Warm & Fuzzy Navy adapts to Millennials
Apparently, someone thinks that Millennials are an entirely different race of humans who need to be handled differently than their predecessors in Naval service according to a link sent to us by Louis to Military.com;
The U.S. Navy is looking for ways to adapt its training for millennials, young people raised in a child-centric culture who want and expect nurturing relationships with their bosses, the commanding officer of the submarine school in Groton said Friday.
Navy Capt. Andrew Jarrett, a self-described member of ‘Generation X,’ said that as commander of the submarine school he has made it a priority to focus on mentoring.
“For millennials, it’s very important for them to have a relationship with their boss, just like they had with their parents,” Jarrett said during a talk with a submarine veterans’ group. “They don’t want to be friends but they want you to care about them and give them feedback.”
While some see the craving for feedback as a weakness, Jarrett said it could be a benefit if it’s embraced by the Navy. He said the chief of naval operations has indicated his office is reviewing changes that may help tailor training for the new generation of sailors and officers.
The thing that has made the military culture so successful is that we’ve always made newbies to adapt to the existing culture, not adapting the culture to some civilian standard of behavior. I think the Navy is getting this backwards. But, you know, this what I’ve come to expect from Mabus and the boys in the damper services. They’re so fricken smart that they know better than history.
Category: Navy
I call bullshit, Double bullshit with a huge helping of Horse shit to round out the pure bull shit.
Did I mention that i think he is full of shit?
These guys are in the Navy, not day care or a fucking love circle. DO your Job, do it to the best of your ability and get some satisfaction out of knowing you did the best you can.
I’m sure that there are some Senior Chiefs (Real ones, of course) that can provide a nurturing and warm mentoring experience. Ass chewings just show that you care very very much.
Geez. One of the best things about our military was that it took whatever stupid culture baggage you were carrying and beat it to death. So you would be part of a tight knit team.
Navy Capt Andrew Jarrett needs to be put in command of the Unicorn Fart detail.
Fen, that sounds like a pretty spectacular detail. Are you sure?
Being the skipper of the Unicorn Fart Program sounds like something that’ll get you promoted to Admiral and eventually CNO….
Just sayin’, careful what you ask for.
Great!! How about us older vets who’ve had our feelings hurt by “bosses” get reparations? It’s only fair…
Now we have group hugs on subs. Our military grows softer every day and our enemies are more numerous than ever. Capt. Jarret needs to put on his big-boy pants and be a leader, not everyone’s buddy.
It’s not a nurturing atmosphere they get from their parents. It’s more of a I’m friend first then parent maybe occasionally. They’ve been doing it to the Air Force for a while already. I get a sternly worded lecture from a superior when I rip an airman a new one for screwing up consistently.
It’s all part of the plan of demoralizing and destroying our military.
Digging a regulation fighting position on a Saturday morning is a great way of providing feedback. It says “You fucked up. Now you can either get smarter or you can get stronger. Your choice.”
hahahahaha My platoon sergeant hung a rope (about as big around as my forearm) in a tree and used to make me climb it several times a day. Well … not just me, but I did spend a fair amount climbing too.
I think this song sums it all up!
🙂
Hope you are not lumping the Marines in with the damper services, I can assure you, the infantry is still it’s “caring and nurturing” self.
I’ve heard when the ice cream machine breaks while at sea
….shit gets real.
Steadfast&Loyal…AND THANK YOU!!! I just spit coffee all over my laptop and that’s no shit. Thanks for the laugh! I needed it this morning. You ‘da man!
Just wait til the water heater in the head stops working.
What the actual f…
Next thing you know you’ll get Commanders waking up in a drunken stupor on the couches of PO3s in the name of “nurturing”.
Something tells me a considerable number of sailors are about to get a little too close for comfort.
“I think the Navy is getting this backwards.” – Jonn Lilyea
The Navy has been going at it backwards since the mid 1990s. Something about a “war for bodies” to fight against attrition against retention losses.
All of a sudden, it wasn’t cool to hold people accountable for their mistakes. As the turn of the millennium turned into the first decade of the millennium, holding irresponsible Sailors accountable for their actions became, “treating them like shit.”
