James Foley, kidnapped journalist beheaded by ISIS?
Hondo sends us a link to Fox News in regards to kidnapping and execution of James Foley, a journalist. The video’s authenticity is still being verified by the US government, but ISIS says that he was murdered in retaliation for US airstrikes on ISIS/ISIL/Islamic State forces in Iraq;
At the end of the video, an ISIS militant shows a second man, who was identified as another American journalist, Steven Sotloff, and warns that he could be next captive killed. Sotloff was kidnapped near the Syrian-Turkish border in August 2013 and freelanced for Time, the National Interest and MediaLine.
From Reuters;
British Prime Minister David Cameron interrupted his holiday to return to London to lead the hunt to identify the man shown killing Foley, who spoke on the video with a British accent.
Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said he was not surprised to hear the British accent and that large numbers of British nationals were fighting in Iraq and Syria.
Foley has been missing since November 2012. He had also found himself in the hands of Libyan rebels during the civil war in that country.
Category: Terror War
Well according to our current administration ISIS is only a JV team and nothing to really worry about? Shame to see another individual beheaded, American or not, by a terrorist organization that is quickly becoming a huge military.
B. Hussein 0bama made a statement to the press and hurried back to his vacation, which obviously is far more important to him!
Seems to me that this pres__ent said in 2008 he wouldn’t take any, and yet he and his no limit credit card family have spent in excess of ONE BILLION DOLLARS on them. Your money and mine, not theirs.
no one would have to mention any of this if obama wasn’t such a big mouth about how he’s different.
Color me sick or deranged or whatever, but I noticed YouTube took the video down so I couldn’t see it. I’ve seen others though. I think it needs to be available for all to see so everyone can see the twisted and sick ISIS groups for what they are. Seeing videos like this should piss you off enough to realize that these groups should be shown no mercy. Deleting videos or ignoring what’s going on over there doesn’t make it go away.
When people complain about the fact that we’re back to dropping bombs in Iraq, they need to understand that sick barbaric fucks are the target. But they’d change their minds….
Need to proof read better before I post, but you get my drift.
Your point is a good one, and so the next question needs to be, why is the MSM deleting the videos, why are the killings being downplayed in the news, why are the people who have the power making every effort to protect these vicious bastards?
Pinto:
Blair’s Law.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Blair%27s+Law
For those who might be in a location that blocks the Urban Dictionary site, it’s also defined here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Blair#Politics
YouTube has a censorship policy about violent videos.
Can’t say as I blame them in that. I don’t think showing gruesome executions is necessary, but this is not the only gruesome thing the ISers have done. They have repeatedly buried women alive in trenches, slaughtered anyone who refused to give in to their demands, and beheaded children.
Is it really necessary to repeatedly display the acts? Or can we just accept the reports of them for the time being?
I’m angry enough just from readng about it.
Yes but Live Leak doesn’t.
FUCK YOU ISIS!
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=519_1408481769
Yes, I do not find that Foley’s execution is being downplayed in the media at all.
Reuters has an updated article about Foley and also Sotloff, with a link to the video of Foley being murdered. I haven’t posted it and I won’t because I don’t think it’s necessary.
I don’t live with my head in the sand about things like this, but there is a point where the revulsion factor wears off if you see something like this too often.
We? Who’s ‘we’? I don’t see anyone here ‘frothing at the mouth’ for a view of it.
Well, Mark, I’m glad you are speaking for the rest of us; or was that just a poor attempt at hyperbole by someone who thinks they are an intellectual? Do you think he would be any more alive if we didn’t bother watching the videos (as stated, I did not watch the video and don’t want to)? Filming executions, whether by government sanction, or not, have been going on long before I arrived on the planet and will continue long after I leave. You making a smartass comment won’t change that, either, so take your sorry ass back to DU, but don’t go away mad, just go away.
YouTube has stated elsewhere it removed the video so as NOT to give ISIL/IS the publicity it so desperately wants.
Is that simple enough for you, Mark? Maybe you should do a little reading and research before you run your mouth.
I saw the video. it was phony as hell.
Can we just turn most of the Middle East in to a glass parking lot yet? I support dropping nukes over most of the Middle East and making it a radioactive smoking *wasteland*. Just my humble opinion.
Mark L. —
Try to learn the difference between expressing anger or venting, and committing an actual act of violence.
And in regard to genocide, just what on earth do you think the ISers are doing? Having Sunday picnics or something? Have you paid ANY attention at all to their mass slaughter of men, women and children? Or is that just ‘something in the news’ for you, just meaningless copy that you don’t take the time to read and absorb?
I’d really like to know just how shallow you are. Fill me in.
Shallow enough to think Hitler=Truman apparently.
Well, “Mark L”, let’s look at your supposed “analysis” here:
Inappropriate and incorrect. Ex-PH2 was not the source of the original comments. Ergo, Ex-PH2 cannot “walkback” squat.
A competent analysis would have recognized Ex-PH2’s comment as what it was: stating something blindingly obvious to anyone with a functional intellect – something you apparently failed to perceive.
Classic example of a non sequitur/red herring. The fact that you “watched the news this week” may or may not be true. It is also irrelevant. Understanding what you see (e.g., correctly perceiving and analyzing reality) and the ability to argue logically are relevant. Your comments here lead me to believe you’re batting 0 for 2 in those departments.
Well, you might have gotten one correct. Or maybe not. You’ll have to ask Ex-PH2 if her intent was to insult or if she was really asking if you were analyzing the situation superficially (or maybe if you were thick as the proverbial brick).
Try again, lad. This time try thinking a bit first – if you can.
And you might want to look up Reductio ad Hitlerum before you comment again, too.
