Pentagon’s lies to Congress
ROS sends us a link to Military.com in which they report to Congress that the troops are willing to give up their pay and benefits if it means they can train and have better equipment. At least, that’s what I think it says, because I can’t quite read around the ads that Military.com places right over the text that I’m trying to read.
Vice Adm. William F. Moran, chief of naval personnel and deputy chief of naval operations, told lawmakers that sailors he has met with over the past six months have spoken more about “the quality of the service” they’re able to do than anything other topic.
The view was shared by other officials, including Sheryl E. Murray, assistant deputy commandant for manpower and reserve affairs for the Marine Corps.
“I would emphasize our Marines do enjoy a good quality of life. Our Marines love being in the Marine Corps family,” she said. “Most of all, they want the right equipment. … They want to be trained, and they want to be ready. That is the overriding desire.”
Personnel officials from the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force and the Department of Defense met with the House Armed Services’ Military Personnel subcommittee to talk about cuts to pay and benefits the Pentagon is proposing for its upcoming budget.
These include a smaller pay raise — 1 percent raise, an average 5 percent reduction in housing allowances, and higher health care fees for some retirees.
You know, when I served, I used to think the same thing – that my pay was low, but my training was expensive, so I weighed the two against each other, and figured that if I lived to retire, that was payment enough. But since I got out, I see how dependents of the welfare system, and employees at other agencies in the Executive Department aren’t willing to make the same sacrifice, always demanding more and complaining to the media how they need more.
So the troops continue to sacrifice, the majority of the cuts are to personnel costs in the Pentagon. But those cuts don’t intrude on the largesse and comfort for those at the top. The job of the top brass is to take care of their troops, not to make it easier on the consciences of Congress while they slash troops’ compensation, so that those fat cats with stars on their shoulders can cling to the perks of their offices.
I think the troops would agree with what the Pentagon sockpuppets are telling Congress if the cuts to pay and compensation were across the board in the Executive Department. But this is me not holding my breath.
Category: Military issues
Yep, keep telling yourselves that the troops aren’t concerned about the pay all you want. Then, when you come back before congress and have to explain why manpower needs aren’t being met; you can tell them that, once again, the troops being shit on has nothing to do with it. Assholes.
+1
“and it’s Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy get behind”
We absolutely don’t need our military — until we do. In my opinion, it is a lot better to have a well-maintained tool than an old rusty one that you have to fix up before you can use it. I think that it is cheaper too but I’m old, fat, and slow so what do I know?
Dangerous jobs require ALL of it: higher pay, more extensive and expensive training, and benefits. Ask any company that deals with heavy industry, and they’ll tell you that. The bottom line depends on taking care of the people that do the work.
But, let the Pentagon reinvent the wheel, over and over again. It’s only our people and our tax dollars they’re squandering.
And that last was saracasm, in case you were wondering.
And in the process of inventing the wheel yet again, how many people come home in bags next time?
58,275
I think we just found out who is surviving the purging of the senior leadership.
Wait, what?
Yes sir, I would enjoy being paid less for the same work if only you spend more money on my training? Yes sir, I would enjoy paying a higher cost for housing my family if only you buy me some really cool gear?
This was said with a straight face, really?
How about some of these so called leaders start getting themselves unfucked and start telling the truth. You get what you pay for, and so far we’ve been paying for good people and the results are consistent with that basic premise. If you intend to stop paying for good people it’s safe to correlate a corresponding drop in efficiency when the resulting staff consists of less good people and more mediocrity. At no point in the history of any nation has mediocrity and scarcity of numbers proven to be a winning combination…quality alone hasn’t done it either, it’s most often a combination of good quality and decent quantity and that my friends is not cheap….
Of course when a nation values illegal aliens as much or more than its’ military personnel the results are predictable. Let’s make sure that the checkbox on Obamacare alerts people to the fact that being an illegal is no hindrance to acquiring care while we raise the rates of healthcare to those who have served their nation with honor and integrity.
There is a serious problem in a nation where honorable service to the nation receives less accommodation than a criminal who violates international border laws.
Well said.
VOV Once again you beat me to the punch and said it better. This is another misinterpreted survey example of “What do you guys need?” “Well sir, good equipment and better training.” “Thank you for your input troop”.
Translation to Congress, “Well the troops are telling us that equipment and better training is most important, even more than pay we believe. So we recommend shinier hub caps on General Officer vehicles and less pay for the troops.”
Yea, and they are wondering why they are having retention problems. (Reference other thread this morning) Screwing with pay, benefits and broken promises in the pension system is working out well at keeping the recruiter’s offices at standing room only. /sarc/
Again, give it to welfare scum and illegal aliens until their pockets are bulging and take it from the ones charged with giving their lives in service to our nation and I do mean even, “giving their life” if called to do so. Yep that rates lower pay and benefits in my book. Then Congress and the whole Federal Government are not willing to take a dime less in anything! Why? Because the Congress has changed in the last decades to a point where less then 20% have served in the military. They don’t understand it, they don’t see the needs and really…they don’t give a damned. As long as they and their constituents get theirs.
