etc.) live in Dallas-Ft. Worth. I am more than concerned about them, and with semester break coming in a few weeks, my sister will mostly likely fly down there to visit.
Not a happy camper about any of this.
Stockpiling food and water is smart when a hurricane, tornado or some such thing is on its way to your zip code but, for an Ebola outbreak, I don’t see it. You would have to withdraw from the world altogether and, even then, the world might come to you. No doctor visits, no dental visits, no shopping (even for fuel or batteries); no school for kids of school age and no job, of course. No seeing friends and relatives and certainly no travel by airliner, bus, or train. What else? Oh, no sporting events, visits to the watering hole, the bank, post office, place of worship, or most anywhere else. No, I don’t think so. Not me.
That sounds like normal preparedness for winter in our community. We fully retired folks just stay home when the weather is bad or the roads icy. We are prepared to do so for weeks, if necessary. Just how we opted to be so that we can maintain our choices of how to live without imposing upon friends and neighbors.
2/17AirCav, I have lived in the north since I was 5. I don’t go out in the winter unless I absolutely have to, especially when the snow is coming. I stock everything well ahead of storms, the second I hear a forecast for bad weather.
Sporting events? What’s a TV for, anyway? And seeing friends or relatives? What is Skype for, if not that? Come on! You don’t have to cut your life down to nothing. You merely adjust.
Oh, I get all of that. But kids still go to school throughout the winter months and folks still go to the doctor, dentist, stores, and church. What I am saying is that this isn’t like a storm–or a cold, hard winter, for that matter–such that folks can retreat from the world and escape the threat of Ebola. Those in outlying areas of the country are in the safest position–until those from urban, high-risk areas decide to join them, anyway.
I know, and I wasn’t being facetious or attempting to imply that I take this lightly. I don’t. But neither will I let this limit my life or what I do.
And Pinto Nag is right: NEVER QUIT.
Fear, dismay, and even depression are a normal first response to something like this, but don’t let them be the LAST response, okay? Common sense — which I think you have in abundance — will go a long way to ensure your survival. Helping your friends and family prepare is one way to help, both them and yourself.
NEVER QUIT.
Stockpiling isn’t about protecting yourself from something so specific as the Ebola Virus, it’s about protecting yourself against the possible collapse, or partial collapse of segments of our infrastructure. Shopping and school would be irrelevant in such an instance.
This one report was what finally got me motivated to take prepping more seriously than just the 3 days to 3 weeks’ worth of supplies that FEMA recommends;
http://www.trucking.org/ATA%20Docs/What%20We%20Do/Image%20and%20Outreach%20Programs/When%20Trucks%20Stop%20America%20Stops.pdf
However, 3 weeks of supplies is a good start, and damned cheap to do.
My contempt for this (lack of) administration and its braindead approach to any kind of crisis grows deeper and deeper. I won’t say we are SO screwed, although I almost feel that way.
I see no excuse for how this has been handled when it could have been prevented in the first place. The disconnect from reality (which I have bitched about before) exhibited by that jackass in the White House just blows my mind.
We are basically on our own in this. And instead of panicking, stay informed on every update, use common sense in everything, and if there is anything that seems to help, not based on rumor, go for it.
There was a news story last night that honeysuckle has been found to have a molecule that fights and kills the influenza virus. You can get honeysuckle tea at shops that practice traditional Chinese medicine, and they will instruct on how to use it. You might try that in this cold and flu season, but get your flu shot, too.
Like I said, use some common sense. I’m as angry about this as the rest of you.
Just the briefest look at the ineptitude and incompetence of B. Hussein 0bama & Company since they took the helm tells me that they have as much concern about the public health as the Kim family does about the average north Korean. Has B. Hussein 0bama ever been even remotely concerned about anything other than his next round of golf, vacation, or fundraiser?
No, he hasn’t.
The photo of him on the phone with the ‘ebola concerns’ headline had him in his golfing jacket.
That says it all.
What strikes me is that while America is increasingly (and justifiably) concerned about Ebola here, we sent (or will be sending) more than 3,000 troops over to that virus-incubation shithole. Is it possible that even liberal, progressive America will now say, “Bring them back, now. The rsk to them is too great!” No, I don’t think so, either. But it would be nice.
So, you expect that they will come home at all? I really don’t.
Not what I want to see, but I simply can fathom no other way out of this bunch.
Hey, I have one last item. It’s cold and flu season or soon will be. It sounds to me that the symptoms of Ebola–at least early on–and the flu are similar. What the hell are doctors’ offices, clinics, hospitals, and health centers going to do when the flu hits in force, ask each patient if they have been to West Africa within the past 30 days?