‘walkback’= low-level vocabulary, indicative of semi-literacy and modest intellect, at best. Try using a dictionary instead of made-up slacker vocab.
‘watched the news’ – oh, goody! How much of it meant anything to you, or did you just turn the sound down until the sports section came on?
‘insult’ – hardly. You have yet to be on the receiving end of an insult from me. I simply asked how shallow you really are, because your snappy non-rebuttals to several posts indicate that your depth of understanding is somewhere on the level of two inches of water in a road puddle.
Do you REALLY want me to insult you, you clanking, mouse-biting, codpiece clamp? Fine. Your mother mated with a MERS-ridden camel, you were born under a newspaper in the back alley of a house in Englewood, and your lack of intellect smacks of a caffeine-laden ride on the nearest fireplug.
In reality, the only way a nuke could be remotely effective in regard to the ISers would be if they all came together in one spot and a large mega-tonnage nuke, someting on the order of Tsar Bomba or Castle Bomba, was detonated on that spot.
Otherwise, it’s a waste of time and resources. Non-nuclear carpet bombing with bunker busters in known areas is a more effective approach, as is using the 16-inch guns from an Iowa-class battleship, launched against known Isers sites. That, and morning to midnight, or even 24-hour nonstop strafing runs might put a damper of some sort on their power trip, especially if stolen US equipment is targeted.
The problem with all of this is that it involves collateral damage in the way of civilian casualties, and while this is an unfortunate part of real warfare, this administration doesn’t have the cojones to plow the road. They don’t want people getting mad at Them.
Unless there is a stated willingness to go hellbent on the ISers, it will become another long, drawn-out, tedious, expensive mess.
And for the record, there were several reports in Time magazine in the 1960s and 1970s, with photographs, regarding US soldiers and Marines who were taken prisoner by the Vietcong, not only being tortured but also being executed in extremely gruesome ways.
Unless this dimwitted administration is prepared to deal with all the nasty business of real warfare and stop this bellicose slaughterhouse on legs, nothing will come out of Washington except hand wringing and stern statements.
‘Castle Bomba’ should be Castle Bravo.
Tsar Bomba – 52 megatons
Castle Bravo – 50 megatons
Crap. Really can’t type this morning.
Castle Bravo was 15 megatons, not 50.
Pretending that Chip’s comments mirrors Hitler’s ambition reveal you Mark. It’s not genocide when they are fighting back, when you round them up and place them in camps it’s called genocide but you knew that and thought a smarmy comment would reveal your intellect. You are correct as it did do exactly that and reveal your thought process. Radioactivity would be the wrong choice for this purpose, it would make more sense to firebomb the area like we did during world war 2 to level Japanese and German cities. When you firebomb them from the air it’s called effective prosecution of armed conflict. Committing to limited air strikes, placing a few hundred men on the ground are all ineffective ways to prosecute a war and advance national interest. That’s been done for 45 years and quite clearly it resolves nothing, the one time we opened up on North Vietnam everyone started crying that it was awful but it was the closest we came to actually ending the conflict and forcing a resolution on our terms. Your enemies have a voice in the rules of engagement, their targeting of civilians has indicated the type of conflict they are interested in. These zealots only understand overwhelming force and consistent message. Peace talks are seen as a sign of weakness, burning them and their women and children into the desert and leaving behind a fine ash over the sand makes it clear we are serious about our message and while we disagree we will use an iron fist covered in blood to make our point understood and protect our interests. We had no qualms about sending this message in the 1940s, the greatest generation was a generation determined to slaughter their enemies without concern over civilian deaths. One need only look at how the war was prosecuted from the air against Japan to understand the totality of population destruction that was planned and executed. Our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan failed to drive that point home because we no longer believe in making that point. ISIS/ISIL have made their intention to rid the… Read more »
Mark apparently doesn’t understand that we need to bomb Iraq in order to find out what’s in it!
Religion of peace. Yes sir. Sure is.
I sure wish it was more like “Religion of Pieces”..and in “bits and pieces”.
Just read that the British PM just canceled his vaction after hearing about the news of the beheading…guess where Barry is?
If you guessed back at Martha’s Vineyard you’d be correct.
Oh, GOD FORBID that the hallowed wannabe Emperor B. Hussein 0bama have to end his vacation over some media peasant, the lives of four Americans in Benghazi weren’t enough to keep him awake the night before a fundraiser, why would he worry about Foley?
Well when I read that he knew this could happen and did nothing, it just shows his true colors. We also have Lurch more concerned about Global Warming and not about anything else his position is in charge of.
One report I found on Reuters last night says that something like 32 journalists have gone missing (been kidnapped) in various countries, and that most of their abduction revolves around getting money out of them somehow.
Except for the reports appearing on news media, I do not expect to see much of anything coming out of Foggy Bottom about this. It’s less important than Ferguson, MO.
Still, this kind of thing should make it clear, in this warlike climate, that anyone who thinks being a journalist is a big adventure, lots of fun, should think twice about his choice. There are no safe places left in the world, and Americans stick out like sore thumbs.
Islamic ass holes who behead innocents are looking for shock, fear and awe. They believe if they show a video to, “Mary at the Mall”, that’s bigger, scarier and even more gruesome than Kim Kardashians ass, that we will be stunned into submission.
My generation and the ones before were only angered and had their anger whetted when seeing or hearing of such as that.
This generation however, is closer to being scared into sticking their heads in the sand.
I say kill them with impunity and no mercy. All of them. One way or the other, they will either become a “religion of peace” or a religion of “no members left”. Either works for me.