The day will come when the makers will stand up and tell the takers to get fucked. Then the media will tell everybody how mean the makers are for not wanting to give up their “fair share” to support the takers who can’t be bothered to lift a finger to help themselves. Then either a conservative government will tell the takers “tough shit,” or more likely a liberal government will try to dictate by force against the makers. And then I fear shit will get real.
Six words:
Ayn Rand
Atlas Shrugged
‘Nuff said.
Yep, we will waste millions trying to find a new camouflage for the army, then delay and delay because we can’t get a good deal on what we are already using overseas. We will waste millions trying to find a new pistol and then decide meh it’s cheaper to stick with the M9. Then we will spend billions testing to find a new rifle for the troops after many issues from the field about the current rifle and then decide meh the current M4 is perfectly fine, it’s the troops’ fault for not maintaining them properly. I won’t even go into the billions spent trying to make the LCS work for the navy.
But our troops will take a cut if we give them good gear and better training. They must have had a backhoe working in congress that day to dig out all the BS after that little story from the admiral.
F-35, anyone?
@The Other Whitey, indeed! A friend of mine used to work for a defense contractor on some part of it back when it was called the Joint Strike Fighter.
Myth: “It’ll be one platform, shared by all the branches!”
Reality: Every branch has its own particular needs, so you need multiple variants, who’dathunkit?
Myth: “Because it’s shared, it’ll be simpler to maintain!”
Reality: Except for all the various parts that are totally different, they’re totally the same.
Myth: “It’ll be so much better and be able to replace so many other ‘platforms'”
Reality: It wasn’t better than the F-22 which they sacrificed for the F-35. It’s certainly not better than the A-10. I’m sure those of you who actually know stuff can rattle off more examples you can shake a stick at.
It would’ve been more believable at this point if they sold the F-35 as a literal magical unicorn that shoots rainbow lasers. At least that myth is more entertaining and less expensive.
E-1 pay in 1967: $97.00 per month.
Yes, I can see a LOT of people lining up for that. Sure I can.
I can also see the wee folk having a party on my front lawn. I’m going to go join them.
Why does the phrase “vote with their feet” come to mind about now?
Oh yeah – because with leadership talking this way, maybe that’s exactly what a load of folks may do just as soon as the economy perks up a bit.
Sadly, my daughter has done just that as has the young man who lives next door to me. Both have decided that a private sector employment situation will prove more appropriate to their futures.
Both are smart, hard working, and had jobs they really enjoyed in the military.
Yeah, because 100-hour workweeks, six-plus month deployments, and shitty living/working conditions weren’t enough to keep me in, noooooo…I want you to cut my pay and bonuses, too!
And they wonder why people think folks in the Pentagon have lost touch with reality.
Nah, this won’t screw up retention, no sirree!
Admirals tell congress what they want to hear just like junior sailors and marines do to this admiral. So glad I retired.
This is an example of the leadership going around, doing a “sensing session,” then hearing what they want to hear rather than what’s really being said.
We’re back to the ’90s, when they were doing similar things… trying to blow steam up Congress’ ass and not telling them the actual negative impact that their manpower related policies were having on the troops.
It got to the point that the JCS had to admit that service members were “abandoning ship” in mass.
This is an example of the leadership going around, doing a “sensing session,” then hearing what they want to hear rather than what’s really being said.
We’re back to the ’90s, when they were doing similar things… trying to blow steam up Congress’ ass and not telling them the actual negative impact that their manpower related policies were having on the troops.
It got to the point that the JCS had to admit that service members were “abandoning ship” in mass.
More cuts up our asses, how many of the entrenched DC bureaucracies are facing cuts, say the Dept.s of Education or Energy, the 0bamaphone handouts,…
OH, what was I thinking? Of course, we Vets are second class citizens to the shit-for-brains libs in DC and their kissass cohorts. The welfare flunkies and dropouts are “Victims of Society” and HAVE to be cared for!
/SARC
Proud…thank you and thank you. I am so fed up with the welfare system and mentality our own Government created, starting with Johnson’s “Great Society” and it has only gotten worse since. Great Society my ASS! It has become an upside down society where not working for a living and standing with both hands out has become the norm. These people are PROUD to stand and be given theirs. They have no accountability, no ambition, no care for our country. Nothing. Nothing except, “what are you giving me more of next and how soon do I get it!”. TURDS every one of them! LEECHES every one of them! The leading cause, I believe, in the demise of our Republic…THEM and the legislators whom they elect to give them more. Legislators who as well have no honor, dignity, love for our country or foresight to see what they are working hard to make worse!