When a Sailor complained to the chain of a command that a certain service wasn’t available… because regs and laws would be broken… the Sailor that failed to plan didn’t get held accountable… didn’t get his ass handed to him for not using his brain… nope… the people that refused to break regs became the demons that needed to be chastised and straightened out.
I’ve seen the results of this on Navy bases today.
I could never go back to serving in the Navy… I’ve even talked someone out of joining the Navy, and into joining the Army instead.
Speaking of which, what I saw in the Navy back in the mid ’90s, I’m seeing happening in the Army today.
I’ve already been told that my old school cold war era + combat arms style leadership was “creating a hostile environment.” The message I got? I had to “coddle and be nurturing” for today’s Soldiers… who grew up on video games and other things we didn’t have when we were going up.
…and they wonder why I’m planning on transferring to one of the other control groups when the Army realizes that I’m long overdue a “20 year letter.”
Nothing new here.
I just threw up in my mouth a little. FFS… This crap belongs on the Duffleblog.
“But, you know, this what I’ve come to expect from Mabus and the boys in the damper services.”
Are you saying you think the Navy is all wet, Jonn? (smile)
Amerido Berrios (Facebook commenter): a fair case can be made that it already started – over 21 years ago, on Februrary 26, 1993.
See the post on “Thanks for Your Service”.
Here is one guy we could cut and save a few bucks to help out the cause.
Oh dear.
Brings to mind a slight modification of an H.L. Mencken quote: “The sailors want feedback, and they will get it, good and hard.”
The infantilization of America continues. I see it in the Coast Guard with both young officers and enlisted who want everything done for them — as if the Coast Guard is now a self-realization retreat with counselors and handservants.
You want to know how to develop a deep and abiding relationship with your boss? Screw up. The Master Chief will accomodate.
You want an even deeper and more abiding relationship with the CO or XO? Screw up again and the green tablecloth will come out.
Unfortunately, I have been told that my views are not in alignment with current “dealing with people” standards. And so we have a Nanny Service where parents who were unable to properly raise their children because they wanted to be “friends” with their offspring, now look to the military to do their jobs for them.
And so, in four years they expect us to also be “friends” in developing their kids despite the proven 18-year record of failure in doing so.
And don’t think there isn’t a political element to this. Obama and his ilk don’t want those young Americans to become independent and responsible, which is what they historically detest about veterans. They want young, dependant individuals who cannot think for themselves and who develop a lifelong reliance on government programs.
What better way to do that than to indoctrinate “lifelong reliance” than when they are in the military.
Yeah, don’t call a non-qual on a submarine a “nub.”
I wish I was kidding.
Nub? I got called a fucking DINK by everyone that wore fish, any of which could grab my qual card and ream me out. Taught me not to be a fucking dink. Passed that shit on too.
Look, all I’d ever want is feedback. If I’m making a mistake, tell me. If I’m doing good, just say “good job”, and that’s all I’ll need to know. If I could be better, say “hey, could you do this?”
This started long ago and now we’re seeing the results. Sad.
I remember being told by a Battalion Commander in the late 90s that there was no room in his Battalion for my old Army way of thinking. Reckon I wasn’t warm and fuzzy enough…
I gave feedback all the time. I do believe it was the Volume level that they had a problem with. Capt Jarrett if you are truely a member of GenX you do not say it for one. Secondly we hate Millennials, and pretty much everybody. We do not coddle very well.
“Yes Sir, Sounds like a great plan Sir.”
Waaaaaay back in 1920, General John Lejeune wrote thusly about the relationships between officers and subordinates:
“Young Marines respond quickly and readily to the exhibition of qualities of leadership on the part of their officers. Each officer must endeavor by all means in his power to develop within himself those qualities of leadership, including industry, justice, self-control, unselfishness, honor, and courage, which will fit him to be a real leader of men and which will aid in establishing the relationship described below.