Remember when we had leaders who knew victory wasn’t accomplished until complete defeat? We need more of that with this every increasing threat.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: it looks more and more each day like Samuel Huntington was correct in Clash of Civilizations. If you haven’t read that, IMO it’s worth your time. It’s available for download in PDF now from various sources (don’t know the cost; I have a hardcopy). Huntington’s initial Foreign Policy article that gives the thesis in short form can be viewed here. The book presents much the same in far greater detail.
Putting the book on my list Hondo, but you might want to edit that link. Delete the ” rel=” off the tail end and it will work. Hey, I owed you one! 🙂
Link fixed – thanks.
This link will take you to the pdf of Huntington’s original article.
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/pnorris/Acrobat/Huntington_Clash.pdf
I’d hit the ‘reduce size’ button a bit, to read it.
Gee, Ex-PH2 – that link looks familiar. (smile)
Well, I dropped it in just ahead of your fixer-upper, Hondo.
The religion of peace, bringing Islam to the world….one body at a time.
So a question for the numbnuts in the liberal media. Do you dumb bastards still think that it’s only rhetoric when these followers of the prophet tell you they want you dead? Or are you starting to realize they are telling you the truth and they want to take over the world.
Perhaps now some will understand that there was no good reason to stop producing napalm, as its application in large quantities would be quite suitable for dealing with these murdering shitbags.
Well, surely I’ll be jumped all over for giving my take on this, but my guess is that it all depends on what you mean by the use of the word ‘these’ preceding ‘followers’.
If by ‘these’ you mean the sub-human ISIS types, pretty much all liberals I personally know think they should be killed without mercy. I’d wager most don’t think they’re a threat to us, but the pure viciousness of some of the videos -marching thousands to their death?- had a whole lot of people who tend to be against military action cheering when the Kurdish forces went into action against them.
If by ‘these’ you mean Muslims, that’s where most liberals, and I’ll include myself in that though probably to a different degree than others, would disagree entirely. Probably because a lot of us know some Muslims, and given the choice between thinking a close friend we’ve known for a while is secretly planning on killing us OR believing some assholes who broadly belong to the same religious family are just savages, we tend to opt for the latter. There is clearly a problem with *militant* Islam. But there isn’t a problem with Islam. This fight is more cultural than religious, the latter is just being wielded as a tool of control and influence.
My two cents as someone who has lots of liberal friends.
I know some muslims as well, and frankly their lack of contempt for their fellow muslims who are murderous zealots mirrors those catholics who were comfortable hiding pedophiles.
Islam is rotting from the inside out, I am not a religious person and I can’t much stand listening to proselytizers of any stripe.
It’s easy to manipulate the ignorant with a book of magic about a better life in death than the ignorant misery of their current life.
The world is not better off with Islam, as practiced in most Islamic countries it’s a culture designed to keep women and children as chattel beholden to despotic old men desperate to retain control over “their” people.
Religion is about control, it always has been and it always will be. At the dawn of man one lazy future priest told the herd that the sun went up and down because that lazy priest was in contact with the “Sun God” to make sure it would come up each day, the priest quickly realized he could get the herd to do what he wanted without actually having to do any work of his own by frightening the herd with visions of doom if their Sun God was displeased…
Not much has changed since, some pathetic fools in robes pretending to have the magic power to speak on behalf of their “flock” to their “god”. Now those pathetic fools are beginning to realize that as a society becomes more educated and looks for scientific explanations the necessity of a magical sky man becomes far less necessary. Therefore it’s best to wipe out those “heathens” who don’t believe….
Dead muslims aren’t a stain on human morality, it’s a necessary evolutionary step to rid ourselves of a murderous parasite inflicting itself on humanity on a global scale.
Kill them young, kill them old, kill them all. The lion cares not for the feelings of the antelope.
Oderint Dum Metuant…
“it’s a culture designed to keep women and children as chattel beholden to despotic old men desperate to retain control over “their” people.”
Just happens to be a Masjed Beit El-Magdes Islamic Temple in a strip-mall down the road from my work. We’ve stopped at the strip-mall to hit the pizza place next to the temple and I found it interesting that on the backside of this temple is a door with a sign saying “Women’s Entrance”.
Let’s try that shit anyplace else in America (except a Muslim Temple of course) and see how quick you get lawyers, protesters, news cameras, you name it, involved. The Catholics may get accused of hiding pedophile priests, the Mormons might have a few dozen wives, and even us Methodists might be a little more accepting of gays than most, but at least the women can come in the front door…
Plural marriage has been outlawed by the Mormon church for over a hundred years, but I get what you are saying.
Twist: plural marriage may have been outlawed by the mainstream Mormon church, but it’s still practiced in some locales in the Southwest nonetheless. See Potter, Royston.
It’s the women that need to be made to answer for that door. We’ll only ever be treated as good as we expect to be treated. If we keep acting like property, that is what we will be.
It is not just religion, VOV. It is any form of ideology, whether it was the Nazis in Germany, the Fascisti in Italy, the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, Trotsky, Lenin and later Stalin and the KGB in the USSR, the Vietcong in Vietnam, or the Gang of Four and Mao Tse-Tung in China.
The ISers and Kim Jong-un – the entire Kim family, in fact – are the current examples of ideology as a weapon of terror and means of control. Religion is only one kind of ideology.
VOV, I keep waiting for you to tell us how you really feel.
In regards to “Kill them young, kill them old, kill them all. The lion cares not for the feelings of the antelope.” Question: are we the lion or are we the antelope?
I am not saying that you are wrong, and I fear you are right. I only wish the conflict could be resolved by the competition of ideas instead of a kill ratio. But yeah, I know… wish in one hand and shit in the other…. I’ll just shut up and go back to my reloading bench.
