A short range view of History

| March 1, 2014

Gulf war

In today’s Washington Post appears Andrew J. Bacevich a history professor, a retired Army colonel and a Gold Star father who vocally opposed the Iraq War and George W. Bush. He has decided that the US doesn’t need a large Army. That an Army smaller than the one we had before Pearl harbor would be just fine. In fact, we don’t need many tanks, either. Of course, I’m guessing that the good professor wrote this before recent events in the Crimea which sort of exposed to the world that which realists have suspected all along – that the new Russia has the colonial ambitions of the old Soviet Russia.

This isn’t 1940. Moreover, as an instrument of coercion, that smaller army would be more lethal than the much larger one that helped defeat Nazi Germany and imperial Japan. Given a choice between a few hundred of today’s Abrams tanks and a few thousand vintage Shermans, Gen. George Patton would not hesitate to choose the former.

Nice try, Colonel Bacevich, but we’re talking about an Army that won’t be facing 1944’s Tiger tanks, but Russian T-90s or some variant. Let’s try to avoid hyperbole, shall we?

Yet to judge by outcomes, the Army is not a force for decisive action. It cannot be counted on to achieve definitive results in a timely manner. In Afghanistan and Iraq, actions that momentarily appeared to be decisive served as preludes to protracted and inconclusive wars. As for preventing, shaping and winning, this surely qualifies as bluster — the equivalent of a newspaper promising advertisers that it will quadruple its print circulation.

Weak sauce. There was almost a decisive action with US armor in the first Gulf War, the first war with Iraq, until the history professors and politicians stuck their nose in and didn’t let us finish off Saddam Hussein. Then in the second war in Iraq, there was a decisive victory using US armor when Saddam’s statues fell. But, what the history professor should have learned from that war is that the enemy will attack you where he finds your weaknesses and so an army must be prepared in all aspects of warfare.

Defense per se figured as an afterthought, eclipsed by the conviction that projecting power held the key to transforming the world from what it is into what Washington would like it to be: orderly, predictable, respectful of American values and deferential to U.S. prerogatives.

The “Global War on Terror” put that proposition to the test, with disappointing results. Putting boots on the ground produced casualties and complications, but little by way of peace and harmony.

So, the good colonel professor figures that we’re unprepared at fighting armored warfare, our enemies will oblige us and fight us only in manner in which we’re prepared. Instead of looking at the long term history of warfare, he’d prefer to look at the last war exclusively – because that war, standing alone in history, supports his vision for a depleted military force. So we can have more Gold Star fathers.

A real student of history would look at the First Battle of Bull Run, Kasserine Pass and Task Force Smith, but Colonel Bacevich has a political point to enforce. Weak sauce, Colonel.

Thanks to Chock Block for the link.

Category: Military issues

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OldSargeUSAR

Little Chuckie Hagel has got to be a student of this jackass colonel professor lefty.

Couple of bedwetters

Eagle Keeper

“Lefty”? “Bedwetter”? You’re able to conclude all that on the basis of one critical post?

How about West Pointer? Vietnam combat vet? 23-year retired Colonel?

And oh yeah, Gold Star Dad?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052502032.html

People are waaaaaay more complex than just being “lefties” (when they say something you disagree with) or “righties” (when they agree with you).

Rather than glibly tossing around pejoratives about a man you know nothing about, you might consider reading just how it was that, after 23 years in the Army officer corps, he started to become disenchanted with the military industrial complex.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-washington-rules/

But I bet you don’t.

MAJMike

He can have all the merit badges Big Army can produce, and still be wrong.

Eagle Keeper

Of course. But OldSarge substituted immature, meaningless namecalling for substantive rebuttal. I was responding to his “Bedwetter” and “lefty” Bravo Sierra.

UpNorth

“And oh yeah, Gold Star Dad?” Your point? Cindy Sheehag is a Gold Star Mom.

MustangCryppie

I’ve been reading some of the shit that Hagel has been spouting. Stuff like our technological advantage balances out our reduced forces. I hope Hagel or someone on his staff reads this blog. Hagel, you have to be one of the dumbest motherfuckers I have ever had the “pleassure” of knowing about. It’s obvious that Obama chose you cause you’ll just say “yessir, yessir, three bags full” and destroy the finest military this country has ever know. Your legacy is going to show you as the piece of crap SECDEF that you are. You’re ruining our defense and you making our military’s families suffer for no more reason that you’re a dumbass.

NHSparky

“Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the United States was too strong.” -Ronaldus Maximus

Farflung Wanderer

I’m assuming you mean Reagan (why the Roman name?).