I believe that the United States is perfectly capable of stopping this virus cold. However, I know for a fact that in order to accomplish that end, the US will have to take actions reasonably calculated to bring about that desired result.
We already know that other countries in Africa have shut down flareups of the disease, because they closed their borders and quarantined travelers. We can do the same. But, if we fail to take those steps, we WILL have it here, and it will come by airplane. Alternative methods, such as crossing the borders to our north and south, are not really alternatives, because they als involve airplanes, and we know how to track travelers.
Travel here by boat takes longer, and involves a type of quarantine.
We are fully capable of imposing a temporary quarantine on travelers who have recently been to ebola hot-spots. We can give them the choice of voluntary, which would be more comfortable, or involuntary, which would be less so.
Responsible people such as doctors and ordinary travelers, have already begun to do this voluntarily. All we have to pick up now are the liars and opportunists.
“All we have to pick up now are the liars and opportunists.” Which as those who follow this site and the Stolen Valor frauds know, are everywhere among us. The sad truth, Valaerie, is that there are far too many people in this world who never think through the consequences of their actions before they choose to act. Even worse are those who do realize the consequences but are so self absorbed that they disregard the harm they may cause to others.
Your statement is sadly true; sadly because it means that the rest of us are dependent upon the lowest common denominators in society, not a good situation for positive outcomes.
The cynic in me says that the regime has set up several scenarios purposefully, any one of which could justify the implementation of martial law. We are getting there, folks.
What I find amazing in these comments is no one has raised the issue of the possible fate of all our military personnel this incompetent administration ordered to Africa without fully understanding the risks involved, as we are now learning.
Yes, because they are military, we can forceably quarantine them but what if there is an outbreak among them? Are they being housed in close quarters in typical military fashion where they could become infected in large numbers? If that happens, do we bring them back here for treatment or isolate them in some remote area and hope that our military health system possesses the capability to deal with a large scale outbreak? what if that system itself is overwhelmed?
Even if we bring our troops out of Africa before any become infected, how many of them will want to expose their families to risk without a significant quarantine period?
This president and the incompetent fools who surround him are guilty of gross negligence in the way this entire situation has been handled from the outset. Regardless of what more we learn about Ebola, we have learned for sure that political correctness is itself a deadly contagion.
Poetrooper: if there is an outbreak among the deployed troops, the sad fact is a large fraction will contract the disease. No, they won’t be staying in anything resembling private apartments. They’ll almost certainly be in typical deployment conditions – communal dining, several (or more) to a room or tent, common toilet/shower/other sanitary facilities, etc. . . .
In other words: they’ll be living in close quarters, like soldiers do when they’re deployed. You tell me if you think it will be easy to isolate anyone who becomes ill under those condition quickly enough to avoid passing the disease along to anyone else.
FWIW: WHO now pegs the best estimate for the mortality rate for this Ebola outbreak at 70% – not the 50% previously estimated.
You are not alone. Some of us have discussed it, and expect to never see or hear from any of the troops sent there.
Cannot think of another occasion when I have prayed so diligently to be proven wrong.
I know a guy through an internet forum who is in Liberia right now. So far, things seem to be going good for them.
Here’s hoping it stays that way.
“What I find amazing in these comments is no one has raised the issue of the possible fate of all our military personnel this incompetent administration ordered to Africa….” Somebody did. See my 1:30 p.m. comment above.
2/17 Air Cav…I raised the issue before on an earlier thread about this. I am even more convinced now that we should not send troops to try to help this situation. The threats are far outweighing the possible benefits. ONLY trained and well equipped health care workers should be allowed to travel there. Out troops, no matter how many seminars, Power Point presentations and dress rehearsals are not designed, trained or prepared for this type of mission. I also ask again, what are their ROE going to be? Will they be allowed to use deadly force to protect themselves if attacked by those infected, as has already happened several times to aid workers, sometimes having resulted in their deaths.
Cav, I read the column before your comment posted but foolishly didn’t go back and double check before posting my own comment. Sorry. OFD strikes again.
No problemo. I have no doubt others thought of our troops, just as you and I did.
Sparks. Sorry, I didn’t see your post. Yes, we covered this earlier in another thread. The thing is, most of America didn’t give a shit b/c it didn’t affect them or theirs. Now, however, look at the level of concern all over the country, now that Ebola is here. Suddenly, it matters to the 99% of Americans who didn’t give a shit before Duncan’s arrival, when ONLY American troops were at risk.