I’m similarly non-religious, and have zero love for Islam. I also feel the world would be better off without it (and other religions). And, ultimately, I’m practical – we’ll do what needs to be done.
But right now, frankly, as barbaric as these assholes are, it doesn’t quite seem that civilization itself is threatened. Yes, the people rounding up innocent men women and children and killing indiscriminately need to be killed. And the people who preach such methods. But once you start talking about killing innocent children simply because they’re born into Muslim families, … well, that’s where we disagree. We aren’t yet at that point of barbaric necessity. And hopefully never will be. To do that now is to say, “We’re no better than those assholes,… we just have better weapons.”
Oh, you don’t think civilization in general is threatened, eh?
How narrow a view can you manifest? Try seeing past the end of your nose, once in a while.
Read the article I posted here:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=54655&cpage=1#comment-1711029
Then tell me they are no threat to civiliaztion. I have to take their boasting seriously, because I live in the real world. You, apparently, do not.
Enjoy your comfy chair while you’ve got it, because you’ve let everyone here know what a naive, witless blockhead you are.
If you ever get your silly head out of the sand, let someone know.
Ha! You feel that civilization as a whole is on the brink of doom because a bunch of assholes THREATEN us?
I have ZERO doubt that there are ISIS sympathizers or cells actively seeking to inflict casualties here. And some may even succeed, despite our best efforts to stop them.
But civilization will roll on. So yes, I don’t yet feel they’re any sort of ‘existential crisis’ that warrants killing any and all Muslims, be they men, women or little children. The ISIS types? Sure, fire at will. Some cute little six year old in Pennsylvania who is coloring red apples and laughing with his friends but was born to a Muslim family? I’m going to hold off on, you know, ordering his death because of some ill-perceived notion that he threatens civilization as a whole.
Crazy, I know.
Oh, you don’t think so? Then the names Dzokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev don’t mean anything to you, do they? No, they wouldn’t. They were SUCH nice boys, going to college in Boston, Massachusetts. They were here on scholarships. They had plenty of pictures of themselves hangin’ with their friends.
They were the pair that built several pressure-cooker bombs and set them off during the Boston Marathon, killing 3 people and injuring 264 others. And while they were being chased by the police and the feds, Tamerlan was shot and wounded, and Dzokhar, in his efforts to get away, drove right over his brother’s body as he lay dying on the pavement.
No, they’re no threat at all. Not at all. And if you REALLY believe that, you’re even dumber than I thought you were when I read your first comment.
Enjoy your bout with naive stupidity.
What an ASSHOLE!
Are you not catching on to the fact that I’m responding here to VOV’s ‘kill everyone’ position?
Sure, terrorists are going to kill people. And that’s utterly terrible and we should fight against it as best we can, but within the realm of acceptable options. Killing little six-year old Muslims, as in the example I gave, isn’t really a valid option to me.
Maybe you’re telling me it is for you? If so, well, ain’t that something. And I’M the asshole?
Killing everyone in the ISIS/ISIL conflict is no different than burning japanese kids in their homes while they sleep. Your enemies remain your enemies until you create a reason for them to become something else, friend or servant. Pretending there can be a dialogue to resolve this issue doesn’t make it true it only makes the side using dialogue susceptible to continued unwanted violence. ISIS/ISIL have the attitude and drive they do because they have zero reason to fear that anyone in the middle east will do anything to stop them, and they have zero reason to believe the US is capable of maintaining a total war because we have never successfully prosecuted a total war since the 1940s so ISIS/ISIL is operating with appropriate intelligence and taking appropriate military risks to advance their position and interest. The only message that will get their attention is overwhelming death, for their fighters and the families of their fighters. The japanese were determined to fight us on the ground in their homeland to the last japanese until they realized that would never happen they would just sit helplessly below our bombs and die for no fucking reason other than to die because we could rain death on them without repercussion. When ISIS/ISIL fighters are screaming in agony as they burn to death under a cloud of ignited napalm they will realize we are not going to give them a ground war of limited proportion, we will give them unending death without recourse by their fighters. Their families, the villages and their ideology will be eliminated if they continue, at that point they can decide to become another extinct species or they can decide they’ve had enough death and surrender unconditionally and suffer the consequences of that surrender. Surrender or die is a simple equation and one they understand. It’s time the US regains the strength to instruct the world in that simple math lesson. Words haven’t resolved the problems in the middle east for 2000 years only a naive fool would consider that words are suddenly an option with real value. LC… Read more »
This would be an interesting thing to debate over a beer. I’d argue, for better or worse, society has changed a lot since we firebombed cities and left children burning in their beds as they slept. And because of that, taking this approach now has a huge cost associated with it. I mean, ultimately, we’re both doing a cost/benefit analysis here, right? The cost of inaction is obvious – there will be more deaths from these assholes. No question about it. It’s happening now, daily, in the Middle East, and might happen here in the near future. However, there’s also a cost to action itself – not just the immediate financial one, which I think is the smallest concern, but rather the harder-to-quantify factors that a scorched earth policy entails. Diminished status in the world. Near universal outrage courtesy of images on every 24-hour news station of burning children. Riots within the country, and serious relations with internal relations. All of which make it much harder to accomplish other important missions. If we act now, we save lives that might otherwise be lost, but at the cost of .. what? It’s hard to quantify those issues above, I know. And everyone will do the ‘fuzzy math’ differently. What do we gain, though, if we destroy them and destroy ourselves, our position in the world, in the process? For me personally, these guys are a horrible blight upon humanity but the cost of a ‘kill men, women and children’ policy is too prohibitive. This is going to be a generational conflict that involves changing attitudes. And in that time, people will die, too. But, I feel, the costs will be less. In short, we both agree there are costs to action and inaction, I think, but we weight them differently. And I think the ‘truth’ of your observation misses out on the secondary effects I listed above. In effect, sure, we might wipe out ISIS, and in exchange have billions of people against us for the horrors of what we’ve done. Where do we, as a country, find ourselves then? As… Read more »
VOV is expressing his anger. If you can’t figure that out, you are not paying attention. And frankly, a lot of people feel the same way.