The spirit of comradeship and brotherhood in arms which has traditionally existed throughout the ranks of the Marine Corps is a vital characteristic of the Corps. It must be fostered and kept alive and made the moving force in all Marine Corps organizations.
The relation between officers and enlisted men should in no sense be that of superior and inferior nor that of master and servant, but rather that of teacher and scholar. In fact, it should partake of the nature of the relation between father and son, to the extent that officers, especially commanders, are responsible for the physical, mental, and moral welfare, as well as the discipline and military training of the men under their command who are serving the Nation in the Marine Corps.”
You can read the rest of what he wrote at https://www.mcu.usmc.mil/lleadership/LLI%20site%20documents/LDDS/Relations%20Between%20Officers%20and%20Men.pdf.
Leadership distilled into one page of five paragraphs. It worked for the Greatest Generation and it’s worked for Generation X, Generation Y, Generation Z, and whatever other generational names the social scientists and soothsayers have come up with since 1920.
Don’t see why it won’t work for “Millenials” as well.
The 0baminization of our Military continues. It’s worse than the Clintonization of the early 90’s, which was one of the main reasons I ETS’ed back then!
Gee, during my “A” school my motivation for remaining in the training pipeline involved having choices. I could choose to go to extra study at night, or I could choose to go to the fleet as an undesignated striker and scrape rust off of hulls or sludge out of bilges. I chose extra study.
At language school it was pass the course or be reassigned for the good of the Army.
No one thought they were serious… till a few guys got sent from Monterey to tanker school. I, for one, went from mediocre student to Honor Graduate. Momma didn’t raise no fool.
David,same thing with my Aviation Maintenance (67N) AIT at Fort Rucker. They told us if you flunk out,you can eat noon chow here and evening chow at Fort Benning. The 46 passenger bus leaves everyday at 1400 hours for the trip north. Pretty good motivator.
I enlisted at 17 was a BT1(SW), Oil King, REP V Officer and EOOW at 25 … Chief first time up!
Screw these whiners and the leaders who are rubbing their bellies!
I’m telling my daughter to go to college on an NROTC scholarship and then join the Navy. She’ll kick ass and take names. Or is that the job of some other branch?
I grew up really quick when I got to boot back in ’86. Sure, they couldn’t hit us but, generally, you don’t need to assault someone to teach them the error of their ways.
I read a story that said the Navy surveyed 5,000 sailors and discovered that they don’t like cruises and they don’t like the Zero Defect culture. You don’t like going to sea and you joined the Navy? Zero defect culture? I kind of like that in my military services.
I remember when I was a young squid, I put a cotter pin into an ammo handling belt on MT22 incorrectly and, upon cycling the gun, the pin became disengaged and the belt was wrecked. Several hours later (after being reamed by my CPO, ordering the replacement parts, assembling the belts by myself and go/no-go checking the links) I had learned a very valuable lesson about cotter pin installation and mercy. I could have been demoted. Can you imagine if this had happened during combat? “Sorry that misslie hit us guys….I forgot how to put in a cotter pin.”
Which is ironic since these days the military is kicking people out based on a “zero defect” culture. Get one bad eval? Fuck you and go away.
Sadly, even my beloved Corps is being hit by this.
I EAS’ed in ’10. About 6 months before I left, there was some shit going around about a squad leader who got NJP’d for having his boots write essays because they screwed up. Essays. Not “push till you puke, then push some more”, not for digging a hole to China at midnight on Saturday night. We were subsequently told we couldn’t make them do pushups unless we did them with them.
What a crock of shit. That “hostile environment” doesn’t hold a candle to combat ops. How much you want to bet these fuckers freeze the second the enemy appears, much less starts shooting at them or blows them up?
I got jacked up at Ft Hood once for working some of my troops past 1800 without permission from the first O6 in the chain. Had a broke down truck. Parts came in at 1630 so me and the crew worked late to get it going. This was Friday and we were hitting the field Monday. Everyone was home by 1900. Somebody cried and I spent Sunday afternoon getting reamed by a BN Cdr and CSM with no support from my CO or 1SG.
But you know what? That truck rolled out to the field Monday morning instead of sitting in M/P.