CDC Director, Dr. Thomas Friedman…the guy with the little body and BIG head. Literally and figuratively…is an Obama appointee. Like most of Obama’s appointees, he gets his marching orders and “Don’t Worry, Be Happy” press releases from the White House. I don’t trust anything he says any longer. Meanwhile, the Obama machine says it is for economic reasons, we can’t restrict travel to and from Africa. (I say ALL of Africa because it is easy to get from Liberia to South Africa and then to the U.S. Thus the need for mandatory quarantine of all travelers from that continent, if their visas show an origin in any of the outbreak regions.) Economic reasons? I guess because the areas of outbreak are propping up such a great percentage of the American economy we have to allow this travel. More Obama BS. I am not by nature an alarmist. However the article from the Nurse’s Union from reports of staff attending Mr. Duncan sound like pure lunacy on the part of the hospital. Upon his admission the second time he should have been in maximum quarantine. Not in an open ER room area for the days he was. Also Dallas Presbyterian Hospital is a very large facility. For the staff there to not have the proper protective gear for 3 days makes no sense to me. The “we’ve ordered them but they haven’t arrived” statement shows the level of concern and knowledge of what they were dealing with. Of course if they were taking advice from the CDC on the “protocol” then no wonder it was all business as usual. Obama, the CDC, the WHO are doing nothing of substance to to curb this. My money says Obama will NOT take any grave measures on this until after mid terms. Why? I could not tell you because it makes no sense to me. To Obama, I am sure it makes great sense not to deal with this yet because it could have a negative outcome on the elections, call to attention his inaction, and thereby draw criticism to himself and every candidate… Read more »
I never mind a long post when it’s interesting to read. Your posts always are interesting to read, Sparks.
And in this case, what you’ve said is helpful, also. We find ourselves at the beginning of a crisis of profound proportions. We also find ourselves without any really useful direction or guidance from the very institutions we thought we would be able to count on. So now, it appears that our survival falls back on our own shoulders. To make the proper decisions to maximize our survival, we have to first WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND WHAT IS HAPPENING. To do that, we have to talk about it, get a mental picture of it, figure out the pros and cons, and share information on what we know and don’t, what we have to do and shouldn’t. All of the posts on this thread are not only important, but vital, because we are all in the process of gathering information.
Pinto Nag…Thank you. In regards to what you posted I agree. It may soon be coming time when in the face of wrong, suspect or no answers, to err on the side of the worst case and prepare accordingly.
Yes, but you need to get it out of your system.
There is really no harm in speaking your mind.
The original link appears to be gone….There is this NYT times link that talks about “silent infections” and immunity, etc…Let me see if I can go another way to get the link for you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/health/ebola-immunity.html?_r=0
oops wrong comment…should have gone down one.
Did you see that this nurse got on a fucking airplane the night before she was sick? 132 people could be at risk and yet, the hospital will not order those who treated Duncan to isolation because of political correctness and not wanting to “scare” people!!!
Whomever is the head of Infectious Disease in her hospital should be fired for failure to keep people safe, and failure to assure that the RN staff understood that they could potentially be infectious to others for 21 days past the time they cared for Mr. Duncan. HFS, Batman!
This disease is shedding before people show symptoms~~we are in big trouble if the borders are not shut and travel is not stopped to and from Africa.
What the hell is wrong with the people who are supposed to know? They are putting us all at risk!
Defend, can you post a backup for the part about shedding the virus before being symptomatic?
Thanks!
Here ya go Ex-PH2.
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/health/062700hth-ebola.html
Jacobite: that article is from 14 years ago. What that article describes is consistent with what we now know about Ebola’s incubation period, which can be up to 21 days long.
This article gives a bit more info – it hints at the possibility, but only in passing mention.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/10/15/ebola-stricken-nurse-flew-on-a-passenger-plane-a-day-before-being-diagnosed/
That article may be 14 years old, but it is saying something that I haven’t heard ‘officially’ yet.
That it IS transmittable by people who are asymptomatic, AND some humans CAN be carriers despite testing negative for it and not coming down with it at all.
Defend – it’s worse than that. She was apparently running a low grade fever when got on the plane.
The CDC is who she was reporting to, not the hospital. Blame them for not keeping tabs on her.
“Shit! Even mainstream media are reporting that the Big Boy is out fundraising and stumping while the country is transfixed on this Ebola mess.”
“Better let him know. He thinks it’s just Fox. Oh, and when you do, strongly suggest that he summon the cabinet for an immediate meeting.”
“Got it. Wait. The whole cabinet? Why in hell does he need the secretaries of education, labor, energy, housing, treasury, and veteran affairs for?”