However, if you think that children are NOT being taught that it’s okay to slaughter your neighbors, then you need to read this article from the Guardian about the CHILD holding up the head of a slain man.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/11/sydney-man-posts-picture-son-decapitated-head-syria
And yeah, the kind of denial you express makes you an asshole.
I guess I’ve simply seen more of the world than you have. It isn’t tidy, it isn’t nice. It is hostile, and cruel and damned dangerous and when people like you don’t pay attention to the reality of dangers and viciousness in the REAL world, you are those who get held up at gunpoint when you’re out running at midnight. That is exactly how dumb you are making yourself appear to be.
I’ve seen plenty of the world, and I’m lucky to still be alive today. I know plenty about the dangers that exist, but I also know that letting fear (or anger) dictate your actions is rarely the best option.
Killing an ideology requires more time, thought and precision than killing armed men who subscribe to that ideology.
But if you wish to continue thinking of me as a wimpy, latte-drinking hipster who wants to just give group hugs to terrorists, by all means, go nuts.
L.C.have you heard or understand the term Blood Debt.The Musslims have it their teachings.They still do it Today. Look it up. Joe
LC – your failure in this case is to review the teachings of Islam and understand the so called extremists are only following the basic teachings of Islam. It is the only religion that I am aware of that says it’s OK to lie about Islam and it’s values since the end goal is an Islamic state. They have ZERO tolerance for anyone outside their religion. This concept is hard for most westerners to understand since all other religions teach honesty and acceptance at the core teachings. I strongly urge you to do some reading of not only the Koran, but it’s supporting documents. You will quickly understand the real issue at hand and that it includes the so-called moderate Muslims…
I’ve read the Quran and its supporting documents. Saying that they state it’s OK to lie is a bit like saying Catholics can lie as well, since all they need to do is confess their sins afterwards and all is forgiven. Sure, technically it’s true, but it’s a misunderstanding of the faith. In the case of Muslims in groups like ISIS, I’ll grant you it’s accepted as a perfectly VALID understanding since they’re at war. But many Muslims peacefully exist in Western society and don’t interpret this as an excuse to lie as they somehow dream of a glorious Islamic state. That, to my Muslim friends, is a ridiculous notion. For many of them, their religion is, like many others, something they were born into, and it’s mostly ritual and guidelines for living decently… not a codex on how to wage a stealth war by pretending to be something you’re not.
I’ve seen Muslims doctors deliver Christian babies and we have Muslims within our intelligence community fighting to stop terrorist plans. Are they merely pretending to further their goals? Or is it more reasonable to conclude that maybe there are plenty of Muslims who just want to live their lives by the moderate teachings THEY learned?
There is clearly a problem with the proliferation of militant Islam, especially in the Middle East, but (and this is not intended to compare these two in terms of severity) we could say there’s a ‘problem’ with Christianity here in the US in terms of acceptance of homosexuality. Probably a bad example here given the conservative nature of this board, but look at the trendlines for acceptance of homosexuality throughout the past twenty years, and how the message of SOME churches, not all!, have changed, and you’ll see that even things as seemingly immutable as religion change in message, even if not in principle. We need to work to change the message of Islam back to more peaceful ones, because right now, killing every man, woman and child who practices Islam isn’t really an option, for both moral and practical reasons.
I must say that last week when I read about ISIS killing the men and sorting out the women according to age/beauty it did remind me of what I read in the biography of Muhammad. I recall that he and his followers won a battle and did the same thing. Muhammad got a wife out of the deal… he was in his 50’s and she was very young. It’s been about 14 years since I read the book. I read it shortly after 9/11/2001. From my perspective, ISIS is following the prophet’s example in many ways.
My condolences to this man’s family.
Hopefully this will wake the media the fuck up.
The enemy does not give a rats ass if you are the media or anyone else for that matter.
They will kill you regardless. Liberal media better tune in and understand they they get no hall pass.
And he parents mentioned this was a result of “American foreign policy in Iraq?”
My prayers are with them in their time of grief but no, this was not a result of that.
Just sad.
It didn’t wake the meia up after Perlman (sp?) was beheaded, so this won’t matter to them, except who gets to cover the weeping family members.
Green Thumb…Plus 1. Truly sad.
What do you think Obama is doing right now, given that his next action could cause the death of another journalist.
1.) Trying to decide between a 9 iron and a pitching wedge?
2.) Begging Bebe to talk to him on the phone?
3.) Contemplating a Summit Meeting with ISIS…. ya know, we should talk with our enemies and all that.
4.) Thinking, “Man, if I could just get those ISIS guys and that reporter in a whaleboat out at sea…”
5.) Asking The Hildebeast and Bite Me for advice?
6.) … ?
He’s waiting to get his marching orders from that skank Jarret.
Indeed.
I know. Him and pink girl’s bike rider are crafting a “reset” button for ISIS. Because we’ve been to arrogant ya know.
Anyone else here think is a direct result of our “Hostage Trade” of the Deserter Bergdahl? President Mom Jeans is responsible for putting a larger target on all Americans especially Military. If they capture any Service Members or American Media, they believe they have the upper hand in demanding and probably receiving what they want and if we don’t pay up, this is what happens…
My deepest condolences to this man’s family.
No demands were made for releasing Foley. This was an attempt to ‘show’ us they can kill anyone they want to with impunity.