Yeah, small army is a no-no. Cut welfare and taxes, that’s how you save a cent.

I talked to a Libertarian friend of mine over Ukraine. He believes that the United States should stop being a world cop. To some extent, he is right, but on the other hand, he is dead wrong. America is a nation that the world looks at and sees the potential to change the Earth for the better. To run the other way just destabilizes our world, *and* makes us weaker.

I don’t understand why a lover of Reagan (my friend) would be so willing to see the man’s work in vain because “what does it have to do with America?”

Grimmy

IIrc, we have a treaty that involves Russia, The Ukraine and ourselves.

Had something to do with the collapse and break up of the old Soviet Union, the USSR nukes in what became break-away republics of one sort or another, and the Russians keeping possession of said nukes.

The treaty also guaranteed the independent sovereignty of said new nations.

Now, we’ve spent the last 3/4 or so of a century proving that, as a nation and a people, we can not, will not fight wars to actually win them. Nope. No way, no how.

How do you think it’s gonna turn out when we also prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we will not stand up to our treaty obligations?

If this country of ours was an actual person, I’d say it was heading for a long string of asswhupings.

Old Trooper

Yep, we do have an agreement with Ukraine. I put it in another post, but that post seems to have disappeared.

From the Daily Mail on Friday:

A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if Putin’s troops intervene.

The Budapest Memorandum was signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine – as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union

Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.

Sir Tony Brenton, who served as British Ambassador from 2004 to 2008, said that war could be an option ‘if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding.’

It promises to protect Ukraine’s borders, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

Today Kiev has demanded the agreement is activated after insisting their borders had been violated.

2/17 Air Cav

OT. The Budapest Memorandum is as clear as mud and for good reason: Ukraine’s ridding itself of nukes by transferring them to the former USSR for disposal, under the memo, does not necessarily bind any signatory to come to Ukraine’s defense in a conventional conflict. We wanted fewer nukes. The Russians wanted Ukraine to have no nukes. And Sam and Ivan got what each wanted. As a practical and a legal issue, there is nothing the US can (or in my view, should) do in a beef bewteen two of the signatories to the memo.

Devtun

Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) told Time’s Mark Thompson recently that a member of the JCS (Odierno?) is close to submitting his resignation in protest to the sharp budget cuts…stay tuned.

Mr. Blue

(sigh) Here we go again.
So what will be the big thing that kills our troops in the next war?
Obscelecent, worn out equiptment? Lack of weapons due to production delays as factories gear up? Incompetent leadership more interested in spit & polish than actual fighting suddenly thrown unprepared into combat? Green, hastily trained recruits lead by same?

The Other Whitey

Bull Run (round 1): Small prewar army augmented by massive rushed recruitment of Regular, Reserve, and National Guard (or what would later become the Guard) forces when hostilities appeared imminent. These forces are committed immediately, some of them with no training at all.
Result: Disaster, heavy casualties, beginning of a long and terrible war.

Kasserine Pass: Small prewar army augmented by massive rushed recruitment of Regular, Reserve, and National Guard forces when hostilities appeared imminent. Green-as-grass GIs are attacked by elite Afrika Korps veterans with superior equipment.
Result: Disaster, heavy casualties, major setback in an important campaign, prolonging a long and terrible war.

Task Force Smith…you get the idea.

The money you think you’ll save in peacetime comes with a bitch of an interest rate in blood when you go to war.

Eagle Keeper

Actually, I happen to think we need a LARGER Army. Like every able-bodied male age 20 and up.

But only coupled with a firm commitment to actually defend the United States rather than to scatter them across the globe, intervening in every other foreign crisis in the name of “vital national interests.” (The Unkraine? And that’s a threat to America HOW?)

The Swiss call it Armed Neutrality. We really ought to adopt it. Gens. George Patton IV (USA) and Lewis Walt (USMC) sure gave it a favorable write-up:

http://www.constitution.org/mil/swiss_rpt.pdf

And Smedley Butler had an interesting idea re. genuine national defense:

http://justwarriors.blogspot.com/2009/11/smedley-butler-amendment-for-peace.html

MAJMike

Okay.

Old Trooper

It doesn’t matter if our vital national interests are involved this time. We signed an agreement in 1994 which says we will assist Ukraine. If we want to take your belief to the natural conclusion, we will remove ourselves from NATO and the UN, as well as any other treaty we have, and look at how well isolationism has worked for us in the past. Think about it, before advocating for isolationism again.

You bring up the Swiss; what about Sweden? What does the Swiss and Sweden bring to the world, besides good chocolate and decent Vodka?