Wow. Just…wow. That is messed up. Seriously.
What would Chesty Puller say?
I wasn’t in the Navy. But…in every branch, standards MUST be high and sailors and troops need to be RAISED to those standards of behavior and performance, by harsh measures as was the case in my service. You take a guy off the street, get the street out of his head and then put the military in there. The right way, the wrong way and the military way and the military way must come first, last and always. You cannot maintain a fighting force without common standards for all.
My DS was NOT MY FRIEND! Neither were my senior NCOs I reported to or my Officers. They were my LEADERS and I was the follower.
If this continues and bleeds into the other branches, we may as well recruit Boy Scouts for the next big deployment.
Sarcastically, maybe they can get ship’s Captain, XO and MCPOs to rotate duty of sharing a rack and blanket and familiar bedtime stories with each guy onboard. Instead of a good conduct medal or a letter of appreciation it could be “Hey Seaman, you did a great job and didn’t even cry this time! So, the Captain has said that tonight you sleep next to him and there will be cookies, milk and a nice Dr. Seuss story or two! Great job today by the way. The head is actually gleaming!”
“ATTENTION, pals, the Captain will now read tonight’s bedtime story…”
Yeah, I wonder how that ‘feel good’ stuff will work out when there’s a real emergency, a torpedo bomb hitting a ship or a live missile coming at it. Or what will they do when they face the hotile environment of real-world warfare.
These infantile children have yet to deal with the real world in which Americans are not universally liked or superior, and are viewed as just something to be killed. They haven’t seen that kind of reality. I pity them when they do. They might cry.
How many “Parents” have to knowingly send their children into harms way? How many parents are told “NO” when they ask their children to clean their room or take the trash out? How many of these parents have ever given an order to their children and expected it to be carried out? The real problem is that the millennials were never disciplined by their Gen X parents. Their first dose of discipline comes as a shock and is insulting. If the navy wants to put itself out of business, they will do exactly what they are doing now.
Ah hell… since nobody else will:
Funny you should mention that. “Down Periscope” was on TV this morning.
Can’t speak for the military, but here’s an example of some very effective military-inspired “nurturing” found in a firehouse: “Hey dickhead! Nobody held a gun to your head and made you apply for your slot! Now quit being a pussy and do your fucking job!”
This guy can KMRBTA.
Sailors don’t need to be cuddled … They need to be shown the way by old school, hard nosed, experienced Chiefs.
Stuff that in your pipe Captain iPhone and smoke it!
Oh and Bernath is not, never was nor will he ever be a Genuine or Honorary CPO. PERIOD!
Master Chief…You nailed it Sir! And as always, you keep me posted on the current status so I NEVER get confused about it. That being: “Bernath is not, never was nor will he ever be a Genuine or Honorary CPO. PERIOD!”
Guys … There is good news here!
Our sons and daughters who have been there and done that will be joining the military someday.
In my case (I am baby boomer), when my guy arrives … Stand by for heavy waves!
The Gen X’s created quite the crew!
Nothing more!
An Off Topic question but sorta On Topic since it concerns Squids and the BGB’s (Big Grey Boats) I’m watching pass by my front row seat in the RV park at Mayport NS.
Do smaller vessels, like LCU’s have a crew permanently assigned?
I appreciate MCPO’s education on the Chief’s Mess. I was on NAS Key West and now Mayport, and the Base papers have been full of articles and pictures of the new Chiefs. Interesting how the Navy pins them all at the same time, world wide.
BTW: I did not see any of the new Chiefs with a name tag that said “Bernath”. Over.
Ah … Squids no!
Sailors yes!
Like Marines, Soldiers, Airman and Coastguardsmen.
MCPO, In every conversation I had with my son over the 26 years he gave the Navy,I called him one of those and he never once objected to the reference. Aren’t we older (born during the FDR/Truman Administration)baby boomers allowed some slack?
Permission granted!
I’ve been called a grunt etc by my many Squid friends. I never took offense and they didn’t either because it was from a brother in arms.
I was once called a ‘gob’ by a WWII vet.