They see bodaprez for what he is, an incompetent weakling with no clue about the real world.
Naturally, they will poke and keep poking, so in all seriousness, expect another gruesome display of slaughter.
These events should invoke massive retaliation from the US and EU nations. The Brits have already said British nationals have left the UK to go fight for the ISers. If there is no payback, these scum will have won.
Personally, I do expect to see the conflict expand within a few days from now, maybe by Aug. 22nd or 23rd.
This guy is from my town. Needless to say, everyone is taking it pretty hard.
What I’m about to say may seem callous, but this is how I see it. I cannot envision a situation where I would sell out my country, even at the point of death. I also cannot envision a scenario where I would choose to die on my knees. You ALWAYS have some choice! If the choice to live or die has been removed from your grasp, then you can choose how you meet that end. This man CHOSE to sell out his country with his words AND chose to die on his knees. As such, I call him a coward. His family are the ones that I sympathize with. In addition to losing their own blood, they have to live with the knowledge that this man brought dishonor to their family with his actions. However, America, you go ahead and keep focusing on some incident in Missouri where a mountain was made out of a mole hill. This organization is extremely well-funded and will not stop until they are obliterated or they win. Unless the people with the ability to stop them actually get off their collective asses and do so, I have no doubts that they will bring the fight to American soil, and other countries of the free world, eventually and then you’ll WISH for the days where perceived Civil Rights violations were what you focused on. Rant complete
FUCK YOU ISIS!
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=519_1408481769
It’s not that simple. From my understanding, they often stage ‘mock’ executions. And you either do what they say, or they torture you. Well, after standing tall and choosing to die well,… then finding out it was fake and you get tortured anyway, after a while you opt for less pain. Hell, it’s going to be fake anyway, right? And then it isn’t. Envision that for a bit, envision all the horrible, horrible things they could do to you, day in and day out, and then see if, feeling this was just another day, you might say what they wanted you to say, after all they’re just making empty threats…
I wouldn’t be labeling anyone who went through two years of torture a coward based off a statement they likely made under coercion.
Yeah, LC – I’ll let you tell Nick Berg’s family that Islamic extremists “often stage ‘mock’ executions.” Maybe you should tell that to the the family of James “Will” Coker, too. And the families of Jack Hensley and Eugene Armstrong.
Sheesh.
Let me see if I can find a source for you other than personal ones, OK, Hondo? The ‘mock’ executions happen, as a matter of course, to break people for propaganda. Go re-read what I said. I didn’t say they don’t have ACTUAL executions that follow on from the mock ones, just that the ‘mock’ ones lower resistance since the mind thinks ‘Oh, they’ve pulled this trick before.. let me just do what they want since it’ll be less pain.’
Basically, ‘mock’ execute the person a handful of times until resistance is broken, get them to do your propaganda, then kill them. That’s how these guys (and other guys) operate.
I read what you wrote, LC. I understood what you said.
I “get it” that Islamic terrorists engage in torture, killing of innocents, rape, theft of children, and a whole host of other evil behaviors. Many if not most of them are sick, twisted bastards who won’t be happy until they’ve converted the world to Islam at the point of a sword – while slaughtering those who would not submit.
I also understand that most people will break under torture.
I was merely pointing out the fact that those sick bastards also sometimes simply execute people for propaganda purposes. Like the four people I listed above.
I’ll let you explain the distinction to the families of those who came back with head disconnected from shoulders.
There’s loads of video showing these peckernecks performing mass executions and crucifixions also. Beheadings are just another services they cheerfully offer. It’s okay to show those vids and pics – they’re not American journalists.
I think we’re still talking over each other — I was pointing out that the mock executions happen as a tool before the real executions. You’re saying… real executions happen? For propaganda or just for kicks? Yeah, no kidding. These people are barbaric.
I was just explaining how mock executions help break people, and thus calling Foley a ‘coward’ because he broke is ridiculous. There’s no distinction to make. One often happens enroute to the other.
Does the phrase non sequitur ring a bell, LC?
What you say is true. It is also at best only tangentially related to the subject at hand, and at worst completely irrelevant.
The man was beheaded for propaganda purposes by an Islamic terrorist group. That group wants to re-establish the Caliphate in the short term, and to conquer the world eventually. They are perfectly willing to slaughter anyone who will not submit.
That – not whether they also engage in torture – is the important point here.
And for the record: while many do break under torture, not every man does. As I recall, a man named Stockdale never did. Neither did a man named Versace.
I do not know – and do not care to know – what statements by the deceased were being discussed above. However, suffering abuse and torture are not automatic justification for statements indicating disloyalty to one’s nation (if in fact that was the case). Rather, they are instead mitigating circumstances.
Yes, your entire reply is a non sequitur. I wasn’t talking about whether they torture or not, the morality of that, any of that nonsense. I wasn’t responding to the main article.
I was responding solely to Jabatam’s calling of Foley a coward. I was explaining why calling him that because he read what people who’ve been torturing him for two years told him to read is maybe jumping the gun a bit.
I know, you know, and pretty much the world knows these people are willing to slaughter anyone. That wasn’t what I was answering.
James Foley was executed by IS because their demand for a ransom of $132 million was refused by the US government. It’s that simple. What he was put through has nothing to do with any of this. You are trying to apply ‘reasoning’ to rabid animals.
It would not have made an ounce of difference what he said or did, at the end.
Foley went into a hot zone looking for a story and became a victim instead of a reporter. Journalists and aid workers do not have the immunity from warfare that they once had in the past, especially if they are from Western countries and especially the US.
Anyone is now fair game for these thugs. And if they don’t get what they want, their hostages are dead meat on a fork, because the only value they place on human life is how much money they can get for it.