“Just do it. It looks good.”
Holy shit.
This is starting to spiral out of control real quick-like.
I really wanted to post Bobby McFerrin singing ‘Don’t Worry-Be Happy’, but I just could not bring myself to do so.
It is not out of control, and if, as I said, you use some common sense about everything you take for granted, stay informed and aware, and take NOTHING for granted, you’ll most likely come out of this intact.
Just pay attention to what is going on.
Am I the only one who thinks the current Occupant, 1600 Penn Ave, Wash DC, bears more than a passing resemblance to a somewhat thinner-in-the-face version of Mad Magazine’s Alfred E. Newman?
I’m trying to.
I’m hoping that Hillsdale’s out of the way locale will keep me out of the line of fire until this passes over.
Check out this BBC video, and this quote: “Ebola got a head start on us,” Anthony Banbury, head of the UN Mission for Ebola Emergency Response, told the United Nations Security Council.
“It is far ahead of us, it is running faster than us, and it is winning the race,” he said. “We either stop Ebola now or we face an entirely unprecedented situation for which we do not have a plan.”
Go ahead and say it, chuckles — it could become an Extinction Level Event.
KNOE news has this article posted on their website:
http://www.knoe.com/story/26781917/who-ebola-death-rate-increases-to-70-percent
Note that the estimate for an increase in the spread is now 10,000 per month if it is not stopped within the next 60 days.
This is where I ask if we and WHO are taking this seriously, as is everyone else in the world, why do we see people who are NOT doing that? Do they think it is nothing but a bad cold?
Reports are now posted that the nurse had the fever while on the airliner.
Yes, they want to interview all of the 130 or so passengers and crew b/c there is absolutely no reason for concern. How could there be when West Africans are arriving here daily–and screening for fever began at JFK Saturday and will begin at other airports tomorrow–unless someone forgets to read the non-invasive thermometers boxes (“Batteries not included.”)
. . . unless someone forgets to read the non-invasive thermometers boxes (“Batteries not included.”)
. . . which experts say don’t work worth a damn for this purpose anyway.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/01/ebola-prevention-thermal-scanner-effective-placebo
The only way you can actually diagnose this disease in someone is through a blood test, right? A fever won’t tell you anything.
What if the person being scanned is merely coming down with a mild upper respiratory infection acquired on the plane, because some passenger kept coughing on him? That doesn’t mean he has ebola.
Seriously, in the good ideas catalog, this is the dumbest one cooked up so far.
And the reason this is being done is that bodaprez, the most incompetent asshole who ever got that job, wants everyone to like him.
Remember his little tantrum (they blamed me!!!) about being blamed for the illegal immigrant problem in the southwest this past summer? He was PEEVED! Peeved, I tell you! How could anyone blame that on him??????
This is a real, dyed in the wool world-level crisis, and he can’t handle it. Hell, he probably can’t even handle his own weewee.
This article from Forbes magazine references a PLOS study which shows that a 21-day quarantine period may be insufficient.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonfortenbury/2014/10/15/21-days-not-a-long-enough-quarantine-for-ebola-according-to-new-study/
Heck, the 14 year old article I linked to you up above says a person could spread this thing and a) never show symptoms, and b)never actually catch it themselves.
Fact is it seems like a whole shit-pot full of assumptions are being made by the powers that be on woefully inadequate research.
Here is a point I find a bit confusing.
I’m not a PhD….or a rocket scientist.
BUT..I do know that the Ebola Virus is a Biosafety Level IV pathogen…..and requires specific handling and quarantine methods that are NOT available Dallas Presbyterian hospital.
In fact, the nearest level IV facilities are in Galveston ( 2 ) and San Antonio ( 1 )…and of the 15 level IV facilities in the nation, NOT ONE of them is in Dallas.
At what point did the brain trust at the CDC decide is was okay to treat Ebola in Dallas?
And why are they now surprised and fumbling around with “we probably could have done better” trite bullshit when they should have moved the patients to a level IV at the onset??
In what scenario was it okay to think “oh, we can handle this”?
Right now we have the keystone kops trying to contain what someone earlier termed ( quite correctly) the biological equivalent of plutonium.
Nice job….glad we got this under control Dr Friedman.
And the 2nd health care worker infected with ebola was known to have a fever, but still allowed to fly.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-health-official-allowed-new-ebola-patient-on-plane-with-slight-fever/ar-AA6SMSo
I mean, seriously, do these idiots actually expect us to believe anything they say now, about how very careful they’re being?
God help us, they are more dangerous than the disease itself.