Yes, it’s almost 50 years of that crap, and I see no improvements. I see nothing but increased taxes, inflated prices, and long lines of unemployed people who want to work but get the ‘thanks, we’ll call you’ response.
Arguably more than 50 years, Ex-PH2. Today’s SNAP program (formerly food stamps) was derived from a JFK-administration pilot program. The first food stamps were distributed in May 1961.
Time to implement the Starship Trooper society — nobody that isn’t a veteran should vote. It wouldn’t cure everything, but it sure would help.
Perhaps those in the Puzzle Palace remember what happened to Gen, Shineski when he told Congress the truth in 2003.
http://www.ausa.org/publications/armymagazine/archive/2014/Documents/april14/Maze_April2014.pdf
One of my best friends is married to an airman (E-4) who is stationed in North Dakota. They live on-post in family housing and have access to the commissary and PX…
She just had to take a full-time job off-post so they could cover their utility bills and food needs. Before that, they were on food stamps.
Granted, E-4s don’t make a whole lot, but with a dependent and living on-base, you’d think they’d have enough to actually make ends meet.
Utility bills? When did people in on-post quarters start getting charged for utilities? Sorry, I apparently missed that one.
Hondo… I presume Cable, phone, internet connectivity, etc. Also, if you exceed an average amout of KWH in electricity use in comparison to your neighbors, you get an electric bill from the folks at base housing. Same goes for water.
Been a long time since I’ve lived in on-post housing, so I wasn’t aware of the overage billing today. Thanks.
That said, I’m still having a problem with the “need a 2nd job to pay utilities”. Per DFAS pay tables, an E-4 w/2+ YOS today makes over $25k yearly (base pay is now $2101.80). Add to that another $4200+ in untaxed income (Sep Rats, at $357.55 per mo).
A married couple with no children had about $525 in Federal tax liability. Even including state taxes and FICA taxes, you’re talking a tax liability of $1200 or less annually.
That in turn means that you’re looking at monthly paycheck withholding for taxes of on the order of $100 per month or less – or a disposable income of well over $2000/month.
I really have a hard time in seeing how someone with $2350/month and no rent and only limited water/electricity/heating expenses has trouble in paying for a phone, the rest of their electricity/water/heating expenses, and food.
Besides: unlike electricity/heat/water, cable/cell-phone service/internet/and the like aren’t exactly utilities. You can live without them.
that on demand porn from the cable company gets pricey…
Been shopping lately?
I just had to buy some .25 inch flat and lock washers, a pair of nitrile machinist gloves and a gallon of acetone = $50+
I have noticed since around 2010, a steady increase in cost, or reduction in container size/count in many things.
I said it in another thread; get ready for a new draft, because once the troops realize they don’t like being shit on and lied to, they are going to walk and then the manpower problem will provoke a return to the draft. All because that incompetent, arrogant pile of monkey nuts, and his administration, don’t give a flying fuck about the troops, or Vets.
hell, yes, I wanted the best training I could get – hopeful;y the best training I could get would keep my ornery young butt alive a little longer. But “wanting” a pay cut to pay for it on top of everything else? Just who in the hell is drinking their bathwater here?
If the Puzzle Palace wants to rein in on spending, it should look at how much it charges itself.
I was once told by accounting and finance some of the reasons my unit cost Sammy so much money was to cover things like the cost of the building and the house-keeping contract. When I told them we did our own house-keeping and the building was over 50 years old and should have been paid off long ago, I was ignored.
Another great waste was the attendance report I had to fill out everyday, it had to be letter perfect down to 15 minute intervals for about 100 people for at least 8 hours per day. A GS-13 audited the reports and once they were perfect, I stored them for one year. After one year, the records were sent to Wing Headquarters to be stored for an additional year. When the second year was over, the records were sent to the base heating plant to be burned in the furnace. When I suggested we lighten up on the reporting requirements, I was told to stop causing problems.
A squadron I was assigned to had about 10 GI’s and civilians working in the control and analysis section, another AFB with a comparable sized fleet had a civilian contractor instead of a squadron; the contractor had two people in control and analysis section. When I pointed this out to the General, I was told it was not his problem and to shut the hell up.
The point is, the Government needs to look at how much it spends on things already paid for, paperwork for paperwork’s sake, and made up phony-baloney positions that suck up tax payer dollars like a hoover on steroids.
DENNIS:
DENNIS:
DENNIS: Concerning reports – I was in the field for much of my career (away from HDQTRS) which was just the way I liked it. After sending in certain reports for about 6 months, I started skipping some here and there waiting for someone to yell. When no one did, I started skipping some more. Soon I had cut my reporting time in approx 1/2 the time. I often wonder if anyone every noticed. When I did have to work at a HDQTRS, I took into account the reporting requirements that my staff was demanding and cut out the chicken shit. Perhaps a GS 10 got another day off. By the way I was a very junior E-7 at the time. BZ