You got that part? You go over there, and you are worthless to them unless they can suck some cash out of your existence. Frankly, at this point, I wouldn’t even trust them to turn over Americans if the US government DID pay the ransom fees.
The current policy of the US government is to NOT pay ransom fees, unlike France and Spain.
That’s why Foley is dead. The grueseomeness of how he died is a moot point. It was done and recorded for the shock value and nothing else. They could have simply shot him and dumped his body at the outskirts of Baghdad. Instead, they attempted to use heinous scare tactics to make a point.
As I said, it made no difference what he said or did at the end of his life. He was dead the minute he was abducted.
You really have a burr up your ass when it comes to my comments, don’t you? Foley was executed because subhuman bastards were going to execute him, period.
All I was doing here was explaining how the psychology of torture almost always gets people to say things they wouldn’t otherwise say. In other words, labeling the guy a coward isn’t fair. I’d guarantee most here would break, even though most wouldn’t admit it.
And you’re damn straight I’ll apply reasoning to what they do. They aren’t animals operating on purely on rabies-driven base instincts – they seem to have capable leadership, decent training, are familiar with media and clearly know a bit about torture, deal-making and probably counterintelligence. Show me some ‘rabid animals’ that behave that way and then maybe I’ll consider the label.
You still don’t get it, do you? If I ever run into any surviving members of the USS Pueblo, I’ll tell them that when they were labeled cowards for knuckling under to the Norks, it just wasn’t fair. And that Captain Bucher was railroaded. But we all knew that back then, so it’s a moot point now. Your need to deflect attention from the subject of this thread – the publicized execution of an Americam journalist – to yourself does you no credit. Likewise, you failed to acknowledge the ransom payments by EU countries like France, Belgium and Spain, which resulted in the return of their hostages and the refusal by the US government to pay a ransom for Foley. That refusal to pay for Foley’s return after two years resulted in his death, which was meant as a ‘we mean business’ warning by the ISers. If you don’t acknowledge that, you’re blind or intentionally being rude. No one here needs an explanation of the psychology of torture. We get that stuff in recruit training. Some of us had to put up with seeing the results of refusing to knuckle under as part of our jobs during the Vietnam War. Got that part? Torture is frequently inflicted on prisoners and hostages for its own sake, and not to get a result of any kind other than fear, whether or not the hostage or prisoner is killed in the end. When I asked you specifically if you had actually seen any of the images of children holding the severed heads of those slaughtered by the ISers, you did not answer my question. It was specific and direct. You went off on a tangent, so my educated guess is that the answer to my question was loud “NO”, you have not. That speaks volumes about you. Avoiding answering a direct question means that the only thing you are interested in doing is continuing to make top-lofty, condescending remarks to let us know how very dumb and uneducated you think we are. And we certainly do NOT need you to educate us. This… Read more »
Ha! Get a grip. I’ve never made this about me – I simply explained that labeling the man a coward because he’d been coerced via physical and psychology torture into reading a prepared statement is, frankly, a pretty terrible thing to say.
I’m not under interrogation here, thus I needn’t answer questions that I don’t feel are relevant to the topic at hand. That doesn’t mean I’m wrong, avoiding things, whatever. I also didn’t comment on ransoms because, well, it really doesn’t have anything to do with Foley being labeled a coward because he was, again, physically and psychologically tortured.
You’re damn straight this isn’t about me – it’s about James Foley, and I don’t like seeing him called a coward. Since you clearly don’t like my take on it, though, I’ll leave you that of someone who knew him:
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2014/08/19/god-bless-jim-foley-a-man-i-know-has-been-beheaded-by-isis/
Since you like direct questions and all, do you feel Foley was a coward? If so, .. well, damn. That’s just pathetic.
No, I don’t consider Foley a coward, any more than I consider anyone who survived the Hanoi Hilton to be cowards, or my parish priest and one of my ‘A’ School instructors, both of whom survived Japanese POW camps.
Does that answer your question?
Your stated presumption that the majority of US here would crack under that pressure is disingenuos. It means you think you know more about us than we know about ourselves.
Well, you’re wrong – about that and about a lot of other things. And you are still redirecting this thread so that it IS about you.
Nobel committee has been very quiet as of late.
Apparently Twitter has taken to not just removing the video from anyone who post it, but they are also removing their accounts… out of “sensitivity to the family”.
I hate censorship in all its forms, and if people do not care to watch it, they do not have to. I also feel many who do not want it out there fall into the category of “if I cannot see it, it will go awy or not be real” crowd.
Catching hell already from a bunch of folks for thatopinion elsewhere, figured I may as let folks have a shot at me here also.
You wouldn’t by chance be referring to that bunch of sycophant, Nordic liberals who conferred a peace prize on the black messiah before he’d even gotten the chair warm in the Oval Office, now would you?
With that one suck-up gesture those shoe-licking fools tarnished the value of a Nobel prize forever showing that the entire selection process is politicized to the extent that the award itself has become worthless as a measure of one’s accomplishments.
My reply was directed at H1’s comment.
They tarnished the value of the Nobel Peace Prize the day they handed it to Arafat, which was long before they gave it to the dumbass-in-chief.
Didn’t they hand one to Al Gore Jr. as well? Regardless, the Nobel Committee has forever diminished the stature of that award by giving it to Arafat alone!
Yep.
Wonder if they are reconsidering…
Such a damn shame. Foley was one of the very few (in today’s world) who had the core of a ‘real journalist’.
For a good look at his personality and attitude, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3SKu0M_g_4
This was after he was freed from prison in Libya, before he went missing in Syria.