Doc Savage: well, moving the individual to a Level IV facility would have contradicted the CDC Director. Friedman had previously said that “any major hospital” can handle an Ebola patient.
Frankly, I wish he’d been correct. But reality – and recent history – kinda argues otherwise. Persuasively.
Too bad scoring political points was more important here than public safety – or, potentially, human lives. But I can’t say I’m shocked, either.
I’ve been following this since late summer.
One article I found that should give everyone a need for a change of shorts-
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/09/commentary-health-workers-need-optimal-respiratory-protection-ebola
In short it says the definition of airborne is antiquated at best. It also explains how, even with PPE, healthcare workers are likely to succumb.
As was said earlier, the sicker someone gets, the higher their viral load. As they expel from north and south orifices, virus-laden droplets are in fact airborne for seconds to hours depending on ambient temps, airflow, humidity, etc. Those droplets are too small to be caught by standard PPE and require full face masks AT LEAST but positive air flow, contained air supply, etc is better
Next on the worry list is the need for control of the air circulation in the room with the patient. Then let’s talk about dedicated water/waste water treatment. Of course the little critters die nicely and quickly with a little chlorine bleach, but, hospitals don’t use that. How are the sheets, gowns, towels and other non disposables being taken out of the room? As infectious materials and being burned or bleached? According to the Nursees union, no.
Still, the biggest take away for me is the simple fact that the definition and classification the CDC and everyone else is using for airborne is predicated on standards developed-and not updated-in 60 years. But even by those measures, it is still existent in arerosolized droplets.
The parts that bother me the most is the CDC issued warnings to airlines months ago to issue face masks to any passenger with respiratory symptoms because of those droplets and yet they keep insisting it’s not airborne
To quote our favorite former Secy of State, “what difference does it make?” Aerosol droplets vs airborne. To the health care workers, none.
My sister in law and niece are both nurses -just outside Chicago-and both are worried.
Chicago, where Jesse Jackass brought Duncan’s roommates.
We have health care workers who knew about he dangers of EBOLA and giving the very best care they could give to the man. Yet he died, and infected two medical professionals with it.
We have one of the best, if not the best hospital systems in the world.
unless the stakes are racked up higher a few dozen cases in a single US city could wreck it.
We need to stop free travel from those contries and insist of 30 day quarantine before they even fly
PH-2
Here is another link…
http://www.inquisitr.com/1541821/ebola-is-airborne-university-of-minnesota-cidrap-researchers-claim/
Thanks, Defend.
And this showed up this morning:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dallas-officials-warn-more-ebola-cases-could-be-coming/ar-BB9f1Zn
Right now, the worst job in the world is that of politician/official rep, especially in this poorly-understood event.
However, I do feel that the more infor we collect – real info, not rumors – and the more we know, the better off we are.
Here’s some additional news this morning.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/16/cdc-considers-adding-names-people-monitored-for-ebola-to-no-fly-list/
On my local news, the story was that they actually ARE on the no-fly list now.
Also, Dr. Friedbrain of the CDC is supposed to testify before Congress today about the mistakes the CDC has made since this crisis began. I haven’t found a link to that, but it might be on C-SPAN.
On another note, the furnace runs fine, but my thermostat has to be replaced. So far, this is not life-threatening, but while I’d like to use the sledgehammer approach, I will simply replace it and see how that works, and save the sledgehammer for more important things.
From the WP 10-15
The second health-care worker diagnosed with Ebola had a fever of 99.5 degrees Fahrenheit before boarding a passenger jet on Monday, a day before she reported symptoms of the virus and was tested, according to public health officials.”
Okay a little help here. I would think a nurse knows the feeling sof a low grade fever, thus why did she fly instead of shelter in place and call medics, knowing she had treated Duncan.
Second upon arriving DFW, again knowing she had treated Duncan, why did she no go immediately to DP Hospital. Additionally, calling them ahead, because I am sure was name was on the watch list for symptoms, tell them of he fever and she was heading there. This was she could have been met in a less than usual public entrance by biohazard suited workers and ushered immediately into quarantine until the incubation period passes. I HOPE she didn’t just walk in through main entrances for the ER, among waiting patients, go through the usual intake paperwork and then to an ER exam room to be sure before anyone panics.
Anyone who knows more helpful information, chain of events and details, please enlighten me.
Sparks: read the CNN link I posted in reply to 2/17 Air Cav on my Ebola article for today. She was NOT on any watch list for air travel at the time (arguably she should have been). And before boarding her flight, she contacted CDC for guidance, told them she was about to fly, told them she had a low (99.5F) fever. The CDC rep did NOT tell her to stay put.