Hondo

Nations often ignore past agreements when it’s no longer in their interest to observe them, Old Trooper. Lord Palmerston put it best. “Nations do not have permanent allies. Nations have permanent interests.”

It’s questionable whether that 1994 agreement made by the Clinton administration was ever truly in the US national interest. That administration was naive when it came to foreign policy also. It was a huge fan of getting the US involved in situations that didn’t matter to the US a bit in order to “help people”. See Balkans, US Involvement.

Frankly, the Ukraine IMO is not important enough to the US to go to war over – much less Crimea (which, historically, Russia has a much stronger claim to than does the Ukraine). To paraphrase Bismark: “All of the Crimea is not worth the bones of a single US soldier.”

Realpolitik may not be moral, but it’s the way successful nations do business. I really wish this administration would learn that simple fact.

Old Trooper

Yeah, therein lies the problem; trust. If our allies see they can’t trust us to keep our word, then everything we agree to or treaty we sign isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. Why should anyone honor any agreement, then? We can just ignore our treaty obligations to NATO and to anyone we want to, then, and others can ignore us. In essence, we then have global anarchy. Which is something that no one wants.

MAJMike

You forgot the coo-coo clock.

Ex-PH2

Aren’t you guys forgetting that the US bases in Kyrgyzstan are closing?

And are you aware that Russia has its own bases there at Bishkek, with a lease that has been renewed to 2032, whereas our lease was not renewed by the Kyrgyz government?

The closest one we have now will be in Romania. If you think Vlad hasn’t been watching this stuff going on, and doesn’t have a list in his jacket pocket, you’re not paying attention.

Hondo

Ex-PH2: and with the war in Afghanistan winding down, why precisely do we need bases in Kyrgyzstan?

Ex-PH2

There are still people over there, Hondo. I know some of them. Or have you forgotten that part, that they are still there?

2/17 Air Cav

I have not read Bacevitch and I reject isolated snippets of commentary elicited from him by talk-show geniuses. He is no Johnny-come lately to foreign policy and earned his stripes, as it were. He did not get on a soapbox after losuing his onlt son in 2007, a 1st LT with the 1st Cav, and put up when it counted through service of his own. I don’t know the man but if anyone is qualified to voice an opinion, he is. We are free to disagree with it–but not to attack him personally. EagleKeeper said it best.

Eagle Keeper

Thanks.

“I reject isolated snippets of commentary elicited from him by talk-show geniuses”

Then I think you’ll definitely appreciate this:

http://www.c-span.org/video/?314580-1/q-andrew-bacevich

One hour of thoughtful conversation, including some insight into what makes Col. Bacevich tick.

Sparks

One question. If they have a big clearance sale on M1 Abrams, you think I could snag one sorta reasonable like? Just always been a dream since I didn’t get that “Tiger Joe” tank for Christmas, when I was in the third grade. I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure me and my Tiger Joe could have taken an M1 Abrams any day. At least in my still young imaginations.

Just An Old Dog

Ignorance at it’s finest. What the hell happens when Officers pick up 0-5 and get a tour in a service accademy? Or get a tour in a political post? Do they suddenly forget History, or for that matter science or math?
Russia is still a threat, and China cant be ignored either. We arent going to be garunteed to go against lightweights like Panama and Grenada.
Only a person looking to suck his way into a post with the current administration would even put that idiotic shit out there.

headhuntersix

I’d like to know for what type of war our new smaller, agile Army is going to train. Are we going to do light rotations to JRTC one year and heavy at NTC the next. Are we even going to maintain the OPFOR at NTC? Does Hagel get how labor intensive training for either style of combat is for the armor force. Or how hard it is to maintain those skills, especially mounted warfare is. You don’t raise BN level staffs to do both…there isn’t time. All our major potential enemies still maintain a robust armor force. Whether we’re using drone tanks or kids in M1A2’s…you still have to practice those skills. We’re screwed.

Eagle Keeper

“All our major potential enemies still maintain a robust armor force.”

1. And they would land them on our shores how?

2. We could still use armor … but as an actual defense against the actual United States, not against a superpower half a world away with colonial ambitions, or some tinpot Middle Eastern dictator going to war with his neighbor over disputed territory or oil drilling methods.

It’s LONG past time for us to quit pretending that everything that happens everywhere in the world poses a security threat to “US interests.” That mindset is killing us globally and destroying our liberty here at home. We must focus instead on defending the United States. With an ocean on two sides and friends on the other two, we should have little problem defending the US with a genuine militia-based force comprised of every 20-50 year old man in America.