He lost his best Friend in Libya, and still chose to go to Syria to get eyes on the events on the ground there.
He was a journalist, not a Warrior, but his core had some near-interchangeable parts.
R.I.P. Mr. Foley.
Thanks, shark. His family are good people, and frankly, I do not share jabatam’s assessment.
Mr. Foley was one of the good guys. Never forget that, people.
I don’t believe in censorship, but I also don’t believe the family and friends of that poor man should have to see someone they love slaughtered every time they turn on their TV, computer, or phone. He is not some unknown figure…he is a person with people who loved him. Would you want to see the murder of someone you love broadcast for the next 100 years? I know I wouldn’t.
I think you’re being a bit disengenous. No one sees something like that by just turning on their phone or computer, or even their tv. You have to want to see it, to actually see it. If they don’t want to see it, they don’t have to “click on the video”.
I beg to differ. While I don’t see the entire video every time, I do see pictures of him standing there and after it was done every time I turn the TV on and on Facebook. It’s everywhere,
Then don’t go on facebook. I don’t need to see the video, so when a couple of my co-workers pulled it up, I didn’t watch it (I have seen videos of beheadings, before) and that was my choice. I have yet to see where I turn on the computer and see the video. It isn’t being shown. Plus, my co-workers said they didn’t even show the actual beheading, but rather the before and after. Still didn’t have a desire to watch it. Those that want to watch should be able to watch it. Sometimes things need to be seen in order to get the right perspective on reality versus what you’re being told. ISIS doesn’t give a shit if your sensibilites are ruffled. They hope you do turn into a delicate flower that doesn’t like being upset; it makes it easier for them to control and conquer you. IOW: suck it up, buttercup.
I am far from a delicate flower and I’ve seen worse. I’m referring to his family. I’m sure they are sick of seeing any part of it.
Let his family speak for themselves, unless you have been designated to be their spokesperson.
We see condemned convicts on tv at home every other day. We know they’re gonna die. I hope you don’t watch the local news. The sensitivity fairies don’t protect us from that. What’s the difference?
Then don’t watch. As long as organizations keep “sanitizing” videos and articles because of our perceived sensitive feelings, people like these ISIS asses will be able to keep up their actions with relatively little impunity. Why? Because until it happens on your doorstep, your front yard, your kids playground, we think we can just close our eyes and wish it away (much like our current president). Once these ISIS thugs are in your neighborhood, then you’ll be asking “how did this happen and why didn’t we do anything before”.
As gruesome as the Holocaust was, to their credit, the Jews won’t let the world forget and if it takes them showing the graphic images of what happened to their own relatives, that’s what they’ll do.
I’m a big boy now – I don’t need the news organizations or the internet sugar fairies trying to force my head in the sand and “shelter me” from the big, bad world. Of course, I’m also one of those who think that the videos of the Twin Towers getting hit and coming down should be on prime time TV at least once a week so we don’t forget that either….
Funny how the journalist’s family gets more consideration than Mike Brown’s family. The video of his body laying in the street with most of his brain matter in front of him wasn’t taken down.
Why is a black teenager afforded less consideration than a white journalist?
Two Thoughts on this.
First Mr Foley was a genuine journalist, if anything he was very open about getting the opinions of ISIS to the world, probably to the point of actually being sympathetic. That didn’t save him, when ISIS decided he was a better “example” then he was a mouthpiece they sawed his head off with a knife.
Two. People have critized his dying statement saying he was a traitor and a bitch for reading it, and he should have died “fighting”. Bullshit bravado. The man wasn’t an armed soldier, he was probably snatched up and bound, with little or no warning. The chance to resist (or off himself) was never there. There is no telling what they did to him before his murder or what they promised to do if he didnt comply. Trained patriotic US serviceman have been made to denounce their country when coerced. EVERYONE can be broken. The guy had a chioce between saying things that everyone knew was forced and getting a quick death or repeatedly being gang raped by goat herders.
While surfing Wikipedia last night I came across this: Hostis humani generis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis I think we need to bring this old legal concept back to life. Basically it declares people who commit crimes against the human race as outlaws without any protections under the law. It calls on all good men to hunt these people down and eradicate them. Unlike the Crimes against Humanity of the twentieth century, no trials or protections are afforded the individuals or members of the offending group. Membership alone constitutes a crime for which death is the only acceptable, nay, preferred penalty. If we start now on a large scale we might be able to finish them off in a generation or less.
Well, now they’ve done it. We’re going to get hit at US bases and on US soil.
http://www.todayszaman.com/world_is-opens-new-anti-us-front-with-beheading-video_356182.html
Read their opinion of the US – ‘The West are idiots and fools’.
Gee, it would be nice if bodaprez weren’t such a lame asshole, wouldn’t it?
As far as “peaceful muslims” the majority of them are just that. They have also made themselves irrelevant by not bringing the rabid dogs within their cult to heel.
This is concerning the video of Jim Foley getting killed. LiveLeak has posted a statement on their website, several paragraphs are below. The full statement can be read at the link.
I did not want to watch the video, but I did watch it. Watching the video was unpleasant for me and it made me uncomfortable; however, I feel it is important to see the brutality of the people that have identified themselves as my enemy head-on, and to not rely on paid proxies to watch it on my behalf. Part of the reason I feel that so many of my fellow citizens are not “mobilized” (for lack of a better word) in the war(s) that this country has been waging for the past 13 years, is that they are not inconvenienced, and given the option they choose not to look. Some of our citizens are not afforded that option. That’s my 2 cents.
The ISers are only doing these horrific things to get media attention. They crave it.
Live Leak’s and YouTube’s refusal to continue post their videos may seem like censorship, but I understand their viewpoint.