Gobs,
Ha, reminds me of an old WW2 era ditty I heard.
10,000 gobs laid down their swabs,,, to fight 1 sick Marine.
10,000 more stood up and swore,, it was the best fight they had seen!!
Guess I’m not going to get an answer to my question because I offended sensitivities. I’ll ask a Squid here. And, he/she will know how much I respect and honor their service.
Out.
I don’t think they paid any attention to your question, SJ.
I think they were focused on what slang goes with what service.
Any of you wogs going to answer SJ’s question? I have no idea what the answer is, but you should.
SJ, the Wiki entry says the LCU’s are a self sustaining craft with living quarters and mess facilities for a crew of 13. The NCOIC is either a CPO or a PO1. So I’m guessing they do have a permanent crew assigned to them.
Thanks PH and Claw. I missed that on Wiki. Interesting. I’ll save my other Naval questions for a weekend open thread.
When I was a Nicky Newguy, I never, ever, and I mean NEVER even thought of speaking to an officer unless spoken to and the only time the CPO talked to me was to tell me to stop FUCKING UP!
That started to change a little when I made rate. Guess they figured I might stick around a little longer than the other or they just didn’t have any choice anymore!
So, I am going to go against the grain here tell you that you all are missing the point. The point is that mentoring and ethics need to be emphasized once again, because we are missing the boat on that (no pun intended). The 18-year olds of today are not the same type of 18-year olds with whom I served when I was commissioned in 1989. Society has changed as a whole, and our children are more educated, more IT knowledgeable, and more in need of direction. If we don’t adapt our training to the types of individuals who are enlisting today, those folks will fail at sea. There are no bystanders on a submarine, everyone has a watchstation, and everyone has a function during a casualty. If the training does not reach every individual, then the fleet will not receive folks who are ready to qualify. I do not believe Andy Jarrett is saying the training pipeline needs to be easier, or that standards need to be lowered. The instructors need to understand the student and give them effective training so they can be contributing members when they go to the fleet. Andy Jarrett is a good guy; I went through the nuclear power pipeline and the Submarine Officer’s Basic Course with him and we served as Department Heads on separate COMSUBRON 6 boats in the ’90s. He is doing everything he can to provide Basic Enlisted Submarine School graduates who have the base knowledge to qualify once they get to their boats.
Mentoring and ethics were emphasized when I first came in… it didn’t involve the Navy adjusting to me, or to those that came in with me. It meant that we fit right in and adjusted with the Navy… to include adjusting to the different teaching and leadership styles. The concept of training was always there. If we needed to understand something beyond what was being given during on the job training, or during general training, it was on us to have the initiative to do what it took to get that extra training, and to become proficient. We had the fortitude to ask questions, or come back for the purpose of understanding better. We’re not missing the point. The point that we’re arguing against… something that I saw happening in the Navy towards my last years there… was the “give them the trophy/don’t hold them accountable” theme that crept in before I ETSed from the Navy. My last years in the Navy, the exact, or similar speech given… as mentioned in the article… usually meant putting the kid gloves on and playing patty cake… it meant things like the CO caving in and letting Sailors go on liberty when they didn’t bring their class As when he originally said that if they didn’t have their class As (dress uniforms), you weren’t going on liberty. Examples of adjusting to today’s generation? Don’t dare tell them that they failed the APFT. 🙄 Don’t yell at them if they deliberately miss movement, you’ve got to be nice to them and don’t hold them accountable the way they should be held accountable. I’ve seen the results of a Navy where they chose to adjust to a spoiled brat generation rather than require said generation to adjust to the military. Example… Sailors are now authorized to wear their PT shirts un-tucked after organized PT… almost every Sailor I’ve seen coming from said organized PT look 8TFU with their PT shirt hanging outside their PT pants. Then there’s the case of a chief petty officer parked at one of the pumps… with cars waiting to use… Read more »
Jarret needs to express himself better. Perhaps he needs to understand that shit like he is saying can be demoralizing to CPOs and POs who take it as a directive to change the traditions of the Navy.
You sure this isnt from the Duffle Blog?